Linux Pro Magazine article on Puppy Linux

[bbyfield]

Hi:

I'd like to do an article on Puppy Linux in the next issue of Linux Pro Magazine. Is there a steward who is willing to coordinate the answers if I send them via email. It might be a good idea to divide the questions up to lighten the burden of answering.

Thanks!

[williwaw]

would you consider posting the questions and letting different volunteers provide answers?

[mikewalsh]

@williwaw :-

The way I read it, I think the OP wants to send all questions together in a single e-mail, then leave it to the staff to organise posting everything, getting answers together, then sending everything back to the OP in another e-mail.

I could be wrong, but I believe that's what is wanted. In other words, if the community would like the "exposure", it's up to us to put the effort in.....

(If I don't miss my guess, I believe this is the guy:- Bruce Byfield )

Mike.

[bigpup]

PM me some questions and I will see if I can help you.

If you want to give a general information about Puppy Linux.

Some good info is in the Puppy Linux official web site FAQ.
https://puppylinux-woof-ce.github.io/faq.html

If you want to get into specific operation of Puppy Linux.

You will need to pick a specific version and give a review of it.

In general operation, all Puppy versions are the same.
But each one has specific features, programs, or ways of doing stuff.
The Puppy version developer, has ability to do things, the way they want to do them.

One thing you cannot do, when talking about Puppy Linux.
It is a Linux Operating system, but it does not completely function the same, as what you would call main stream Linux OS's.
Some stuff it does the Puppy way.

[bigpup]

Maybe, the first thing this person needs to learn, about Puppy Linux.

We users, use this forum, to work together, in supporting Puppy Linux.
Keeping it as open as possible, by using topics, in this forum, to do things.
No one of us has all the answers, but together we usually do.
I am sure, what this person wants, will be better information, if we all can comment on whatever their questions may be.

That is one of the differences with Puppy Linux.

[mikewalsh]

@bigpup :-

You can't answer this one with your 'standard' answers.

See the link added to my post above. This is a well-known tech journalist; he's not necessarily going to take several days out of his schedule just to learn about Puppy...

Much as I know you'd like to, you can't bore the guy by going OTT with every little Puppy-specific detail, either. We need members who are knowledgeable about all aspects of Puppy Linux, but don't have vested interests in any one specific Puppy/Puplet/re-master.

Mike.

[bigpup]

This is a well-known tech journalist; he's not necessarily going to take several days out of his schedule just to learn about Puppy...

Than the article is not going to be any good for Puppy Linux

Every review of Puppy Linux, I have ever read, just never fully understands Puppy Linux.
Everyone of them, gives false information, or shows a total lack of understanding, on how Puppy works.
They keep trying to compare it to, how they know, main stream Linux operates.

I am sure, this person knows how to copy and past text, from a topic post.

[mikewalsh]

@bigpup :-

Nah, you can't pooh-pooh the idea before it even gets off the ground.....although I agree there IS some Puppy-specific stuff that needs clarification. All publicity can only help the community in the long run. Who would be the best person to actually co-ordinate getting answers together?

Myself, I would say rockedge.....but Erik may not want yet another task thrust upon him!

What do you think?

-------------------------

@bbyfield :-

Bear with us please, Bruce. There's always a ton of differing opinions when anything like this rears its head...

Mike.

[Chelsea80]

Hi all,

I feel we are jumping the gun here in trying to decide what we should be giving over to @bbyfield.

Why don't we wait and see what questions @bbyfield wants to ask as to what direction he intends to take in more detail with his article.

Is it it going to be a general overview of a (Non) Linux OS?

Or, good points v bad points comparison of using Puppy.

The benefit(s) of a very small distro.

Working as root.

A single user OS.

I feel that until we know from what angle @bbyfield is coming from then we would have a better understanding of his interest.

Perhaps it would be more practical for @bbyfield to download a 'mainstream' Puppy ISO and use it to get a hands-on feel.

Best regards

Chelsea80

[rockedge]

@bbyfield Sounds like a plan. Send me via email (which I will next send to you via private message) the list of questions.

I think I can help get these queries in the right hands and get the answers you seek. All the minus all the plus.

[stevie pup]

I feel we are jumping the gun here in trying to decide

You beat me to it, that's exactly what I was going to say. Why don't we wait until we've seen the questions before we all get over excited?

[Chelsea80]

@ rockedge

Excuse me for being presumptuous but your reply to @bbyfield seems to imply that your suggestion of “I think I can help get these queries in the right hands and get the answers you seek.” will include only a small number of forum members to view and answer the questions asked.

It would an advantage to all members if, at least, they could have sight of the questions. A total involvement by all members at this stage would surely be of interest to us all.

It may be possible somehow, after receiving the questions, to point to a holding location where the questions can be viewed by all members. Then at least we can see what @bbyfield is interested in for his article.

Best regards

Chelsea80

[rockedge]

@Chelsea80 No worries. That is my official, like I'm having a meeting with Hollywood producers language. Where instead of saying "Are you f$#&ing insane? No we are not doing that", we can say "It might be possible but it will be expensive"

I will of course post those questions for everyone to see and participation in answering them is encouraged.

Basic meaning = I can help get some of the people not seen around the forum that much these days that can help to answer the heavy technical design questions.

[mikewalsh]

@Chelsea80 :-

Mm. Sounds like a plan. I think this guy probably has a preset list of more or less 'standard' questions he uses for reviewing various distros, which he'll email all in one lump.

It would help to be able to view this email, so we can all help to make this upcoming article as accurate as possible. Yah. Good idea.

At the same time, we don't want Master Byfield getting overwhelmed with the community enthusiasm! This has happened too often in the past.....posters getting "descended-upon" en masse as everybody decides to put their two-penn'orth in all of a sudden. Of course, if everybody gets input on this, the community as a whole will be that much more critical at publication time....

@rockedge :-

Mike.

[Chelsea80]

@ rockedge

Thank you. I agree that is a good way forward.

@ mikewalsh

Yes, ‘bog standard’ questions are used as a template from his perspective.

Although I am pleased that an ‘outsider’ has deemed to take enough interest in our Puppy world to kick start this project.

It will be very interesting to view the questions from his perception of Puppy.

Also it will be very interesting to view the answers given from our perception of Puppy.

So, let the inquisition begin.

Best regards

Chelsea80

[williwaw]

I feel we are jumping the gun here in trying to decide

You beat me to it, that's exactly what I was going to say. Why don't we wait until we've seen the questions before we all get over excited?

It will be very interesting to view the questions from his perception of Puppy.

Also it will be very interesting to view the answers given from our perception of Puppy.

I agree. If bbyfield has an opportunity to ask a few questions along the way in a forum discussion setting, there might be responses useful for Puppy's future direction.

[rockedge]

there might be responses useful for Puppy's future direction.

Excellent point. Let's see what it turns out to be and perhaps we can exchange information

[mikeslr]

My two cents: I'm glad rockedge has found the time to co-ordinate. If anyone has an accurate overview of Puppy --in all its variations-- the role of the Forum, and who knows what about technical aspects, it's rockedge.
But I'm not so sure that the questions he receives from bbyfield should be open to general discussion. Magazines have publication deadlines, even Linux Pro Magazine. We, on the other hand, can spend months on discussing the pros-and-cons of anything and not reach even a consensus. I would trust rockedge to delegate the answering of any question to whoever he chooses and is willing.

bbyfield, if you are reading this, any article about 'Puppy Linux' must make the following clear: Puppy Linux is not A distro, but a family of distros. Anyone is free to create and publish his or her own version. That family currently includes some 'tried and true, providing satisfactory performance for daily use' and some which are 'cutting edge employing the latest technology that Linux offers'. Puppy Linux Discussion Forum is a vehicle which supports not only that family but any version of Linux which is not compelled by design to have exclusive ownership of a hard-drive partition. It also supports techniques to make portable Linux distros which were not. The Forum is a location where anyone, from experienced developer to newby-Windows-immigrant can seek advice or offer it about anything pertaining to 'Puppy Linux'.
Once that is clear, the article can concentrate on one or two versions (near the hump of the 'Bell Curve') which are here referred to as "Mainstream". Alternatively, it could high-light any of the following: BarryK's EasyOS which employs containers to provide perhaps the most secure Linux distro currently available; wiak's development of weedogit to portablize potentially any Linux distro; fredx181 and rcrsn51's continuing development of portable debian operating systems or dimkr's efforts in Vanilla-dpup to provide a Puppy employing apt and synaptic and thus having many of the advantages of debian while retaining Puppys 'low RAM usage' goal.

[rockedge]

Don't forget VoidPup64 and VoidPup32 based on Void Linux and using the XBPS package manager from @peebee

These are very powerful Puppy Linux distro's.

Plus woof-CE and it's role will have to be mentioned

[Chelsea80]

@ rockedge

Most reviewers work about a month in advance to the publication date.

This allows time for the core body of text to be drawn up after initial research has been done.

During this time they have the space for deeper research, interviews, photo inclusion etc.

Nearer publication date they will update information, proof read and tweak if required.

This is not always the case of course and there are those that leave the ‘copy’ until the 11th hour.

Mistakes then creep in as ‘creative writing’ is used and the output is much distorted from the fact.

Perhaps you could ask @bbyfield when his deadline is.

This, in turn, would give you a deadline as to when you declare "times up for members input".

Best regards

Chelsea80

[mikeslr]

@ rockedge, just thinking off the top of my head. I didn't intentionally leave Voidpup out.
@ Chelsea80, Seems like the logical step forward.

Among 'deal makers' attorney are known as 'deal killers' and I spent 30 years as an attorney. They're known as 'deal killers' because their source of information is case law, and cases only exist when something went wrong. But I grew up with businessmen and worked with them for years before going to law school. So my approach was 'now that we know what can go wrong, how to we reach an acceptable agreement which avoids that?'

[cobaka]

@rockedge, @williwaw @mikeslr @mikewalsh

I can write 500 words (or so) giving a user's point of view of Puppy Linux.
I don't have a technical knowledge of Puppy Linux, but I have installed this OS on a number of laptops, desk-top boxes and watched others use it. Some installations were breeze; others took some effort to complete. I've heard friends comment about using it. I think I can give a balanced view of 'the Puppy' in concise English.

собака

[puppy_apprentice]

In 2019 Nate Drake described Puppy in his Puppy Love article:
https://www.linux-magazine.com/Issues/2 ... %29/eng-US

I've read this in Polish version of LM:

Pokochać szczeniaka: Poznajemy najnowszą wersję Puppy Linuksa nazwaną BionicPup

Love your puppy: We meet the latest version of Puppy Linux called BionicPup

I thing that new article will be similar (if will be written and published).

Setup offers two installation methods. The first, Frugal, will install a bare minimum of apps to get you started. The Full installation is self-explanatory.

Frugal vs. Full, aaarrgghh
Definitely we have change the name: Frugal -> Portable, Flexible, Typical or whatever more informative.
Or like in slogan:

free as freedom, not gratis/free beer

Frugal as portable/flexible not bare minimum

[mikewalsh]

@puppy_apprentice :-

Setup offers two installation methods. The first, Frugal, will install a bare minimum of apps to get you started. The Full installation is self-explanatory.

Frugal vs. Full, aaarrgghh
Definitely we have change the name: Frugal -> Portable, Flexible, Typical or whatever more informative.
Or like in slogan:

free as freedom, not gratis/free beer

Frugal as portable/flexible not bare minimum

Yup, you are SO right. This is the one point about any Puppy installation that writers/authors of Linux articles consistently get wrong. And I honestly believe it's self-inflicted; your average Joe, when presented with the terms "full" and "frugal", automatically assumes "full" is better than "frugal" in every way.

It doesn't make sense that Puppy, out of all the Linux distros available, uses these terms in a reverse manner to what anyone would expect them to mean. We really MUST change these from, say, "Frugal" to "Standard", and from "Full" to something like "Legacy" (indicating it's NOT the normally-recommended way of doing an install, but is for specific use-cases only).

WE know what the original terms refer to. But you cannot expect newbies to be mind-readers.....and the existing documentation makes no clarification of this point AT ALL.

It's no wonder that journalists get it wrong, because there's nothing available to correct them.

Mike.

[mikeslr]

puppy_apprentice

Any publication, however skimpy or inaccurate it might otherwise be, would be good if it only served to help dispel the 'Full vs. Frugal' misconception. That is so frequently encountered that it has become 'background noise' and would likely be overlooked in a techno-centric article.

And I still don't know why current and future Puppies continue to use those terms. It's not a programming issue. It's a mere change in the words displayed. What terms are used in the programs aren't immediately available to newbies.

[rockedge]

I am thinking about writing an SQL query that will scan the entire forum database and replace "frugal" with "Standard". Although some more thought has to go into this move

[amethyst]

I would make one sticky post for the various install scenarios in the Getting Started and How TO sections. Could be the same post in both sections. Still think there are too many different posts with regards to install, could be confusing for a newby.

[stevie pup]

When I first tried Puppy my only previous Linux experience was with Linux Mint, and that had only been for a couple of months. I wasn't sure what "frugal" meant, so I did a search and looked it up. I didn't just jump to conclusions and assume what it meant. There were a couple of other bits of Puppy terminology that I didn't understand, so I looked those up as well.

Am I the odd one out?

[cobaka]

@rockedge
I'm pretty much a beginner here (with Puppy) and the command line.

I don't know anything about SQL but mr. grep may a useful fellow for finding 'frugal' and 'full'.
So ... I wasn't going to suggest code but then: others may be interested in the simplicity of the command.

Code: Select all

#grep -iwrC4  --color  'frugal'  ./your_directory

will display occurrences of the word. In color. Showing 4 lines context. Ignoring u/c and lower/case. Checking sub-directories (etc).
There are other 'interesting' ways to use grep than this example; I know you can quickly think of a dozen.

These might identify 'frugal' near 'installation' etc. But my intent here is to suggest that the CLI is very powerful for dealing with a lot of files in a directory.

After that, SED can be useful way to exchange strings; again from the CLI/bash.
As I wrote before, I'm a beginner, so saying this is rather like telling granny how to knit a sweater.
собака

[wiak]

I am thinking about writing an SQL query that will scan the entire forum database and replace "frugal" with "Standard". Although some more thought has to go into this move

I'm not convinced it is 'Standard' - full might be standard if that is what you consider 'normal' distro install method. Technically, to me, I'd simply say it was a filesystem 'Layered' installation (no matter the union type filesystem employed). Or 'multi-layered filesystem installation' - that's the main difference afterall, which provides the flexibility - much like multi-layered graphic images compared with single layer graphic image.