(Hardware) Suggestions for video editing on a budget?

[vtpup]

Thanks to puppy I have been getting fantastic use out of computers that are really long in the tooth. I haven't bought a "new" computer in 8 years.

BUT, I'm finding video editing is stressing my old laptop running Tahrpup to the unreliable point.

I also have an old ATX form factor Pent4 desktop computer that I haven't used in years. I'm thinking about either getting another laptop, or upgrading the desktop motherboard. I do have a somewhat newer gamer graphics card for the desktop (NIB, uninstalled) PCI Express 2.0 MSI. N460GTX. I don't know if that's much help.

I'd rather do everything on the laptop, but cost is a big factor.

My present laptop is an Acer Aspire 5349: 2x Intel Celeron 1.60gHz Sandybrdige mobile chipset. 2 Gigs memory.

Does everything I need In puppy, (and has for years) except now in video editing. Most modern video programs crash except for Avidimux 2.4, and Openshot 1.4.3. I can't use newer versions of those, or any other editor (and I've tried a lot). With those two versions, editing VGA video with lots of clips works well up to about 10 minutes in length. Higher resolutions and too many clips start to cause monitor playback stutter, timing issues, very long rendering times, and crashes. Openshot is what I would prefer for complex videos, and Avidemux is fine for simple stuff. I don't actually need other editors -- or necessarily higher horsepower editors. But I'm at the limit of my hardware, I think.

So, any hardware suggestions for budget video editing of say 15 to 20 minute HD 720 resolution videos (in Puppy) ? I don't need 4K resolution, etc, or the latest and greatest feature-filled editors. I mean, okay if they work on a budget machine, but I can live with less.

Thanks guys!

[bigpup]

Here are the minimum system requirements for Openshot:

64-bit Operating System (Linux, OS X, Windows 7/8/10)
Multi-core processor with 64-bit support.
4GB of RAM (16GB recommended)
500 MB of hard-disk space for installation.
Optional: Solid-state drive (SSD), if utilizing disk-caching (and an additional 10GB of hard-disk space)

your issues could be not having enough RAM.

[taersh]

KdenLive 0.9.6 works fine in Puppy Tahr 6.0.2.
I've used it for lots of the Videos on my YouTube channel.

There's my SFS version of it to download from my Google Drive.
Also there's a Plugin SFS for 0.9.6 to download.

Link:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

[bigpup]

Most modern video programs crash except for Avidimux 2.4, and Openshot 1.4.3. I can't use newer versions of those, or any other editor (and I've tried a lot).

Maybe see how they run in a newer version of Puppy.
Xenialpup64 7.5
Bionicpup64 8.0

They may just need newer versions of the core Linux support stuff.

[vtpup]

Thanks Taersh and Bigpup. Sorry to say I've tried all those options with this computer back in March, and no go. I should have mentioned using Bionic64 and Xenialpup 64 with more "advanced" video editors.

I truly believe it's not the OS, or the editor versions, but the hardware, Bigpup, I agree that needing >2GB is one of the major problems. I don't know if needing a 4 core proc (or better) also is a factor.

Anyway, if we focus on upgrading to say a used laptop of say 4 cores and 4gb memory, I guess my question is which of these works with Puppy? Anyone out there with a personal recommendation?

I've been very happy with my Acer Aspire laptop, so maybe something in that line?

Or if someone else does somewhat complex video editing with their not-so-new laptop using Puppy -- what are you using?

Thanks again, in advance....

[vtpup]

Hmmmm. I didn't realize that I could increase the memory of this laptop beyond my 2GB. but, actually, I can, up to 8 gb. That might be the cheapest and easiest option

However, as I understand it, increasing past 4 gb requires I drop Tahrpup (32bit) -- or does this just mean that I can still run Tahrpup for most things, it just doesn't recognize more memory, and use Bionic64 for video applications?

Thanks!

[taersh]

Made my videos in Tahr Puppy using KdenLive on a 4GB machine. It's not that that fast on rendering long videos with lots of effects and stuff, though preview etc. worked basically.

On the same machine using BionicPup64 video editing is not possible. Even moving the mouse doesn't work properly then. Updating to 4GB and keep Tahr Puppy is what I would recommend until there's budget for better machine.

[bigpup]

Tahrpup(32bit) 6.0.5 nopae can only see up to 4GB of memory.
The Tahrpup(32bit) 6.0.5 PAE one can see and use more that 4 GB of memory.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... .5_PAE.iso

Any 64 bit Puppy version can see and use more than 4 GB of memory.

Which version of Tahrpup 6.0.5 you got? nopae or pae?

[bigpup]

For a newer laptop.

Get the newest Intel CPU as possible.
4 core CPU could do nothing but help.

Puppy is going to use the CPU internal Intel graphics, so the newer the better.
Do not get laptop with added ATI or Nvidia graphics.
Puppy can not use them in a laptop, because it does not have support stuff to do the auto switching from Intel to ATI or Nvidia hardware.

you know 4GB or larger in memory.

Internal type storage drive is not that important. Any will work OK.
However, a internal SSD drive is very fast, very fast!

[vtpup]

Thanks Taersh and Bigpup, that was all very helpful!

Realizing I could upgrade the memory got me searching "upgrades" and I found this:
https://community.acer.com/en/discussio ... spire-5349

So, I also started looking into upgrading the CPU on my Acer 5349-2635 laptop. It looks like an Intel-Core i5 Mobile I5-2540M - 4 Threads @2.5GHzis is a bios-compatible drop-in replacement for my current Celeron B815 - 2 threads@1.6 Ghz with a lot higher specs. I checked on Ebay and $19 for a good tested guaranteed one, so I sent for it. And online for 4 gig stick of new memory ($24). If that all works out I can send for another 4 gigs.

I used an online comparator, and entered the two CPUs to get a performance comparison report:

http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/896/In ... _B815.html

This reminds me of my first Puppy computer, a Thinkpad 600E, that I eventually upgraded internally with later CPU and extra memory. I had to do some jumpering, soldering and hex bios mods to make that work (there were instructions online). That was very gratifying, and the Thinkpad computer is still in use as a driver for my CNC mill using LinuxCNC at 22 years of age.

This new upgrade on the Acer should just be a matter of replacing the CPU and memory. No soldering or hex bios mods.

If this works, it's a lot more appealing solution for me than buying a new computer.

[bigpup]

Well, I was going to give advice on how to make sure you picked the correct memory type and totally understand how to remove and replace a CPU.
But by your last few statements.
You may know more about it than I do!
Good luck and let us know how it worked.

[mikewalsh]

@vtpup :-

You'll find the newer, Qt5-based 2-series Openshots are designed to offload the rendering grunt-work to a discrete graphics card, if installed.

Since I've had this much newer HP Pavilion desktop, with a Pentium 'Gold' G5400 @ 3.7 GHz - "quad-core" is via two cores with H/T - 16 GB DDR4, and a discrete NVidia graphics card, along with running newer 64-bit Puppies (current Openshot is now 64-bit only, as with so much other stuff!), video-rendering has, for me, improved out of all recognition.

If you're sticking with 32-bit, then 1.4.3 will be your limit, since this was the last of the 1-series to be built for 32-bit.

Let us know how you get on with your "upgrades", please.


Mike.

[vtpup]

Well Bigpup, it remains to be seen whether I ordered the exactly correct stuff and whether it will work in the laptop. I know the RAM is right for the present processor, but ordered it before thinking about the CPU. So it may be that I could have ordered faster RAM. But in any case, haven't spent much on the experiment so far -- a lot less than even a used computer with higher specs. So we'll see how much improvement there is. If the proc works, that alone would probably more than double the speed. And if I was short on RAM, and longer videos were using swap before (a distinct possibility), that would explain a lot! And the improvement would be great there, as well. With these two changes this may become a workable system for my needs.

Hi MikeWalsh, thanks for reporting what you use and the difference it makes. Sounds great! If the above laptop changes don't work for me, I can still upgrade the desktop with a new motherboard. For me the big problem there is just how much of what is already in the box can be salvaged? Power supply? RAM (probably not), Single box fan? Video card (N460GTX - PCI Express 2.0)? If I have to pay for all new support components it gets expensive.

re. the Puppy OS on the upgraded Acer laptop, I will definitely be aiming to run Bionic64 or another 64 bit Puppy for video work and possibly a newer editor. However if I get the same reliability issues, I will be satisfied with dropping back to Tahrpup 32 PAE and my old video software, which works -- as long as it's more stable and faster than it was before the computer mods. If not, back to considering a newer laptop, or upgrading the desktop.

I still want to hear what people are using, or can suggest re video editing hardware (on a budget) here, so keep posting, please.

[user1111]

Thanks Taersh and Bigpup. Sorry to say I've tried all those options with this computer back in March, and no go. I should have mentioned using Bionic64 and Xenialpup 64 with more "advanced" video editors.

I truly believe it's not the OS, or the editor versions, but the hardware, Bigpup, I agree that needing >2GB is one of the major problems. I don't know if needing a 4 core proc (or better) also is a factor.

Anyway, if we focus on upgrading to say a used laptop of say 4 cores and 4gb memory, I guess my question is which of these works with Puppy? Anyone out there with a personal recommendation?

I've been very happy with my Acer Aspire laptop, so maybe something in that line?

Or if someone else does somewhat complex video editing with their not-so-new laptop using Puppy -- what are you using?

Thanks again, in advance....

Not a recommendation, just a observation. Acer Aspire ES 15 laptop here, AMD dual core with Radeon R2 graphics, 4GB DDR3 memory. Used to use Openshot but moved over to kdenlive after the most recent Openshot [sarcasm]downgrade[/sarcasm] (latest version). Openshot can be a devil to get the right versions of Blender and inkscape that collectively work well together.

I run Fatdog totally in RAM with a HDD partition (of 26GB) set to be Linux swap and with that loaded (I set it to be encrypted, so even slower than non encrypted), renders and edits videos/audio fine. But I guess rendering is slow compared to the latest available hardware, but I'm used to that so the slowness is expected/accepted i.e. some large renders might be a start it last thing at night, so its ready the next morning.

Without swap and video editing can lockup. Shutdowns after swap has been heavily used can be slow as it 'sorts out swap'.

I acquired this laptop as good as new (thrown-away as it didn't run Windows (well ran, but extremely slowly)).

Another option might be to run video editing on a 'powerful' desktop and use some form of remote desktop to control that from your laptop ??

[vtpup]

Thanks Ruffwoof. It's good to hear your experiences. I have quite a bit of hope for the upgrade I'll attempt shortly for this Acer laptop.

I did look up your Acer Aspire ES 15 on Ebay out of curiosity. They were pricey. So I did a lookup on my much less powerful 8 year old Acer Aspire, and was amazed to see a couple listed there for $350! Heck, I bought mine NEW for $275 retail eight years ago. Do laptops appreciate?

Well that's just weird. Maybe it's the financially stressed times we're in.

Anyway, still keeping the options open, I looked up ATX form factor motherboards for my desktop computer on Ebay. Again it seems older MB's with CPU's and some memory are selling used for a lot more than I would have thought -- even Pentium 4 motherboards (like the one I would be replacing).

Yet, for $115.99 on Ebay you can get a new "X79 Motherboard Set with LGA2011 Combo: Xeon E5 2620 CPU, 2Pcsx4GB = 8GB Me K7X5" from China:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/X79-Motherboar ... 721382921

In other words, motherboard, 6 core 12 thread CPU, and 8gb ram bundled together.

I believe my existing ATX power supply (24 pin 680 watts) would work, and my PCI express 2.0 MSI (Nvidia) fast graphic card would work in its PCI Express 3.0 slot. So that's something to think about if the laptop upgrade doesn't work. And considerably cheaper by about half than even a used laptop replacement.

[mikeslr]

Hi vtpup,

"amazed to see a couple listed there for $350! Heck, I bought mine NEW for $275 retail eight years ago."

They don't make them like they used to. Heck, they just don't make them.

You've just stumbled upon an instance of the rule of "Supply and Demand". The 1927 Model T sold for about $360. That's about $5,299, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T in today's dollars. Heck, they don't make dollars the way they used to. But, if you wanted to buy a 1927 Model T in good condition today, you'd have to spend at least $7,150, https://www.conceptcarz.com/valuation/7 ... del-t.aspx. For $7,150 you can purchase a far more functional vehicle. But if you just had to acquire a 1927 Model T, THEY JUST DON'T MAKE THEM. The demand for 1927 Model T's is low; but the supply is even lower.

[vtpup]

Well Mike I believe you.

Also the upgrade i5 2450M CPU arrived today (that was extremely fast!) $19 with shipping. Heh, apparently CPU's depreciate -- I bet that one cost a bundle new in its day! (edit, yup, $225) I'd like to say I simply popped it in and ran, but This laptop IS built like a tank. I had to take out maybe 20+ screws from both sides of the case just to crack it open. Had to undo half a dozen cables. This thing is on the inside very ruggedly and well built. I remember reading that on Tom's Hardware before I bought it. It's true. I think it weighs 2.5 kg.

Anyway, got it apart, got the fan and heatpipe assembly out (3 screws), cleaned off the heat compound on the old CPU and the cooler. Released the CPU (one screw) and removed it to a antistatic bag. Replaced it with the new CPU, and locked it in. I took the fan and cleaned it with compressed air (holding the fan still so as not to over rev it). 8 years of dust but it didn't actually look too bad. Then I put new heat compound on the CPU, and reversed all the steps. Crossed fingers and.....

It booted! Yay!

As a test I went into Bionicpup64 and tried out both Openshot 1.4.3 and Kdenlive on a video project both had choked on in that OS. Both ran smoothly! Woohoo!

I also rebooted into Tahrpup and as expected Openshot 1.4.3 worked well, as it had in that OS, but actually, better, definitely faster rendering, and no stuttering on a complicated (100+ clip) project, which it used to do occasionally.

So, best nineteen bucks I ever spent on a computer! And I haven't yet received the RAM I sent for, which will add another 4 gigs, for a total of 8. I thought I had 2 aboard already, but on opening the case I saw a single stick of 4, and an open slot. Not sure why hardinfo reports 2.7 gigs.

It also now reports the new proc as 4 core (though it's actually 2), 2.5 Ghz vs the earlier 2 core 1.6 Ghz proc. When the RAM comes I'll have spent 40 bucks total!.

I'm glad I bought a tank laptop, now. I figure I put 10,000 hours on it. All Puppy. I've gone through a keyboard, an optical drive, and about a year ago I decided it was time to replace the hard drive. But this thing just keeps on plugging away.

Now at multiples of the speed it did yesterday.

[user1111]

Heck, they don't make dollars the way they used to.

A one ounce gold coin bought a Roman soldier a nice suit, as might a one ounce gold coin buy a modern day nice suit. Recently it takes over 40 times more US$'s to buy a ounce of gold coin than in 1972, and under Covid that's rapidly appreciating, resuming a trend that started back at the turn of the millennium.

dg.png (46.71 KiB) Viewed 1009 times

Other assets such as stocks and bonds have appreciated in reflection of the 'cheaper dollar'. On the flip side the likes of foreign made laptops will tend to increase in US$ terms.

Old school investors might hold stocks, gold and cash (bonds) and buy stuff out of whichever of those 'currencies' had appreciated the most. For Gen-Z its more a case of P2P, Bitcoin and Glint. Being old, recently passed into my 60's, I'm more of a old school investor. I recall times when it took just 70 ounces of gold to buy the average UK house, and other times when it took over 700 ounces. Relatively expensive or relatively cheap is a relative thing. How many Apple shares for instance to buy the average Apple computer/phone, and without looking I suspect Apple phones are relatively cheaper in Apple shares terms.

[greengeek]

I second rufwoofs earlier suggestion of adding a massive swap partition.

Even if your only option is to add swap via a USB port it will still act as if it was RAM - except for speed.

So if anyone is on a supreme tight budget - get something like a 32MB usb2 stick, format it as swap, then set "swap on".

It works.

[vtpup]

Hi greengeek, thanks. I have a 1 terabyte 7200 rpm HD with a 16GB swap on that. Too little?

[greengeek]

Hi greengeek, thanks. I have a 1 terabyte 7200 rpm HD with a 16GB swap on that. Too little?

Good question. I would have thought that 16GB would be plenty and would have stopped the problems you were experiencing.

What kind of file sizes are you working with?

But i only ever do basic video processing with ffmpeg - not direct capture or anything that specifically needs synchronous / realtime processing. Maybe my comment re swap is incompatible with what you are doing.

But if you have the space it wouldn't hurt to increase the 16GB to 32GB and see if there is any benefit.

And its also possible that maybe the use of swap is dependent on Pupmode. Maybe some pupmodes don't allow swap to be used in the way it works on my system (pupmode 5) - where it behaves exactly like RAM (but slower).

[vtpup]

Thanks greengeek. I think my main problems were 1.) a new need for higher resolution complex video editing, 2.) limited RAM - 4 GB and 3.) a modest (for even 2012 standards) Celeron processor. This kept me using Tahrpup (32 bit) and Openshot 1.4.3 for low res (VGA) videos, and marginally, at that, with occasional crashes.

Swap is slower than RAM, so I actually think avoiding it if possible by increasing memory is the best route -- especially when I can double my RAM for $24. The new RAM hasn't arrived yet, so I can't report on any improvement there. so far.

And the better processor I just installed yesterday has essentially doubled the speed of the machine -- at $19. And there was a clear improvement in being able to use Bionicpup 64 and newer video editing programs. Previously the programs' editing monitors skipped or crashed. Now playback with them is full motion smooth. This change may now allow me to use Bionicpup as my main OS rather than Tahrpup.

I don't see any problem with increasing swap to 32G however, and maybe it will be needed at high resolutions or rendering since my max RAM is limited to 8G -- I don't really know, so I'll take your advice.

[bigpup]

May not need to do this, but I would check to see.

Do a search and see if there is an update to the firmware(Bios) for this laptop.
A lot of the time they will provide a new updated bios that will turn on or enhance the ability to use features in a specific processor(s).

Best place to look is the manufactures web site.
Search for the specific model of the laptop.

Sometimes the update will fix bugs in the bios you may not know about.

I do not think, I have ever had a computer, that after initial release, did not have a updated bios, available to install.
Usually the update bios will have info on what it will do.
I have had ones I did not download and use, because the fix was not something I needed.

[bigpup]

Swapeness control is in

/etc/sysctl.conf

Change or adding the line

Code: Select all

#Set swappiness value
vm.swappiness=10

The number is the percentage point of how much free RAM there is.
When free RAM reaches this point, swap is used.

Set with the value to your preference.

How to Manage Swap Usage in Linux
https://www.maketecheasier.com/manage-swap-usage-linux/

[vtpup]

Hi Bigpup. Neither my Tahrpup installation nor my Bionicpup64 has /etc/sysctrl.conf

Good idea about checking for the Bios version online. But Acer Support indicates that I have the latest BIOS already installed (1.08).

[taersh]

Hi Bigpup. Neither my Tahrpup installation nor my Bionicpup64 has /etc/sysctrl.conf

Mine has /etc/sysctrl.conf. Though I added this manually when I was updating my OS for best audio/midi real time performance. Here's my content of it:

Code: Select all

vm.swappiness = 10
fs.inotify.max_user_watches = 524288
dev.hpet.max-user-freq = 3072

[vtpup]

Thanks taersh. I made up a file with the swappiness stanza, and added it to /etc/ on both Tahrpup and Bionicpup64 frugal installs.

[vtpup]

Just an update in case anyone is interested.

I received the 4gig RAM stick and added it. That boosted internal ram to 8GB in Bionicpup64. I noticed that my regular Tahrpup frugal installation reported it as 2.7G, so I downloaded and replaced with the PAE version, and then it was 8GB. Tests:

Tahrpup 6.0.5 PAE:

1.) I tried an older 32 bit version of Cinelerra CV in Tahrpup and it ran great with the new proc and memory.
In the past it had struggled and crashed.
2.) Likewise Openshot 1.4.3. ran fast and without stuttering in playback on a complex (100 cut+) project.

Bionicpup64 ver 8, w/current Quickpet updates:

1.) I installed latest version of Cinelerra GG (cin_5.1.ub18.04-20200831_amd64) and it works extremely well in limited tests so far.
2.) Kdenlive starts and runs, though I haven't tested it much. I like the look and feel of Cinelerra better.
3.) I tried installing OpenShot-v2.5.1-x86_64 Appimage. Crashes silently.
4.) I had trouble installing Kodi from the Quickpet installer. Won't run. Error msg:
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/kodi/kodi-x11: /lib64/libssl.so.1.1: version `OPENSSL_1_1_1' not found (required by /usr/lib64/libmysqlclient.so.20)

[norgo]

Hello @vtpup

you wrote about some application crashes.
Do you know the reason ?
In my experiences laptops are mostly not suited for video editing / encoding because of insufficient cooling.
Only for interest, what's the cpu temperature during video encoding ?

[mikewalsh]

@vtpup :-

With regard to Kodi, there's an AppImage of Kodi 18.4 "Leia" that was mentioned in the old AppImages thread at Murga-Linux. I believe it was jplt who found it.

Be that as it may, it works fine in Bionicpup64. I've got a copy on my Drive if ya want one:-

https://drive.google.com/file/d/117zJUI ... sp=sharing


Mike.