Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Mainly been using WPS (older version 10.1.0.5707) in partner's business, particularly for its spreadsheet app (et) which has proved to be very user-friendly with functionality very close to MS Excel.
However, it is not open source and I don't like idea of using later versions in case restricted and I don't trust non-open-source-model of production.

We also have recent version of Libreoffice installed (7.3.4.2), which is great on the whole too, but a few issues:

I don't find it quite so intuitive to use (referring to calc here really).
It's significantly slower to load than WPS or Softmaker office/Freeoffice.
Some large Excel xlsx files that can be read fine by WPS cause LOcalc to hang (most are fine though). I thought it might be LOcalc's old limit of only 1024 columns max in spreadsheet (in recent years Excel allows over 16k columns, and so does WPS), but latest LOcalc has 'experimental' support for 16k and that didn't resolve the issue for the larg xlsx file I had trouble with...

That same xlsx file also caused Software/FreeOffice calc to hang... and it does support 16k columns (and actually there were only a few dozen occupied columns in the spreadsheet anyway...).
One big issue that causes me to reject use of Software Office and also their Freeoffice is that in spreadsheet Calc-D key combination does not duplicate down hightlighted spreadsheet rows - that is an essential quick method we employ creating pretty complex business spreadsheets. Note that all of WPS, LOcalc, and Excel itself do use Ctrl-D in the same way...

I also needed Conditional Formatting to work the same (or similar) as it does in MS Excel and it pretty much does in both WPS and LOoffice.

Anyway, despite slow load speed of LOcalc and a few freeze issues, I'm currently moving to use that instead of old WPS - which is helped by the business machine I have it on being quite powerful anyway (so load not so slow). Been using WPS for a couple of years so have different interface to learn and only time will tell if some complex operations prove difficult in LOcalc that we have been using in WPS, and also to check how compatible the resulting spreadsheets will be with MS Excel (since in business it remains pretty much essential to have good MS office compatibility as end result in terms of every print detail and of course functions and formatting tricks working the same in case loaded by someone using Excel rather than LOcalc.

Users who hardly use spreadsheets are likely to be more concerned with word processor (in similar compatibility fashion. However, in business use, both tend to be essential and many of the 'clever' tricks are often used so important they are well-supported in that closely compatible fashion. Even relatively simple invoice type spreadsheets tend to have complex formatting for specific printing needs. Of course it becomes more and more essential to use specialised accounting packages for, well... accounting, but often the formats available for invoice printing and so on are pretty limited or not easily modified in the way preferred and more so when different sized company logos need to be accommodated and well-presented. Furthermore, invoices are often not only to do with accounting, but also relate to "package lists" and other desired calculations; in such flexible/ever-changing situations, spreadsheets remain an essential.

Overall I have to say, open source and free, LibreOffice is improving in great strides and deserves support and recommendation. Of course, for lowish power computers it may well prove too heavy and slow, so that is a different matter... But, I won't underestimate the "performance" issue - it is a known fact (from known bugs) that some calculations that could be done in even older Excel in a few seconds can cause 100 CPU usage and basically freeze the system (and sometimes can't even cancel way out of it) - that's the big problem with LOcalc, since sometimes you can lose all your work if able to break out of the 'freeze': https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/sho ... ?id=144052

Like you, I place more emohasis on spreadsheets over word processors (I rarely use word processors beyond opening other people's docs).

Have you looked at gnumeric at all? I just started playing with it to see if it can be a full replacement for Excel since LibreOffice had a couple of minor annoyances. Just started with it, so I'm not sure of it's limitations yet.

@wiak :-

Mm. Interesting. You supplied further information here as to why folks want such close compatibility with MS Office when seeking out alternatives. It never occurred to me than people might also wish to be able to duplicate shortcuts and "tricks" in addition to the purely format-compatibility aspect, so as to incur minimum disruption to their accustomed work-flow.

I have to say here what I always say in such circumstances. If such 'clone-like' behaviour is an absolute must, then there's precious little option; bite the bullet, run Windows, and USE MS Office. There's no real alternative. After all, it's well-known that both Windows and Linux have their strong points; both are better at some things than they are at others, and there's no shame in running both. Use whatever does the best job for you.

The fact of the matter is that 90% of the world uses MS Office; ergo, it's become the "de-facto" standard by which all others are judged. Unfortunate (from our point of view) but true.

A thought. Have you ever tried OnlyOffice? It's a modern take on the office suite; slightly different from most 'standard' office suites, but quite good nonetheless. Just a suggestion, FWIW.

(I know it's my personal preference wherever available, but the AppImage of this works particularly well. It IS 64-bit only, however, like so much current software.....but it does appear to run under everything as far back as Tahrpup64. And that's now quite old).

Mike.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:55 pm

If such 'clone-like' behaviour is an absolute must, then there's precious little option; bite the bullet, run Windows, and USE MS Office. There's no real alternative. After all, it's well-known that both Windows and Linux have their strong points; both are better at some things than they are at others, and there's no shame in running both. Use whatever does the best job for you.

Unfortunately, for many people that may well be true sometimes in these circumstances - MS has created a bit of a monopoly. However, as we know, the likes of WPS and Libreoffice have done a great job of providing much of the same facility, function, and so on, yes even down to Ctrl-D type key press meaning and usage. Actually, I myself don't mind alternative way of doing same thing, but fact is, I find nothing in Software Office (neither via any menu nor any keypress combination), for example, that does same action as Ctrl-D does (for spreadsheets) in Excel, and same as Excel in WPS, and LibreOffice Calc (so either of these spreadsheets work fine in my work flow so no need for me to use MS Windows fortunately - I just wouldn't myself use Software Office because that Ctrl-D mechanism is just too useful and time-saving for me in practice (which is what matters in the end in this business-type scenario). Maybe I simply missed how to do it in Software Office products?

As I say, LibreOffice proves pretty good and is getting better all the time, but I will look also at that other Office Suite you mention.

sfein1000 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 10:52 am

Like you, I place more emohasis on spreadsheets over word processors (I rarely use word processors beyond opening other people's docs).

Have you looked at gnumeric at all? I just started playing with it to see if it can be a full replacement for Excel since LibreOffice had a couple of minor annoyances. Just started with it, so I'm not sure of it's limitations yet.

I used to play with gnumeric, but at a time I didn't need spreadsheets the way I do now. As a spreadsheet, calculation-wise, I think it will be fine. I will check it out again, but I rather doubt it will provide all the fancy conditional formatting tricks all of Excel, WPS, and LibreOffice do provide - alas I can't do without these facilities. We highlight certain entries in different colours and so on depending on values and stuff like that, so it isn't just about calculations/formulas and so on, but also about flexibility of presentation.

I don't use conditional formatting that much. I know it supports it, but to the level you need, no clue. I have a basic white vs grey background depending on if a certain cell in the row is odd or even.

Although, somewhat parallel, OpenOffice is till FULLY supported. This original project is still in active open-source development and is very-very good.

What I do (and students) is to use cloud services, more and more. Its ubiquitous and ever-present no matter where on the planet we are located They are accustomed to working with their information using either local tools or cloud tools with their local data or data that they store on NAS or the Cloud.

They, rightfully I think, see all of this as merely tools rather than Operating Systems with their only concern of how to get to the tool(s).

I am not suggesting an individual tool or a path to follow; merely showing what they do.

Edit: The incorrect reference to Mozilla is removed.

Clarity wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:21 pm

Although, somewhat parallel, OpenOffice is till FULLY supported. This original Mozilla project ...

Evidence please.

Get it here

Enjoy

I'm questioning your claim that OpenOffice started as a Mozilla project.

rcrsn51 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:31 pm

Clarity wrote: ↑Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:21 pm

Although, somewhat parallel, OpenOffice is till FULLY supported. This original Mozilla project ...

Evidence please.

Mozilla is not the originator of OpenOffice, that would be Sun Microsystems which acquired Star Office, releasing parts of it as open source.
Some people??? Hehe!

Yes.

Originally wasn't StarOffice based in Hamburg, Germany? I think so.....I used their programs often back in the day.

I used it happily because StarOffice could handle preferred Microsoft document formats.