Let's compare filemanagers

[wiak]

... I love rox. Would prefer a 2-or-4 pane option, but that absence is a minor inconvenience. See rox-sets, https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=4282 and my take-away from instructions by williams2, https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 909#p39586. I personally think that tunnel vision among Devs of the 'Big Boy' distributions prevents rox from being more widely used.

The above is from another thread related to docx wordprocessors, but I felt it would be worth a separate discussion on the merits and capabilities of the filemanagers we most popularly use. In particular, the majority are probably using Rox, pcmanfm, or thunar. Yes, the likes of xfe, nemo, nautilus (files), konqueror, dolphin, krusader, double commander, and commandline-based like mc are also being used, but primarily I'd like to focus on Rox, pcmanfm, and thunar simply because of the dev situation here where these are the most used in new distro creations here I feel (but no problem with posts about other filemanagers).

So, without bias or opinion in this first post, I start with a few questions (there are more I'll leave for others to add) for those who have opinions and knowledge of features, capabilities, resource usage and so on:

1. What is it you like of love about Rox filemanager?
2. What does it offer you that the likes of pcmanfm or thunar do not?
3. What does it not provide that these others do better?

It would be useful to eventually draw up a comparison table to quickly reveal the differences (including links to HowTos), pros and cons I feel (including dependencies since these effect distro build sizes).

[Flash]

I only know Rox, but Rox is a real eye-opener if all you're used to is Windows. I only wish Rox included tree in its bag of tricks. No file manager does. I always have to install it separately.

[williwaw]

1. What is it you like of love about Rox filemanager?
2. What does it offer you that the likes of pcmanfm or thunar do not?
3. What does it not provide that these others do better?

rox, as shipped with puppy, easy ect, is nice on account of the configurations. the options typically offered by the right click menu create a work flow one can get used to. I miss it when I try other fm's

dunno if rox is actually more configurable than others tho.

nothing wrong with having more than one installed. if searching through trees is needed, ranger is good for that.

[amethyst]

I only know Rox, but Rox is a real eye-opener if all you're used to is Windows. I only wish Rox included tree in its bag of tricks. No file manager does. I always have to install it separately.

Is this a tree view of folders? You can make your own tree view with a bit of innovation under Bookmarks.

[ozsouth]

I use emelfm (v1). Dual-pane trees with central column commands & some right-click functions.
I've set pmount to open it at the mount point & use a pmount icon.
Is 32bit & needs 5 gtk1 libs to run under 64bit. No dragging or manual refreshes needed.

I use ROX-Filer to install .pet & view/load .sfs.

I liked pcmanfm, but not the need to press f5 (refresh) if you rename a folder at / .
If I make a change I expect an auto refresh.

Xfe is pretty good, but dated, & setting up file associations is time-consuming.

[bigpup]

I use Rox file manager, but I always start it with two windows.
I use this to do it.

Roxset -Open two Rox windows side by side
https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=4282
.
.

[geo_c]

Xfe is pretty good, but dated, & setting up file associations is time-consuming.

xfe is very good, but takes a little tweaking to make it look good, especially in the icon department. The fact that the file associations can be set independent of ROX is a big plus for me. I let ROX open all the default MIME types, and set xfe to open other applications, for instance my XFE opens jpg's with GIMP, so I use ROX to view images, and XFE to edit them.

ROX has many, many advantages. And the bottom line for me, if I'm in a hurry and I need to see many places on my system at once and move things around, there is no other file manager that really makes the above approach a practical reality.

[wizard]

@Flash

I only wish Rox included tree in its bag

What is tree? A view or a separate program.

Thanks
wizard

[williams2]

Would prefer a 2-or-4 pane option

A screenshot of 3 rox windows and a urxvt window, tiled by dwm (SucksLess)

Normally I like one window, maximized. Dwm does that by default, or I can press alt+M

To automatically tile all the windows in a workspace, I can press alt+T

Some window managers may be starting to support automatic tiling.

1920x1080_scrot.jpg (189.17 KiB) Viewed 1889 times

[Flash]

Here is the latest version of Tree that I have:

tree_1.8.0-1_amd64.pet

(48.16 KiB) Downloaded 24 times

Install it (first change the .pet to .deb.), then open a console in the directory you want to look at and enter tree. Enter tree --help to see the options.

It works great to make an index of my extensive collection of audio books.

[norgo]

I'm using pcmanfm-qt ( NOT pcmanfm )

one OR two panels
additional several tabs for each site possible
very good connectivity and a lot of supported transfer protocols

@ozsouth ( for info only ) auto-refresh of screencontent works without problems in pcmanfm-qt

and this feature I like very much !
when I navigate in pcmanfm-qt to a directory where the desired file is located
and I choose open Terminal or press F4
the terminal is opening automatically in the same directory

[williams2]

when I navigate in pcmanfm-qt to a directory where the desired file is located
and I choose open Terminal or press F4
the terminal is opening automatically in the same directory

Using rox in Puppy, press ~ (the tilde key, left of the 1 key, using the US keymap.)
or press F4

Or using the rox menu window ==> Terminal Here

[wiak]

I am happy enough generally with either pcmanfm or thunar. RIght-click custom actions are easy to set up in thunar for example. It is also no issue to open up two instances of either pcmanfm or thunar (in addition to the usual dual-pane normal modes) so can copy and paste between these two separate instances (as well as or in addition to separate tabs for different directories in either) - this is pretty powerful as is the usual mount filesystem capabilities either are usually configured to provide (maybe via gvfs for example in pcmanfm).

However... one thing I hate about both pcmanfm and thunar that I love about rox is the creation of symlinks during copy paste operations... Rox has these wonderful options: move, copy or make either relative or absolute symlink!

I just can't do relative symlinks, for example using either pcmanfm or thunar (I can get absolute symlink via menu in thunar, for example, but when I'm making a filesystem that I intend moving around sometimes I need relative symlinks...). So, generally, on the systems I use that have either pcmanfm or thunar on them (or similar) by default, I always resort to the commandline when creating symlinks - that is a pain - I lose the user-friendly benefit of GUI quick copy/paste make symlinks - unless I install rox-filer!!!

But there is an issue... Rox-filer is ANCIENT and it is GTK+2 is it not, which means deprecated and will add bloat to support on modern systems (needs libgtk2.0 and so on)?
So what is the long term answer from Puppy Linux for this?

Look at the github commit years in the attached image...

[williwaw]

However... one thing I hate about both pcmanfm and thunar that I love about rox is the creation of symlinks during copy paste operations... Rox has these wonderful options: move, copy or make either relative or absolute symlink!

I just can't do relative symlinks, for example using either pcmanfm

preferences>general>default drop action=ask gives you a choice, not sure what of what kind of links however

[wiak]

However... one thing I hate about both pcmanfm and thunar that I love about rox is the creation of symlinks during copy paste operations... Rox has these wonderful options: move, copy or make either relative or absolute symlink!

I just can't do relative symlinks, for example using either pcmanfm

preferences>general>default drop action=ask gives you a choice, not sure what of what kind of links however

Currently just have thunar in front of me. I can easily enough create absolute link by drag drog via ctrl shift key press, but don't know how to create relative link (i.e. the ../../linkname kind of thing).

Also in thunar you can highlight source file and use Edit > Make Link, but again creates an absolute target address for the symlink.

[williwaw]

dunno about thunar.
the recommendation was from a test I did on vanilla, which I guess uses a pcmanfm deb

[wiak]

dunno about thunar.
the recommendation was from a test I did on vanilla, which I guess uses a pcmanfm deb

I just quickly installed pcmanfm on my system. Probably had most dependencies already so only a 6MB download and only occupies further 27MB on my system. Very similar to thunar when it comes to symlink creating (Edit menu > Create Link) and also just absolute link... Rox wins there for me for sure (choice of relative or absolute link)...

[geo_c]

I just quickly installed pcmanfm on my system. Probably had most dependencies already so only a 6MB download and only occupies further 27MB on my system. Very similar to thunar when it comes to symlink creating (Edit menu > Create Link) and also just absolute link... Rox wins there for me for sure (choice of relative or absolute link)...

Xfe doesn't give an option for relative symlinks either, and that's one of the reasons I still use Rox.

[wizard]

@geo_c

XFE's right click menu let's you create a "symlink to". If using two panes it is placed automatically in the second pane unless you choose another target or if using one pane it prompts you to navigate to the target directory. Quite handy and it is a relative symlink. XFE does not have an option to create an absolute link.

wizard

xfe-symlink.jpg (44.35 KiB) Viewed 1558 times

[geo_c]

@geo_c

XFE's right click menu let's you create a "symlink to". If using two panes it is placed automatically in the second pane unless you choose another target or if using one pane it prompts you to navigate to the target directory. Quite handy and it is a relative symlink. XFE does not have an option to create an absolute link.

wizard
xfe-symlink.jpg

Right, I'm getting my terms confused. Relative symlink or absolute symlink, versus hardlink. I think this where MC probably beats them all. It's got link, symlink, relative symlink right in the file menu. Except you can't do what I did with 12 simple one-pane ROX windows open in MC either, at least not drag and drop between them. I suppose you could have 6 dual pane terminal windows open.

I have opened three or four dual pane XFE windows in the past, but sometimes it gets buggy doing that. You might wonder why someone needs to open so many file manager windows, well, I just did this to make all the icons sets I put in the Eye Candy section of the forum. I needed to make sure every set had every icon correctly, so I opened all of them side by side in narrow strips as I batch processed them. That's ROX's strong point, as well as doing panels and pinboards, and being built in to puppy.

One thing I like about XFE is it uses the standard MC like function-key bindings, for the most part. It's got good keybindings out of the box, as well as good mouse and right click functions.

[mikewalsh]

A BIG thumbs-up for ROX, here.

As Flash says, yes; it does take some getting used to if all you've ever known is Windows. My first several questions on the old Forum when I joined over 8 years ago revolved around this.

But having used it all these years, I've now got so handy with it I just can't imagine using anything else. Drag'n'drop is so natural - for me - I hate PCManFM and Thunar mainly for this very reason, 'cause copy/paste and switching directories all the time is SUCH a PITA.....and slows me down no end. Admittedly, with the new, much bigger screen I have now, it's a lot easier to have multiple ROX windows open at the same time without them obscuring each other.

It was definitely an issue with the old 1024x768 monitor I used to use....but I prefer them 'floating'; tried tiling managers, and, er, no.....I don't like them. To me, it's not organisation so much as "regimentation" (again).

Each to their own, of course. We all have our preferred way of doing things.

Mike.

[wiak]

But having used it all these years, I've now got so handy with it I just can't imagine using anything else. Drag'n'drop is so natural - for me - I hate PCManFM and Thunar mainly for this very reason, 'cause copy/paste and switching directories all the time is SUCH a PITA.....and slows me down no end.

But Mike, there is no such issue... I like all of them: Rox, pcmanfm, and thunar, except for that symlinks copy issue, where Rox is a real beauty for me.

There is no issue with Drag'n'drop files - only seems so because when most people use the likes of thunar they open one instance and mess about thinking they need to open different tabs to different directories and keep switching between these as they copy and paste. But actually, you can do copy and paste exactly like you would with Rox - i.e. open a second instance of say thunar and copy between the windows of the two instances - so you have that choice! If you do it that way, there is basically no difference whether you are using two Rox windows for Drag'n'drop or two pcmanfm windows, or two thunar windows - you don't even need dual panes to be active in either pcmanfm or thunar, so pretty much just like using Rox...

My issue remains that of relative symlink Drag'n'Drop; nothing I know of beats Rox for that manoevre, but, alas, Rox is ancient and not supported any more... I've tried messing with 'Custom Actions' in thunar and I can use that to make relative symlinks in same directory buit not for relative symlinks in entirely different directories - just no easy way I have ever found (maybe I just don't know the method, but I have tried...).

[rockedge]

In KLV-Airedale-beta16 I drag & drop files between Thunar and Rox which works really well. Otherwise no problem using Thunar in a similar style as Rox, with 2 instances open in separate windows

[peebee]

Agree 100% with comments about Rox superiority with relative symlinks - both in their creation but also reporting easily where they link to (just hover).

Rox "Properties" report also provides extra information that is sometimes useful.

Use PcManFM majority of time under LXDE with occasional Rox when needed.

BTW - Woof-CE Rox petbuild uses a Woof-CE fork of Rox source:
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/r ... r/releases
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... /rox-filer

[MochiMoppel]

Rox "Properties" report also provides extra information that is sometimes useful.

It's more than information. This "Properties" dialog holds a little secret. One of the last lines may read
"Link target:/mnt/sdc1"
This looks like a mere label, but in fact it's an entry field. You can change the link target here. Just doubleclick and edit. Press Enter when finished. No need to click "Refresh".

This is very useful in case of dead links and my example is what I actually had to do 10 minutes ago. After waking up from suspend my PC suddenly had reassigned my SD card from sdc1 to sdb1, and /mnt/home, which used to be a symlink to /mnt/sdc1, was dead, and so were all my desktop icons. I changed the link in the "Properties" dialog for /mnt/home to /mnt/sdb1, now everything is back to normal. Very easy.

[backi]

Hi @MochiMoppel wrote:

This is very useful in case of dead links and my example is what I actually had to do 10 minutes ago. After waking up from suspend my PC suddenly had reassigned my SD card from sdc1 to sdb1, and /mnt/home, which used to be a symlink to /mnt/sdc1, was dead, and so were all my desktop icons. I fixed the link in the "Properties" dialog for /mnt/home. Very easy.

I occasional run/ran into this Kind of Problem.

Cool Tip/Information

[mikewalsh]

Rox "Properties" report also provides extra information that is sometimes useful.

It's more than information. This "Properties" dialog holds a little secret. One of the last lines may read
"Link target:/mnt/sdc1"
This looks like a mere label, but in fact it's an entry field. You can change the link target here. Just doubleclick and edit. Press Enter when finished. No need to click "Refresh".

Once again, interesting and useful information. Thanks, Mochi.

Mike.

[wizard]

I spend a lot of time managing and manipulating files on my network and I've tried every Linux file manager I could find.

For many years I have used the combination of Rox and XFE. I like Rox for its integration with Puppy and have watched it become more useful with features like "copy and paste", "/" search, and bookmarks. One annoyance for me has been on my 100Mbps network I have some directories with over 1000 files and Rox may take 8-10 seconds to populate the file names. Other file managers are almost instant.

I chose XFE for its power and customization ability. Dual pane detail mode allows me to see, compare and manipulate directory contents easily. It has an integrated file search function as well as a file compare. XFE can work in concert with ROX and here are some things that make the combination more useful.

XFE can set up its own file associations that only apply when using XFE., plus you can assign separate programs to open, view or edit a file.
Create XFE file associations to ROX (just right click one of the file types>properties) for:
.pet
.sfs
.deb
.iso
This lets XFE call Rox to install/uninstall or mount/open those file types.

I've added half a dozen scripts/programs into XFE Tools>Go to scripts folder that allow mounting drives and network shares from within XFE. The scripts can then be accessed by right clicking any file or folder.

This right click feature is very powerful since other scripts can take advantage of the fact that when run it will take the selected file/directory as the first argument of a function.

xfe-scripts.jpg (81.64 KiB) Viewed 1218 times

XFE has more features and functions than are practical to list here and even after all my use I am still finding some of them and ways to make my task easier.

For every day casual file management Rox is my choice, but for a power tool it's XFE.

wizard

[wiak]

So it is easy to create an absolute symlink in either pcmanfm or thunar and then of course you can move that anywhere since it uses absolute addressing. Or you can create absolute link via drag and drop in pcmanfm or thunar if you press ctrl+shift whilst doing the drag'n'drop.

Issue I have is that I later sometimes want to convert such adsolute symlinks to relative ones so I can move blocks of directories to alternative mount points and similar.

Of course it is far too much work often to manually modify all absolute symlinks to relative ones, but fortunately there is a tiny little commandline utility called 'symlinks' that will convert all symlinks in any directory (and can do so recursively) into relative symlinks, so that is a way to address the matter. Still not as convenience as Rox drag and drop relative symlinks ability but useful in other situations anyway. Oddly I feel, the 'symlinks' utility will not convert a single symlink to a file from absolute to relative, you need to specify a directory (which can be a single dot) and it will convert all absolute symlinks in that dir to relative.

Debian/Ubuntu have 'symlinks' program in their repos, so could also access that via a Custom Action script in pcmanfm or thunar.

How to use it: https://rubenvarela.com/guides/symlinks-utility/

Might also be worth looking at the C source code for symlinks to see if could be easily modified. EDIT: I'm looking at symlinks sourcecode now; not unsurprisingly it is a relatively simple short piece of code so despite being a few years since I programmed in C making this work the way I want may prove possible. But I'm busy just now - added it to my list of things to do!!! EDIT2: Given up on idea to modify the util; original symlinks util is good enough for my purposes and despite being short program it has several includes and involves recursive directory walks - not at all a trivial job to modify probably.

[Burunduk]

It seems the GNU ln command can convert a single absolute symlink to a relative one.

Code: Select all

ln -srf link-to-file
ln -srf link1 link2 dir

The busybox ln can't do that (-r is not supported).
Edit: removed an unnecessary option.