Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

I am thinking of doing a 32-bit i686 compile in OpenEmbedded, and build EasyOS.

What has motivated this, is have got out my old Acer Laptop, that has been sitting in a closet for years. I bought it circa-2005. It has Windows XP. Still works, but the Quirky Linux 6.1.0 is a bit too old. I want to test the Limine Installer on it, but some utilities, such as 'lsblk' are too old -- and fail when tried to compile a recent util-linux package (that has lsblk).

A question though...
it has been a long time since I compiled a 32-bit x86 Linux kernel. Can anyone provide me with a recent .config file?
Maybe one used in one of the 32-bit pups.

BarryK wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 1:02 pm

I am thinking of doing a 32-bit i686 compile in OpenEmbedded, and build EasyOS.

Woohoo - this is great news. I have a circa-1999 Panasonic Toughbook CF-T2 running Precise Pup that I'd love to dust off, plus an IBM Thinkpad T43 running NetBSD and BionicPup

You have to know how to put your energy and your knowledge for valid objectives. Is it worth putting your efforts into a 32-bit version?...I can't answer for you but I'm not convinced of the merits of the approach

The kernel will be 5.15.x

I don't intend to give it much support, just build it and get it to boot.
I know, I have the tendency to take on more and more, then get burnt out.
Plus, there just isn't enough time, especially as I want to move onto the Bookworm 64-bit series.

I'm hoping that a Dunfell 32-bit build will basically work, so won't require much effort.

Right, have started an OpenEmbedded build, for target architecture i686.

I am very curious to find out how clever OE is. It is a cross-compile environment, so setting the target as i686, it should compile all the packages. Though, I am expecting some failures.

If it succeeds, compiling most packages, nothing essential failed, then can just import the binary packages into woofQ and build a 32-bit EasyOS. And it should work.

The only extra thing required will be to compile the kernel in a running system, as although it is compiled in OE, it is not configured quite right, and missing the aufs patch.

Note, I recently did an aarch64 target build in OE, and that compiled most of the packages.
That was for the rpi4, and it worked on the pi. But took it no further, lack of time.

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... onfigs_x86

also ready built kernels e.g.:
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... 2687447639

As long as you're working on a 32-bit EasyOS, you may want to consider a containerized SFS preferably with a version of wine (version2013's 3.3 recommended) builtin. It would be very useful and far superior than the Chrooted wine I discussed here, https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 971#p33971. Somewhat less relevant, https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=2515

peebee wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:38 am

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... onfigs_x86

also ready built kernels e.g.:
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... 2687447639

Thanks for those links.
I notice most of the configs are "pae". I'm wondering though, whether many of those old computers would have more than 4GB RAM?
Wouldn't that be an exception, that someone put more than 4GB into their computer, back then?

For older systems that won't boot PAE kernels - new kernels have the forcepae option and adding

-- forcepae

to kernel line gets it to boot. (note there's a space after -- )

peebee wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:57 am

Code: Select all

-- forcepae

to kernel line gets it to boot. (note there's a space after -- )

Read here.

peebee wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:57 am

For older systems that won't boot PAE kernels - new kernels have the forcepae option and adding

Code: Select all

-- forcepae

to kernel line gets it to boot. (note there's a space after -- )

I have an old Pentium M that I run peebee's 32 bit BionicPup on. I do have to use -- forcepae, but it works very well.

Airdale wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:19 pm

I have an old Pentium M that I run peebee's 32 bit BionicPup on. I do have to use -- forcepae, but it works very well.

Try removing the --

BarryK wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:13 am

peebee wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:38 am

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... onfigs_x86

also ready built kernels e.g.:
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... 2687447639

Thanks for those links.
I notice most of the configs are "pae". I'm wondering though, whether many of those old computers would have more than 4GB RAM?
Wouldn't that be an exception, that someone put more than 4GB into their computer, back then?

Mike Walsh discussed somewhere which 32-bit systems were manufactured incapable of managing more than 4 GB and which were manufactured with the capability, but not 'turned on'. 'forcepae' works with the latter. IIRC, the latter is slightly newer. It's highly unlikely that anyone having the former would (a) learn of EasyOS's existence and (b) be able to make use of its advancements which, to some extent, require more computing resources, RAM &/or CPU.

i frequently use a 32bit-only system with 2 gigs of ram and personally i lean towards kernels with PAE turned off, but, my processor also works just fine with PAE turned on it just doesn't really do anything useful since so little RAM. (intel atom). i have not been able to find if there is a disadvantage in speed or memory usage when using PAE than when not, so if there is a difference i guess it is very minor.

i have not been able to find if there is a disadvantage in speed or memory usage when using PAE than when not, so if there is a difference i guess it is very minor.

if your operating system is 32 bit
and if you have more that 4GB of ram,
then your OS can only see and use 4GB of your ram.

You can see how much ram Puppy thinks you have by typing free in a text terminal (console)

If you have 8GB of ram, a 32 bit OS will see only 4GB of ram.
If you have 16GB of ram, a 32 bit OS will see only 4GB of ram.
If you have 32GB of ram, a 32 bit OS will see only 4GB of ram.

If you have 4GB or less of ram, then you do not need PAE.

if you have a 64 bit OS, you do not need PAE.

If you do nodt need PAE, then you do not need FORCEPAE either.
FORCEPAE does not force PAE to run, even if it is not needed.
FORCEPAE does let the kernel know that the Pentium M cpu can work with PAE.
If you have less than 4GB, PAE will do nothing.
If you have less than 4GB, FORCEPAE will do nothing. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Also, -- forcepae does absolutely nothing.
Everything after -- is ignored by the kernel.
-- forcepae tells the Ubuntu boot loader installer know that you want the boot loader to add the forcepae option to the kernel line in menu.lst or grub.cfg.
That is all that it does.
It only does anything when you run the Ubuntu installer of the boot loader.
Puppy does not use it
Red Hat does not use it.
Only Ubuntu uses it.

-- forcepae does nothing in Puppy, ever.

EasyOS might use -- forcepae. Or not.
Debian Dogs might use -- forcepae. Or not.

Thanks for the feedback.
I have compiled kernel 5.15.55, with pae turned off, and also support only single-core CPU.
Choose i586 architecture.

I didn't enable pcmcia (pccard), perhaps should have.

williams2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:08 am

Also, -- forcepae does absolutely nothing.
Everything after -- is ignored by the kernel.

Please clarify. While that may be true in Ubuntu, it's not the case with my testing in Puppy and the Starter Kit. The "--" is ignored as an unrecognized option, but any following options are accepted.

Or are you saying that the subsequent options are ignored by the kernel but ARE passed on to the initrd?

Or are you saying that the subsequent options are ignored by the kernel but ARE passed on to the initrd?

Yes.

AFAIK, the kernel ignores everything after --
but the entire line of options is passed to the initrd
which passes it to the OS.
For example, dmesg and /tmp/xerrs.log and /tmp/bootkernel.log and /var/log/Xorg.0.log

But, while, as far as I know, this is how it used to work,
it may not work that way anymore.
I've learned long ago not to trust the documentation entirely.
It's often good to try a few tests, just to be sure.

-- can be used with other cli commands, like rm. For example:

# this lists files in the working dir, sorted by size:
ls -S
# this lists the file that is named "-S" which is a legal file name.
ls -- -S

Just now posted to my blog:

https://bkhome.org/news/202207/proposed ... elved.html

Here is the text:

The last couple of days, have been working on a 32-bit Dunfell-series. Did a complete recompile in OE, for a i686 CPU target, compiled a 5.15.55 kernel, got it to boot on my old circa-2005 Acer laptop -- or rather, it started to boot.

At the switch_root, got a kernel panic -- the famous "tried to kill init" message. Should be fixable, but I can see this soaking up another week, and it is fragmenting my time too much. There are already lots of issues with the 64-bit version 4.2.7, so decided to get back on track, just do the one thing.

Might come back to the 32-bit Easy at some future date.

Changing the subject:
Page refresh in Firefox is broken. I include the latest version with each release of EasyOS, now at 102.0.1.
Page refresh was broken somewhere around 100.0 or 010.0, can't recall exactly.
Had high hopes they would have fixed it by 102.0.1, but no.

When I upload a post to my blog, have to use page-refresh in SeaMonkey to see the new post.

This is TRULY the greatest news -

With 32 bit released, even at beta, the user group of Easy OS will be DOUBLED at least here...
we are looking forward to test it -

23 colleges students are waiting... all with old pc or laptops cause we are poor with student loans
cannot afford 64bit new things, plus other old stuffs are all 32 bit

THANKS Barry!

williams2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:08 am

i have not been able to find if there is a disadvantage in speed or memory usage when using PAE than when not, so if there is a difference i guess it is very minor.

if your operating system is 32 bit
and if you have more that 4GB of ram,
then your OS can only see and use 4GB of your ram.

You can see how much ram Puppy thinks you have by typing free in a text terminal (console)

If you have 8GB of ram, a 32 bit OS will see only 4GB of ram.
If you have 16GB of ram, a 32 bit OS will see only 4GB of ram.
If you have 32GB of ram, a 32 bit OS will see only 4GB of ram.

If you have 4GB or less of ram, then you do not need PAE.

if you have a 64 bit OS, you do not need PAE.

If you do nodt need PAE, then you do not need FORCEPAE either.
FORCEPAE does not force PAE to run, even if it is not needed.
FORCEPAE does let the kernel know that the Pentium M cpu can work with PAE.
If you have less than 4GB, PAE will do nothing.
If you have less than 4GB, FORCEPAE will do nothing. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Also, -- forcepae does absolutely nothing.
Everything after -- is ignored by the kernel.
-- forcepae tells the Ubuntu boot loader installer know that you want the boot loader to add the forcepae option to the kernel line in menu.lst or grub.cfg.
That is all that it does.
It only does anything when you run the Ubuntu installer of the boot loader.
Puppy does not use it
Red Hat does not use it.
Only Ubuntu uses it.

-- forcepae does nothing in Puppy, ever.

EasyOS might use -- forcepae. Or not.
Debian Dogs might use -- forcepae. Or not.

Why do you need RAM more than 4G if you are just doing the normal daily work?
Unless that gives Gaming advantage...even 2 G is good for almost all good games;
we are still with a lot of fun with XP running. Plus RAM upgrade costs so much money, at the end of day, for what?
Nothing more than a feeling of more RAM I guess.
XP 32 bit is still the most popular in family users, and certainly we expect easyos 32 bit will BE absolutely the BEST option for 90% of regular users.

Today tested 32-bit EasyOS on old laptop:

https://bkhome.org/news/202208/easyos-3 ... aptop.html

Pleased with it, so very likely will release it, maybe in a couple of days.

@BarryK That is some good news! Really seems that the demand for 32 bit OS's does still exist.

EasyOS is gaining ground and the 32 bit option with this powerful distro will find it's place for sure. The from ground up built in container system in a 32 bit system will be one of the only distro's capable of it.

I gave a friend of mine two old 32 bit computers. Usually I burn operating systems for him. I'd like to give him the 32 bit Easy OS if that's still in the works, and try booting it on my older laptop just for fun.