Build a ROLLING Puppy but completely without some Puppy ;-)) !

[oui]

Certain users will remember to my precedent proposal at https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=4898. The long messages from me in that thread (in my very bad English) shows that it was not easy enough...

... and it was not complete because you have to remake that job from time to time to maintain your Linux top and very actual.

The same thing can be done more simply and give you at the end a ROLLING small Linux for you or your friends or adepts if you manage a small Linux society of friends or helping others.

For those having never before meet the expression ROLLING linux (distribution): That kind of distribution does never upgrade. To be actual, YOU have to actualize it frequently in case of changes disturbing you jobs (ex.: your version of browser will be contested by an important site you need, such as your bank, an authority etc.) and your accesses to that what is important for you will be reduced . How to show what happens? Easy: download a very old Puppy (at archives for ex.) and work a bit with that old tool. You will meet immediately divers difficulties...

You never need to reinstall a ROLLING distro but it can happen, that you did wait to long before to re- actualize and you can not re actualize any more (= return to the starting box: you must reinstall fresh ).

Those from us having use years ago the wonderfull arch pup will probably remember that experience!

That because some important distributions like Arch Linux etc. are ROLLING distro's!

What is with Slackware, Ubuntu, Debian, Devuan? They are not really ROLLING distro's... The "stable" of those is NOT a ROLLING version!

But all use a certain time an experimental and testing stage of her distribution. The experimental stages are also real rolling stages of each one. The testing stages are frozen packages collections out the wide offer in experimental selected to be the possible next release.

I propose you to use the experimental depository of Devuan to configure yourself your own Linux.

What is Devuan?

It is the same thing as Debian but refusing the use of the highly contested architecture about systemd . systemd create a dependency of your system from that ugly "box". The same things can be done with more flexibility completely without systemd...

If you are brave and accept systemd, ok, do exactly the same with the depository of Debian ! Why to see problems where they are no!

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[oui]

if you are accustomed to install full installed distros (different of Puppy, Puppy is a live conception of distro!) go directly to the item VERY IMPORTANT at the bottom of this message!

actually, the depositories from Debian and Devuan (as Devuan will really be the same but without systemd) are blocked because of an very important package in the tree of obligatory dependencies of each installer installation (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... ug=1013916). But you will probably try to do your best and try to do it twice the experience?

If so, begin now with the stable version of Devuan (or Debian) .

go to the Devuan Archive at https://files.devuan.org/

and open the page for the actual stable (Chimaera)

then open the page for the installer-iso

and download the NETINSTALL-ISO (4th iso from the bottom!) (*1 with actually 405 M and install it on a stick, doing as follow:

- using gparted
-- select the stick (probably drive sdb !)
-- make a new table
-- make a new partition vfat16
-- mark the partition flag "bootable"

(you can install as you want or need the 32 or the 64 bit version of Chimaera!)

let the stick plugged
open the terminal
enter a command like (depending of if you are in Puppy and how the names of the directories are written, with capital or not):

dd if=/root/Download/the-exactly-name-of-your-downloaded-version.iso of=/dev/sdb status=progress

sdb only if it is sdb on your system! it can als be sdc for example. but no extension like "1"or "2"!

let the stick in and ...

... restart the PC and begin to install!

If you will transmit your OWN ISO's later to other people, opt for simply root and user names and password, for ex. the combinations root password root and user user and password user, as those names and passwords are not definitive!

VERY IMPORTANT:

the step «taskselect» at the end of the installation allow you to install an complete Devuan system with all proposed components based on XFCE4. It shows not like a Puppy any more in size and choice of components! You refuse to install more removing the two first "x" to deselect those wide choices and begin to made your Puppy (but accept the minimal set of tools, being the last option in the choices list)!

(*1 this netinstall-ISO is never available for testing/experimental - you have to use for the same purpose the number 1 of the serie of 4 installations CD-isoś and it is actually not available... The actual testing version of Devuan is Deadalus, pls, don't write "testing" instead deadalus! The actual experimental version of Devuan is Ceres, pls don't write "experimental" indestead of ceres! Ceres has no own iso! After the installation of Deadalus, you ave to change in the installed Deadalus in /etc/apt/sources.list deadalus into ceres, and actualize and upgrade with "apt"!

[oui]

You are also installing now a new full install to install it on an adequate memory, probably your hard disk.

You will install only the absolute minimal base from a conventional installation of Devuan with the minimal tools set (it is possible to install less stuff if you refuse the set of tools or if you install with using the debootstrap method. This method is used by developers and not easy. And you definitively needs tools!

During the next steps, you need a large partition as the partition will be used to shrink and squash the stuff of your new Puppy. The stuff is not squashed in the new partition and so 2,5..3,5 time or more, depending of what you will install, wider as the final ISO size (actually, MY Puppy size is just under 1000 MB in Chimaera. In Deadalus it would certainly be larger!). And the system need room to squash all that stuff to a «refracta snapshot» of your Puppy! I would say it is probably good to give your partition a size really between 10..20 GB!

(Note: you will win the possibility to erase that work partition again; read at https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 248#p61248 ! It is not a permanent loosed hard disk room at all )

Continue the installation and restart.

Your PC starts now with Grub-PC!

It contains a minimal Devuan-Installation.

If Windows is preinstalled, Grub-PC has discover it and taken under consideration.

Idem if other full installations of Linux are on the disk.

But not the Puppy's!

It is so...

(but you can link your old puppy's later in Grub-PC later easily if you fill up start instructions in the text document /etc/grub.d/40_custom ...)

After the installation is finish, restart, what else!

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[oui]

The base of your future Puppy starts and appears soon on the screen. You are in a terminal and have to login, probably with user/user if you did do like proposed.

The first step you will do is:

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apt update

The next step is enter once time as root into the system after login as user:

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su -

The system requires the root password (enter "root" if you did do like proposed)

and install as Super-User (su commando, as just given, ) the linux command "sudo":

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apt install sudo

To use that "sudo" command, the user receiving those super user rights needs to be registered in the file "/etc/sudoers".

To register you user "user" open and write into the now existing file /etc/suders following line after the same line for root (that you will see!):

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nano /etc/sudoers

and write after the line

root ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

a new line:

user ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL

and quit the small editor nano with the command ^x and Y (for yes)

user is now itself sudoer!
Quit the super user mode

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exit

as you can do all now with the "sudo" command at the begin of each commando line!

Reduce the stuff coming with following definition like in Linux Star (a small Linux derivate from Devuan)

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sudo nano /etc/apt/apt.conf

enter the require password for root, the nano editor starts again and enter following text (as in Star Linux proposed):

# APT::Default-Release "jessie";
APT::Install-Recommends "false";
APT::Install-Suggests "false";
APT::Get::Fix-Missing "true";
Acquire::Languages "none";
Acquire::Check-Valid-Until "false";

and close and save the doc with ^x and Y.

And you can now begin to add stuff into your new Puppy. Begin with he graphic mode extensions from Linux:

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sudo apt install sudo xorg menu jwm slim

If you restart now, the system will after that start now directly in graphic mode. you can probably work more easy in graphic mode for the rest of the installation!

[oui]

First of all now, Slim will open and require your user name and password, also user/user (note for later: you can also enter in the field user name the options "reboot" or "halt" to shutdown but have to enter the password of root!).

JWM appears now!

I would now install some tools:

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sudo apt install sudo xorg menu jwm slim gpm deborphan testdisk refractainstaller-base refractainstaller-gui refractasnapshot-base refractasnapshot-gui

and make my first snapshot with the new installed tool.

To do that, you must open a shell but the program "menu" like maintened by Debian does not install the right terminal. If you now open the menu and hit on "Terminal", nothing happens! It is no problem: on top in the menu, you will find the option Debian menu, hit on it, and soon you will find under the subdivision shells the option "bash". Hit on it and the terminal opens using bash!

Copy the precedent line into the open field of that bash terminal and install the tools!

After that, make your first "snapshot" using the option "1"

It is good to install progressively and register in text documents (the system does it for you for each step what did happen as you did install a very frugal version! If you miss functions after installation, you can look in those texts what the recommendation would be contain more! And you can complete just that what you miss and not a lot of functions you don't will use hat all, To do that, answer at the first time "N", the system doesn't install now, and hit on "cursor up", the same line appears again, and complete for ex. hier

sudo apt install sudo xorg menu jwm slim gpm deborphan testdisk refractainstaller-base refractainstaller-gui refractasnapshot-base refractasnapshot-gui > IgpmDeborphanTestdiskRefractainstaller-baseRefractainstaller-guiRefractasnapshot-baseRefractasnapshot-gui

if you now answer Y the system will write into a text document named IgpmDeborphanTestdiskRefractainstaller-baseRefractainstaller-guiRefractasnapshot-baseRefractasnapshot-gui[/textcolors to find in your home directory /home/user all the precedent text that it will accomplish now and halt. With return, it continues and installs and you have your documentation what did happen!

As you want a small installation, I would install preferently all from Gnome (plus didiwiki and plus mgp, a very small presentation):

With 2 time cursor up, get the precedent list again and extend it now, for ex. with, from Gnome and xfce4:

sudo apt install sudo xorg menu jwm slim gpm deborphan testdisk refractainstaller-base refractainstaller-gui refractasnapshot-base refractasnapshot-gui xfce4-appfinder xfce4-terminal thunar hunspell osmo gedit abiword gnumeric mgp viewnior mtpaint gimp didiwiki epiphany-browser midori luakit

(note: the last 2 browsers need only a fiew kbytes more!)

this is a very small office installation with good graphic applications (you can compare: answer N and recover the last line really installed and continue there with libreoffice! You will easily see and realize the difference!)

etc. depending of your jobs, think about sound and media apps, scan, OCR, printing (cups), and b=network (samba etc.)

[oui]

I would begin to use my system as it it now,. with the graphic extension and with the Office (and eventual sound, media or what you did want).

And before to continue, I would make a second snapshot, the snapshot with the completed installation.

upgrade the stable distro to the ROLLING ceres:

Edit please the script

/etc/apt/sources.list

and interchange the word "chimaera" through "ceres", save it and update the package list with the command

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sudo apt update

The system will warn, you have to upgrade more than 400 packages if you do that on the base (the content of the first snapshot you did already made).

and I would reinstall fresh using directly the new supplementary packages for the level Ceres, and I would do that as soon the Ceres ISO No. 1 appears at the download site from Devuan saying you so, all is now ok in Debian and already taken in consideration in Devuan!

To upgrade the 400 packages, you only have to use the following command:

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sudo apt upgrade

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You can of course prefer to upgrade the actual content of you system, but you will probably have to auto-remove different part of the good installation for Chimaera with following command:

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sudo apt auto-remove

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The system will ask if you want to actualize the content of divers scripts (sudoers etc.) through the proposals of the mainteners. Answer please No of course to avoid to have to complete then again!

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[oui]

learn refracta snapshot

You have actually done yourself 2 snapshots. You found the 4 files of the snapshots in the subdir /home/snapshot.

Make a snapshot is easy!

start refractasnapshot-gui and select the (proposed) option 1. The option 1 starts all the steps of the transaction (the other options would starts only parts / helping commands). after a short control, you can enter a name and continue. The collecting activity happens in front of you in the opened terminal window. after all parts of you system are collected, the system will manage all data, this need a certain time where nothing happens (don't break it!) and the squashing begin in the same terminal window. At the really end, you get the happy end message «All done!».

You can change a lot of dispositions yourself in the script /etc refractasnapshot.conf if you need that.

To protect a lot of your private data and not copy then, the system uses an exclude list. You find that exclude list at /usr/lib/snapshot_exclude.list

You can let it so, and the system will produce a squashed copy of your system in an ISO file probably INCLUDING the content of your /home/snapshot ! This is good to save the steps of your work. But it is not ideal to use the won ISO as a Puppy live system. You have to add the subdir /home/snapshot into the exclude list (or you move that subdir on a depository stick and refracta-snapshot creates each new snapshot his new snapshot subdir in /home !

To use you new installation like a Puppy, start the wanted ISO from a other stick and select the RAM usage offered in the Grub menu! It is all and enjoy!

If you are now happy with your success, you can begin using the refractasnapshot and it's exclude list, to shrink as you want the system adding new subdir's and files to the exclude list. the will make out your installation a real installation like Puppy. You can of course preserve files or directories more adequate for your site in the world (language, localization) an interchange with other users on that forum you progress shrinking the system!

[oui]

the refractainstaller offers an easy way to install or reinstall your system as soon snapshots are available. you did use hard disk room. you can make it free again until the next actualization of you system. you, or your friends if you gives other your isos, can change all details of the system (localization, language, dictionaries etc.).

Your system starts with the Grub option permitting to install the system! Use it.

refracta installer uses analog to refracta snapshot scripts to be found in /etc and /usr/lib!

[oui]

You don't need some save file at all!

You bind your save partition, if you want, fully normally with the usual linux method using the registration of that partition in /etc/fastab !

before that, create an empty dir named "0" in your /home/user !

and not forget to set that dir in the exclude list !

Ex.:

#
UUID=5685fe3d-d0c1-4edc-8c1e-2c1eb2333333 /home/user/0/ ext4 defaults 0 2

This can be on a stick

You find easily the UUID's in gparted. Mark the partition and use the item "Informations"!

[Clarity]

Hello @oui I remember your earlier project. Back then, I ran into problems with Refracta.

It is my 'understanding' that Refracta is the in base of one of the forum's PUP; namely puppex-jammy64-uefi-628mb-220630

If so, this would negate any need to install refracta, and allow any user to go directly to the build step.

Would you review and post if you feel it reasonable...either on that thread or here in the forum? .... time permitting, of course.

It could be considered as a building platform...correct? ... or a collaboration between you and its author.

[oui]

thank you very much clarity for the link.

I look myself about each day at the site https://extix.se but did until now never read that Exton is directly at the Puppy forum. I did try about all his builds since months and months (excepted the last Deepin! No question, I am a Deepin fan for a long time, but my big Deepin full install is actually crashed. Why? I did erase a partition the same day I did make my last Deepin upgrade to the actual .3! As usual, all installations become fool as the order of partitions changes and as the swap UUID is changed. I have also other problem actually with Deepin as to try a new live version...).

And he did give me in his comments at his web pages the idea to remake those Puppy's especially with Devuan because of the architecture of Devuan without systemd! Also the ROLLING linux is the idea from Exton. Thank you Exton.

At the other end, I continue to be looking for a way to build Puppy again from Scratch as Barry did always make and as he did give us instructions for that until about Puppy 4. ... Puppy 5.

The next approach for that would be using the exclusive distro named Nutyx. The actual Nutyx is the LFS made accessible as binaries system. Before that, it was a LFS derivate inviting it's users to build herself all the distro with easier scripts. It was really easy, I did made that. But after the base, the build did continue per hand and this was difficult for the packages hat I will like a small wine, tesseract-ocr, merkaartor, marble-qt etc. Thierry Nuttens, the father of Nutyx (to see in the Name of the distro) did have no interest in the past because his main development were not essentially applications but the build of a wide base with a great number of surfaces like lxde, xfce4, kde, etc, etc. For me is JWM always ideal, no question!

Perhaps can Exton really perform a Puppy made out Nutyx because Nutyx is the some kind of connector to LFS and BLFS!

That is my middle term vision of a small very active Puppy like Linux!