Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

At the moment I'm only asking this question out of curiosity, so it's all hypothetical for now, but here we go. As I have a number of machines to play around with it stands to reason they don't all need to be set up to do the same tasks.

Let's say I was to have one machine that was only to be used for a few basic tasks i.e. playing music files, viewing pictures, watching occasional short video clips (music videos and family stuff, longest is about 11 minutes), and typing letters. Maybe an odd game such as Aisleriot Solitaire. NO BROWSER, machine not even connected to internet. Anyone under the age of 30 can be excused for thinking that computers don't work if they're not connected to the internet.

What would be the oldest Puppy I could still use, and how low resources could I get away with? I would still want comfortable usage, not a struggle. I can think of some quite sensible reasons for keeping some of these tasks completely separate from my internet browsing. Not least of which is interruptions (I think they're officially called "notifications").

precise version 5 would be my suggestion although there are countless pups out there.
Link below is to the old forum which may provide some useful information for you.
https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewfor ... 3799c5a828

I would agree with Precise. Media (music/video) works well. If you make a few small upgrades, you can even run the latest Palemoon 32- bit browser available with Precise!

@stevie pup :-

Yah. Precise is kinda regarded as the "go-to" Pup for older machines, and as amethyst says, only needs a few small upgrades to run the newest 32-bit Pale Moon. I'm not entirely certain about Pale Moon's glibc requirements; not sure if it's 2.15 - if it is then Precise is fine as-is - or if it's 2.17. If it's 2.17 I've got a "tweaked" Pale Moon 'portable'; based on watchdog's pioneering work in this area, it uses the glibc 2.28 from DPup Buster, and allows operation with much older Puppies.

But that's kind of a moot point, since you say you don't want a browser anyway.

I'd still recommend Precise, for the simple reason that it's 'buntu-based, and that means the dependency "cupboard" is well-stocked, OOTB. Go for the last version, Precise 5.7.1. There's plenty of Slackos about from this era, too, but Slackos tend to need a lot more TLC just to get some of the most basic apps working. It's a legacy of its parent, Slackware, whose policy has always been to give you JUST enough to get you up-and-running.....and after that, it's up to you to get stuff working. The stuff's all available in the Slackware repos, but installation is all down to manual lib-chasing and figuring out what you actually need.

(Blame Patrick Volkerding for that; Slackware was his baby when it launched back in '93, and almost 30 years on, the distro's ethos & vision has steadfastly remained the same. "Stuck in the past?" Perhaps.....but notwithstanding that observation, to this day it still remains an incredibly popular distro, with a large - and very loyal! - user-base.)

Mike.

The oldest of all puppies you can get is, as pointed out by @666philb, v0-v1. Just in case you want to use them, here is the link to them-
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-0-1/

Ditto what's been posted.
But noting that Internet access isn't required, I would go with Teenpup*. It is a beautiful operating system that was based on Puppy 2.14 but fleshed out by John Biles to satisfy the demands of his 'Teenagers'. See Screenshot, https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_teenpup.
John Biles last rebuilt it in 2017. It is still available for download, http://linux.softpedia.com/progDownload ... 31563.html or the slightly older versions from the first link.

-=-=-=-=
* Some of John Biles' versions appeared under the name LegacyOS. These are also still available. https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_Legacy_OS

https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_teenpup

Thank you for the responses. I may have a "vintage" laptop coming my way in the near future. I don't know any details about the spec, except it's currently running Windows XP. That combined with the fact I'm going to have some more time on my hands when I retire in a few months, is why I raised the question.

Iv'e got a 2005 vintage laptop, 1.3Ghz processor, 512Mbytes of ram.
I use it primarily for internet radio but it does play videos and can surf the net using Mike Walsh's Firefox ESR portable.
The OS I use is Dpup stretch and it works very well.

Regards
Phil.

stevie pup wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:25 am

Thank you for the responses. I may have a "vintage" laptop coming my way in the near future. I don't know any details about the spec, except it's currently running Windows XP. That combined with the fact I'm going to have some more time on my hands when I retire in a few months, is why I raised the question.

Windows XP is actually very good with old hardware especially if you are not going to use it for the internet. I have a dual-boot with Windows XP on my machine. Mainly use Windows for scanning but if your Windows have VLC, it will work great for media. There is even a guy who still produces new Palemoon versions for XP, it's called MyPal and works great.

amethyst wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 11:31 am

stevie pup wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:25 am

Thank you for the responses. I may have a "vintage" laptop coming my way in the near future. I don't know any details about the spec, except it's currently running Windows XP. That combined with the fact I'm going to have some more time on my hands when I retire in a few months, is why I raised the question.

Windows XP is actually very good with old hardware especially if you are not going to use it for the internet. I have a dual-boot with Windows XP on my machine. Mainly use Windows for scanning but if your Windows have VLC, it will work great for media. There is even a guy who still produces new Palemoon versions for XP, it's called MyPal and works great.

This is the same guy who joined up here at the Forum last year.....and who dropped a nonetheless 'welcome' bombshell by providing, out-of-the-blue & unasked-for, not just ONE but THREE new SSE-only builds of what he calls "NewMoon".

Member Fenyo

Thread:- viewtopic.php?p=39503#top

"Fenyo" and MyPal's builder, "Feodor2" are - to the best of my knowledge - one and the same person. (I have my suspicions about our own "Feodor" - y'know, the guy with the bunny avatar?)

Mike.

@mikewalsh
Yes, could be. However, MyPal does work well with XP. I have it installed and it works well.

@amethyst :-

Despite not having used Windows (XP) for the best part of a decade, I still have an a/c over at the XP Forums. A good part of the discussion over there centres around finding browsers that still work with XP; naturally, MyPal gets plenty of mentions.

That, and another 'zilla-based browser called Centaury.....and Firefox 52.9.0 ESR. They're the only 3 that will still work, and FF is already nearly 2 years into a quite complicated registry 'hack' to keep it functional.

From time to time I suggest using a Puppy-on-a-stick for online work, and continuing to use XP offline for everything else. To say some of the responses I get are "snotty" would be putting it mildly....although some of the more enlightened members have seen the light, and are already using lightweight Linux distros for internet-facing stuff. Others have sworn to continue using XP till they themselves are pushing up daisies.

Can't understand the reaction, Nic. It's only an OS, when all's said & done. After nearly 13 years with it, I was more than ready to kick it into touch when EOL rolled round in April 2014.....by that time I was, quite frankly, fed-up to the back teeth with it......although I will admit that even now, there are some things it's still really good at.

(*shrug*)

Mike.

This topic is starting out like saying "I have a car".

What tires should I put on it?

No useful info provided.

The computer specs are really what is needed, to give you 100% good advice!

You could have a computer, with hardware, a older version of Puppy, may not be able to run.
The needed drivers and firmware, may not be in the specific Puppy version.

@bigpup :-

Heh. I get where you're coming from, believe me. Trouble is, mate, that not every question posed on these forums CAN be answered via detailed, precisely targeted instructions. You know that as well as I do.

Often members will pose "what-if" types of questions. The best we can do in such cases is to offer "maybe, maybe not" advice/suggestions. Usually, those members are like as not "testing the waters" with regard to something coming up in the near future, so they're probably not yet expecting detailed answers anyway..... Some times, folks just like to chat with like-minded individuals over possible scenarios. Some regard the community as like an extended family, y'know?

Obviously, nearer the time more detailed information will help all concerned.....those seeking advice, as well as those giving it. There's no mileage in rapping folks over the knuckles just because they don't always follow the rules "to-the-letter" every step of the way. I have it on good authority that several members enjoy the Forum's atmosphere precisely because we're that wee bit more "laid-back" than most....

C'est la vie, mate..!

Mike.

On second thought, I'd suggest one of the Puppys for which norgo has published an SMplayer --see this thread viewtopic.php?p=250#p250. This thread viewtopic.php?t=1212 will also provide information about downloading youtube videos.

Except for the dangers and inability to access the internet, as amethyst's suggests, XP can pretty much handle most of your needs. I especially like Atlantis as a word-processor, one of amethyst's recommendation. Add MikeWalsh's recommendation of photoscape for graphic processing. But FWIW, there are versions of gimp and LibreOffice --pretty much an application to do anything-- which will run under XP.
Dual-booting will give you a Puppy for basic internet needs.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 8:27 pm

@bigpup :-

Heh. I get where you're coming from, believe me. Trouble is, mate, that not every question posed on these forums CAN be answered via detailed, precisely targeted instructions. You know that as well as I do.

Often members will pose "what-if" types of questions. The best we can do in such cases is to offer "maybe, maybe not" advice/suggestions. Usually, those members are like as not "testing the waters" with regard to something coming up in the near future, so they're probably not yet expecting detailed answers anyway..... Some times, folks just like to chat with like-minded individuals over possible scenarios. Some regard the community as like an extended family, y'know?

Obviously, nearer the time more detailed information will help all concerned.....those seeking advice, as well as those giving it. There's no mileage in rapping folks over the knuckles just because they don't always follow the rules "to-the-letter" every step of the way. I have it on good authority that several members enjoy the Forum's atmosphere precisely because we're that wee bit more "laid-back" than most....

C'est la vie, mate..!

Mike.

Precisely Mike, you've hit the nail right on the head there. My opening line in the OP was something like "I'm only asking this out of curiosity for now". IF this machine does come into my possession (and there's no guarantee) I will then find out all it's specs, and if necessary ask further questions. And if this particular laptop doesn't come my way, then any suggestions made here may well be useful in the future. So yes, it was a "what if" question.

I've always got my eyes and ears open for old, unwanted stuff, so I may well come across something else. Did you know it's estimated that here in the UK there are around 30 million old, unused and unwanted computers in cupboards, lofts, garages, etc, but in a lot of cases the owners won't part with them because they're terrified that someone's going to harvest all their personal info from the hard drives? A shame really that all those are going to waste.

I also note that despite clearly stating "internet not required" a number of responses have been referring to browsers! I can't help wonder if this is just a reflection on modern trends, and people just can't separate computers from the internet? I'm aware that some use the internet all the time, but I don't. After all, computers were around years before the internet.

In addition, it looks like one or two posters are suggesting I leave XP on it, in other words just switch it on and use it. Now where would the fun be in that?

@stevie pup :-

Heh. Yeah, I started talking about browsers myself - following up on what amethyst was saying - then checked myself, as you probably noticed. I used the ancient Dell Inspiron (which is nearly 20 years old now. Can't quite believe it, somehow!) for several years as a standalone, graphics workstation. That's all I did. It had XP Home on it, and all I did was run graphics apps!

Didn't take it online till it was nearly 10 years old. It was Ethernet only, and we never got broadband till 2011. Prior to that it was a case of plugging a long lead from the wall-socket straight into the modem port. I couldn't be arsed with all that. When we got broadband, I invested in a wee TP-Link wireless dongle, and went online properly. I've still got that dongle, AND it still works 100%!

But yes; 'what-if' scenarios still merit discussion. I think dear old bigpup's got all excited over being a mod, but it shows that he's got no prior experience. Never mind; we all had to start somewhere....in my case, my first staff experience was on a much larger, busier forum. A case of getting thrown in at the deep end, methinks, but it was all grist for t'mill...!

Most subjects can be put in a specific 'pigeon-hole', but for this kind of thing, "Users" is something of a catch-all for a lot of otherwise 'general' discussion points.

Mike.

Mike.

@mikewalsh

From time to time I suggest using a Puppy-on-a-stick for online work, and continuing to use XP offline for everything else

Years ago I built a secure XP/Puppy web project. It ran on a 2ghz P4 with 512mb ram. XP was the host and Puppy 4.12 with FIrefox ran in portable virtualbox. Could be installed into XP in about 10 minutes from a USB stick. The user then had a Firefox icon on their desktop, that when clicked opened directly into Firefox (full screen in Puppy). Almost seamless for the users and isolated XP from the web.

wizard

wizard wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 9:57 pm

@mikewalsh

From time to time I suggest using a Puppy-on-a-stick for online work, and continuing to use XP offline for everything else

Years ago I built a secure XP/Puppy web project. It ran on a 2ghz P4 with 512mb ram. XP was the host and Puppy 4.12 with FIrefox ran in portable virtualbox. Could be installed into XP in about 10 minutes from a USB stick. The user then had a Firefox icon on their desktop, that when clicked opened directly into Firefox (full screen in Puppy). Almost seamless for the users and isolated XP from the web.

wizard

"Portable" Virtualbox, huh? Hmm... Now, there's a thought.

(You can see where my mind's going, can't ya? )

Mike.

one or two posters are suggesting I leave XP on it, in other words just switch it on and use it. Now where would the fun be in that?
How about best of two worlds? In my case Windows is a necessity. I have an old printer/scanner which does not work with Linux because there is no Linux driver available for that model. Speaking of printing. Is there an application equal to Fineprint in the Linux world? With the latter one can print 4 (or even 8) document pages on 1 page. Great for saving paper if you are running a business. Flyers, etc. come to mind.

amethyst wrote: ↑Sat May 14, 2022 2:37 am

Speaking of printing. Is there an application equal to Fineprint in the Linux world? With the latter one can print 4 (or even 8) document pages on 1 page. Great for saving paper if you are running a business. Flyers, etc. come to mind.

Great question - probably worth a thread on it's own. I think that is what they call n-up printing. I wonder if such a function is built into ghostscript or any of the tools that create pdfs? In cases where the n-up function is not built into a printer driver it may be possible to do within pdf utilities i would have thought.

EDIT: these look interesting:

https://linux.die.net/man/1/pdfnup

https://linuxcommando.blogspot.com/2015 ... e.html?m=1

https://superuser.com/questions/512361/pdf-reverse-n-up

PeasyPDF v4.6 can do n-up printing. I will post a PET version if someone will volunteer to test it.

Yes, keen to test. Currently using Slacko 5.6 and Tahr 6.0.6 derivatives mostly.

Attached.

rcrsn51 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:13 am

Attached.

Thanks. This is a useful function. I am keen to test this further on different files. I have mixed results so far depending on which pdf I am working with. (Some of my pdfs display quite strangely so perhaps not the best test)
Will report back as I try different files.

pdf1:
Printing pages 1-2 via peasypdf results in 2 (originally A4) pages side by side formatted on landscape paper as desired. Excellent!
Printing pages 1-2 direct to printer (Using 2-up from MFC7820 driver) results in the (2 originally A4) pages side by side but formatted on portrait paper so the images are too small to read. (Don't know why)

pdf2:
Printing pages 1-2 via peasypdf results in correct (mostly white) image but page seems offset to the right (excessive left margin) and small amount of data missing from bottom of page. (Excessive top margin). (Does not seem to be related to selection of LTR/A4)
EDIT - printing pages 1-4 on one output page shows page 1 complete (at top left), page 2 (at top right) truncated at right hand side, page 3 (at bottom left) truncated at bottom, and page 4 (at bottom right) truncated at bottom and right hand side). Seems as if images are read in correctly as A4 but outputted to a page whose format is bigger than A4. (hope that makes sense...)
Printing pages 1-2 direct to printer (Using 2-up from MFC7820 driver) results in "negative" image (almost all black) but with correct content (ie full page, no data missing). Not any where near as useful as the peasypdf output.

pdf3:
Peasypdf correctly prints qty 2 incoming A4 pages side by side on an A4 Landscape page. Excellent!
Also tried qty 4 incoming A4 pages and they printed on qty 2 output landscape pages. Excellent!

Question: Could this peasypdf n-up print function be modified to allow "save to file" in pdf format? It currently allows me a choice of CUPS-PDF but that never seems to work. Printing from browser allows "print-to-file" as well as CUPS-PDF and it would be great if peasypdf n-up could do that too - rather than selecting my brother printer which is not always attached.

EDIT These tests were on Tahr606

EDIT2 - Question: Does the "Paper size" option in the peasypdf gui represent the incoming paper size/orientation or the outgoing size/orientation? ie: what do i do if I want to print qty4 incoming A4 portrait pages on one outgoing A4 landscape page? (should the paper size button include an A4L option?? Would it be helpful to have a button to describe incoming page [portrait or landcsape] and a second button for how you want them printed [on portrait paper or landscape paper]?)
{Dont know why A4Landscape was originally called A4R but that is what I learned while i was a copier tech. Why not A4P and A4L to describe Portrait or Landscape paper output?? Seems crazy and confusing to have called it "A4R" instead of "A4L".}

Cool. Why is there not an 8 page per sheet option (works well for flyers, 9 pages per sheet is a bit too small)? Also - 4 sheets per page (portrait) looks okay. Would that be possible and can the numbering of pages be changed (down instead of left to right)? I'll check what other things fineprint can do and report it here, maybe some of that stuff can be implemented (like smart borders, etc.).
Edit: SumatraPDF (running in Wine), renders the PDF in portrait. Great.

Thanks for testing.

PeasyPDF's "Print" function doesn't do any fancy formatting on its own. It just sends the PDF to the "lp" command (which is part of CUPS) using options like "-o number-up".

In my tests, CUPS is usually smart enough to lay out the document correctly using the appropriate portrait/landscape choices. But it may not always be satisfactory.

Regarding "Print to File": this option is part of GTK's printing function, so PeasyPDF is not aware of it. There may be ways to make PeasyPDF send the n-upped document to a file instead of the printer. This would be useful to preview the n-upped document before printing. I will think about this.

Bill

amethyst wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:24 am

Cool. Why is there not an 8 page per sheet option (works well for flyers, 9 pages per sheet is a bit too small)?

Because that's not a choice provided by the lp command. See above.

Would that be possible and can the numbering of pages be changed (down instead of left to right)? I'll check what other things fineprint can do and report it here, maybe some of that stuff can be implemented (like smart borders, etc.).

If you want more control over the formatting, you will need a better program than PeasyPDF.

Looks like Boomaga could be a good alternative for Fineprint. Maybe some kind soul could make a package which works on most Puppys. Here is the tarball (sources). I'm not good at this building business, someone? https://github.com/Boomaga/boomaga/arch ... ter.tar.gz