Is this true? murga puppy forum will be taken down on Nov. 20, 2020

[bigpup]

As I understand.
The old murga puppy forum, is now read only, to still be able to access it, to get what you want from it, and transfer to this forum.

It will be accessible until Nov. 20, 2020, when it will no longer be paid for and will be taken down.
No information is provided, to indicate anything different, will happen.

I am seeing a lot of topics, in this forum, with nothing but links to the old murga puppy forum.
None of the file attachments or information, is now posted in this rockedge puppy forum.
If the murga puppy form does close.
These topics are no longer going to be good.

Does anyone have better info, on exactly what is long term, for the old murga puppy forum?????

[rockedge]

There is work being done to take control of the domain name. The murga forum server itself is secured. A way to continue paying the registration fees for www.murga-linux.com is under way as far as I know. The heart and soul of the murga forum is under our control and is stored in multiple places.

BarryK and a team of others are involved so all hope is not lost.

[Flash]

Bigpup, where did you come up with the exact date of Nov. 20?

[jamesbond]

To add to rockedge's post above: what will expire on 20 Nov (if we cannot take control) is the domain name, "murga-linux.com".
The forum itself will continue to be accessible under the name of the http://oldforum.puppylinux.com so whenever you find a non-working murga-linux.com link, just replace "murga-linux.com" to "oldforum.puppylinux.com" and it will work.

@rockedge I tried to do a search using "site:oldforum.puppylinux.com" and it returns nothing, but "site:murga-linux.com" still shows plenty of results. Perhaps it's a good idea to provide a permanent link somewhere on the forum header or footer pointing to oldforum.puppylinux.com so that:
a) people will know where to find it, and
b) the site will get indexed by search engines
so if all efforts are unsuccessful, at least oldforum.puppylinux.com would have been indexed and people can search on it?

[jamesbond]

Bigpup, where did you come up with the exact date of Nov. 20?

That date comes from me, but you can check it yourself here: https://www.whois.com/whois/murga-linux.com (among many other similar domain checking services).

[Flash]

I saw that date before but didn't know for sure what it meant. I thought it might be renewed automatically. Thanks.

[taersh]

I am seeing a lot of topics, in this forum, with nothing but links to the old murga puppy forum.
None of the file attachments or information, is now posted in this rockedge puppy forum.
If the murga puppy form does close.
These topics are no longer going to be good.

These topics ain't good at all.

Shortly after I registered to this forum I saw topics came up of different stuff created by members who aren't the original developers of programs and puppies. So, I created a topic in "Off-Topic" asking people to wait until these developers/members have registered to this here forum.

But it still seems to going on.

It's creating a mess and also creating lots of work to do for @rockedge to remove these topics, if the old forum goes down the drain.

Instead of doing such topics there should be some effort to get those old members registering to this here forum, continuing their work on this here forum. Probably an additional note at murga-forum to ask old members "please, do register to the new forum and continue your work over there"...

RIP John de Murga & RIP Old Forum.

[jamesbond]

I saw that date before but didn't know for sure what it meant. I thought it might be renewed automatically. Thanks.

Automatic renewal may or may not be enabled depending on how John set it up. If activated it will attempt to charge John's credit card, which most likely will fail. In either case we will lose the domain, unless we really can take it over and pay for it.

So let's cross our finger and hope that Barry manages to convince them that we have the power of attorney over that domain.

@taersh i will add the notice tomorrow.

[Clarity]

Curious...Why dont we just prepay the account? Send money, they apply to the account, the site remains active as the ISP has the system set up to do the renewals when money in the account exceeds what is needed for renewal(s).

Dont know if the avenue is apparent or available.

[wiak]

Shortly after I registered to this forum I saw topics came up of different stuff created by members who aren't the original developers of programs and puppies. So, I created a topic in "Off-Topic" asking people to wait until these developers/members have registered to this here forum.

But it still seems to going on.

It's creating a mess and also creating lots of work to do for @rockedge to remove these topics, if the old forum goes down the drain.

Yes, I find that painful too. If the poster of these non-original-developer threads is the only poster, I 'think' they have the authority to delete the posts themselves, and I wish they would. It is up to the original developers to start threads for the projects they wish to - in fact it is important that others do not do that since we generally expect/rely on the first post of such a thread to be the home base for updates.

EDIT: most disorganised area with above sort of non-original-developer postings seems to be Puppy Derivatives. Really messes things up.

wiak

[darry19662018]

Well that's all very well if said author of app is still with us but if it someone like stu90 then they are not going to come back and the app gets lost.
Also I have started a archive.org page where will upload what I post like makepet so yeah.

I did a thread that had all the screenshot utilities together in one thread. Nice and neat. Sorry don't see how that is doing harm. Especially when I'm trying to find stuff and it is all over the place - now that's a mess

[jamesbond]

I have updated the header of the old forum.
I hope it makes it very clear what the old forum is for and how it can be accessed in the future; as well as redirecting everyone as per @taersh's suggestion.

There is one more thing to say.
The old forum has a link to "THE" alternative forum, http://puppylinux.info.
This new forum doesn't have the link to that forum.

Since there is no discussion on the fate of that alternative forum, I assume that it will still continue to serve as the "alternative" forum and perhaps @rockedge can help to put the link to that alternative forum on here as well, on the header.

Unless, of course, if the community decides otherwise.

[jamesbond]

Curious...Why dont we just prepay the account? Send money, they apply to the account, the site remains active as the ISP has the system set up to do the renewals when money in the account exceeds what is needed for renewal(s).

Dont know if the avenue is apparent or available.

Great idea, we're looking into it.

[taersh]

Well that's all very well if said author of app is still with us but if it someone like stu90 then they are not going to come back and the app gets lost.
Also I have started a archive.org page where will upload what I post like makepet so yeah.

I did a thread that had all the screenshot utilities together in one thread. Nice and neat. Sorry don't see how that is doing harm. Especially when I'm trying to find stuff and it is all over the place - now that's a mess

Who says, who knows, if stu90 or the later stu91 is not coming back?

I think there's nothing wrong in collecting and uploading useful apps to a center storage and to do a topic for that. This won't conflict e.g. stu90/91 when returning and continuing some of his work. Though, topics just containing links to the old forum and/or occupying a Puppy and/or program of a different developer is just not the way to do that. That's all I meant. No offense, no senseless criticism at all.

[darry19662018]

Stu hasn't been around since circa 2011-12 so pretty safe to assume that he has is not coming back.

So I am going to get on and save Puppy's heritage and point out Pups like Pfeco's efforts (WHO BY THE WAY DOESN'T VISIT THIS FORUM OR THE OLD ONE) - NOBODY KNEW ABOUT HIS DEVUAN PUPS - I AND 011001001b highlighted those. Did we make a mess of the derivatives section - NO!

By the way I have corrected threads that just point to Murga and put download links. Anything that makes it easier for the end user to find what they want is what drives me cos the present situtation is bleeding mess - apart from people like Mike Walsh and Ally who have done much to put things in one place - concise and tidy.

[wiak]

I think there's nothing wrong in collecting and uploading useful apps to a center storage and to do a topic for that.

Generally speaking, I think that is true, but depends how it is done. What a developer never wants, are various copies of their app/utility/creation appearing uploaded to different threads (unless they have done that themselves for a purpose or the copy is a reliable archive that clearly identified the nature, old or current, version being stored). That has nothing to do with possessiveness of their baby... most of the apps are open-source licensed anyway. But the last thing developer wants is out-of-date or modified copies (that haven't been renamed as clear forks) floating around - that just causes user-confusion since they may install an older copy by accident and then wonder why it has bugs and so on - developer is generally only keeping track of the original app thread.

But the way darry has centralised the Screenshot apps as a resource is excellent - i.e. the main download source for the apps is linked to (rather than the apps themselves being re-uploaded). Of course, if the original developer has vanished and/or it becomes possible that the 'official' storage location(s) of the apps might vanish, then that's a different matter - then it makes absolute sense to physically transfer the app to a safer accessible location.

I'm also understand very well that darry is doing his best to protect the resources and in the early stages of this forum, when developers were being very slow to adopt it or move their threads over, there was no alternative but to start a new thread so their creations could be discussed by this new forum community. My only issue is for when the original developers do register on this new forum - then it really is best that they be the ones to start the relevant thread for their creation, since, as I said, that first post is the place where new versions pretty much always get announced by the developer. Most of the distros darry has posted about in Derivatives currently have no developer starting threads about them and so they would become unknown were it not for darry's effort to publish information and links about them, and I applaud that effort. But I feel it is important that if the original developer appears then these posts need to be removed should the developer start their own thread about the same resource - that's all I was talking about on that matter. For example, Raspbian Buster has a subforum specially created for it now under Mainline - it's an official Pup isn't it? But when a user clicks on that expecting to find information they currently find nothing is in there!!! But despite Raspbian Pup being an official original development we currently find the only thread about it under Puppy Derivatives. So what I want to see in that case is that that thread gets moved under Mainline -> Raspbian Buster, and also with the posts re-organised so first post is from 01micko since he is its lead developer and though he wasn't registered here at the time that thread was absolutely reasonably created, he is now.

I don't know the developer present or otherwise maintenance status of the other distros whose threads are currently placed under Puppy Derivatives - the question I would ask however is: has the original developer/creator of these distros now registered on this forum? If so, then I wish they would start their official thread to support their development - because if they don't that infers development has ceased. The other issue is that some, perhaps many, of the distros in the growing Puppy Derivatives list are actually "Remasters" or "Specialized" and subforums have been created for exactly such distros which are sitting pretty much empty! I'm pretty sure that no-one likes to move other member's threads in case there is a justifiable reason for them being where they were placed. To resolve the situation it would be helpful if the original thread poster sent PM to admin to ask for thread to be moved (and to where) - no point having subforum Remasters or Specialized if distros that fit in there don't get put there...

[wiak]

The reason I have a problem with the way Puppy Derivatives is currently being used:

Historically, Puppy has hundreds of remasters, and tons of specialized single-purpose variations (such as for audio processing). Hence, just like Mainline Pups there is a need to organise these so it doesn't get out of control and the way that can be done, to some extent, is via subforums. Currently there are two subforums that have been made available for use under Puppy Derivatives: Remasters and Specialized. There needs to be at least a few more such subforums; for example, some Puppy Derivatives are not Remasters at all but are build from modified woof-CE recipes, so there should be a woof-CE subforum of Puppy Derivatives (and not just a Puppy Development woof-CE subforum). Whenever a list of distros becomes so long as to make it hard to find anything or to understand it's purpose it becomes better to try and create some new category subforums to help manage them to some extent at least (for example there could be subforums for JWM distos, others for Openbox/LXDE-type distros and so on to help guide users - whatever...). Problem just now is that with such a big list of distros growing under Puppy Derivatives (but not in appropriate 'Remasters' subforum) it fights against the point of having any subforums in there at all. Maybe subforums are wanted or desired in there at all? Well maybe you will think differently later when the list has grown four more times in size???

[perdido]

@wiak

I agree with you. Puppy Derivatives is a mess.
Best to do some deleting and moving sooner rather than later.

-

[Clarity]

@wiak wrote:

...but are build from modified woof-CE recipes, so there should be a woof-CE subforum...

Its a reasonable proposal. I want to expand slightly on what is proposed as it pertains to WoofCE. The distros that members are creating is a combination of the recipes that generate the wonderful work that development creates.

That being said, for those who do create recipes, maybe we need a RECIPE area for those who would post their recipes for others to choose and follow. The area could "lead" users to have a roadmap of how to take a recipe and recreate an ISO/IMG. This would have a double-edged solution as it would allow simple use to create a distro and would allow persons to know how to do the same by viewing the contents of the recipe(s). The community expands and its knowledge matures.

Since joining this forum, there is a wealth of knowledge being tossed around.

The future is NOW! So, good ideas do/can lead to good implementations in the forum.
________________________________________________________________________________
BTW: I have noticed that some releases DO publish the locations of their recipes.

Edit: I just noticed that the definition of this forum area "Instructional HOW-TO's Section" says "Tutorials and recipes/NOT an area for general questions".

1. Would WoofCE recipes land in that already existing area?
2. If so, would developers know to post their recipes there?
3. Or should some other method be expressly used (such as inclusion in the distro announcement)?
4. What would be best for a pathway for users to know where and how to use recipes?