Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

@mikewalsh
@bigpup
@keniv
@HerrBert

How to create bootable media, this is the second topic for helping new users get started with Puppy.

Bigpup, you've created a lot of content on this topic. Would you be willing to make the first draft?

The three common boot techniques are CD, USB and dual boot with MS Windows. I think dual boot with Windows using LICK will be easy and should be its own module. I have one that was used in Friendly-Fossa64 remaster.

Here are some dates and other info that may be useful in formulation for CD and USB:
-dual core cpu's = 2005
-UEFI = 2007
-Secure boot = 2012
-Windows XP & W7 = MBR
-Windows 8 - 11 = UEFI
-Many single core computers, certainly laptops, did not have bios that supported USB boot.

Here are test of USB creation tools that were run when creating Friendly-Fossa64 remaster. Mike has suggested Unetbootin as a candidate, unfortunately my test showed it does not produce a UEFI bootable drive from at least fossapup64. Some of you who have read the documentation for Friendly-Fossa64 saw that I recommended Unetbootin to create it's USB. That only worked because the EFI directory was included pre-built in the remaster.

Etcher was briefly tested below, but quickly eliminated.

Target Users, who will be interested:
-those with old computers they want to use
-those with old MS Windows versions
-those with MS Windows that won't boot
-those that can't afford new MS Windows versions
-those who are just tired of MS
-those who would like a simple dual boot MS Windows and Linux
-those who would like to try Linux without doing partitioning or a large install
-those who have tried other Linux versions and don't like constantly entering their password
-those who have tried other Linux versions and would like something simpler
-those who would like to run an operating system from a CD, SDCARD or USB
-the curious
-those who like to experiment

NOTE: This topic has been transferred to "Getting Started and System Requirements" at the top of the forum.
Renamed as: "Making a CD or USB for your First Boot"
You may still leave comments and suggestions here.

After giving this some thought I think it should be broken into two separate topics, one for creation and one for the actual booting. Keeping these short and concise should give us better implementation and adoption.

In the US and UK there are Ebay sellers who offer Puppy CD's or USB's. Should we also mention that here?

So here's a start on creation.

*********************************Draft Making a CD or USB for your first boot **************************

If you are using a computer that meets the system criteria in General System Requirements viewtopic.php?t=5127, then we suggest you try one of the Puppy's produced in the last couple of years first.

The three common ways to boot Puppy are from CD, USB or dual boot with MS Windows. Here we will
discuss making a bootable CD or USB.

Older computers will be limited to booting from a CD. If your computer is any of these you will
most likely need a CD to boot.

-made before 2005
-CPU is a single core ("Netbook" computers are one notable exception that are single core and USB bootable)

NOTE: Newer computers that have a CD/DVD drive can also use a CD to boot.

What you will need to make a bootable CD:
-A computer running MS Windows or some version of Linux, with a CD Writer drive.
-CD burning software, if you don't aready have this, try one of these free programs
-----MS Windows - Imgburn, (tested) available here https://www.imgburn.com/index.php?act=download
-----Linux - Brasero, check your official repository
-A blank writable CD

Download the Puppy Linux ISO file of your choice, then use the burning software to make
the bootable CD.

What you will need to make a bootable USB:
-A computer running MS Windows or some version of Linux.
-USB installing software, try one of these free programs
-----MS Windows - Rufus, (tested) available here https://rufus.ie/en/
-----Linux - check your official repository
-A blank USB, minimum 2gb (you should erase any existing files)

Download the Puppy Linux ISO file of your choice, then use the USB installing software to make
the bootable USB.

NOTE: There are many USB installing programs, however some of them will not produce a Puppy USB
that can be booted on computers made in 2007 or newer without making changes to the bios setup.

Need more help? Join the forum and post your questions in Beginners Help.

In the CD install.

I would add when using the burning program.
Make sure to select option to burn image, burn ISO image, or something similarly worded option.
I see too many posts about burning the ISO to the CD and it not working.
Turns out they just burned the ISO file on the CD.
Burn image or burn ISO image, takes all the files inside the ISO, and burns them to the CD.
You end up with a CD, with a bunch of different files, on it.

NOTE: There are many USB installing programs, however some of them will not produce a Puppy USB
that can be booted on computers made in 2007 or newer without making changes to the bios setup.

This is mainly caused, by the Puppy version ISO, not having the needed boot loader files, for secure boot enabled, on the computers, with UEFI bios.
Secure boot enabled, needs a UEFI compatible boot loader, and a way to install the Puppy security key, on the computer.
The newer or newest Puppies, have the needed UEFI compatible boot loaders.
Non that I know of, have the Puppy security key, and program to install it.

The best recommendation.
Go into the computers UEFI bios setup.
Disable secure boot, enable legacy boot or CSM, or both.

Do not worry about doing this.
This is you, booting an operating system, you choose to use.

@wizard :-

I'll make suggestions for a few additions here, if I may?

-----------------------------------------

- In the CD install section (for Linux), also mention XFBurn. I've used this successfully in the past. Brasero has, shall we say, reported incidences of burnt bootable ISOs failing to boot properly. There were many reports of this on the Ubuntu Forums, several years ago, though this may have been fixed by now. Never hurts to have multiple options.

(Nero's a good one, though not always easy to find online. Norgo let me have a copy of Nero for Linux a couple of years back, which works brilliantly, but it's not generally available in Linux repositories.)

*************************

- One other, which always used to work nearly fool-proof under Windows, was BurnCDCC, from Terabyte Unlimited.

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downl ... -software/

Second item down. It's still available, and is probably the simplest way there is to burn an ISO under Windows, because this adheres to the Unix principle.....of doing one thing only, yet doing it to the best of its ability. It's single-minded; it burns an ISO image to an optical disc, and that's ALL it does. Nothing else.....so no complications with multiple options.

.....or https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downl ... rncdcc.zip will give a direct download.

Like my portables, once unzipped, it'll run from anywhere.

(I'll second what bigpup says about the burn speed. It's one of the most common mistakes newbies make.)

----------------------------------------

- In the USB install section (Linux), DO mention UNetbootin. Again, I've used this successfully to produce a fully-functional Pup....and this one is cross-platform, so would also work under Windows.

Otherwise, looks good so far..!

Mike.

wizard wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:44 pm

The three common boot techniques are CD, USB and dual boot with MS Windows.

Well, you are discussing one of the most difficult areas of documentation (in terms of being user-install-level so generally the audience are not computer developers). Funnily enough I am in the middle of explaining to my two young sons (10 and 16 years old) how to install one of my WeeDog Linux distros (so same general issues involved as any other frugally installed distro).

But, first method I am discussing is neither CD, USB or dual boot with MS Windows. You have missed one, which is boot alone from hard drive (no MS Windows on it...). I would accept however, that 'boot from USB' tends to be the same overall as 'boot from internal hard disk' since, for example, a USB flash stick is effectively being used as an external hard disk (with usb interface).

Nevertheless I mention that boot from internal hard disk alternative because that tends to be the main one I use always. Main issue in this special common case is that the machine being installed to has no working OS already on it.

So what I am explaining to my sons are the nitty gritty details involved in:

Installing distro onto a machine that has a hard drive but one that is empty and not yet partitioned nor formatted.
This involves quite a lot of work and the help of an already running distro - usually temporarily booting something like Puppy from an already working usb install and then configuring the hard drive appropriately and installing grub somehow - be that BIOS or EFI. An alternative approach is when you need to take the empty hard drive out of a machine and temporarily connect it to another computer that has an OS already running on it that you use to help you do the install.

The hardest part really, is that of getting grub onto the system. Once you have grub (in whatever flavour you are using) it becomes pretty easy (though a lot of steps involved) to explain the procedure to make a frugal install (for any distro be that Puppy or Dog).

Overall, I'd say this level of documentation requires several very focussed tutorial documents (best supported by videos). Always difficult to do well, but worth the time and effort involved of course.

Main overall problem then becomes that the procedure can at times be very specific to a particular distro, but most steps apply to all (so best to keep the information as generally useful as possible).

@bigpup
There seems to be a wide variation in what and how USB installer programs work, for example:

bionicpup32-8.0+28-uefi.iso contains the efi.img file
fossapup64-9.5.iso does not contain the efi.img file

Unetbootin will not create a UEFI bootable USB from either ISO

Rufus WILL create a UEFI bootable USB from either ISO + can create a hybrid boot

So Rufus is supplying its own EFI boot files.

Thanks
wizard

wizard wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:37 am

@bigpup
There seems to be a wide variation in what and how USB installer programs work, for example:

bionicpup32-8.0+28-uefi.iso contains the efi.img file
fossapup64-9.5.iso does not contain the efi.img file

Unetbootin will not create a UEFI bootable USB from either ISO

Rufus WILL create a UEFI bootable USB from either ISO + can create a hybrid boot

So Rufus is supplying its own EFI boot files.

There is indeed a lot of variation in how things are done. I believe one method should be emphasized as default recommended, which means picking a default method that most users can use (be they working on a host Windows OS or a host Linux OS). But then, the other methods should be provided as alternatives that some may find more useful (for example LICKS for dual-boot Windows users).

The most generic of the above may be Unetbootin (advantage of there being MS Windows and Linux versions and quite small install), but has some issues including not being most user-friendly, and not by default provided in base Puppy Linux distro installs.

Puppy Linux provides its own EFI boot utils (frugal installer - forget the program name - by gyrog I think), so that is an essential - but has the issue it doesn't account for all the scenarios you want to document.

As far as I recall (I could be wrong and haven't recently checked), Rufus only runs on Windows machines so for Linux-only users would not be relevant.

There is indeed the 'special' alternative of using the likes of a specially prepared Ventoy or SG2D usb stick, which is worth including in any such docs, but Clarity has already promoted these methods big time so nothing more needing said in this thread about them I'd say (but should be included in any related boot method docs for sure).

I'm only commenting because I'm in the middle of similar explanations to my sons, as I already explained; I have nothing further to add though since am not writing any such docs.

From "Draft Making a CD or USB for your first boot".

then we suggest you try one of the Puppy's produced in the last couple of years first

For new users I think it might be helpful if we suggest a couple of example pups here with links to their download link. I suggested a couple earlier but these are just my preferences as I find them easy and intuitive to use.
@bigpup

I would add when using the burning program.
Make sure to select option to burn image, burn ISO image, or something similarly worded option.
I see too many posts about burning the ISO to the CD and it not working.
Turns out they just burned the ISO file on the CD.

I agree with this. I have done just that. When I started I did not know how to burn an iso.

Regards,

Ken.

TOO ALL
In the US and UK there are Ebay sellers who offer Puppy CD's or USB's. Should we also mention that here?

@mikewalsh
Like the look of burncdcc and will test. Also like and use Unetbootin, but it will not make a Puppy UEFI USB.
Have no experience with Brasero, but it was recommended often on the net, will test xfburn

@wiak
Sentence should have read "The three common FIRST boot techniques are CD, USB and dual boot with MS Windows

You have missed one, which is boot alone from hard drive (no MS Windows on it...).

Nope, you've gotten just a little ahead, this section is just about creating a first boot media. The next will be on actually booting. Then the third will be about installing, which will include the bare metal install, dual boot, etc. Will use your input in those topics.
Please continue to follow the project and provide input.

@keniv
I agree about the distributions and like both dpup stretch and fossapup64, but fossa is not a UEFI
ISO, there are lot of pitfalls and "gothchas" in this. Lots of iterations to test.

Thanks to all
wizard

@wizard

In the US and UK there are Ebay sellers who offer Puppy CD's or USB's. Should we also mention that here?

I would say yes to these provided prices are reasonable and thus they would not be seen as a ripoff. I would suggest that a caveat stating that the forum has no commercial link with these sites might be worthwhile. I think we have to keep in mind that some of our target new users will never have installed any kind of OS. I would guess that if they come from windows they will have used machines with windows preinstalled. Anything that can get them from there to a working version of puppy linux in as painless a way as possible we should consider supporting.

I agree about the distributions and like both dpup stretch and fossapup64, but fossa is not a UEFI
ISO, there are lot of pitfalls and "gothchas" in this. Lots of iterations to test.

Yeah, I take your point on that. Would what we are suggesting are the target machine be UEFI? I'm using one which would fit the spec and it's not UEFI but I accept that new users might want to install puppy on better machines than what we are suggesting and I guess many of these would be UEFI.

there are lot of pitfalls and "gothchas" in this

I think that says it all.

Ken.

@keniv

are the target machine be UEFI

Yes, check the first post, UEFI hit in 2007. UEFI complicates things a lot, so unless we want to really narrow the scope we're stuck with it.

Thanks
wizard

@keniv :-

Ken, I take your point about UEFI machines; as wizard says,the standard HAS been around for many years now, though it probably didn't become a universal fitment across the board until perhaps 2012/13. I think you CAN say, without fear of contradiction, that any machine from the last decade will definitely have all the UEFI 'hoopla' installed, along with the attendant need for Linux "workarounds".

As an example, this new HP rig of mine is a recent HP Pavilion midi-tower, from 2019, with UEFI, the TPM module that Windows 11 demands, and came with Win 10 pre-installed.....which was the very first thing I erased (with extreme prejudice!) Be that as it may, I run the entire kennels in 'legacy' mode, with all the FastBoot/SecureBoot junk turned off.

And everything works fine. There WILL, however, be many people who wish to dual-boot with Windows, retaining all the UEFI stuff as-is.....necessary, because Windows won't boot up otherwise. Similarly, if I wanted to, say, run a recent version of Ubuntu or Mint, I would have to go into the BIOS each time and reset to UEFI mode, because they now won't have it any other way.....

It's a bloody minefield, and is still very much distro-specific as to what the individual dev teams have decided to support. So unfortunately, UEFI support/booting instructions are very definitely going to be needed if Puppy is going to remain relevant in this modern age.

(*shrug*)

Mike.

@mikewalsh

(with extreme prejudice!)

made me laugh

wizard

See post #1 for an added paragraph on Target Users

Hybrid Boot = can boot on both MBR and UEFI configured systems (users will have both)

After a full day of testing CD & USB tools, the CD tools listed are small, simple, and hybrid boot. Thanks @mikewalsh .

No Linux USB hybrid tool was found, this puts another fork in the decision tree, but the listed tools do work.

One possible solution for the Linux USB hybrid issue would be to use remasters of specified 32bit and 64bit distros. This would allow Unetbootin to be used as the single Linux tool to make a hybrid boot USB.

Need feedback on this.

Other possible pluses for using a remaster:
-we can change the desktop (curb appeal)
-we can add user friendly help files

Examples of this can be seen here:
viewtopic.php?t=709&start=190 pg20 post3
and here:
viewtopic.php?t=4681 pg1 post1

********************************Draft2 Making a CD or USB for your first boot*************************
If you are using a computer that meets the system criteria in General System Requirements viewtopic.php?t=5127, then we suggest you try Dpup Stretch 7.5 for 32bit computers or Fossapup64 9.5 for 64bit computers first.

If you don't want to attempt to create your own CD or USB and don't have someone who can help you we suggest you try Ebay. Search "puppy linux cd or usb", several of the sellers offer to create a version of your choice.
DISCLAIMER - the Puppy Linux Forum is not affiliated with any Ebay seller.

The three common ways to do your first boot with Puppy are from CD, USB or dual boot with MS Windows. Here we will discuss making a bootable CD or USB.

Older computers will be limited to booting from a CD. If your computer is any of these you will
most likely need a CD to boot.

-made before 2005
-CPU is a single core ("Netbook" computers are one notable exception that are single core and USB bootable)

NOTE: Newer computers that have a CD/DVD drive can also use a CD to boot.

What you will need to make a bootable CD:
-A computer running MS Windows or some version of Linux, with a CD Writer drive.
-CD burning software, if you don't already have this, try one of these free programs
-----MS Windows - BurnCDCC*, (tested) available here https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downl ... -software/ *BurnCDCC - set speed slider to CD 4X
-----Linux - XFBurn, (tested) check your official repository
-A blank writable CD

Download the Puppy Linux ISO file of your choice, then use the burning software to make
the bootable CD.

What you will need to make a bootable USB:
-A computer running MS Windows or some version of Linux.
-USB installing software, try one of these free programs
-----MS Windows - Rufus, (tested) available here https://rufus.ie/en/

If you are making the USB with a Linux computer you have to know if the target computer is
MBR or UEFI boot. Read the MBR or UEFI topic for help if needed.

-----Linux UEFI - Rosa Image Writer, (tested) available here http://wiki.rosalab.ru/en/index.php/ROSA_ImageWriter
-----Linux MBR - Unetbootin, (tested) available here https://unetbootin.github.io/linux_download.html
-A blank USB, minimum 2gb (you should erase any existing files)

Download the Puppy Linux ISO file of your choice, then use the USB installing software to make
the bootable USB.

ALTERNATE PROGRAMS:
There are many other CD burning and USB installing programs, however, you will probably find they require more knowledge and more settings to use. Worse, some of them cannot produce a Puppy USB that can be booted on some computers. We highly recommend you use one of the tested programs for best results.

Need more help? Join the forum and post your questions in Beginners Help.

@mikewalsh

And everything works fine. There WILL, however, be many people who wish to dual-boot with Windows, retaining all the UEFI stuff as-is.....necessary, because Windows won't boot up otherwise. Similarly, if I wanted to, say, run a recent version of Ubuntu or Mint, I would have to go into the BIOS each time and reset to UEFI mode, because they now won't have it any other way.....

I think your right. I think that the most likely scenario, particularly if new users are going to use machines that are more modern than the target machines mentioned before, that they will want to dual boot, which ever puppy they try, with windows. This might be a naive suggestion but could we include a puppy that will run on these UEFI machines to the list of recommended pups if we are still going to have such a list. I realise this would mean new users would have to know they had such a machine. Is there a way they could determine this via windows. I am assuming that if they wish to dual boot with windows that they already have a working copy of windows. I am afraid I can't determine this for myself as I don't either a copy of windows or a UEFI machine. I did install @fredx181's "bookworm" the other day. I noticed the .iso contained an EFI folder. I made a manual frugal install and did not include this folder. I know this is a dog and not a pup but is it possible to do something similar with a pup. I realise we probably don't want new users to be attempting manual frugal installs. I apologise for my ignorance of UEFI but as I've already said I don't have a machine with UEFI.

Regards,

Ken.

@wizard :-

Hell. Never even thought about ROSA.

I have both 32-bit & 64-bit varieties of this; neat, simple wee thing. I couldn't vouch for its UEFI install capabilities, however; I've only ever used it once, and that was for Barry's EasyOS.....and, as stated, I run the kennels in legacy mode.

What did you think of BurnCDCC? Pretty straight-forward, ain't it? And, er.....XFBurn? Impressions?

Mike.

@keniv

they will want to dual boot This might be a naive suggestion but could we include a puppy that will run on these UEFI machines

This has already been done with the LICK installer, no special Pup required, and we will cover that in the topic "Dual booting with Windows"

Thanks
wizard

@mikewalsh

What did you think of BurnCDCC? Pretty straight-forward, ain't it? And, er.....XFBurn? Impressions?

Great finds, just what is needed for new users, simple as possible.

Thanks
wizard

@wizard
Sorry, I've never had to use LICK installer so did not know this. Still all to the good if it overcomes the problem.

Regards,

Ken.

@rockedge

Rock, would there be any issues with hosting the install programs we recommend on the forum? Thinking this would insure availability going forward. Total size for all of them about 20mb.

Thanks
wizard

@wizard No problem at all hosting these files on the forum's server. Plenty of room for them.

wizard wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:44 pm

Target Users, who will be interested:
-those with old computers they want to use
-those with old MS Windows versions
-those with MS Windows that won't boot
-those that can't afford new MS Windows versions
-those who are just tired of MS
-those who would like a simple dual boot MS Windows and Linux
-those who would like to try Linux without doing partitioning or a large install
-those who have tried other Linux versions and don't like constantly entering their password
-those who have tried other Linux versions and would like something simpler
-those who would like to run an operating system from a CD, SDCARD or USB
-the curious
-those who like to experiment

adding to an exceptional list:
-the puppy theme
-all in RAM

A user in Windows with no prior Linux would have a much easier time creating a Pendrive UUI boot.

(I don't like to claim unpopular personal observations because it's like climbing a hill, but that is one.)

The menus beg user-friendly names reworking. I can post mine later.

I also believe everyone would use desktop launcher folders if they were standard. What this is like is, imagine a Multimedia folder on the standard desktop or in a 2nd tray and you launched mpv or FFConvert from it instead of the menu. It's the fastest launch short of a direct desktop icon, with far more apps at your disposal and an uncluttered desktop.

Up about eight post at Draft2 I proposed the following and would like your input on the idea since it could accomplish multiple things for the user.

No Linux USB hybrid tool was found, this puts another fork in the decision tree, but the listed tools do work.

One possible solution for the Linux USB hybrid issue would be to use remasters of specified 32bit and 64bit distros. This would allow Unetbootin to be used as the single Linux tool to make a hybrid boot USB.

Other possible pluses for using a remaster:
-we can change the desktop (curb appeal)
-we can add user friendly help files

Thanks
wizard

@wizard
I've got a little lost with this so I am now hoping to catch up.

One possible solution for the Linux USB hybrid issue would be to use remasters of specified 32bit and 64bit distros. This would allow Unetbootin to be used as the single Linux tool to make a hybrid boot USB.

Need feedback on this.

Other possible pluses for using a remaster:
-we can change the desktop (curb appeal)
-we can add user friendly help files

Examples of this can be seen here:
viewtopic.php?t=709&start=190 pg20 post3
and here:
viewtopic.php?t=4681 pg1 post1

I think the idea of a special remaster, particularly for those coming from windows, is a good one. On looking at the first link I see that the browser that is being used in bionic32 8.0 is Palemoon 29.4.4. I know there is an issue with the availability of 32bit browsers in terms of continuing support and keeping them up to date. However, I think Palemoon would seem unfamiliar to a windows user. I think windows users might have used or at least heard of Firefox but I don't remember if 32bit Firefox is still supported. I also know there is a linux version of Edge. Is this the same Edge as used in windows and if so is the 32bit version still supported. I think new users would see the browser as important.
I also think the idea of Friendly-Fossa64 is a good one and I see from the desktop image that it is using Firefox which, as I've already said, windows users might have used or heard of.

Draft2 Making a CD or USB for your first boot

I think this is good but I have just one comment to make. When I started with puppy I did not know how to burn an .iso. I think someone in an earlier post mentioned that it was very easy to copy the .iso files rather than burn them to a cd if you are not used to doing this.

What you will need to make a bootable CD:

In this section the information on how to burn an .iso to a cd is here.

-CD burning software, if you don't already have this, try one of these free programs
-----MS Windows - BurnCDCC*, (tested) available here https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downl ... -software/ *BurnCDCC - set speed slider to CD 4X

I assume, from it's name, BurnCDCC only burns to cd, however, if a new user attempt to use other software on their machine where there is also the option to copy files they might choose the wrong option. Can I suggest an extra line something like this. If you choose to use other software you might already have which can write to a cd make sure you choose the option to "burn" to a cd and not "copy".

Regards,

Ken.

@keniv
The two remaster examples friendly-bionic32 and friendly-fossa64 have both Firefox and Palemoon.
I think Palemoon is the lightest weight 32bit still being updated. Firefox 32bit is still being updated.
@mikewalsh is one of our resident browser experts, he may know more.

Puppy Linux can run well on old 32bit computers, but they just don't have the horsepower for modern
web requirements. So, on those machines I would use Palemoon when I could and Firefox if websites
demanded more compliance to their standards.

I have no experience with Edge, but don't find that there is a 32bit Linux version. That said, I wouldn't want to depend on MS to
maintain anything. As time goes on, 32bit computers will have less and less ability to use the internet. Sad.

One thing currently missing on ALL 32bit browsers is the ability to stream video that uses DRM (digital rights management). This means commercial movies on Netfix, Tubi, Crackle, Youtube, etc. can't be played.

Part of the reason for selecting the CD/USB creation software listed in Draft2 was they only offer limited choices for the user and not much room to go wrong. Will add your caution statement for CD burning in the alternate programs paragraph.

You're providing great input and posing good questions. Hope you continue to help with this project.

Thanks
wizard

One thing currently missing on ALL 32bit browsers is the ability to stream video that uses DRM (digital rights management). This means commercial movies on Netfix, Tubi, Crackle, Youtube, etc. can't be played.

Let me check how Firefox works with Void Linux's 32 bit version. Last time I tried it could play Youtube videos. Maybe there is a way to grab the Firefox from Void and run that in a 32 bit Puppy.
Void's version in the 32 bit repo is 96.0.2

@rockedge

It's not plain Youtube videos, just copyrighted content, i.e. commercial movies (free & paid) that use DRM that are on Youtube.

Thanks
wizard

@JASpup :-

JASpup wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:16 pm

The menus beg user-friendly names reworking. I can post mine later.

What?? You mean, stuff like calling the GIMP 'Photoshop'.....because that way, everyone will know what it is?

Christ on a bike. You can't pull blatant 'cons' like that, just to make it seem more 'friendly'. Folks aren't stupid, y'know.

Mike.

One possible solution for the Linux USB hybrid issue would be to use remasters of specified 32bit and 64bit distros.

My observations have me reaching the following conclusions:

• Remasters are Excellent for collapsing a PUP/DOG's desktop into a single bootable image containing all desired user expectations. They were designed for local and personal user use.

• Over the years, several members have presented a personal tailored Remaster as their version of an 'upgrade' to a developer's PUP/DOG distro. This include and often contains additional benefits as it may have fixes, newer apps, never kernels, etc.

• At the personal level, I whole-heartedly agree with this approach as member present their ReMaster solution for community review.

But there is an inherent problem with community presentations of ReMasters that I have hoped the WoofCE developers or forum members would have solve by now over the many years I see PUPs have been around. That problem, from my point of view, is that when booting a remaster on a PC where the "original' PUP distro was run, the remaster picks up the save-sessions found for the distro it intends to replace! This is BAD!!! on so many fronts, yet has gone without attention.

We seasoned users have enough experience to be aware of this problem and take steps to circumvent this problem. But MANY users are NOT experienced enough to know of the problem much less how to circumvent.

To make clear, here's the very real example using FossaPUP64 (this is NOT unique as it pertains to

1. ALL FORUM DISTROS WHICH ARE REMASTERS)You have been running your FossaPUP64 for months on your PC.

2. Over the months you have accumulated fixes, additional programs, tailoring of subsystems, session-saves, etc to your liking. This is your "BASE" system.

3. You see a ReMaster presented by a forum member and decide to investigate use on your PC.

4. You download and boot the ReMaster.

This Remaster, created from the same PUP-DOG used on your PC will behave EXACTLY at boot time as does any other PUP distro, including your BASE. This means:

• That the booting Remaster can see and inherit at INIT exactly the similar things your BASE sees at boot time.

• And at the end, when YOU decide to shutdown, it will create a replacement session-save on your PC; namely. in this example, 'fossapup64save'.

I think you, now, see the problem: On reboot, what do you think either PUP will do?

Firstly
I have wondered 'who' do you ASK to accommodate a change to this ReMaster problem? The remaster distro really should have its own name; such as "whatever name the presenter has chosen".

• Should this be a WoofCE resolution?

• Should this be a specific solution unique to the INIT subsystem?

• Should this be a specific solution unique to the Shutdown subsystem?

• Should this be some special step that ALL forum presenters must follow if they present reMaster of a developer's work?

Secondly
Where do we draw attention to this issue that prevails in ALL current remasters and affect every user if they are already using the BASE that the reMaster is rooted in?

Conclusion

• ReMasters are an excellent feature to create a single image of one's work.

• ReMasters are personal to the creator of that image.

• ReMasters are excellent in presenting to the community for evaluation, and guidance/assistance.

• BUT, ReMasters need an upgrade to allow the creator who want to share their work to NAME the remaster different from the original developer's distro.

I know some of you will argue this item, but, that would NOT address the issue.

Your Thoughts?