Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

This is a remaster of fossapup64 9.5 Thanks @666philb

Overall Objective - provide users a system configured to emulate the ChromeOS used on Chromebooks. A cloud based experience running the Chromium browser.

Include these components:
-a simplified desktop
-a simplified taskbar
-limit apps and isolate users from other programs and features in Puppy
-provide help docs in PDF format available in the browser.

It is Cloudpup-Fossa64. Hope you find it interesting or maybe it will provide ideas for others.

This is the target user group criteria:
-Windows user, other Linux user, Mac user
-Beginner level skills
-Hardware is a 64bit, dual core cpu, 2gb ram, only one internal drive (if installing to internal drive)
-Can or knows someone who can create a bootable USB flash drive using Rufus or Unetbootin

This versions features:
-top taskbar hidden until mouse over
-right side top taskbar widgets activated
-Chromium limited to one instance
-Chromium open tabs limited to 10
-savefile use in conky thanks to @HerrBert
-ability to use save folder instead of save file (fixes the save file management issue)
-ability to update the browser

If you download the ISO be sure to read the next post to create a bootable USB.

On first boot wait ~5 seconds for the Chromium Setup window to appear
V1.0 better security, added two features, reduced ISO size, see post below
https://sourceforge.net/projects/cloudp ... o/download
RC5- improved tamper proofing see post
https://sourceforge.net/projects/cloudp ... o/download
RC4 - improved tamper proofing see post #22
https://sourceforge.net/projects/cloudp ... o/download

Cloudpup, as it stands now is not configured for the end user, rather it is set up for
someone to do the final configuration that is then in the save file/folder. It is deployed to the user with the save file/folder.

Users wanting to further customize Cloudpup can pm me for instructions to gain admin setup.

wizard

System Requirements: 64bit, dual core cpu, 2gb ram, only one internal drive (if installing to internal drive)

Create your bootable USB flash drive using one of these programs:
Windows – Unetbootin or Rufus (do not use the dd option)
Linux – Unetbootin
Puppy Linux - Stickpup or Unetbootin

Unetbootin 702 was used in testing.

Any of these programs will make a bootable USB that will also allow you to place your save file/folder (saves session changes) on it.

Install Notes:

Unetbootin - Linux or Windows
USB formatted ext3 = mbr legacy boot
-allows savefile or folder, folder an advantage

USB formatted fat32 = hybrid boot, uefi and legacy
-allows savefile only

Rufus - Windows only
USB is fat32 by default = hybrid boot, uefi and legacy
-allows savefile only

Stickpup - Puppy Linux only
USB is fat32 by default = hybrid boot, uefi and legacy
-allows savefile only

For a more challenging install, try making a hybrid boot USB that will also
allow using a save folder. I'll post the answer in a couple of days.

wizard

Great wallpaper there wizard, had a nice little chuckle.

Posting from it now. Looks good, booted right up.... although I did have to delete the partition on my flashdrive and let stickpup write to a raw partition. It wouldn't accept writing over a fat32 partition.

@GMBudwrench

Yep, I've run into the same thing with installers, it's really best to erase the USB first.

wizard

Wizard, on your next update, you might want to clear the history in Chromium. It goes back almost a week of your browsing history. Password isn't there, but your log in is still hanging around.

@GMBudwrench

thanks, will fix

wizard

Cloudpup-Fossa64- rc2 is available in the first post. Cloudpup was originally created as a specific project of forum member @Volhout . This version features tools and access more suited for general distribution.

Includes:
-Setup icon in the left of the upper taskbar that runs wizardwizard, giving access to the most common configuration tools
The Startup and Menu Manager buttons are disabled

-Hotkey, hold: ctrl shift press: i = Puppy Installer
NOTE: hot keys may become unresponsive for unknown reasons. Try killing applications or reboot to restore function
-Anydesk (remote desktop app) in the left of the upper taskbar
-Firewall disabled in internet setup, since firewalls can block programs such as Anydesk, Zoom, Teams, etc

Google Remote Desktop was considered for a remote desktop, but failed installation, plus has a 60mb + footprint vs 13mb for Anydesk.

Also, Palemoon, Abiword and Gnumeric were removed.

Users wanting to further customize Cloudpup can pm me for instructions to gain admin setup.

wizard

Hello @wizard Just stumbled onto your project, here.

Nice.

But, to avoid the problems in using the suggestion of USB creation found above, I merely downloaded your ISO file to SG2D (tested Ventoy as well). Upon merely downloading your ISO file, I immediately booted to desktop. Run well addressing the use case you have built this for.

Save-session to my Sessions folder and it is found on reboot.

Your work is a FossaPUP64 remaster. And it works well. There is one issue that arose on reboot: ALL of my FossaPUP64 save-sessions, including this, are being listed. So, I wonder if you might want to make clear in your 1st post that this ISO is a remaster AND that on reboot, other FossaPUP64saves will also be listed; thus users MUST insure that they use a name-suffix so that it is clear that the save-session is unique and easily identified for this remaster.

Keep up the good assistance you provide. Thanks for this

wizard wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:22 am

...
Rufus - Windows only
USB is fat32 by default = hybrid boot, uefi and legacy
-allows savefile only
...

Terry, see my post here about how to use Rufus, viewtopic.php?p=26898#p26898.

Frankly, I don't recall having to previously configure Rufus to create 'persistence'. Maybe the newest version made changes.
The 2nd post on this thread should note the requirement now if an ISO9660 device (not writable) is to be avoided.

Thanks Mike, one more way to get a hybrid bootable USB that can use a save folder.

wizard

cloudpup-fossa64- rc3 is available in the first post.

EDIT: see post #13 for RC3b, cloudpup-220102-rc3 is no longer required in the directory with puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs

This is an update to RC2

New Features:
-Frisbee is now the default Internet Connect program
-Chromium can now be updated, thanks to @peebee Chromium SFS files
-Open Chromium and click the HELP icon in the bookmarks bar for how to update

This no longer required in RC3b
Some install methods do not copy extra files from the ISO.
IMPORTANT: after installing, be sure the file cloudpup-220102-rc3 from the ISO is copied to the
same directory as puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs

Note: Update will only work if you have created a save file/folder. Update will
not work if you are booting directly from the ISO since the update must be in the
same folder as the puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs file.

wizard

Are you willing to check the accuracy of this statement. I cannot confirm.

wizard wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:37 pm

Note: Update will only work if you have created a save file/folder. Update will
not work if you are booting directly from the ISO since the update must be in the
same folder as the puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs file.

Booting PUPs from an ISO file is EXACTLY the same behavior of any frugal boot. This includes 'persistence' as does all PUPs. ("Persistence" means save-folders and save-files) Thus, I'm curious and want to help if you allow me to follow your steps leading to why your statement would be true.

Can you please produce some evidence of the claim using a SG2D USB (as it is the simplest USB to build since I already create one on the forum)...please. Works the same booting ISO files from the Ventoy USB. (PLease report on those forum threads if you do have a finding. In case I am not online, others will help)

Thanks in advance

cloudpup-fossa64- rc3b is available in the first post.

This is bug fix release for RC3.

-fixes a bug that would prevent Chromium update if Cloudpup is installed on a non-Linux file system
-improves the Chromium update code so the file cloudpup-220102-rc3 is no longer required in the directory with puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs

wizard

@Clarity

RC3/3b will boot and run fine from Ventoy, etc., however, the Chromium update feature will not work.

short answer:
a result of my poor coding skills

long answer:
Today, a key element to keeping a distribution viable requires being able to update the
browser. It is even more critical with Cloudpup remaster which is broswer centric. Even with a
full access Puppy install, updating a Chrome/Chromium based browser is not straight forward due to
its requirement to run as spot. @mikewalsh has found a way to do it with his Chrome Portable.

Cloudpup users only have access to the browser and not much else, not even the Downloads directory.
This means browser updates must run behind the user interface as much as possible.

Thanks to @peebee's Chromium SFS's and Puppy's modular build it can be done for Chromium.
In practice, the user downloads a newer version of the browser using a Chromium bookmark, closes
Chromium and presses a hotkey sequence to install.
The hotkeys run a script that renames the new version to ydrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs and copies that to the same directory containing puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs so it will load automatically during boot.
The bonus is the script can also rollback a faIled install.

The ydrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs requirement to be in the same directory as puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs is where booting directly from the ISO fails.

Someone with better coding skills may be able to figure out how it could work, but in the end those booting directly from the ISO are not really the target user group.

Hope that answers the question.

Thanks
wizard

Forgive me, but if what you share is true, then this is a Frugal problem...not a ISO file boot problem. ISO file boot DOES NOT change how Frugal works. So, if it works in Frugal then it also works in ISO file boots. Could it be you are changing boot stanzas or some thing(s) in boot, that is not apparent?

Please test for accuracy in your statement....OR PM me for a private test.

I will work to ensure your results are consistent.

OK, I think I am getting the picture you paint.

This has NOTHING to do with ISO file booting, normal PUP booting, or how the Frugals work.

You are describing a need to modify the boot contents such that a new file (namely a SFS file) is to be added. When that SFS is added, PUP will find it on boot and incorporate it in the booting process.

Your PUP is a remaster. And, you want/need to add a file to the remaster that was not there before; namely the ydrv.sfs.

If it were me using ISO files as I do, I would have opened ISOmaster, added the SFS and booted the new ISO file immediately.

So, we should be explaining that simple step where the ydrv.sfs (0R ANY sfs for that matter) is 'written to the boot contents for a subsequent boot'.

Is that a correct way or a clearer way to express what is happening and why you felt the way you have?

So, this is not a ISO file boot issue, it is a PUP boot contents issue where a change is needed. And that change can be done by merely adding it to the folder or ISO which is used to boot PUP.

@wizard :-

You've discovered the same thing I did.....namely, that it's only really possible to reliably script for an updater when you can be certain that the devs who provide the item for downloading do so in a consistent manner, i.e., it always has the same name!

I can do this, and it works for, not only Chrome-portable but also Iron-portable, and more recently, the Zoom-portable package, because I can depend on them always having the same, predictable, relatively short name for every single release.

I cannot do this for Brave, M$ Edge, Opera, Ungoogled-Chromium or Vivaldi.....because all their devs appear to feel the need to include exact version numbers into every single build they release for download. You can't even 'grep' for the basic name because of other grammatical odds'n'ends that keep changing from build to build.

I thought peebee always included exact version numbers into every SFS of Chromium he produces? At least, he always used to....

Mike.

@mikewalsh

I thought peebee always included exact version numbers into every SFS of Chromium he produces? At least, he always used to....

Yes he does, but the update script doesn't care, it gets whatever file name was downloaded and renames it.

wizard

@Clarity

So, this is not a ISO file boot issue, it is a PUP boot contents issue where a change is needed. And that change can be done by merely adding it to the folder or ISO which is used to boot PUP.

Yes, the original Chromium version is "baked" into puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs and the user needs a simple way to add the ydrv file that is the update.

If it were me using ISO files as I do, I would have opened ISOmaster, added the SFS and booted the new ISO file immediately.

The Chrome update processes goal is to allow the unskilled user to do an update themselves when needed. Keep in mind that the target users aren't booting from an ISO, and even if they were they have neither the skills nor the access to mod an ISO.

Thanks
wizard

You keep referring to a "target user". Yet, what you are doing is NOT something that the same user you say shouldn't boot from an ISO file is suppose to be able to figure out use of a ydrv.sfs usage???

OK, it is a developer's privilege to choose who he sees as his audience, AND I stand for that privilege.

BUT, here's the dilemma, as you are using FossaPUP64 which targets everyone.

The dilemma

• FossaPUP64 (and all WoofCE PUPs as well as the DOGs) already is designed to handle changes of browsers, including Chromium. It baked into FossaPUP64, without changes to make a ydrv.

• The savefile/savefolder process ensures that changes are preserved across reboots, without changes to make a ydrv.

• Portables and App-images work and are also present across reboots, without changes to make a ydrv.

• And, there is a current movement to manage SFSs for PUPs by their numerical positioning afoot, where this ydrv might be disruptive/consistent to that

So this dilemma is man-made over and above the current present day designs for new/skilled users who must now understand a difference that was not present before and could be missed if not understood.

The best approach would be a new starting from WoofCE build of a PUP that would match, with automation, the ydrv element you want built into a PUP for those users you want to understand management of the packages you designate....I think.

If I can help I will, but I do understand that this is a departure that has to be taken into account.

I do and I continue to understand that these browsers, we all use, have very different mechanism for safe upgrades to themselves. And that process in and of itself is completely different to this discussion of a use of ydrv implementation. There are other ydrv implementations, too, that have been shown on the forum, but for different missions. And they too, as all ydrv, must be incorporated separately into a PUP's boot structure or somehow managed in some way.

Today, the save file/folder is still a simple, easy, and safe manner of managing subsystem-level changes without any need for developer skills.

RC4 is now available in the first post

This release adds increased separation security that prevents the user from accessing the file system.

-removes the drives and save icons from the desktop,
-improves the Chromium update code,

Thanks to these members for there help
@sonny
@MochiMoppel
@mikewalsh

wizard

RC5 is now available in the first post

This release adds more separation security that prevents the user from accessing the file system.

Big thanks to @proebler for finding the holes

wizard

wizard wrote: Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:45 pm

RC4 is now available in the first post

This release adds increased separation security that prevents the user from accessing the file system.

-removes the drives and save icons from the desktop,
-improves the Chromium update code,

Thanks to these members for there help
@sonny
@MochiMoppel
@mikewalsh

wizard

@wizard Since you thanked me and a I wasn't sure for what I downloaded and installed RC5. I should have read your quoted remarks to prepare me for a surprise. What I had hoped for was a pup with a preinstalled Chromium.
The good news: The browser works nicely.
The bad news for me: I don't know how to use the pup for anything else than the browser. Looks like you created a kiosk pup, designed to keep users from tampering with the system: No drive icons, no application shortcuts, no menu (!), no access to a terminal (what looks like a terminal shortcut is a shortcut to the Wallpaper setter ), in other words no way to start a program. In my desperation I exited X and started with urxvt to start geany to cripple all scripts that prevent a "normal" startup. Maybe I should try older releases for a more orthodox user experience

One more thing that puzzled me already with the original Fossa64: After a fresh boot my personal storage is reported as 932MiB (which is normal as I have 2GM RAM), but out of these 932MiB "personal" storage only 229MiB are left as free space - and this is not normal and not enough for serious work.

@MochiMoppel

This all started with a request in this topic: viewtopic.php?t=4753

Looks like you created a kiosk pup, designed to keep users from tampering with the system

You are correct and all of the releases follow that. Here's a quote from the first post in this topic:

Overall Objective - provide users a system configured to emulate the ChromeOS used on Chromebooks. A cloud based experience running the Chromium browser.

Include these components:
-a simplified desktop
-a simplified taskbar
-limit apps and isolate users from other programs and features in Puppy
-provide help docs in PDF format available in the browser.

I'm sure the free memory issue is related to the increase in size of puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs and the
integration of Chromium

and this is not normal and not enough for serious work.

Keep in mind Chromium is really all the user is running. I did minimum testing on my 1.6ghz dual core, 2gb ram laptop and it seems to work fine. You can increase your free ram a lot by using the boot config option nocopy that prevents the main sfs from loading into ram.

All the magical things that Puppy does makes this is a good application. It can be a low cost alternative to the more complex ChromeOS/CloudReady because it will run on older computers, can be installed, setup to dualboot or just used from a USB or sdcard.

Check your PM, I've sent you instructions to give you admin setup.

Thanks for your help and comments
wizard

V1.0 is now available in the first post

Changes:
-closes a security hole
-add Conky on/off toggle to top tray1
-remove pager in tray1
-add ctrl>shift>n hotkey to allow changing the network hostname without entering admin mode

Uninstalled the following to reduce ISO size:
-cdrtools
-claws
-deadbeef
-eboardchess
-haiku
-simplescreenrecorder

Thanks
wizard