SOLVED: Question Regarding Trying To Build A NAS Puppy Linux Derivative, And An Emacs Centered Puppy Linux Derivative

[Shortstop]

Hey there,

I'm a complete newbie to Puppy Linux.

For some reason, I always feel the need to check this distro out.

Forgive me if I say this flat out, but the jenkiness of the distro, and the fact that there are literally thousands of puplet derivatives are what I find absolutely fascinating.

This and the distro's commitment to old hardware is what keeps me coming back for some reason. I happen to just own 64 bit PC's throughout my lab, but still, its awesome that you guys are still pushing through with supporting older hardware, because why not?

With this out of the way, I am thinking to do two major types of Puplets somehow:

• A 64-bit NAS based Puppy Linux distro to replace PuppyNAS and NASPup from the Archive.org archive: Reason being is that these are both 32-bit which is great for older hardware, but a bit weird for someone like me that likes to play around with Ventoy and only has access to a 64-bit machine (Links: 'https://archive.org/details/Puppy_linux_PUPNAS', 'https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_NASpuppy')

• An Emacs based Puppy Linux distro in which I figure out how to compile the latest Emacs from source, which 'exwm' Emacs Window Manager built in, from scratch, with a config similar to my own personal config.

• Possibly a third variant with a crazy specific window manager like AwesomeWM, SpectWM, etc. Not sure which one, but I think this would be cool enough since I don't see any spins of this on this distro, and think some users on here would like this.

My main question is primarily around this workflow:

• I would just have to grab whatever base Puppy Linux distro I want, and then boot into it, and then install whatever I want ontop

• Then, once the installation stuff is out of the way, just remaster the entire drive as a new Puppy Linux ISO right? --> What utility do I use? + does anyone have a guide on this?

Also, how would I figure out how to create a general config file that people can modify? Should I just plan on using the regular user (can't remember what it's called, but I think its 'spot' or 'finn') and center my config around that?

Anyway, nice to meet everyone, long time lurker here, and hope you're doing well.

More On My Background:
Personally, I have maybe 3 to 4 Puppy Linux ISOs on a Ventoy drive waiting to actually being used as Desktop drivers, as I just have Manjaro KDE installed on a USB flash drive personally on the desktop machine that I plan on using for digital art.

[Clarity]

All of the modern PUP-DOGs are candidates for easy download and boot via Ventoy. They all come complete with SAMBA and most include the SAMBA utilities you would want for simple setup and use for LAN access users. To this end you will have little to no problems adding your users and allocating access to the facilities you make available.

I have 2 'specific' cautions to share; 1 for PUP-DOGs you choose and 1 'set' for PUP use with Ventoy.

PUP-DOG Use
Stay away from Real-time kernels. Should you need to interact while user use is active, the RT kernel wont do you any favors in performance or behavior.

Ventoy Use

• Please keep ALL of your ISO files in a folder on Ventoy's partition #1 named BOOTISOS. Ventoy will easily find and display them as it currently does. Keeping them this way will signal to you where you keep ISO files in this common area. It make it easy for YOU to identify the folder's meaning and will facilitate the following important item, as well.

• Please install a SuperGRUB2Disc (SG2D) ISO file in the /BOOTISOS folder, as well. From time to time, I have found that you will run into some questionable boot issues when booting directly from the Ventoy menu. But since 2019, SG2D has no such problems. If it wont boot via SG2D, then something is amiss and the PUP-DOG may NOT have been built by WoofCE or by the DOG authors that you find on the forum.

Thus this arrangement covers all the PUP-DOG "boot bases", no matter what.

Thus, like you I agree that Ventoys offers: "NO need to install a PUP-DOG when ISO file boots offers ALL the same benefits without lifting a finger beyond downloading to the /BOOTISOS folder."

In Conclusion
Booting a PUP-DOG via its ISO file is akin to what many/most members call Frugal: Except for one very important difference: You boot the distro from its ISO file (this means you avoid all the normal issues of writing the ISO file contents that members do run into doing/trying to do a Frugal installation).

Apps, as well as Shutdown processing to save the system's session works EXACTLY the same as it does in what they call 'frugal' ("Ventoy/SG2D is a Frugal" in performance and operations with none of the hassle associated with rewriting from the ISO file to CD/DVD/USB/HDD/SSD/SDcard/etc.).

There are some great modern 64bit PUPs and some Great DOGs to choose from across this forum.

Hope this is both helpful and allows trouble free use of the PUP-DOGs you both test and use.

[Shortstop]

All of the modern PUP-DOGs are candidates for easy download and boot via Ventoy. They all come complete with SAMBA and most include the SAMBA utilities you would want for simple setup and use for LAN access users. To this end you will have little to no problems adding your users and allocating access to the facilities you make available.

I have 2 'specific' cautions to share; 1 for PUP-DOGs you choose and 1 'set' for PUP use with Ventoy.

PUP-DOG Use
Stay away from Real-time kernels. Should you need to interact while user use is active, the RT kernel wont do you any favors in performance or behavior.

Ventoy Use

• Please keep ALL of your ISO files in a folder on Ventoy's partition #1 named BOOTISOS. Ventoy will easily find and display them as it currently does. Keeping them this way will signal to you where you keep ISO files in this common area. It make it easy for YOU to identify the folder's meaning and will facilitate the following important item, as well.

• Please install a SuperGRUB2Disc (SG2D) ISO file in the /BOOTISOS folder, as well. From time to time, I have found that you will run into some questionable boot issues when booting directly from the Ventoy menu. But since 2019, SG2D has no such problems. If it wont boot via SG2D, then something is amiss and the PUP-DOG may NOT have been built by WoofCE or by the DOG authors that you find on the forum.

Thus this arrangement covers all the PUP-DOG "boot bases", no matter what.

Thus, like you I agree that Ventoys offers: "NO need to install a PUP-DOG when ISO file boots offers ALL the same benefits without lifting a finger beyond downloading to the /BOOTISOS folder."

In Conclusion
Booting a PUP-DOG via its ISO file is akin to what many/most members call Frugal: Except for one very important difference: You boot the distro from its ISO file (this means you avoid all the normal issues of writing the ISO file contents that members do run into doing/trying to do a Frugal installation).

Apps, as well as Shutdown processing to save the system's session works EXACTLY the same as it does in what they call 'frugal' ("Ventoy/SG2D is a Frugal" in performance and operations with none of the hassle associated with rewriting from the ISO file to CD/DVD/USB/HDD/SSD/SDcard/etc.).

There are some great modern 64bit PUPs and some Great DOGs to choose from across this forum.

Hope this is both helpful and allows trouble free use of the PUP-DOGs you both test and use.

Wow, thanks for this detailed post!

I'm going to go ahead and try your suggestions to move over the ISOs to a specific folder onto the Ventoy external HDD, and to specifically check out some DOG ISOs in this scenario.

I had no idea they had easy use of SAMBA, which is awesome! I basically just wanted to boot into some kind of Puppy Linux variant, and share some drives for a bit temporarily. Reason being, I have a couple of awesome art video courses that are amazing on a laptop or tablet via SAMBA, so this would be great. My current workaround is using Manjaro KDE's Dolphin file manager that automatically shares a folder that contains a mounted drive that I specified with /etc/fstab.

However, using a DOG ISO sounds more awesome

Thanks again. I'll see if I could also maybe contribute to the main Puppy Linux team too, either with docs, code PRs or artwork, can't decide

[Shortstop]

Actually, can you clarify just one thing:
When you mean 'Pup-Dog', did you mean there's a specific Puppy Linux variant type called 'Pup-Dog'?

Or did you mean any 'Puppy Linux' or 'Dog' ISO will work in this scenario?

I'm going to assume you meant any of the 'Dog' variants in addition to the 'Puppy Linux' variants count --> So I will look for some 'Dog' variants to kind of base my new images from with this in mind. Probably will shoot for Debian in that respect or Ubuntu.

[Shortstop]

Also, should I be looking for 'Dog' variants on this sub-forum of the site as well?

https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewforum.php?f=46

EDIT: Yep, did a bit more research into it, and found this site:
https://debiandog.github.io/doglinux/

Most of the variants link back to that 'Dog House' sub forum, so I'll try to look out for some variants worth getting. Definitely going to check out the Debian and Ubuntu variants in that case.

EDIT: My main question that still remains is this:
I know they have default users on Puppy Linux variants like 'root' or 'puppy' etc.

If I wanted to make a new user like 'tom', is that still valid in the scope of Puppy Linux?

I ask because I wanted to use my Emacs setup, and make sure that the files I edit also are owned by a user with the same name so I can back stuff up on a local file server without having user permissions clashes. Thanks.

[Shortstop]

I know I've hammered this thread with a ton of questions but I still have a few more:

What specific 'Dog' variants would you recommend?

And do you have to use Super Grub Disk 2 in Ventoy BEFORE booting into any Puppy Linux variant?

Or are you recommending to use that as a backup procedure in case a Puppy Linux ISO doesn't boot properly?

[rockedge]

what will you be using for the NAS software? The server you are planning? This will help make the decision whether to use a Puppy Linux and their various remaster tools, or go with a DebianDog and the apt package manager.

Here is for example an excellent set of tools to shape, tune and remaster Puppy Linux -> viewtopic.php?p=12983#p12983

Some time ago I set up some solid NAS servers using different Puppy Linux's using -> freenas now known as truenas

[Clarity]

Hi @Shortstop

... Or did you mean any 'Puppy Linux' or 'Dog' ISO will work in this scenario? ...

Yes, the modern PUPs and DOGs (aka my abbreviation, PUP-DOGs for PUPs and for DOGs, together) account for just about every forum distro published since 2019.

Old PUPs DO NOT have this technology since they were produced BEFORE the WoofCE addition allowing this advanced boot method(s).

My Ventoy disk is this:

My Vendoy partition 1.jpg (8.09 KiB) Viewed 1614 times

Enjoy

[Shortstop]

Hey there,

REGARDING THE NAS QUESTION:
So to answer your question about "What" I plan on doing with the NAS server, I basically was trying to look for an easy way to just boot into a distro and to just share all the drives present on the machine as a NAS without doing a single thing.

Apparently, I configured my Manjaro KDE installation on a USB flash drive to automatically do this via the Dolphin file manager which is awesome.

However, that's the idea I could easily do in Puppy Linux as well --> Just boot into some Puppy Linux distro where I don't even have to turn on the monitor but know that I can access the harddrives from other machines on my LAN network --> This would be great for a personal laptop or iPad in another room so I can do artwork studies since I have a ton of art courses sitting on one of my HDD's that I could learn from.

REGARDING MY 'SFS' SAVE:
I am totally new to Puppy but I've tried to use Jackalpup for fun since I do a lot of music production on my own. However, when I shut it down and it asks me to save the 'sfs' save, I tell it to use the Ventoy partition that's the default one.

Yet, I saw an actual NEGATIVE file size amount for the 'sfs' which didn't look right. It happened so fast that I couldn't take a screenshot or I assumed it would 'just work' but nope, every time I boot into Jackalpup, it acts like the first time boot, which is a little annoying since I have 2 monitors, and I also don't want to set the language to EN_US, and setup the internet each time.

What specific utility do I use to call the 'saving' option in Puppy Linux, specifically on the 'Jackalpup' variant?

OTHER IDEA:
Should I NOT be using the default GRUB menu option of booting straight into Jackalpup in that case? Or does it not matter since it doesn't appear to even be saving properly?

[Shortstop]

Here's the specific text of the 'First shutdown: sanity check' screen for reference:

First shutdown: sanity check
FINAL SANITY CHECK:
Partition you are saving to: ventoy
The file system of ventoy partition: iso9660
Name of the save file: jackalpupsave.4fs
Path (folder of the save file: (BLANK)
Size of save file: -1024KB (-1MB)
Filesystem inside save file: ext4

If they definitely look right, choose YES< SAVE button...
Looks ok, but you want to change the folder, choose CHANGE FOLDER....
If anything looks wrong, choose DO NOT SAVE...

[wizard]

Here's a link to a post and document on setting up a file server which is what you are referring to as a NAS. It was written for Puppy Slacko 6.3, but the same tools and method should work for any of the new 64 bit Puppies. There is also no reason you can't set it up with Slacko 6.3, since it will run fine on x64 computers

https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... er#p984513

wizard

[Shortstop]

Sick, thanks Wizard.

Would be interested if anyone would be able to help me with that 'sfs' save issue though.

Curious if anyone using Ventoy experienced that issue with the 'Jackalpup' release?

[Clarity]

Would be interested if anyone would be able to help me with that 'sfs' save issue though.

Curious if anyone using Ventoy experienced that issue with the 'Jackalpup' release?

Hi, I understand the issue you are facing with the ISO file booters. I will, first, try to explain, and then give a simple resolution. (BTW: I had attempted to explain this on both the forum pages on this forum for Ventoy AND also on the SG2D pages on this forum. If you have a moment please review either/both to understand the simple instructions which will avoid this issue)

The PROBLEM is what modern PUPs are told (or not told in this case) when booting. Thus, yes, if you missed my forum post on SG2D/Ventoy use, it boots in such a way as it 'protects' the ISO folder-device with setup as an ISO9660 format (non-writable device eg. DVD/Blu-ray/CD/etc.)....Puppy Linux security.

It is resolved when my instructions for using your Ventoy or a SG2D USB is used for the 1st time to boot any modern PUP; hence the 'between-the-lines' message in forum posts I have made.

Without boring you as to the 'how & why', I'll get straight-away to the resolution 'suggestion'.

Please do this:

1. Boot your USB

2. Select your PUP you want to boot

3. On the PUPPY's menu (top line "fossapup64 9.5"), hit the 'e' to edit the line item

4. On the Linux line add an entry telling WHERE the save is to be placed. I recommend:

   • on a linux partition on permanent media (because it is both faster and more reliable than any USB)

   • use a folder name that makes sense to you (I use '/Sessions' as the location for ALL of my PUP-DOG persistence save-folders, as. for me, I know that folder and what it contains.)

5. the Linux line should read "/vmlinuz ... psave=sda5:/Sessions/", in my case, indicating an ext4 partition with a folder "Sessions".

6. Now, allow PUP to proceed to boot.

You PC will boot and at save-session time, it will attempt to guide a pristine boot to that device+folder.

Let me know if I missed something.

NOTE: What's really neat about this type of Frugal booting, where the ISO file is use, is that @gyrog awhile ago has modern PUPs booting and creating a SAVESPEC file. This is an enormous boot-assist advantage because on subsequent boots of PUPs-DOGs the persistence is found without the need to edit PUP's menu line (eg. "PSAVE=...") in future boots/reboots.

Enjoy

[Shortstop]

Gotcha, so I created a 'Sessions' folder on the Ventoy drive's default partition that allows you to dump stuff onto it aka it shows up as 'Ventoy' while the HDD is hooked up to a USB slot in Manjaro Linux's Dolphin File Manager.

With this in mind, do I have to figure out what 'sda' its mounted to though in that case?

I ask because I'm confused about the 'sda5:' section of your previous post.

I understand that the '/vmlinuz...' basically means just find that 'vmlinuz' line in the Grub config section after hitting 'e' to edit it.

However, I immediately think that it wouldn't be 'sda5' in my scenario, and most likely since its an external HDD there might be the chance that it would show up as a different 'sda' drive number each time I boot, ex: First it would appear as 'sda3', but another time it would show up as 'sda2' etc.

Are you dropping to terminal first to figure out what Puppy Linux would know what drive to map it to in '/dev/'?

[Shortstop]

Just to make this process easier, I just bought a $15 USB drive to use for Jackalpup, as I don't think it might be a modern pup that could benefit from Ventoy.

Or, I'm maybe being a bit dumb and overthinking how to use 'SG2D' as mentioned in previous posts though.

Either way, I think this should be fine as I should be able to at least write an .sfs save to a normal USB flash drive going forward.