Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Hi
I have an old think pad with the following specs:
AMD A4-6210 APU @ 1.80GHz
64 bit architecture
4 gig ram
~500 gig hard drive

I have partitioned the hard drive to allocate ~300 gigs to Windows 10 and ~195 gigs are left un-allocated. I intended to use the 195 gig part of the drive completely for Puppy to live on.

From a USB using Ventoy I non-secure booted FossaPup64 9.5 (not sure how to check exact 9.x version but I'm pretty sure it was 9.5)
I played around with it and I think I definitely want to to keep messing with it but I want it on the hard drive and boot-able from hard drive without needing a USB booter (also laptop has no CD drive). I just don't like the USB dongle sticking out the side my mouse is on as I am a bit paranoid of accidentally hitting it or removing it and breaking something in the software because of it.
Like 10+ years ago I installed Ubuntu on my old Win 7 laptop and had it give the option of booting Win or Ubuntu on startup. I don't remember how I did it but I think I just followed the graphical install wizard from the USB. Anyways that's basically ideally what I want from Puppy.

When I click the installer I get 3 options :
-Frugalpup
-BootFlash
-Installer (Currently doesn't support UEFI)

So I guess BootFlash isn't what I'm after, and I tried Frugal but couldn't manage it (because I wasn't able to find the Puppy directory) and frankly I'm not exactly sure if it is what I need anyways. In my BIOS it says that I use UEFI boot so I'm not sure if the installer option would work on my PC, and in one of the screens it mentioned that my Puppy partition had to come "before" my Win one or something? But on the windows side at least the partition manager shows the un-allocated partition coming after the Win one. Basically maybe I'm overthinking things but I would really appreciate any direction on how to install it correctly to get it to work how I want.

Thank you.

First, take that unallocated space on the drive and turn it into a partition, formatted ext3 or 4.
Choose that as location to install Fossapup64 9.5.

If you want to have Fossapup64 9.5 and Windows 10 both installed on the hard drive.
Easy way to do it.
Use the Lick installer program.
https://github.com/noryb009/lick

Lick is a Windows exe file you run in Windows.
It installs Puppy Linux as a frugal install.
Sets up the boot loader with entries to select which operating system to boot.
Gives you a duel boot setup.
Both operating systems completely separate from each other.

In Windows 10.
Download the Lick exe file
Navigate to it's location.
Click on it to run Lick program.

Warning:
When shutting down Windows 10.
Use normal shutdown.
Do not shutdown in hibernate.
Hibernate does not fully release control of drive from Windows 10.

Also, Windows 10 does not like other operating systems messing with Windows 10 stuff.
So, do not use Fossapup64 file manager to do anything with Windows 10 files or programs stuff.

bigpup wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:22 pm

First, take that unallocated space on the drive and turn it into a partition, formatted ext3 or 4.
Choose that as location to install Fossapup64 9.5.

If you want to have Fossapup64 9.5 and Windows 10 both installed on the hard drive.
Easy way to do it.
Use the Lick installer program.
https://github.com/noryb009/lick

Lick is a Windows exe file you run in Windows.
It installs Puppy Linux as a frugal install.
Sets up the boot loader with entries to select which operating system to boot.
Gives you a duel boot setup.
Both operating systems completely separate from each other.

In Windows 10.
Download the Lick exe file
Navigate to it's location.
Click on it to run Lick program.

Warning:
When shutting down Windows 10.
Use normal shutdown.
Do not shutdown in hibernate.
Hibernate does not fully release control of drive from Windows 10.

Also, Windows 10 does not like other operating systems messing with Windows 10 stuff.
So, do not use Fossapup64 file manager to do anything with Windows 10 files or programs stuff.

Hi bigpup, thanks for the reply. Sad news I'm getting an error on Lick

So basically I made a new partition in Windows, called it "E". Then booted to the USB and used GParted to format it to ext4 (cause Win partition program only does fats and nfts). Then I booted back to Win, launched Lick, passed through my fossapip64-9.5 ISO. So it starts to do stuff, but then the progress bar stalls at "Step 3 / 3:Installing, 0/8 files extracted". It opens a dialogue box that says "Error installing ISO! Error opening output file 'E:/fossapup64-9.5/README.txt' "

I tried it a couple of times and it always gives me the same error in the same spot.

Am I missing some files? I thought the ISO file was all I needed to install the OS?

EDIT: just restart my PC and noticed I now have GRUB but it only shows windows as a boot option, so at least that part of Lick worked I guess?
EDIT 2: uninstalled Lick, reinstalled the terminal version. Also downloaded a fresh Fossa' ISO in case it somehow became corrupted or something: Same exact error this time in terminal "Error installing ISO! Error opening output file 'E:/fossapup64-9.5/README.txt'" Maybe I messed up formatting the disk partition or something idk, but if I didn't make the partition in Windows then it wouldn't show up on the Lick program as an install location... I'm kinda frustrated and out of ideas. I'll look at it again tomorrow
EDIT 3: came back just to say I tried running program as administrator as well just in case and it also had the same exact above result

Hi,

I've been out all day and am just back for a minute. Don't panic. When I get back I'll suggest a plan if bigpup doesn't beat me to it.

Pupper wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 4:54 pm

bigpup wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 3:22 pm

First, take that unallocated space on the drive and turn it into a partition, formatted ext3 or 4.
Choose that as location to install Fossapup64 9.5.

If you want to have Fossapup64 9.5 and Windows 10 both installed on the hard drive.
Easy way to do it.
Use the Lick installer program.
https://github.com/noryb009/lick

Lick is a Windows exe file you run in Windows.
It installs Puppy Linux as a frugal install.
Sets up the boot loader with entries to select which operating system to boot.
Gives you a duel boot setup.
Both operating systems completely separate from each other.

In Windows 10.
Download the Lick exe file
Navigate to it's location.
Click on it to run Lick program.

Warning:
When shutting down Windows 10.
Use normal shutdown.
Do not shutdown in hibernate.
Hibernate does not fully release control of drive from Windows 10.

Also, Windows 10 does not like other operating systems messing with Windows 10 stuff.
So, do not use Fossapup64 file manager to do anything with Windows 10 files or programs stuff.

Hi bigpup, thanks for the reply. Sad news I'm getting an error on Lick

So basically I made a new partition in Windows, called it "E". Then booted to the USB and used GParted to format it to ext4 (cause Win partition program only does fats and nfts). Then I booted back to Win, launched Lick, passed through my fossapip64-9.5 ISO. So it starts to do stuff, but then the progress bar stalls at "Step 3 / 3:Installing, 0/8 files extracted". It opens a dialogue box that says "Error installing ISO! Error opening output file 'E:/fossapup64-9.5/README.txt' "

I tried it a couple of times and it always gives me the same error in the same spot.

Am I missing some files? I thought the ISO file was all I needed to install the OS?

EDIT: just restart my PC and noticed I now have GRUB but it only shows windows as a boot option, so at least that part of Lick worked I guess?
EDIT 2: uninstalled Lick, reinstalled the terminal version. Also downloaded a fresh Fossa' ISO in case it somehow became corrupted or something: Same exact error this time in terminal "Error installing ISO! Error opening output file 'E:/fossapup64-9.5/README.txt'" Maybe I messed up formatting the disk partition or something idk, but if I didn't make the partition in Windows then it wouldn't show up on the Lick program as an install location... I'm kinda frustrated and out of ideas. I'll look at it again tomorrow
EDIT 3: came back just to say I tried running program as administrator as well just in case and it also had the same exact above result

What about if you were to try using LICK on your own C: drive? I think it doesn't work because LICK isn't meant to install onto non-windows partition.

Hi Phoenix,
I don't think Lick could have installed the boot-loader other than to what Windows sees as the C: Drive. Lick can only install to the first partition of a Drive. Linux may call that first partition sda1; but that's just a conflict of naming conventions.

For an operating system to boot, there must be two things: the fully functioning operating system and a boot-loader which recognizes and can start that operating system. Pupper has both but not where he wants operating system. And the boot-able Fossapup64 operating system is still located within the ISO on his USB-Key.

My suspicions is that the problem is one of three things: (a) Pupper formatted the hard-drive partition on which Fossapup64 is to be located as Linux Ext4. By now Linux Ext4 should be perfect. But there have been a couple posts about problems where those with expertise (I'm not among them) have suggested that it isn't. I am unaware of anyone reporting a problem when partitions are formatted Linux Ext3. So, that's what I use.
In short I suggest you boot into your Fossapup64 on the USB Key and reformat the partition it sees as Linux Ext4 as Linux Ext3.
If, however, it is already Linux Ext3, tell us. But before doing that --while your still running that Fossapup64-- search sda1 for a file named lickgrub.cfg. It's just a text file. Make a copy of it and provide that text in your next post.

When you run Lick under Windows and it asked you to select an ISO, did you select the Fossapup64 ISO on the USB-Stick being used by Ventoy or a different download?
If the latter, it may have been a bad download. It happens.

The other possibility will require more hands on effort and if it isn't involved discussing it would be academic.

Hi guys I just woke up and came to check ye old forums.

Hi Pheonix

"What about if you were to try using LICK on your own C: drive? I think it doesn't work because LICK isn't meant to install onto non-windows partition."

I don't really get what the purpose of Lick would be unless it can partition the C: drive for me?? In windows the second partition I'm trying to install Puppy on is a 200 gig drive called that I called E:, curiously when I tried to make the partition by allocating in GParted it would show up as a volume in GParted, but on the Win side it was totally invisible. As I mentioned my workaround was to create a new unformatted volume (E:) in Win and then go back to GParted where I formatted it in ext4 (because bigger number = gooder).
Basically if I used it on C: (the OS that I am running it from) wouldn't it just nuke the drive? Plus my Win C: drive is formatted in some stupid windows format anyways

Hi mikeslr

A - I'll try reformatting it as ext3, I just thought bigger number was always better
A.1 - I'll try to find your lickgrub and post it here before doing anything else
2 - Sorry I didn't make myself terribly clear; I thought about the possibility of the Ventoy ISO being mutated as I used it, so the first thing I did was get a brand new fresh USB and dropped a fresh Fossa' ISO on it. When I first encountered the issue the first thing I tried was to re download a fresh ISO again so corruption surely can't be the problem*

*I think my windows is borked. While writing this post I start thinking about some things that I thought I should have mentioned before (sorry guys). So basically the reason I stopped using this laptop was because last year it started to have very strange behaviour in windows. First it would find windows updates then try to install them for 8-16 hours straight then fail. In my attempts to resolve this issue I went down a rabbit hole and discovered that I had some bad file deep in the windows bowels (don't ask this was like a 1+ years ago I don't remember the details). Basically windows would run its stupid little terminal checker program and then say "oh we found this file is bad" then it would """"fix"""" it and then when I would run the program again right after, or after restart etc. and it would immediately find the same file again and try to fix it and so on in an infinite loop.

Why am I bringing this up? Well yesterday I thought my issue might be that I was using the portable version of Lick so I downloaded the full install of it and when I tried to unpack it using default bloody windows tools it threw an error about 6 or 7 times while trying to unpack it saying something like "File x didn't unpack correctly: AEFGH ADOI3434T093 Continue anyways?" (I'll unpack again to post the exact error if its important) Ok that's strange I thought, but when I get the exact same file on my "main" desktop computer I am able to unpack it instantly and with zero errors, so I just copied the unpacked files onto my clean USB and used it to move them over to the laptop and then installed Lick there and still got the same error.

Basically my suspicion is that my windows itself is borked. Years ago when I tried to fix this problem on my own I ended up reinstalling windows 2 or 3 times and got the same damaged file error and was never able to complete an update. I'm not very tech savvy but I am wondering if maybe windows actually keeps some binary files from the old install when you "reinstall" windows or something stupid like that. Maybe I should just format the whole bloody disk and start from complete scratch??

Before I do that though, can anyone suggest how I could check the integrity of the hard drive and ram to rule out any hardware defects that could be the cause of all this nonsense? Maybe I'm leaking memory somewhere? Or may be the hard drive is bad and that's why Puppy works with no problems for me from USB and ram, but windows &&^*s the bed when trying to unpack a 40mb Lick install???

Anyways I'll start with what I can and I'll keep you guys updated, but at this point I've spent 5+ hours trying to make a bloody windows stuff work while ostensibly attempting to install Linux XD
The only reason I want to keep the damn thing dual bootable is because a windows license is like 400 bucks and I'm a greedy bastard.

OK, bad news bears guys.
I can't boot from a USB anymore. On startup I see a black screen that flashes error something for a fraction of a second and then I boot to GRUB with the only option being Windows

Should I just uninstall GRUB using the Lick program? I don't know if I'll be able to get that grub file if I do.
EDIT: NVM "LICK Boot Loader" set itself to my highest priority boot in BIOS, I put my USB before it now.

@mikeslr
I'm on my sda1 and I can't find any file like u mentioned.
There is a file called lick.cer
There is also a folder called "LICK" inside of EFI that has HashTool.efi, loader.efi, shim.efi

Unless I am missing something, it doesn't look like thumbs can actually search for files in the same way that the windows explorer can. That being said sda1 is not that big and I just manually looked in every folder, with hidden files on and was unable to find lickgrub.cfg

I am going to try to reformat disk partition to Ext3 next.

EDIT: maybe I'm not using thumbs correctly or making some mistake, can you tell me exactly what directory this lickgrub folder should be found in?

Nope, reformatting to ext3 made, no difference. Same exact error at progress "Step 3/3: Installing, 0/8 files extracted"
With a dialogue box that says "Error installing ISO! Error openiong output file 'E:fossapup64-9.5/README.txt' "

this was supposed to be easy lol

I have never done this, but supposively** Puppy is supposed to support discretionary placement of pupsaves.

My pupsaves have always been on the boot partition.

The reason I mention this is: if you can boot from USB at all, you can keep Puppy on it and put your pupsave on an internal partition. How does this work?

This is what I would attempt as a newbie on a Windows machine with an aversion to USB thumb drives staying inserted. The primary reason is not having to alter your Windows boot record. Keep thumb drive out, and it's a normal Windows machine.

You can have an elaborate Puppy setup without ext[n] formatted partitions. I did not install Puppy on an internal partition until many months after I first used it. Elegance is the way.

**this not an English word, but I have been using it since I was a teenager.

old thinkpad? how old and which model?

with all your problems, I would eliminate some possible hardware issues first
1. have you ever changed the cmos battery? a weak cmos battery can cause bios and boot issues

I can't boot from a USB anymore.
EDIT: NVM "LICK Boot Loader" set itself to my highest priority boot in BIOS, I put my USB before it now.

you can boot without issue from puppy usb now? if so why not install a different bootloader to your HD from puppy run off the usb?

Sorry, I totally forgot that Windows 10 does not, by default, have support for read/write to Linux ext formats.

You can add this support.
There are drivers and programs that can be added to Windows that will let it see Linux formats.
Here are some to add support to Windows.
https://www.howtogeek.com/112888/3-ways ... m-windows/

Lick, by default, is designed to install Puppy Linux, as a frugal install, on the Windows C partition, and make a boot loader menu, to give option on what to boot.
Windows or Puppy Linux.

I kind of assumed Lick could do installs to other partitions, if they could be read and written to.

JASpup wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:15 pm

The reason I mention this is: if you can boot from USB at all, you can keep Puppy on it and put your pupsave on an internal partition. How does this work?

On consideration you probably have to leave USB plugged in if you're using an internal partition save.

The alternative is placing Puppy internal (the easy part), and just using the USB to boot (a little tricky but doable). It still leaves Windows untouched save a little space on your internal HD.

If your machine boots USB, you don't need Lick.

This is the Windows installer I use: https://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal ... -as-1-2-3/

JASpup wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:15 pm

I have never done this, but supposively** Puppy is supposed to support discretionary placement of pupsaves.

My pupsaves have always been on the boot partition.

The reason I mention this is: if you can boot from USB at all, you can keep Puppy on it and put your pupsave on an internal partition. How does this work?

This is what I would attempt as a newbie on a Windows machine with an aversion to USB thumb drives staying inserted. The primary reason is not having to alter your Windows boot record. Keep thumb drive out, and it's a normal Windows machine.

You can have an elaborate Puppy setup without ext[n] formatted partitions. I did not install Puppy on an internal partition until many months after I first used it. Elegance is the way.

**this not an English word, but I have been using it since I was a teenager.

I think I get what you are saying. So basically I use the USB to boot then take it out when I'm booted in to the OS? It's still kind of an ugly solution, but definitely something to keep in mind.

williwaw wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:40 pm

old thinkpad? how old and which model?

with all your problems, I would eliminate some possible hardware issues first
1. have you ever changed the cmos battery? a weak cmos battery can cause bios and boot issues

I can't boot from a USB anymore.
EDIT: NVM "LICK Boot Loader" set itself to my highest priority boot in BIOS, I put my USB before it now.

you can boot without issue from puppy usb now? if so why not install a different bootloader to your HD from puppy run off the usb?

It's a thinkpad 11e from about 2015, so not really that old but still qualifies as a clunker imho from how low spec it is.
CMOS battery would be my last suspicion given that boot works perfectly every time. I would be much more interested running a check on the hard disk as I'm pretty sure either windows 10 is a defective POS or my hard drive is borked and causing the unusual windows behavior that I mentioned b4.
I don't want to run a bootloader from a USB. It's not a serious solution for a person as airheaded as myself. I'm going to leave it somewhere or lose it at the most inopportune time just when I need to use the OS the most lol.

bigpup wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:26 am

Sorry, I totally forgot that Windows 10 does not, by default, have support for read/write to Linux ext formats.

You can add this support.
There are drivers and programs that can be added to Windows that will let it see Linux formats.
Here are some to add support to Windows.
https://www.howtogeek.com/112888/3-ways ... m-windows/

Lick, by default, is designed to install Puppy Linux, as a frugal install, on the Windows C partition, and make a boot loader menu, to give option on what to boot.
Windows or Puppy Linux.

I kind of assumed Lick could do installs to other partitions, if they could be read and written to.

Ok so lets assume that I am a BIG DUMB. I don't understand how it can "install" puppy on the C: drive and still have both windows and it work??? Does it just keep the puppy files on there in windows formatting?? If it's not possible to write to other disks then why would Lick even let me choose the destination disk? So surely it does work. My stupid README error is probably exactly because like you said I lack the drivers to write linux formats. That explains everything. I wish a saw your post earlier, However I am not confident that my windows 10 install is functioning correctly. So I've decided to try this last.... (continued)

JASpup wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:45 am

JASpup wrote: Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:15 pm

The reason I mention this is: if you can boot from USB at all, you can keep Puppy on it and put your pupsave on an internal partition. How does this work?

On consideration you probably have to leave USB plugged in if you're using an internal partition save.

The alternative is placing Puppy internal (the easy part), and just using the USB to boot (a little tricky but doable). It still leaves Windows untouched save a little space on your internal HD.

If your machine boots USB, you don't need Lick.

This is the Windows installer I use: https://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal ... -as-1-2-3/

OK to both you and bigpup's point, I frugal installed fossa' on the aforementioned E: drive. I was kinda hoping that GRUB from Lick would magically pick it up but it doodn't. In the install wizard on puppy on my USB it mentioned installing a grub bootloader but warned that It could damage my UEFI windows loader on my C: drive if I tried installing it there. Basically what I am hoping is that there is either some way to feed the GRUB that I already have installed the information to give the boot option to the puppy on E: OR alternatively to create a new bootloader on E: or some other partition other than C: so that (hopefully if it's possible) I can change boot order in the bios to load either the windows booter or the puppy booter when I want to switch between them. I don't see any logical reason why this won't be possible since in my BIOS it shows both LICK and the windows booter as boot options, unless it won't read boot options from an abstract partitioned disk drive like my E: drive for some reason?>?? If GRUB can't boot to puppies on other drives for some reason then the bios solution would be far preferred over the USB one because I don't intend to be switching back and forth often at all so going into bios to change the boot order once a blue moon is not an issue and carrying a USB stick just to boot is a solution, as I mentioned but it's ugly as heeeeelllll.

If nothing else works then I'm installing the linux write drivers on windows and giving lick another shot.

TLDR =
how to make installed puppy on E: be bootable without touching my windows garbage?:?>:> thanks

In the install wizard on puppy on my USB it mentioned installing a grub bootloader but warned that It could damage my UEFI windows loader on my C: drive if I tried installing it there.

If you are now talking about one of the installer programs that are in Puppy Linux.
you need to specifically tell use which one
It is hard to tell you how to use a specific program, if we do not know which one you are trying to use.
Most of them are not designed for doing duel booting installs alongside Windows 10.

Programs in Puppy have options and sometimes too many options.
This is just telling you this option is not the best to use dealing with Windows. So do not choose that option.
The normal default boot loader install should work OK.

in my BIOS it shows both LICK and the windows booter as boot options

If you are seeing this when it boots.
You have it correctly installed by using Lick.
This is the boot loader screen that provides option on what OS (operating system) to boot.
Here you decide which OS to use to boot the computer.

I don't understand how it can "install" puppy on the C: drive and still have both windows and it work???

Puppy Linux installed as a frugal install (All the Puppy files in a folder), can be installed to any location any format. (ntfs, fat32, ext 2, 3, or 4, f2fs, etc.....)
Whatever operating system is on the location. (example: Windows)
Sees the Puppy frugal install as nothing more than a folder, like any other folder.

Puppy Linux is designed to operate from this frugal install and do everything, inside of this frugal install folder.
The files inside the frugal install folder, are special SFS package files, that are a Linux file system, inside a file.
Linux is not like Windows.
Linux, by default, has ability to read/write to many more formats, than Windows does.

This is one of the main features of a frugal install.
All it needs is some space to place the frugal install folder.
A boot loader setup to boot it.

I've been trying to avoid this because:
(a) I don't like over-writing boot-loaders and
(b) It requires that a newbie do some manual stuff.
But this is what we know:
You have a partition on your hard-drive formatted (now) Linux Ext3.
You can boot into Fossapup64 on your USB-Stick, albeit that setup employed Ventoy so did not decompress the Fossapup64 ISO;
That version of Fossapup64 is functional.
You have the grub2 bootloader on your hard-drive, albeit it's config file is named lickgrub.cfg.

1. Boot into your Fossapup64 on the USB-Stick. Just above the taskbar will be desktop icons for each of the drives and partitions your system can access. Hovering the mouse over each will show its size and formatting. Left-Click the partition on which you want your Fossapup64 to be located on.
2. When the window opens, Right-Click an empty space and from the pop-up menu select New>Directory. Give it a name such as 'fossa64'. Left Click that folder to view its contents (currently none) and leave it open.
3. Your USB-Stick also has a desktop-drive icon above the taskbar. Probably the one on the far right. Maybe named sdb1. Use hover, per above, to identify it if in doubt. Left-Click it to open a window to its contents. Look for the Fossapup64_9.5.ISO. [I don't know if Ventoy created 2 partitions on the USB-Stick: If so, check both. Left-Clicking a folder opens a window to its contents, including folders it contains. Left-Clicking the UP-Arrow on Rox's toolbar takes you out of a folder up to its 'parent' folder where you can see the folder you just left as a folder.
When you find the Fossapup64 ISO, Left-Click it to mount/open it so that you can see and access its contents. You'll see several files including the following:
intrd.gz,
vmlinuz
puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
adrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
fdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs > This may not be there; It's in mine, but I may have added it
zdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs

Left-Press, HOLD, then drag each of those files from its window into the folder I referred to a 'fossa64' in Step 2. From the pop-up menu, select copy.
If you see a file or folder named fossapup64save DO NOT copy it, yet. That's where the changes you make are stored. It is currently being used and can't be accurately copied when in use. Once you have Fossapup64 running from your hard-drive you can copy it over to its folder.

You now have Fossapup64's base system files on your hard-drive. There are a couple ways to get a boot-loader onto your hard-drive which boot into it AND Windows. There are two I recommend:
The easy way:
While still running Fossapup from your USB-Key, download grub2config from here, viewtopic.php?p=29703#p29703. The previous instructions had you do the 'manual install' that mentioned. Left-Click the pet to install it. Initially it will only be in RAM (not included in your SaveFile/Folder) but you can activate it by:
Menu>Exit>Restart-x (AKA Graphical Server). Fossapup will re-catalog what makes up its system, taking into consideration even those applications only in RAM. Then run it from Menu>Setup>Grub2 Bootloader Config.
Its First GUI will offer two places to locate its files. The first will be your hard-drive. Click its radio-button if not already selected. The 2nd choice would be your USB-Stick.
Grub2Config will examine all the drives (hard-and-USB) attached to your computer and present a GUI something like this:

You'll want to select sda1 as its location and UEFI boot loader if your computer has that (I don't). Grub2Config should then write a new boot-loader and a grub2config file to sda1. As you can see from grub2config thread it will create a grub.cfg file offering the choice to boot into either fossapup64 OR Windows 10.

The hard-way::
You already have a grub2 bootloader. It's config file is named lickgrub.cfg and it doesn't have a listing for your fossapup64 on your hard-drive. You should be able to edit it. Using the instructions given above for file-browsing into and out-of folders, examine what fossapup64 sees as sda1. [I don't have a setup using LICK; so can't be specific]. It may be in a folder named 'boot', or a folder within that folder. You can edit it to read as follows:

menuentry 'Fossapup64 9.5 '{
search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid YOUR HARD-DRIVE'S uuid
linux /fossa64/vmlinuz psubdir=/fossa64b pmedia=ataflash pfix=fsck
initrd /fossa64/initrd.gz
}

To obtain your hard-drive's UUID, open a terminal and type the command:

blkid

You'll get a read-out something like this:

From the above, you can see that the 3rd partition --the one on which my Puppys are located--is identified as UUID="39ff128d-806e-45a0-9c0c-4013859ec05d"
So, the second line of my grub.cfg reads:
search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid 39ff128d-806e-45a0-9c0c-4013859ec05d

Make sure you pick the right UUID. If in doubt, mount/open each partition using the desktop drive icon and remember on which 'sda' partition the 'fossa64' folder was on.

I don't recall if Fossapup64 came with lxterminal. If not, use Puppy Package Manager to install it and use it to enter the 'blkid' command. You can cut & paste text from its window into your text editor and vice-versa.

Not important at this stage. First let us know if you were successful. If not, tell us in detail, what you observed..

If you are successful, you will notice that the 'linux' line above includes the argument pmedia=ataflash. By default it will read pmedia=atahd. Ask about the difference.
Once you've been able to boot into Fossapup64 on your hard-drive, you can:
1. Boot into it.
2. Plug in your USB-Key.
3. Copy your SaveFile/Folder from your Key to the fossapup folder on the hard-drive; and reboot.

Pupper wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:24 am

I don't want to run a bootloader from a USB. It's not a serious solution for a person as airheaded as myself. I'm going to leave it somewhere or lose it at the most inopportune time just when I need to use the OS the most lol.

Have you considered installing puppy to a sd card? you could put some tape over it if you are worried about loosing it.

mikeslr wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:39 pm

(a) I don't like over-writing boot-loaders and

I agree with mike, and always first try to find a way to install to a second disk if possible.

puppy is designed load the entire os into memory, so it runs surprisingly fast even if the booting is a bit slower when using a sd or usb

Pupper wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:24 am

I think I get what you are saying. So basically I use the USB to boot then take it out when I'm booted in to the OS? It's still kind of an ugly solution, but definitely something to keep in mind.

It's a glorious solution. The USB becomes a switch that doesn't adulterate your internal hard drive. If you do not need to save settings, you can keep Puppy on your USB instead. Boot then remove. Ask other Linux users to dare, and laugh at Windows users.

I only have one computer that doesn't run like this because of a special feature compatible with XP. In the XP boot I choose Puppy.

Think deeply.

bigpup wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:46 pm

In the install wizard on puppy on my USB it mentioned installing a grub bootloader but warned that It could damage my UEFI windows loader on my C: drive if I tried installing it there.

If you are now talking about one of the installer programs that are in Puppy Linux.
you need to specifically tell use which one
It is hard to tell you how to use a specific program, if we do not know which one you are trying to use.
Most of them are not designed for doing duel booting installs alongside Windows 10.

Programs in Puppy have options and sometimes too many options.
This is just telling you this option is not the best to use dealing with Windows. So do not choose that option.
The normal default boot loader install should work OK.

in my BIOS it shows both LICK and the windows booter as boot options

If you are seeing this when it boots.
You have it correctly installed by using Lick.
This is the boot loader screen that provides option on what OS (operating system) to boot.
Here you decide which OS to use to boot the computer.

I don't understand how it can "install" puppy on the C: drive and still have both windows and it work???

Puppy Linux installed as a frugal install (All the Puppy files in a folder), can be installed to any location any format. (ntfs, fat32, ext 2, 3, or 4, f2fs, etc.....)
Whatever operating system is on the location. (example: Windows)
Sees the Puppy frugal install as nothing more than a folder, like any other folder.

Puppy Linux is designed to operate from this frugal install and do everything, inside of this frugal install folder.
The files inside the frugal install folder, are special SFS package files, that are a Linux file system, inside a file.
Linux is not like Windows.
Linux, by default, has ability to read/write to many more formats, than Windows does.

This is one of the main features of a frugal install.
All it needs is some space to place the frugal install folder.
A boot loader setup to boot it.

I didn't know that frugal install was so cool. Anyways sorry the actual installer I was using was the first option "frugalpup" because the text claimed "supports uefi recommended option" Inside there was a puppy option and a boot option; the boot option warned me that it could damage the windows booter if I tried to install it on C: Sorry it was vague.

williwaw wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:44 pm

Pupper wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:24 am

I don't want to run a bootloader from a USB. It's not a serious solution for a person as airheaded as myself. I'm going to leave it somewhere or lose it at the most inopportune time just when I need to use the OS the most lol.

Have you considered installing puppy to a sd card? you could put some tape over it if you are worried about loosing it.

mikeslr wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:39 pm

(a) I don't like over-writing boot-loaders and

I agree with mike, and always first try to find a way to install to a second disk if possible.

puppy is designed load the entire os into memory, so it runs surprisingly fast even if the booting is a bit slower when using a sd or usb

I got burned by an SD card b4 so never again lol. I can proudly say that I don't even have a single one of the devilish things in my house, but you are right it is a good idea to tape up thee SD card slot anyways just in case to further protect myself from SD cards.

@mikeslr I am working on your solution.
blkid works. And I've located lickgrub.cfg (finally). it seems puppy numbers the sdaX drives on their actual order on the disk, my laptops first partition seems to be a recovery partition of some sort so my C: drive is actually sda3 not sda1 (don't ask where sda2 is, I can't find it lol). lickgrub.cfg is right in the root of C: and I'm a big dumb dumb that I didn't find it b4.

sda4 (my E: drive) is configured in ext3 and has a "lost+found" folder and a "puppy" folder where I have installed puppy from the frugal install wizard b4.

I thought to myself that this would be easier if I could copy+paste from this thread directly so I tried to set up my wireless internet and ran into another problem. I appear to be missing wireless drivers. Using "Barry's Simple Network Setup" I see in my interfaces tab that I only have a "eth0" interface, "wired" type, "r8169" driver, "pci" bus, "RealTek RTL-8169 Gigabit Ethernet driver" description. The only other option I have is a MS Windows driver that it asks me to point to the .inf file. How do I get wireless LAN to work?

well poop.

Finally it shows in GNU GRUB on startup " *Fossapup64 9.5 " AND " Windows " as options!!!@!@@!@!@ YAY SOMETHING FINALLY WORKED AS EXPECTED LOL

but the bad news is that when I click fossa it says "error: file '/fossa64/vmlinuz' not found. error: you need to load the kernel first. Press any key to continue"

I have to go to work but I am sure that I just need to properly install puppy on the E: drive and it will work. All I did was follow the frugal install option on the install wizard, clicked "puppy" as an option and then pointed it to my E: drive that now contains as I mentioned b4 the lost and found folder and my puppy folder. I don't have time right now to check for the vmlinuz file, maybe the frugal files that i put into the puppy folder need to actually be naked on root of the drive or something idk, I'll check after work.

in the meanwhile if someone can suggest how to get my wifi network to work on puppy I would be grateful.

heres a dump of the stuff:

output of blkid:
/dev/sda4: UUID="26ad8a8f-02bf-4b54-86a3-a334a8f52aa6" TYPE="ext3" PARTLABEL="Basic data partition" PARTUUID="0af03e6a-9cac-4bdd-a314-2abbb2daf543"

new grub config folder:

## start header
insmod part_gpt
insmod part_msdos
insmod ntfs

set timeout=5
set default=0

insmod all_video
if loadfont /grub/fonts/unicode.pf2 ; then
set gfxmode=auto
set gfxpayload=keep
terminal_output gfxterm
fi

menuentry 'Fossapup64 9.5 '{
search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid 26ad8a8f-02bf-4b54-86a3-a334a8f52aa6
linux /fossa64/vmlinuz psubdir=/fossa64b pmedia=ataflash pfix=fsck
initrd /fossa64/initrd.gz
}

menuentry "Windows" {
insmod chain
search --set=root --file /EFI/Microsoft/boot/bootmgfw.efi
chainloader /EFI/Microsoft/boot/bootmgfw.efi
}
## end header

I gotta run ill be back in 10 hours or so if i have the energy to boot my pc ill check the thread again b4 bed. Thanks everyone for helping out! I'm sure I just have to properly install the puppy and if i can get my wifi to work then I will be damn golden!!!

It would be best, if you start a new topic, about getting WIFI to work.

Keep this topic, only about getting the install working.

It gets really confusing, trying to talk about multiple issues, in a single topic.

when I click fossa it says "error: file '/fossa64/vmlinuz' not found. error: you need to load the kernel first. Press any key to continue"

Your menu entry.

menuentry 'Fossapup64 9.5 '{
search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid 26ad8a8f-02bf-4b54-86a3-a334a8f52aa6
linux /fossa64/vmlinuz psubdir=/fossa64b pmedia=ataflash pfix=fsck
initrd /fossa64/initrd.gz

The psubdir=/fossa64b in the entry.
Try making it:
psubdir=/fossa64

check the files inside the fossa64 folder(directory)
Make sure all these are in it.
initrd.gz,
vmlinuz
puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
adrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
fdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
zdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs

Ditto what bigpup last posted. My apologies.

I have two frugal fossapup64 installs on my hard-drive: one I mostly leave alone [fossapup64a] and the other in the fossa64b folder which I use to explore possibilities. Having suggested the name "fossa64", I wanted the sample grub.cfng stanza to use that name. The problem with 'cut & paste' when you clean it up to 'generalize it' is that you have to be careful. I deleted the 'b' from each of the original 'fossa64b' terms, but missed that one following psubdir=.

I think of Windows as more menacing than garbage. They want us captured doing things their way when it obviously isn't superior, just different. I have been giving them credit lately for standardization, but I digress...

Computers are complex, but our brains can make them unnecessarily so when solutions are straightforward.

If it helps, there are three basic issues:

a) where Puppy resides
b) where the bootloader resides
c) UEFI/BIOS'S ability to boot a partition set up for it

If you can go into UEFI and choose your boot order, put something, another internal partition or USB, to look there first.

Then you set up your bootloader on the first chosen partition to recognize every connected os. This part is not idiot-proof and usually takes the most time.

I infer every experienced user here does it.

Lick is kind of a canned solution for a specific need. If you can boot from USB, I would not think about it much.

It is difficult to be clear when confused, but this is the elegant way to get going. Looking at what you've already done reads like entanglement.

I booted this machine from USB then removed it. Puppy is on the USB. It is also on the HD (a choice). Windows is also on the HD. I could have chosen any of them. That is what is possible.

You can install Puppy from a pristine state, but when your setup is complicated, you want an easy route to get going.

My understanding is you want to keep Windows and you don't want a USB protruding. Presumably you also want to save changes with pupsaves.

In that position I would put Puppy, not installed, on an internal partition and use a USB thumb drive to boot it.

If your computer has multiple, usable partitions and you can specify an alternate to your Windows partition in your UEFI, that is an alternative, but I have not tried it.

I have success using USB flash drives as boot keys.

bigpup wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:50 pm

It would be best, if you start a new topic, about getting WIFI to work.

Keep this topic, only about getting the install working.

It gets really confusing, trying to talk about multiple issues, in a single topic.

Sorry I got a little excited and forgot abt the rules! I'll make a new topic

bigpup wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 3:01 pm

when I click fossa it says "error: file '/fossa64/vmlinuz' not found. error: you need to load the kernel first. Press any key to continue"

Your menu entry.

menuentry 'Fossapup64 9.5 '{
search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid 26ad8a8f-02bf-4b54-86a3-a334a8f52aa6
linux /fossa64/vmlinuz psubdir=/fossa64b pmedia=ataflash pfix=fsck
initrd /fossa64/initrd.gz

The psubdir=/fossa64b in the entry.
Try making it:
psubdir=/fossa64

check the files inside the fossa64 folder(directory)
Make sure all these are in it.
initrd.gz,
vmlinuz
puppy_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
adrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
fdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs
zdrv_fossapup64_9.5.sfs

Changed my after reading the code instead of just copy pasting it I changed my puppy install form location E:/puppy/*all the stuff* -> E:/fossa64/*all the stuff*.
Also changed psubdir=/fossa64b -> psubdir=/fossa64.
And it works now!!!! On first exist I setup a save file and a swap file and it looks like everything works!!!!

mikeslr wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:07 pm

Ditto what bigpup last posted. My apologies.

I have two frugal fossapup64 installs on my hard-drive: one I mostly leave alone [fossapup64a] and the other in the fossa64b folder which I use to explore possibilities. Having suggested the name "fossa64", I wanted the sample grub.cfng stanza to use that name. The problem with 'cut & paste' when you clean it up to 'generalize it' is that you have to be careful. I deleted the 'b' from each of the original 'fossa64b' terms, but missed that one following psubdir=.

That's hilarious! I'll be honest I don't even know what language the code in the GRUB cfg is written in so I didn't bother reading it very careful like, but now that I read it again some parts are making more sense. I think even if the fossa64b thing didn't happen it still wouldn't have worked cause my puppy was installed in a folder called "puppy" (this is why u don't give your users an option of what to call it in the wizard lol). From what I can manage to intuit from the code it looks like you can have as many menuentry 'x'{ } on grub as you want? From what I understood from your post you have two puppy installs and that is why there was some leftover fossa64b in the code lol right? So as long as I point to the correct disk using it's uuid and the correct name of the directory then I can copy paste the menuentry code and have as many boot options as my heart desires??? Just out of curiosity, does this work with other linux based OS's like Ubuntu or does this GRUB only load puppy's?

mikeslr wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:39 pm

If you are successful, you will notice that the 'linux' line above includes the argument pmedia=ataflash. By default it will read pmedia=atahd. Ask about the difference.

Whats the difference?

And while I am at it, I think it is topic relevant to also ask what is the difference between a "full install" in the wizard and a "frugal install"? As bigpup already mentioned a frugal is basically just the files sitting there in a folder like any other files, I get how that would be beneficial to keeping puppy on the windows C: drive, but I was just wondering if there is some trade off compared to a "full" install? If frugal is identical in every way to a full install wouldn't it be superior because of it's I guess "adaptability" for lack of a better term? Is there some case where the "full install" option is better? Obviously puppy works from RAM, but I'm wondering if I load a heavy program like whatever linux's equivalent to Garageband is or a program like Blender or CSP would that take a performance hit or have longer load times or something? IDK I'm just speculating lol but there must be a reason to have the two different install options right?

JASpup wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:40 am

I think of Windows as more menacing than garbage. They want us captured doing things their way when it obviously isn't superior, just different. I have been giving them credit lately for standardization, but I digress...

No it is garbage. Among other issues I haven't been able to do a windows update in like 2 years lol. Clearly it is not working as intended. The main benefit of selling your soul to BILL is that he PROMISES you SAFETY in the form of frequent security patches. My main desktop (win10) has updated like 2 dozen times since my laptop was last able to complete an update. I don't feel safe even connecting it to wifi at this point lol.

JASpup wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 7:40 am

It is difficult to be clear when confused, but this is the elegant way to get going. Looking at what you've already done reads like entanglement.

I agree whole heartedly! Frankly my entire life can generally be summed up by the word "entanglement"! If I had known that windows can't write linux formats without installing drivers for it then this thread would have ended a lot sooner. If I had known that frugal puppy can live on C: without conflicting with the windows file system format I would have never partitioned my hard drive to give it it's own linux formatted disk partition. I would have just used LICK properly and been done with it in like 10 minutes! etc. etc. etc. I hope I wasn't too bothersome to everybody! I learned an awful lot and ironically became quite a lot more comfortable navigating my computer. At least I'm not scared of opening BIOS anymore baby steps you know?

Pupper wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 10:51 am

Just out of curiosity, does this work with other linux based OS's like Ubuntu or does this GRUB only load puppy's?

Yes, and no. The grub2 application, itself, should work. But the grub.cfg arguments would be entirely different. Most Linuxes require an entire partition for themselves. Puppys are designed to run as 'Frugal' installs to a folder and that is what you have. Searching may reveal examples of what to include in a 'menuentry' stanza. Fortunately, now that you have a Puppy running, you don't have to figure things out, yourself. Into your running Puppy you can install shinobar's Grub2config, viewtopic.php?p=29703#p29703. It will install a boot-loader whose grub.cfg will provide a listing for both Puppys and MOST other Linuxes. But it replace the current grub2 application and lickgrub.cfg with its own grub.cfg. If you're thinking about other Linuxes, you're probably better off before you get deep into the woods to create a dedicated partition now, even if you don't populate it for awhile.

mikeslr wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:39 pm

If you are successful, you will notice that the 'linux' line above includes the argument pmedia=ataflash. By default it will read pmedia=atahd. Ask about the difference.

Whats the difference?
See this post, viewtopic.php?p=43310#p43310. Basically, with the pmedia=ataflash argument, Fossapup64 'thinks' its running from a USB-key and provides you with the Save Icon on the desktop. Without no argument or the default pmedia=atahd, Fossapup will AUTOMATICALLY write everything to your hard-drive. Having to manually Save isn't necessary. Some people like the convenience of not having to remember to do that. But READ the above post which details the steps I take even though I have 'tons' of hard-drive. I only have to remember to Save if I've install a new application or changed my settings and customizations. The 'Pros and Cons' are discussed in this post, viewtopic.php?t=444. By the Way open Menu>System>Puppy Event Manager, Click the 'Save Sessions' tab and see what interval was assigned. I think Fossapup defaults to 0/zero with a 'check-mark' in the "Ask at Shutdown box". You can change it to some other interval, and uncheck the box. But than you won't be taking advantage of no Automatically Saving.

And while I am at it, I think it is topic relevant to also ask what is the difference between a "full install" in the wizard and a "frugal install"? As bigpup already mentioned a frugal is basically just the files sitting there in a folder like any other files, I get how that would be beneficial to keeping puppy on the windows C: drive, but I was just wondering if there is some trade off compared to a "full" install? If frugal is identical in every way to a full install wouldn't it be superior because of it's I guess "adaptability" for lack of a better term? Is there some case where the "full install" option is better? Obviously puppy works from RAM, but I'm wondering if I load a heavy program like whatever linux's equivalent to Garageband is or a program like Blender or CSP would that take a performance hit or have longer load times or something? IDK I'm just speculating lol but there must be a reason to have the two different install options right?

As mentioned, Puppy was created to be a Frugal install. At that time computer commonly sold with 128 Mbs of RAM, and having 500 Mbs of RAM was a luxury few could afford. CPUs were single-core. Puppys' version of Full Install was developed because it enable booting slightly faster. The Web is the mother of all malware. A basic part of a 'Frugal' Puppy's security is that it 'Runs in RAM' and on shut-down what wasn't Saved evaporates. Puppys run as 'Root/Administrator' having full access to everything and full authority to do anything. Other Linuxes limit a User to his/her own folder, requiring passwords to install anything, and even then providing limits on what can be done. A 'Full Install' Puppy has no such limits. Whatever mistake you make, whatever malware you pickup while surfing is immediately written to your hard-drive. IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO FIX a broken or corrupted Full Install.
Today, with fast CPUs and Gbs of RAM, the 'slightly faster' is measured in micro-seconds. The only justification anyone has posted for doing a 'Full Install' is when engaging in such 'RAM intensive' activities as compiling applications. To which someone running frugally replied, "I set it up just before going to sleep and let the computer run while I'm sleeping". Some else mentioned running two versions: a Full install just for compiling; a Frugal for everything else. That may have been a post before a SaveFolder was devised.
For the most part, since your Fossapup is on a Linux formatted partition, you can have the best of both worlds. When you first shut-down, you were asked if you wanted to Save. The default and recommended option was a Save Folder. A SaveFile has a fixed size you can increase. But a SaveFolder will, as needed, use the entire available space on a Linux formatted partition.
Although Fossapup's menu may still offer an installation program providing the 'Full Install' choice, it won't work with --will entirely screw up booting-- a UEFI computer. It's still possible to create a Full install; but you'd have to ask how.
You wondered about a 'performance hit'. I'm not familiar with the applications you mentioned except blender which runs well in a Frugal Install. I think there's another factor you may not be aware of or overlooked. Compared to what? If your frame of reference is the performance of a Linux designed to run a Full Install --e.g. Ubuntu, Manjaro, LinuxMint-- they are constructed to constantly read-from/write-to Storage rather than just manipulate information in RAM. I think the estimate is that each such action takes 15 time longer.
Untested by me. But if you run into problems using 'RAM intensive' applications, you might try setting up a 2nd Frugal install on which you create a SaveFolder and do not use the boot-argument pmedia=ataflash. Better yet, start a new thread and ask.

I am very angry at Bill Gates and Microsoft as well, but I also like to think depersonalized/meta to see things for what they are.

I am here due to withheld Windows 7 recovery media. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I started in Mint XFCE.

I prefer not updating unless something does not work.

Even still beholden to Windows, Linux is better for the Internet. Obviously there are threats here as well. I can't use my security camera software without Windows and specific browsers.

Knowing what you're doing in advance saves a lot of headaches.

More elegance (for compatibility): Puppy internal file formats are Linux, but we do not need to directly interact with them, while FAT32 and NTFS are suitable for compatibility.