Discussion: Where should UPup32 go next?

[peebee]

Ubuntu 23.04 “Lunar Lobster” Release Date Slated for April 20th, 2023
only be supported with software and security updates for nine months, until January 2024

https://9to5linux.com/ubuntu-23-04-luna ... -20th-2023

LunarPup32-23.04 ............ maybe

[peebee]

LunarPup32 - first test build:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/zestyp ... t-Version/

Fairly sane, but there is an issue with Cups...........

Screenshot.png (220.78 KiB) Viewed 3519 times

[Clarity]

My 32bit Netbook is trashed. It is no longer a viable alternative with the progresses accomplished across the board since 2008. It is not a Puppy/Linux issue, its hardware as there are so many better, often FREE choices in give-aways or dumpter dives; if not new. The OSes are not replacements for hardware. The better the hardware, the better our experiences.

Will you bee producing a 64bit version of this distro for forum use?

[peebee]

Will you bee producing a 64bit version of this distro for forum use?

You keep asking this - and the answer is the same as before - No!

[Rantanplan]

Hi @peebee ,

Thanks to you to build 32bit distros.

I have downloaded LunarLobster and ran it : all is right.

Only at this time, "Connect your android phone" doesn't work entirly : I can't see my files, tree only.
I "workarrounded" it with Camphonetab or simple-mtpfs-0.3.0-i686_common32.pet and associated libraries.

Best to you.
And many thanks again from France.

[peebee]

LunarPup32-23.04+2Alpha

More updates & LXDE ydrv

Updates + cups & samba fixes

[peebee]

LunarPup32-23.04+3Alpha & LXDE ydrv

Just Ubuntu updates

[peebee]

Mantic Minotaur
Ubuntu 23.10 is due for release on October 12, 2023
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2023/04/ubu ... e-revealed

[peebee]

First test build.........

Screenshot.png (160.92 KiB) Viewed 2931 times

[tosim]

peebee-Will you be posting a link soon? Thanks for all you do.

[peebee]

peebee-Will you be posting a link soon? Thanks for all you do.

Nearer the MM release date - 12 October 2023

[peebee]

b26fbd9612df825900e0b3d803af8494 ManticPup32-23.10-RC0.iso

(@tosim - for testing)

[tosim]

@peebee Am doing the dl as I type this. Thanks for the heads-up. Will comment in a few days. Thanks again.

[cobaka]

Hi @peebee

. . . The uPupBB32 terminal allows me to copy and past in a 'windowing'-like environment.
. . . The uPup64 does not provide this. When I want to copy from uPup64 I must use ctrl+"c". This has the same effect as tapping ctrl+C - resetting everything. It also drives the cursor to the bottom of the screen.

So far as "64" goes, importing the '32' functionality into '64' would be appreciated.
I would cry if the '32' functionality disappeared.

I appreciate '32'! It's the best!
собака.

[tosim]

@peebee First short stuff re "mm"-I frugal installed(naturally), to flashdrive. Boots up nicely-did not have to change to pmedia:usbflash.
Connected to net easily. Cannot get ppm updated in any of the 4 reps shown. Using the "get web browser":I dl Firefox.sfs and installed, and running well.
Am typing this out in it now. Well done, as always, peebee, and THANKS.

[peebee]

977c92828b990a2b4a85cfd83498234a ManticPup32-23.10-RC1.iso

https://sourceforge.net/projects/zestyp ... B/testing/

[peebee]

The next long-term support (LTS) release of Ubuntu, Ubuntu 24.04 'Noble Numbat', is scheduled to be released on April 25, 2024.

It looks like some 32-bit components will still be released (approx. same as Mantic):
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/ ... nary-i386/

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Numbat

The numbat (Myrmecobius fasciatus), also known as the noombat or walpurti,[4][5] is an insectivorous marsupial. It is diurnal and its diet consists almost exclusively of termites.

The species was once widespread across southern Australia, but is now restricted to several small colonies in Western Australia. It is therefore considered an endangered species and protected by conservation programs. Numbats were recently re-introduced to fenced reserves in South Australia and New South Wales.[6][7][8][9] The numbat is the faunal emblem of Western Australia.[10]

[peebee]

Bit OT but there has been some discussion of how long Debian and hence Ubuntu will provide 32-bit components............

Just noticed on Distrowatch:

In other words, it looks like Debian will continue to supply 32-bit packages, the project will just phase out install media for the aging architecture. Distributions based on Debian will be able to continue releasing 32-bit editions.

[dimkr]

Bit OT but there has been some discussion of how long Debian and hence Ubuntu will provide 32-bit components............

More off-topic stuff: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Ubuntu-x8 ... Experiment

Ubuntu already has many packages that don't work unless you're running systemd (especially after 20.04) so they're broken in Puppy, 32 bit support is gone (some distros already tell users to grab Steam from Flatpak, and don't package any 32 bit libraries anymore - Ubuntu might do the same), and now Ubuntu is evaluating the possibility of dramatically raising minimum system requirements by changing compiler flags (enough to drop support for many old but good <2015 Thinkpads that still work great today).

Ubuntu can no longer serve as a base for a (good) Puppy release, the hack of mixing semi-compatible packages from different distros will stop working one day.

[peebee]

Preview.....

Screenshot.png (157.05 KiB) Viewed 521 times

[peebee]

https://sourceforge.net/projects/zestyp ... %2B/alpha/

[peebee]

Problem - solved:
viewtopic.php?p=112279

[peebee]

Looks to me like Ubuntu 24.04 is going usrmerge.........either partially or fully
bash and udev have already changed which has caused recent problems
so the question is should NoblePup32 go usrmerge?

it would make all .sfs which contain bin or sbin or lib unusable.........
and would make all old non-usrmerge kernels unusable.....
and would make NoblePup32 significantly different to JammyPup32

[bigpup]

Using core Linux files and programs from another Linux OS, should not require you to make it work the exact way, the other Linux OS does!

Only get what is needed to keep specific core files and programs updated, if that is really needed.

But keep in Puppy the core files and programs to allow it to operate the Puppy way.

Nothing says you must constantly update every file or program.

Change to using something new, should only be done, if it really does add some needed operational improvement and it must be done!

What makes Puppy different, it does not operate the same way, all the other mainstream Linux OS's do!

[dimkr]

Looks to me like Ubuntu 24.04 is going usrmerge.........

It already is. But Ubuntu inherits most packages from Debian, where usrmerge was default but not mandatory until recently, so thing worked although they shouldn't: if Debian (after 12) is usrmerge-only like most distros, forcing Ubuntu packages to run in a file system layout nobody uses can only cause compatibility issues with packages that assume identical contents of /bin and /usr/bin. Among other problems, you'll hit problems when you try build stuff from source.

[rockedge]

Is it possible to use the symlinks /bin -> /usr/bin, /sbin -> /usr/sbin, /lib -> /usr/lib, /lib32 -> /usr/lib32, /lib64 -> /usr/lib64 like Void Linux does to possibly retain enough compatibility to be able to load and run the older style file system arrangements in SFS packages created with out usermerge?

Would this be a way to increase the lifespan of these pre-usermerge SFS packages in Noble32 Puppy Linux variants?

[jrb]

Looks to me like Ubuntu 24.04 is going usrmerge.........either partially or fully
bash and udev have already changed which has caused recent problems
so the question is should NoblePup32 go usrmerge?

it would make all .sfs which contain bin or sbin or lib unusable.........
and would make all old non-usrmerge kernels unusable.....
and would make NoblePup32 significantly different to JammyPup32

I wrote a fairly simple script to convert non-usrmerge kernels some time ago. When placed in a frugal folder and the older zdrv is dragged to it, it extracts the zdrv, rearranges it and repackages it with the name of the resident zdrv. I have tested it extensively with good results.
I'm sure it could be easily modified to make any sfs compatible. My coding and GUI building skills are minimal so hopefully someone else will take this on.

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
#open in terminal
tty -s; if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then xterm -hold -e "'$0' '$1'"; exit; fi

Adjust_SFS_Directories () {
   mkdir ${WKDIR}/usr > /dev/null 2>&1  #Make sure /usr is present for directory transfer
   if [ -d ${WKDIR}/bin ] ; then cp -fr ${WKDIR}/bin  ${WKDIR}/usr; rm -fr ${WKDIR}/bin; fi
   if [ -d ${WKDIR}/lib ] ; then cp -fr ${WKDIR}/lib  ${WKDIR}/usr; rm -fr ${WKDIR}/lib; fi
   if [ -d ${WKDIR}/lib32 ] ; then cp -fr ${WKDIR}/lib32  ${WKDIR}/usr; rm -fr ${WKDIR}/lib32; fi
   if [ -d ${WKDIR}/lib64 ] ; then cp -fr ${WKDIR}/lib64  ${WKDIR}/usr; rm -fr ${WKDIR}/lib64; fi
   if [ -d ${WKDIR}/sbin ] ; then cp -fr ${WKDIR}/sbin ${WKDIR}/usr; rm -fr ${WKDIR}/sbin; fi
}

DST=`dirname $0`
echo $DST
cd $DST

for i in `ls zdrv*.old`; do BS=`basename $i .old`; mv -f $i $BS; done

ND=`ls *.sfs | grep "puppy" | cut -d "_" -f 2-` 
echo $ND
PLC=`pwd`
echo $PLC
echo $PLC/zdrv_$ND
mv $DST/vmlinuz $DST/vmlinuz.old
mv $DST/zdrv_$ND $DST/zdrv_$ND.old
TR=`dirname $1`
echo $TR
cp $TR/vmlinuz $PLC

BSNM=`basename $1 .sfs`
echo $BSNM
mkdir -p /tmp/SFS/wkdir > /dev/null 2>&1  

WKDIR=/tmp/SFS/wkdir > /dev/null 2>&1
SFSDIR=/tmp/SFS
rox ${WKDIR}
rm -frv ${WKDIR}/*
unsquashfs -f -d ${WKDIR} /$1
Adjust_SFS_Directories
mksquashfs "${WKDIR}" "$PLC/zdrv_$ND" -comp xz -Xbcj x86 -b 512K

[mikeslr]

I have no coding skills but figured something like jrb's script could be done because ITSMETRSH did something similar with PaDS 1.17 in order to handle debian/ubuntu's decision to locate 64-bit libs in three folders (/lib, /usr/lib, and /usr/local/lib)/x86_64-linux-gnu) rather than in the parent folders, themselves.

Someone with coding skills should double-check jrb's script. When satisfied, a pet should be created and posted to the Software Utilities Section.

AFAIK, a reverse-script isn't necessary: NON-usrmerge Puppys will search all '/bin' and '/lib' folders.

[peebee]

Well, I've tried to do a usrmerge build of NoblePup32 and all did not go well.....

I set USR_SYMLINKS=yes in _00build.conf
but the build failed....

Looking at 3builddistro:
the chroot at line 713
is attempted way before line 1096:

Code: Select all

[ "$USR_SYMLINKS" = "yes" ] && usrmerge rootfs-complete 1

and therefore the earlier chroot fails.....

Also.... the busybox petbuild when run during a NoblePup32 build puts busybox into /usr/bin and so /support/busybox_symlinks.sh fails

@dimkr - how should a usrmerge build be done? Help appreciated!

[dimkr]

the chroot at line 713

You can remove it, I don't know why it exists in first place.

Also.... the busybox petbuild when run during a NoblePup32 build puts busybox into /usr/bin and so /support/busybox_symlinks.sh fails

Fails with what error?

if /bin is a symlink to /usr/bin, creating a symlink in one also creates it in the other.

EDIT: try https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/4245 (not tested), maybe this is it