Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

DistroWatch
https://distrowatch.com/

On the right side of this web page is a page hit ranking.
Suppose to be a count ranking of how many times people access the page about the specific Linux OS.

Right now Puppy is at 23 on the list.

If a bunch of us go to DistroWatch.
Click on Puppy on this list.
It will take you to the page all about Puppy Linux.
That will count as a page hit.
This should move Puppy Linux up the list.

I still like the fact that Puppies:
Average rating
8.9

Is still higher than the number 1 on this hit ranking.
Reader supplied reviews for MX Linux
Average rating
8.6

Even higher than Ubuntu.
Reader supplied reviews for Ubuntu
Average rating
7.6

Mint is close, but Puppy is still better.
Reader supplied reviews for Linux Mint
Average rating
8.7

Help Get The Puppy Hit Count Higher!

23rd is quite a respectable rating.
Puppy is better than most of the higher rating distros.

Higher rating on Distrowatch?

Then improve the Puppy further. There are many pending pull request on woof-ce right now which improves the puppy if it was merged.

Do you know if it counts if you click puppy linux in the distrowatch list from the same computer every few days? I visit the distrowatch pretty regularly hoping to see it rise in the popularity ranking.

I was more surprised that EndeavourOS is already higher than Manjaro (both are based on Arch). How quickly things change in this world. What kind of people, no long affections

I'm pretty sure the distros at the tippy top of the list are all promoting their distrowatch page on Google etc to get hits.

Will do it daily. BTW-As of 1000 AZ time, USA= Average visitor rating: 8.9/10 from 160 review(s).

How quickly things change in this world

I'm still running UPUP 3.9.9.2 and Tahr 6.0.5

Then improve the Puppy further.

What exactly? pulseaudio instead of ALSA? More eye candy (bloat)? Easier install? More variety of packages? More hand holding and warm fuzzy feelings? I'll have to check out the pull and merge requests at woof-CE. I've been doing more WeeDogLinux as of late

mistfire wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:05 pm

There are many pending pull request on woof-ce right now which improves the puppy if it was merged.

I think the problem is not the number or variety of improvements that go into Puppy or woof-CE, but the lack focus and organization.

PPM is horrible, and it's been this way in every Puppy release for years. I think the same about the various network interface management wizards. The list goes on and on - lack of translations, bad Bluetooth support, high CPU usage due to lack of VA-API plus drivers, etc'. Instead of focusing on solving big problems that make Puppy a bad choice for many users, we build many puppies, based on different Ubuntu/Slackware/Debian/whatever versions, with different DEs and different kernel versions, and the same fundamental problems and lack of polish.

In addition, Puppy's development is super messy. Therefore, some problems in a particular Puppy version return in another - for example, missing firmware for some WiFi interfaces. Problems are reported in the forums, and they're not managed using a ticketing system (even woof-CE's issues page on GitHub is better than the forum for this kind of things), so new versions can't be tested for regressions. And it's impossible to release a .1 version with fixes, if the .0 version was built with manual modification to woof-CE, which make it impossible to pull the latest woof-CE changes, or build a Puppy derived from a release, using woof-CE.

xenial wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:40 am

23rd is quite a respectable rating.
Puppy is better than most of the higher rating distros.

GNU / Linux is a big family that supports ... As I sometimes say "I love my country, my neighbor I hate"

xenial wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:40 am

23rd is quite a respectable rating.
Puppy is better than most of the higher rating distros.

Last time I checked it was 19. If the ranking is arbitrary, it's all in good fun, but if it's supposed to mean something, Puppy could legitimately be in the top 5 with the will.

I'm flabbergasted how bloated other distributions are for their relative offering.

rockedge wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:11 pm

What exactly? pulseaudio instead of ALSA? More eye candy (bloat)? Easier install? More variety of packages? More hand holding and warm fuzzy feelings? I'll have to check out the pull and merge requests at woof-CE. I've been doing more WeeDogLinux as of late

LXQt & XFCE on the main download page (not puplets) and user-friendliness (peebea is almost there. 64 would be critical). Then I would post competitive pages and media. Think populism.

Lean and efficient is implicit in the Puppy mission and its advantage, so no bloat, mostly facility and invitingness. I don't care if you're a drunken transsexual hooker from the closet of a Tesla plant if we can turn off our identities and have a cooperative and productive discussion.

Experts here do not discuss installing from Windows like they're addressing a Windows user, but like an Arch Warrior defect -- it's too technical. Last time I checked the main website discusses installing Puppy from dd, so on easier install I would say yes. Any distro can appeal to a technical audience, but that crowd is intrinsically small vs. the metaverse.

@JASpup I've been constructing some OS's lately with xfce4 and pulseaudio. I prefer a JWM - ROX combo myself but can see xfce4 as a good step forward as well. The OS's I make are basic foundations. The user makes it their own.

I haven't met any tranny hookers from Tesla yet, though a dev over at Zoneminder I know wrote a lot of code for them.

I've only installed a Puppy Linux once using dd. Mostly I do it manually or recommend using the variety of tools available to to the do the procedure.

There is always EasyDD! There are already plenty of distros that are easy and super user friendly (so they say).

dimkr wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 5:55 pm

PPM is horrible, and it's been this way in every Puppy release for years. I think the same about the various network interface management wizards.

Have you seen the Synaptic Package Manager?

the Software Center or the Software Boutique?

sudo apt-get?

PPM is relatively great up to version 2.12.

The various network interface wizards I interpret to be a cobbled together struggle to get networking to work, and for that I accept its lack of straightforwardness. If other distros' basic networking is foolproof, you may have a point, but otherwise it seems like the Puppy evolution is necessary.

I might argue for most users on wi-fi Frisbee could be more out front, and the other utilities a fallback for those looking for them.

@rockedge audio was a main productive goal before being sucked into the Linux learner vortex, so I confess not knowing the difference between between Pulse and ALSA.

I see ALSA in the Audacity config, and maybe it's also the mixer?

A persistent hurdle on my lone 64 is too many audio I/O connections to where I can't even figure out how to capture the main mix. The list covers the full vertical screen like the number of wi-fi networks you'd see in SNS in downtown San Francisco.

The rest is really my soft take on anyone's goals.

I want B.
B requires A.
I don't really want to do A, even though it's not a big deal.

I don't want B. Q.E.D.

Correct me if I am wrong. BUT, doesn't those ranking result from the actual downloads of PUP forum distros that are listed on Distrowatch? That being the case, no recent Puppy forum distros are announced on Distrowatch where users would download new PUPs. Thus the Distrowatch abilty to track downloads resulting from user activity on Distrowatch does NOT occur except during those periods of new PUP announcements.

Is there a way to 'artificially' inflate the downloads to affect PUP rankings?
Is that proper?

Curious

Clarity wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:31 am

Is there a way to 'artificially' inflate the downloads to affect PUP rankings?
Is that proper?

This (with subjective particulars):

I think the problem is not the number or variety of improvements that go into Puppy or woof-CE, but the lack focus and organization.

The amount of energy diehard aficionados put into this is enough to raise the rank naturally, so why bluff a b.s. factory?

JASpup wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:54 am

The amount of energy diehard aficionados put into this is enough to raise the rank naturally, so why bluff a b.s. factory?

All my work in https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... or%3Adimkr, is it pure b.s.?

Hi @JASpup

JASpup wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:26 am

... I confess not knowing the difference between between Pulse and ALSA.

I see ALSA in the Audacity config, and maybe it's also the mixer?

A persistent hurdle on my lone 64 is too...

I dont know if you will find this helpful, but when I started down the rabbit hole couple weeks ago, along the way I found this video. It is easy to understand and I feel was a big help in the relationship of these current audio advancements.

I recommend this for anyone who wants to "place" the audio (and now video) direction of Linux.

Hope this is helpful

dimkr wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:54 am

All my work in https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... or%3Adimkr, is it pure b.s.?

Clarity wrote about artificially inflating Puppy's rank. I simply intended that it doesn't have to be artificial.

DistroWatch Page Hit Ranking
show the number of times a distribution page on DistroWatch.com was accessed each day,
Only one hit per IP address per day is counted.

If a bunch of us go to DistroWatch.

Click on Puppy on the page hit ranking list.
It will take you to the DistroWatch page all about Puppy Linux.
That will count as a page hit.
This should move Puppy Linux up the list.

At one time, a few years ago, Puppy was Number 2.

The bad thing about this hit ranking list.
People think it is some kind of usability ratting.
Some ratting of how good it is.

Does distrowatch count IP addresses from which computer you use or which internet setup you use?

Here's my post from August when Puppy was 19: viewtopic.php?p=35583#p35583

I remember time when Puppy was in top 10 (2011) on DW. The best place was 7th in 2009

hundido wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 10:53 am

Does distrowatch count IP addresses from which computer you use or which internet setup you use?

https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity

https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity

This was prompted by a continuous abuse of the counters by a handful of undisciplined individuals who had confused DistroWatch with a poll station.

People, maybe we'd better not turn into a "handful of undisciplined individuals" ?

Puppy's user interface is antiquated. We need an XFCE or LXQt Puppy on the master downloads page, where the casual user will see it listed.

That user isn't going to search the forums to find XFCE or LXQt Puplets, they're just going to pass Puppy by and go on to other distros in their search.

I've been installing Linuxes on computers for charity since about 2005. Charity computers are 5 to 12 year old machines that have been cast off by their original owners and donated to charity.

Years ago, I always installed Puppy on the donated computers. It was the only distro out there that would run fast on them and bundle a complete set of tools.

Today, Mint with XFCE runs on 5 to 12 year old computers just fine. So I install Mint/XFCE, because clients like its interface better.. and in fact these days will complain that the Puppy interface is too primitive for them. (I can't install something as unofficial or unsupported as a Puplet).

PS-- This post is not meant to be critical of Puppy, which I have benefited from for many years. It just seems to me we have an obvious marketing problem we could fix.

Today, Mint with XFCE

I myself sometimes like to compare with Mint. And then I object to myself

Mint and other distros from the top five of the rating exist on the money of sponsors. They have a permanent team. In addition, they have multiple desktop environments coerced into the same style - but the "guts" are the same.

Puppy is the collective name of all related distros that different people do in their free time. "Guts" - anything can be under the hood.

What conclusions can we draw from the above?

benali72 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:15 pm

Puppy's user interface is antiquated. We need an XFCE or LXQt Puppy on the master downloads page, where the casual user will see it listed.

There is LXDE for Slacko7 as ydrv.sfs module.

It could be added to CD iso in the same way as i added it to my HD syslinux boot menu.

Someone could make other DE as sfs modules.

benali72 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:15 pm

Years ago, I always installed Puppy on the donated computers. It was the only distro out there that would run fast on them and bundle a complete set of tools.

Today, Mint with XFCE runs on 5 to 12 year old computers just fine. So I install Mint/XFCE, because clients like its interface better.. and in fact these days will complain that the Puppy interface is too primitive for them. (I can't install something as unofficial or unsupported as a Puplet).

Yes, times have changed completely really. Aside from a few fifteen year old machines kept running for novelty, the era of Pentium 3 and even up to Pentium Mobile class machines has basically been over for a while now so the old Puppy minimalist system isn't really key anymore - not for installation on machines that are nowadays ten or less years old anyway, so you are spot on benali.

That comment is however related to what the majority of the general public find acceptable to them as users. Of course they will want as sophisticated a desktop as they can run on their computers at responsive enough speed - so nowadays it is not surprising at all that something like Linux Mint/XFCE will fit the bill and Puppy will not. It is a different matter for 'enthusiasts' and tinkerers on this forum though - many of these are as much tinkerers who enjoy playing with Linux distros and squeezing as much out of them as they can - Puppy remains great for such activities, but that kind of audience is never going to push it to the top of Distrowatch rankings - not fairly anyway.

There is one specialist area where heavily slimmed down distros is very useful though (and always will be) and that is for when a machine is wanted to be set up for a particular dedicated purpose, such as a Zoneminder video surveillance system. Otherwise, for a bigger audience than those of this Puppy forum, I have no doubt that Puppy traditional is not an attractive answer nowadays. However, I'm not myself picking at JWM/Rox-pinboard combination - in terms of producing a really slimmed down distro that has quite a functional desktop it is actually pretty good, but certainly it has limitations. Main problem technically with Puppy is that it was never designed with anything but root user permissions in mind, and it sticks to sysVinit and used to stick to simple Alsa for sound when upstream (where all its PPM or similar repo packages come from) assume a typical multi-user Linux system with PAM user/group permissions model security, pulseaudio (with likely pipewire future) and systemd (which is indeed invasive in terms of dependencies nowadays - like it or not).

Imagine giving your non-technical friend two computers: one a Puppy install and one a Linux Mint XFCE install. Which one do you think they would happily use? Of course, when they are trying Puppy and wanting some special facility working, you will tell them to visit this forum to seek technical answers (often involving commandline wizard fixes) - come on - no chance!

Grey wrote: ↑Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:41 pm

I myself sometimes like to compare with Mint. And then I object to myself

It's easier if that's where you started.

Mint and other distros from the top five of the rating exist on the money of sponsors. They have a permanent team. In addition, they have multiple desktop environments coerced into the same style - but the "guts" are the same.

Puppy is the collective name of all related distros that different people do in their free time. "Guts" - anything can be under the hood.

What conclusions can we draw from the above?

Conclude questionable premises. Not sure what you mean by "guts", but I'm in XFCE right now, and it's Puppy Linux. Peebea's newer Debian hybrid ydrv with more XFCE features still maintain Puppy integrity imo. The status quo of this is Puppy Linux and feel free to create off it is clear, but the discussion is not put forth of why it is necessary or why the compelling approaches of the top distros is undesirable.

Everyone's smart enough to understand reasons, even if they disagree. Does the money come before the product? The resources already exist to make the product. If they existed, would it not lead to more support, both financial and technical?

That is what I do not have experience in. Logically it seems like it would. Then the question would just become how responsible parties handle it, i.e., stability, growth, mission integrity, etc.

I like the approach of the X-series, e.g., X-Fossa, L-Fossa, J-Fossa.

My last multiboot install was the Xenial-era version of 32-bit Lubuntu at almost one gigabyte, still holding Abiword & Gnumeric instead of Libreoffice to save space. It has strengths but not enough to top an official L-Xenial if one existed.