Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Last week someone replied to my question about a more recent version of WINE for the ASUS by linking me to a download for a portable version.

If your computer is a Dual-Boot device, especially if Puppy Linux was installed on the hard drive via the LICK application, DO NOT USE THAT VERSION OF WINE!

Efforts to use it on the XP/Puppy Linux 5.2.5 Lucid Sony VAIO failed as it was unable to load the SFS file. As it turns out this was a good thing.

In Puppy Linux 6.0.5 Tahrpup mode on the ASUS I was able to install it. It did not seem any better than the 2.4 PET/1.7 SFS setup I was using, but upon going back to Windows 8 mode that's when the trouble started.

First, the ASUS was exceedingly sluggish. After several tries problems included: the background I use did not appear. The icons either did not appear or took a long time to do so. Any attempt to view Library folders, the "C" folder, "D" folder, or "Computer" caused everything to "blank out blue" then slowly reappear. I was alerted to a corrupted "C" folder, and although I ran the repair option nothing had changed. It was a mess to the point where I backed everything up to date with USB sticks in order to do a hard reset on the thing until something occurred to me.

Assuming that whatever I had done the previous day- installing but not saving Puppy Linux 5.7 Precise Lite and the portable WINE- was causing the trouble I removed the distro and attempted to delete the WINE folder, but couldn't- Windows claimed it wasn't there even though it was.

So, back into Puppy Linux mode, and so could delete it. All of it. And the SFS file as well.

Go back to Windows 8 mode, and everything was back to normal. Well, as normal as Windows can be.

The problem is clearly this: normally WINE, be it by SFS or PET file, is apart from the Windows part. The pseudo-Windows part is safely installed in the Puppy Linux distro itself, or (SFS) only interacts with Puppy Linux and is otherwise just there doing nothing.

But the portable version clearly installs in a way where Windows IS aware of it when running. The problem is that it is alien to it in just such a way so Windows does not know it is supposed to just ignore it yet cannot handle what is there. This is why the Repair effort failed. This is why setting the computer back to an earlier time failed. This is why the folder could not be deleted. An active folder placed in the "C" folder without Administrative permission even. Hence the computer cannot run properly because that folder interferes with it. This did NOT affect the Puppy Linux modes ( 6 and 8), but for Windows it is as bad as a virus.

As the Puppy Linux modes were not affected the portable WINE is probably safe for Linux/Puppy Linux devices but if your computer is a Dual-Boot like mine DO NOT USE IT. If you have and are experiencing problems remove it via Puppy Linux and try again.

@GusCE6 ,
Interesting report!! I will try it out on a Windows 10 machine that I can be messed with and see if I can reproduce this.

Hi GusCE6,

How did you deploy portable wine?

The instructions are: (1) download the tar.gz. (2) decompress it, e.g. Right-Click the tar.gz and select UExtract. A folder is created. The following shows its contents:

(3) Move that folder to the same partition on which Puppy is located, on the same level as the Puppy Folder.
(4) Running Puppy, Left-Click the "Register" bash-script. That creates links between the Puppy OS and the Wine-3.3...sfs and creates Menu entries in Puppy.

I don't have Windows 10. But I don't see how deployment of Wine portable can screw it up. The Wine application, itself, is confined to the wine-3.3...sfs*. Window's can't read it's contents and, even if it could, wouldn't know what to do with them so would ignore them. The only other executable files are essentially bash-scripts. Windows doesn't read bash-scripts; and doesn't execute them.
By any chance did you previously install cygwin into Windows 10?
My best guess is that your experience has nothing to do with Wine-portable and everything to do with Windows 10 being an operating system created by a money-hungry corporation to be foisted upon unsuspecting consumers who use it because "we've always used windows".
Windows is zealous of any space it controls. It might not have responded well to any use of that space by Wine-portable. But that would also be true of space used by Puppy, itself, any portable, any SaveFile* and the things you install into that SaveFile, any SFS*, any AppImage, any file you locate in 'ITS' space other than by using IT.

Edit: Just figured out how locating wine-portable on a Fat32 or ntfs partition can create a means to screw up Windows. And a work-around.
The wine-data folder (shown in the above graphic) has the same formatting as whatever partition it's on. Within that are exe files which wine uses. They are at .../wine-data/drive_c/windows. You can probably boot into Windows, use its Explorer to file-browse to those executable files and run them. The effect on your Windows system is not likely to be helpful.
The work-around: Don't do that.
-----
* SFSes and SaveFiles are Linux formatted Space. OOTB, Windows can't read or use Linux formatted Save. Did you install some program which enabled it to?

Windows 8 mode that's when the problems started

That is your first problem.
Windows 8.

Should be some way to boot it into recovery mode.

Never used Windows 8, but found this info.
Booting Into Safe Mode on Windows 8

While the computer is booting up the trick is to hold the Shift button and keep pressing the F8 key.
This will sometimes boot you into the new advanced “recovery mode”, where you can choose to see advanced repair options.
You will need to click on the Troubleshoot option.

@GusCE6 / @mikeslr :-

Heh! An interesting concept, to be sure; a real-time, sandboxed WINE 'prefix', running inside Puppy, which, due to being installed via LICK, is itself running directly inside Windows proper....

And because of that installation mode.....which uses a save/file only.....the WINE-portable could not be run externally to Puppy as is the normal way (because that would place the portable WINE immediately amongst the Windows system files).

Hoo, BOY. Makes the head spin just thinking about that one. I reckon the WINE-portable would have to run from within Puppy ('cos of the save-file).....which would negate the whole point of running a 'portable' in the first place.

I don't understand LICK. I haven't run Windoze for so long I'm not qualified to comment, TBH. But I feel a LICK 'install' is perhaps one of the very few instances where WINE-portable simply isn't practical.

-----------------------------------------

Gus:-

You don't by any chance have this thing installed in your Windows8, do you?

Ext2fsd

Mike.

Just to note the edit to my previous post and to add that what I wrote about Windows 10 also applies to Windows 8. XP wasn't bad; and I kind-of like Windows 7.

I followed the instructions. The problem did not occur while in Puppy Linux modes, only in Windows 8 mode.

I also do know about starting in Safe Mode. While trying to get a new install of Windows XP running on the Sony I must have used that a thousand times.

Remember that LICK turns a device into a Dual-Boot system. When you switch it on you are asked which mode you want to use. This is the only reason Puppy Linux 5.2.5 Lucid works as well as it does on that ancient Sony VAIO: it's either one or the other- trying to run one inside the other would work, but just try to do ANYTHING requiring any amount of resources and see where that gets you. But hey, it does emulate ColecoVision, Atari 5200, and Genesis perfectly- oh, and the KEmulator and DOSBox 0.74...

If "EXT2FSD" is on the ASUS I did not put it there myself. Reading the warnings and descriptions...there would be no reason to put something that hazardous on it.

The ASUS got me to "Troubleshoot" mode by itself.

When using LICK the application handles any problems with space. In effect it "gets permission" to put the Puppy Linux distro on the computer and share the space with Windows. But I'm guessing that in the case of portable WINE this is not the case, and Windows 8 did not know how to deal with an uninvited guest that just seemed to appear out of nowhere- keep in mind that Windows was NOT running when I installed the works so when I did run it- who are YOU? EEEEEEK!

GusCE6 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:26 am

When using LICK the application handles any problems with space. In effect it "gets permission" to put the Puppy Linux distro on the computer and share the space with Windows. But I'm guessing that in the case of portable WINE this is not the case, and Windows 8 did not know how to deal with an uninvited guest that just seemed to appear out of nowhere- keep in mind that Windows was NOT running when I installed the works so when I did run it- who are YOU? EEEEEEK!

Oh, aye; that sounds about right. I'll relate a wee example I found out just recently.

When I bought this HP desktop rig nearly 2 years ago, the very first thing I did was to boot from a Puppy 'LiveCD' and nuke Windows 10 with extreme prejudice. I didn't want Whinedoze putting its smelly claws anyway near my system.

As part of my mod duties over at BleepingComputer, despite being Linux-only I still get dragged into threads in the various Windows sections of the forum from time to time. The other day, the subject was the Hirens Boot CD 'repair' disk, and the discussion was about which version was the better one to use.....

To cut a long story short, I got reading up about it. Seems the current release is built around the Windows 10 PE build; this is the "Pre-Installation Environment", and is pretty much what used to come on the installation disks before the whole install model changed. In other words, it's the ONLY version of Windows that will run as a "LiveCD".....which is of course why its used.

I was curious enough to download it, burn it to disk & just take a quick look at it; that was going to be the closest Windoze would ever get to running on MY rig.

The Redmond 'beast' is a very jealous animal; it fiercely protects its space, and immediately marks its territory the instant it finds itself in a new location. Hirens was only running for less than 5 minutes, but after shutting it down and ejecting the disk, I found a RecycleBin $ file on my boot partition (all 128 MB of it!).....and for days afterwards I kept finding index.dat files all over the place..!

Never again.

Mike.

Legend has it that.....One day.....someone or some group will make a Windows "frugal" install........with interchangeable kernels......

"Legend?" More like "Myth."

Only because Windows plays more games that I like is it still on the ASUS.

But I'll try and figure out how to use it in some Virtualbox on Puppy Linux 6.0.5 Tahrpup (maybe Windows XP or 7). Then I can get the best of both worlds; with 8GB RAM it should work out even better than with WINE. Can anyone tell me how?

The stock (one included in the ISO) kernel in tahr-6.0.5.ISO is kernel 3.14.56 PAE. norgo has published virtualbox-5.1.10-112026-i686.sfs for that kernel. viewtopic.php?p=1767#p1767.

Other than your reading up on how to use virtualbox on Puppys --of which I know little-- you may be able to just download norgo's gift and put it to use. Remember to thank him.

I'm not sure either 'myth' or 'legend' are appropriate adjectives. Maybe 'prophecy'. If my flaky memory serves, didn't Microsoft decide to use Linux Kernels going forward? If so, the upside for Microsoft is the financial savings resulting from its making use of the productive efforts of scores/hundres? of volunteers. But the downside for Microsoft is that it's products will be much more easily manipulated. The upside for us would perhaps be the end of the perennial problem: manufacturers of hardware only providing drivers for Windows.

UPDATE:

While I cannot be 100% certain, it seems as though portable WINE ruined the ASUS' Operating System.

Luckily I had things backed up on USB sticks so I was able to just wipe out everything and reset the ASUS. Its Defender is going to need updating of course but now everything works fine.

DO NOT USE THIS VERSION OF WINE IF WINDOWS IS INVOLVED ON YOUR DEVICE.