Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

I think I may have mentioned this in the past, but cannot find it in my profile, so here goes: If you're looking to place multiple iso's on a flash drive and boot from them, checkout: https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html. This screenshot shows only a few that I have on my 32GB flash. Using "drag and drop" you can place almost ANY iso, in Ventoy and boot
from it. There is even an option for "persistence".

Clarity has provided some very good info and guide, on exactly how to use Puppy Linux, with Ventoy.
viewtopic.php?p=38449#p38449
This is the best way for using Ventoy with Puppy Linux.

This being the how to section of the forum.

How about providing a little how to info, on using this for multiple Puppy installs, on a USB?

If done in a running Puppy version.
Is this the way you need to do it?
https://www.ventoy.net/en/doc_linux_gui.html

I notice in the info for using the Windows Ventoy2Disk.exe in a running Windows OS.
Warning:
After install, the 1st partition will be formated in exFAT, and you can manually reformat it with FAT32/NTFS/UDF/XFS/Ext2/3/4.
Puppy Linux has very little support for exFAT and some older Puppy versions may have no support for it.
From very new Puppy version:
.

.
So manually reformatting would seem to be the best way to go for Puppy Linux.
Fat32, Ext2/3/4

How does it handle making a Puppy save file/folder and using it?

While in Mint20.0, I dl'd the ventoy1053 iso, installed it, then opened a terminal inside that folder, and ran: "Ventoy 2Disk.sh",(from that folder). Followed the simple
instructions, and in a few minutes, it was done. Once you have placed whatever iso's you'd like to have on it, properly eject the flash drive. When you boot from
the flash drive, the iso's are arranged alphabetically, and you click on whichever you want to. Removing an iso from the drive is as simple as "delete", or "drag
and drop". ( If more required, I can continue tomorrow, however, the website is very well documented.)

This set of steps should be reasonably feature complete. Please advise if anything found missing so that users wont have problems using the app opened by this thread's OP. It is here to add information in the use of the solution.

Having been an Ventoy user for over a year (since v1.0.13), I have a simple Ventoy deploy that provides booting on ALL PC platforms no matter BIOS or UEFI while it doesn't matter if they are Secure boot enabled or not.

It involves a very simple structure which includes NOT ONLY a Ventoy USB, but also a necessary folder that completes booting on ALL platforms for almost EVERY bootable ISO file. Also the addition of the SG2D ISO file will insure compatibility with PUPs & DOGs, no matter the platform. This means ALL PUPs, whether they are old PUPs or modern PUPs will be capable of being booted via their ISO file directly as if they are a Frugal installed PUP.

There are 3 elements that are REQUIRED to make this possible.

1. Ventoy ONLY supports booting via a USB stick

2. Keep ALL ISO files in a folder on the USB; namely /BOOTISOS (this is a folder requirement for booting any modern PUP/DOG that Ventoy cannot boot AND does NOT impact the booting of ANY ISO files)

3. Insure a SG2D ISO file is included in the /BOOTISOS folder as well as all of your other ISO files you will boot.

Warning: If you DO NOT FOLLOW the folder requirement, there are some PUP related issues that will surface. (too numerous to discuss) Advice: Strongly urged to insure the folder is created and contain ALL your ISO files.

Procedure for use insuring you will be able to boot all versions of PUPs and DOGs

1. Create a Ventoy USB stick

   • Video for LInux users

   • Video for Windows users

   • A recommended Puppy specific set of steps will be forthcoming HERE

2. Add /BOOTISOS folder on the stick

   

   Ventoy-USB.png (59.24 KiB) Viewed 6376 times

3. Add all ISO files to the /BOOTISOS folder on partition #1

4. Add SG2D ISO file to the /BOOTISOS folder on partition #1

   

   BOOTISOS contents.jpg (39.11 KiB) Viewed 6160 times

5. Boot the Ventoy USB and It will find and list ALL ISO files in the BOOTISOS folder of the USB

Select any ISO file from the list presented. When the ISO presents its Menu, edit the 1st line to add a PSAVE parameter telling the PUP where you want your save-session to be stored. This assures PUPPY knows and YOU know where to find it when you happen to reboot. I, personally, keep ALL of my PUP-DOG sessions saved in a folder on my system drive. This step ALSO assures you have no issues and no lack of understanding when your session is saved at the end....should you choose so. Here's an example of telling Puppy where to save by adding it to the PUP's Linux line:

vmlinuz ... psave=sda7:/Sessions/

This is done as follows:

If the PUP hangs for fail for any reason, then reboot the Ventoy USB to select the SG2D ISO file listed. Using SG2D, SG2D will successfully list and boot modern PUP ISO files successfully as well as any other OS(s) you have installed on your system.

Hope this is helpful to ALL PUP users who choose to use Ventoy to directly boot PUPs/DOGs ISO files to the desktop. Using the requirements I outline, will insure success no matter the platform, the BIOS, the UEFI, the PC, etc.

This process have been tested for couple years and is as successful in booting ALL PUPs and DOGs found on the forum!

Please understand that using my instructions to boot to any PUP-DOG desktop does NOT require ANY boot-time manipulation for a PUP to get to its desktop. THAT MEANS "no boot-loader efforts are needed!"

Merely click your ISO file

Clarity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:30 pm

as if they are a Frugal installed PUP.

"as if" includes the ability to have persistence? ie, the ability to create a save file or folder?

@williwaw YES.

Your PUPs & DOGs will behave exactly as a Frugal...EXACTLY!

Thus, sessions work the same. You can also follow this forum thread for continuing developments in effortless booting.

All the efort for this to work, as it does, is already done by the Puppy Linux & DOG developers.

DpupBullseye-970-beta1.iso works ok over SG2D and able to create DpupBullseyesave.3fs in ventoy-usb

easypup-2.5.1-en.iso fail to boot from ventoy menu and not in SG2D list menu.

quickpup64_21.08-beta-9.iso boots fine in both ways, but video resolution wont change and no option to save anywhere in ventoy-usb

SG2D can not detect all isos

@esos your findings are correct.

@BarryK has admitted that his recent creations are NOT a PUPPY. As such, he does NOT use the modern PUP/DOG boot-manager processes that the WoofCE PUPs use.

The SG2D process works for almost every PUP-DOG that has been created since December 2019. There is only 1 modern WoofCE forum distros, since, that is not found and cannot be presented for boot by SG2D.

For all others, you merely copy the ISO file to the /BOOTISOS folder on your USB and click to boot it.

The problem(s) you share should be posted on the PUP's thread as it is probably one that is specific for all users of that PUP. Please report them.

The modern PUPs is all cases should behave as if it is a Frugal that all of us users are accustomed.
Reason: You are using all the same files that the Frugal process uses...without modification. You are booting native PUPPY LInux.

BTW: YOu may have also noticed that all of the Ubuntu official vaiants also are found, presented, and boot exactly as the modern PUPs and forum DOGs do.

@esos I ask:
Are you booting a SG2D USB OR are you booting a Ventoy USB where you are selecting the SG2D ISO file?

Both approaches yield the same result for SG2D booting modern PUPs-DOGS, but am just curious which you have tested.

Thanks in advance for your answer

Just follow the step #3 :

"Insure a SG2D ISO file is included in the /BOOTISOS folder as well as all of your other ISO files you will boot".

Edited the topic subject to better indicate what this is about.

I downloaded the Ventoy package ventoy-1.0.56-linux.tar.gz from their download location.
Used UExtract to UN-compress it.
Opened the UN-compressed location in Rox file manager to see it's contents.

Followed the directions here:www.ventoy.net/en/doc_linux_gui.html to install it to a USB flash drive.
I was running a 64bit Puppy version.
Clicked on the VentoyGUI.x86_64 file.
Made the correct location entries in the GUI.

It made two partitions on the USB drive.
1st one, most of drive space ,formatted exfat.
2nd partition all the Ventoy files and directories.

I decided to reformat the 1st partition to ext3.

I made a directory on the 1st partition named BOOTISOS
Placed several Puppy version iso's in it.

It boots to a Ventoy menu listing all the Puppy ISO's
Select one and it boots.

Clarity wrote:

Insure a SG2D ISO file is included in the /BOOTISOS folder

I did not put SG2D ISO any place on the USB.
It boots OK for me.
The Ventoy files/directories, on the 2nd partition, seem to have all that is needed.

Great @bigpup!

Ventoy is very useful.

The reason for my suggestion to add the SG2D ISO file to the /BOOTISOS folder is that on some of my older PCs, booting some modern PUPs did not boot to desktop when booting directly from the Ventoy menu.

If a boot problem occurs when attempting to boot directly from the Ventoy menu list, one can click the SG2D ISO file from the list and be assured that the PUP will boot to desktop from the list SG2D will give.

So the SG2D ISO file is a fallback. Thus, you should view it as a safe-guard.

Questions

1. Did you create a GPT or MSDOS USB from the Ventoy creation script?

2. Is your USB capable of secure boot and have you tested with secure boot?

3. Have you noticed that Ventoy, like SG2D will list other 'installed' OS(s) it finds?

Just curious

P.S. To everyone: Ventoy offers several distinctly different USB sticks that it will build for use.

• MSDOS

• GPT

• No Secure-boot

• Secure-boot

Choose which best meets your needs for your machine(s) and your OS(s).
FYI

Clarity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:07 am

Ventoy offers several distinctly different USB sticks that it will build for use.

Hi. Does this mean there is no universality in these "miracle-hyper-nano" solutions? Do we still need to keep a whole "zoo" of different flash drives ?

Grey wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:57 pm

Clarity wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:07 am

Ventoy offers several distinctly different USB sticks that it will build for use.

Hi. Does this mean there is no universality in these "miracle-hyper-nano" solutions? Do we still need to keep a whole "zoo" of different flash drives ?

I read that to mean "options" which you wouldn't need any more than circumstances require; i.e. gpt for a very large USB-Stick with more partitions than ms-dos can handle; or UEFI if your Puppy didn't have it and you wanted to add it?

But it does raise a question. AFAIK, most Puppys (other OSes?) can't be booted from an External USB-Drive --i.e., a hard-drive plugged into a USB-Port. Would ventoy somehow enable such booting?

Yes, you can install it not only on External USB-Drive, Internal also.

Plauding YUMI for Redmond the only compelling cases I read about Linux tools are E2B and Ventoy.

For G4D & G2C I haven't needed them yet.

Booting .iso kind of throws me off though, and my most recent uses it seems like you lose control of the installation.

It's easier to extract those puppies when you don't have a reason not to.

Clarity wrote:

Questions

Did you create a GPT or MSDOS USB from the Ventoy creation script?

Is your USB capable of secure boot and have you tested with secure boot?

Have you noticed that Ventoy, like SG2D will list other 'installed' OS(s) it finds?

I used msdos for the USB partition table type.
I do not have any drives bigger than 1TB.
MSDOS partition table can handle drives up to 2TB.

I do not use secure boot, so can not answer that question.

Ventoy installed on the USB drive, only finds the ISO's I installed on the USB drive.
It seems to look only on the drive it is installed on and booting from.

But it does raise a question. AFAIK, most Puppys (other OSes?) can't be booted from an External USB-Drive --i.e., a hard-drive plugged into a USB-Port.

I boot from a USB connected hard drive.
It is a portable hard drive setup to connect to a USB port.
I set it up like you would for an internal drive.
Have several Puppy frugal installs.
A boot loader installed to boot them. Using Grub4dos boot loader. Have used Grub2 for the boot loader.

I do have secure boot disabled in the computers UEFI setup, so do not need the Puppy security key.
Having secure boot enabled in the UEFI setup, could be your booting issue, with external USB hard drive booting.
If the UEFI has legacy boot or CSM enable/disable settings. May need those enabled.

On my 2012 i5 booting from the Ventoy USB 32GB disk I have:

$ ./Ventoy2Disk.sh -l /dev/sdi
**********************************************
      Ventoy: 1.0.38  x86_64
      longpanda admin@ventoy.net
      https://www.ventoy.net
**********************************************

Ventoy Version in Disk: 1.0.38
Disk Partition Style  : GPT
Secure Boot Support   : YES

It boots ISO files. If I have any problem booting a PUP, I merely select the SG2D ISO file from the list and boot the PUP without failures.

All ISO files are kept on its Partition#1 in folder "/BOOTISOS". BOTH Ventoy finds the ISOs to list AND SG2D finds PUP/DOG/Ubuntu/MX (arch) contained there as well.

Its very simple and all PUP/DOG operations including save-sessions operate as PUP users expect.

Lastly, I include the above list as "an example" of a working solution that works for me on several PCs. (One day, I will take a moment to upgrade Ventoy to its current version. Yes, it has a non-destructive upgrade feature in the Ventoy2Disk script.)

FYI

Just wondering why ventoy is in first place for booting SG2D.iso?

can every puppy linux r/w EXFAT?
can SG2D work without ventoy?

I am confuse, pls explain!
Thanks

can every puppy linux r/w EXFAT?

No.
Some Puppy versions do not have EXFAT support built in, but can be added.
Most of the fairly new and newest versions have it.

Some of the older Puppy programs may or may not have code for working with EXFAT.
Even the latest version of Gparted (in newest Puppy version) has very little support to work with EXFAT format.

That was why I reformatted the 1st partition to ext 3 format. before putting any ISO's on it.

In my opinion:
Ventoy is not suitable to boot many pup/dog's
except you modify it to linux format.
I hope it will work fine for you.

There is many bootloader(s) like G4D, G4E(Grub4dos for EFI) or Grub2 etc. that realy working.

I am not impress about SG2D.iso booting over Ventoy.
(to many clicks just to boot one iso file, very slow booting and in my test it is not realy working "as if they are a Frugal installed PUP.")

See this quote:
"SG2D ISO file will insure compatibility with PUPs & DOGs, no matter the platform. This means ALL PUPs, whether they are old PUPs or modern PUPs will be capable of being booted via their ISO file directly as if they are a Frugal installed PUP."

Hi @esos These ISO files booters are different from traditional booting.

You are trying to hard to focus on the past. I do not recommend using older PUPs before Dec 2019 for SG2D. I hope you focus on where PUPs are today as they continue to add support for new files system, new hardware while maintaining compatibility with as much older as is possible.

These 2 booters you reference DO NOT CHANGE any PUPs or DOGs.

@bigpup recommendation, I wholeheartedly agree with as once the PUP-DOG is booted to desktop, it may not have that Linux subsystem support built-in the PUP-DOG. ... FACT!. And @bigpup is clear that the exFAT support might not be built-into the PUP. That fact does not, though, interfere with the PUP's operation, nor does it introduce stability or system performance issues of any sort. He does NOT indicate that, either. PUP operations are exactly as the PUP developer produces.

These booter services do work and work well to boot ISO files, directly, while eliminating MANY of the issues newcomers and less experience users run into with USBs and the issues needed to build Frugals or FULL setup.

@esos you make this comment

... in my test it is not realy working "as if they are a Frugal installed PUP."

What evidence can you produce that support that claim by you? In my several years of observation, I find no such occurrence. If you have something please produce as there may be something that is deficient in a PUP. Let us examine what you have expressed, please.

Please be aware that these attempts at reducing boot issues across the board intend to allow any of us to go directly from ISO file downloaded, to booting to the ISO's desktop with no effort. The USB that a user builds, he does so ONLY ONCE in the USB's lifetime while he adds/deletes ISO file forever in the USB's future. No more issues related to creating media from an ISO/IMG download.

You may not like either of these, personally as they are rather new for us, but so far they are working well for what they do for us.

As mentioned in the forum, both of these boot services provide their own support, costing NO development time for PUP-DOG developers. Yes they provides simple solutions for seeing and booting the PUP-DOGs downloaded but at no expense to the community, at large.

AS is the case with everything, nothing is perfect. If you like what they offer, I'm sure you will take advantage for your needs. If its not a perfect match for you, as you mentioned, there are other ways to manage how and what you use to get your modern PUPs/DOGs to desktop. These are only 2 of them with little to no effort to boot a modern PUP-DOG.

Hope this helps. And, PLEASE, if you found a Frugal issue (major or minor), please share that.

Ventoy 1.0.55 for linux installed to Sandisk 16gb usb 2.0 (sdb)

Configuration 1:
sdb1=fat32, iso file partition (reformatted after setup using gparted)
sdb2=fat16, Ventoy boot partition

ISO partition sdb1:
-3 Puppy linux, Precise 5.71, Stretch 7.5, and Fossa64 9.5
-Firefox portable, puppy linux
-Clonezilla, linux based
-Rescuezilla, linux based
-2 Windows PE, bootable Windows environment
-1.5gb of portable Windows programs (used with Windows PE's)

What I learned:
-On slower (dual core) computers there is a substantial increase in boot time, probably due to the overhead of unpacking the .iso files
-The 1.5gb of portable Windows programs added several minutes to the boot time since Ventoy was
searching them for ISO's. This was fixed by putting a file named: .ventoyignore
in the directory containing the programs (blocks the directory and all sub-directories)
-If linux is booted by Ventoy, sdb1 cannot be mounted so no linux portable or .sfs files in that
partition can be used. Also, no save file can be saved there unless the Ventoy program
CreatePersistentImg.sh is run to create the persistence container file.
-The puppy savefile programs don't offer any alternate drive/partition locations for the savefile.
This can be changed, but it requires editing (one time edit) the file /etc/rc.d/PUPSTATE so PMEDIA='' before saving and then
requires editing the boot parameters to add psave=sdb3 on every boot to use the file.
-If Windows is booted by Ventoy, sdb1 is mounted and the portable programs can be accessed
-For my use I needed another partition with r/w capability for linux portable/.sfs programs or simply
a place to store or transport files.

Configuration 2:
sdb1=fat32, iso file partition (reformatted after setup using gparted)
sdb2=fat16, Ventoy boot partition
sdb3=fat32, data partition (created during setup by reserving space, then formatting with gparted)

ISO partition sdb1:
-3 Puppy linux, Precise 5.71, Stretch 7.5, and Fossa64 9.5
-Clonezilla, linux based
-Rescuezilla, linux based
-2 Windows PE, bootable Windows environment
-1.5gb of portable Windows programs (used with Windows PE's)

Data partition sdb3:
-Firefox portable, puppy linux
-LibreOffice-6.1.4_64_en-GB_xz.sfs
-fossapup64save.3fs

This is the configuration I currently use and although it still has some limitations compared to a
frugal or more conventional install, it is a great tool with many advantages.

Thanks to everyone for the helpful tips.

wizard

I haven't tried Ventoy at all as yet (only briefly read some docs on its website).

I feel that SG2D alternative is pretty useful for quick iso boot checks, and for anyone who struggles with normal frugal installs. However, it does require the distro to have some special internal initrd/init code (and not just a loopback.cfg file) for successful SG2D boot. I had to include that recently for WDL distros to work with SG2D and that required a fair bit of development time overall, and results in initrd/init additional code complexity not needed at all otherwise.

If Ventoy requires some user-configuration work prior to it booting successfully, its point seems limited to me since could probably just as easily configure a 'normal' frugal install, which certainly remains my own preference anyway instead of booting from an iso file. Having said that, grub2 alone can boot from an iso file without needing Ventoy or SG2D (again depending on distro initrd/init code support) so the advantage of even SG2D is only the auto-search set up grub2 facility. Fact is, if an image was provided with only grub2 set up on it correctly, it is really quite simple to create the grub.cfg stanzas for booting isos rather than normal frugal installs (but pretty much just as simple setting up the normal frugal installs.........).

So, all in all, though I haven't tried Ventoy itself, I find SG2D useful for that one simplicity it offers those who struggle with manual frugal install configurations. In practice, it does complicate save persistence mechanisms, however (and sounds like Ventoy complicates such matters more), and other distro-offered options (such as alternative locations for various other addon files). So I certainly don't think using the likes of SG2D provides by default 'all' the same functionality of a normal frugal installation. However, it can at times provide very close to that depending on the developer effort put in to support it by which I mean "code for SG2D compatibility' inside distro initrd/init. Like I say, for SG2D, that involves considerable more than just setting up a loopback.cfg file appropriately - sometimes substantial internal distro initrd code support is required; I do not know, but imagine that similar applies to Ventoy alternative.

@wiak

Just to note all of the iso files, 3 Puppy, 2 Ubuntu (the "zillas"), 1 Win7 and 1 Win10 booted without problems. It would be interesting to see if WDL would boot without the special code.

wizard

@wizard are those Ubuntu Live versions? Do those Puppy's have loopback.cfg included?

@wizard I offer a recommendation (and to everyone). So that you have the very BEST of all worlds, you "may" want to put all your ISO files in a folder on partition #1 named "BOOTISOS". This does NOT create a problem with Ventoy. It is NOT required for Ventoy operations, but Ventoy will find them and list them from there as well.

The advantage, as mentioned before, if anyone runs into a problem booting a modern PUP-DOG under Ventoy, then you should know that comfort occurs by booting the SG2D ISO file. It will find the PUP-DOGs list them as well, and will boot them to desktop.

This recommendation is merely a successful and tested aid for PUP-DOG users. Keep all your ISO files in BOOTISOS; it is good housekeeping as well.

P.S. There is NO requirement to follow this recommendation. The recommendation is merely here to insure that PUP-DOGs will be found if running Ventoy. The different BIOS & UEFI (32bit/64bit) do not behave the same with the multiple Ventoy setups that user will adopt. As such, this can/does lead to some problem in PUPs.

SG2D has only 2 ISO files both of which have been tested and both are consistent in booting, so far, for the modern PUPs and DOGs, including WDL in the forum. Thus, using the ISO via Ventoy it is a fallback to booting the PUPs.

There is NO post processing of either Ventoy or SG2D USBs. The USBs are made once and forevermore, you only add ISO files to the BOOTISOS folder on either USB you choose to use. All PUP fucntions and expected behaviors of the desktop operations we have used forever with PUPs continue as if you had done an actual Frugal... except "NO frugal setup headache are involved".