jackalpup -- Achieving a productiive workstation

[geo_c]

DISCUSSION CONTINUED FROM viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3855&p=35654#p35654

@JASpup wrote: ↑31 Aug 2021 08:55

@geo_c wrote: In the end I believe it's a matter of practice and understanding which tools do the job, and it's similar to the choices I make when playing and composing music. By trial and error I assess things like learning curve, dependability, stability, and flexibility to make decisions on what systems and apps to invest my energy.

I appreciate and admire that position, especially as you portray more artistic than technical, and getting a DAW working in Linux is one of the more difficult endeavors.

I am not a musician, more of a tinkerer, yet the technical PC music aspect has always been daunting. I liked LMMS but need a score for editing and had latency problems.

I have a Windows DAW that supports soundfonts like LMMS but it requires a Soundblaster. With the latency, it all makes sense.

Working with audio that isn't sampled we either have to treat a PC like a multitrack or cut up recorded pieces played (or MIDI'd), or attempt MIDI & audio in the same project and hope for the best.

It's almost like without internal control of audio (e.g., soundfonts), we need a dual system, one for performance and another for capture.

I began believing naively a 16-channel multitimbral synth = 16 channels of synthesizer audio and a DI guitar could sound like an AC30 mic'd.

Lucid is the base of one of the Puppy Studios I booted, 4 I think. Also where I first saw Cairo.

I am still bogged down on the system. E.g., with a 2T HD being more than I needed, I'm attempting to make constructive use.

One of my biggest fears is losing Redmond restoration media, so I just tried to clone a 3GB DellRestore partition in XP, and it stayed at 10% for 25 minutes.

So instead of trying to clone it, I'm going to try backing it up to a 3rd space and restore. It's tedious after a while but hopeful.

I dropped a Windows 7 laptop 4' to tile a couple years ago which brought me to Linux. Redmond or the PC maker wouldn't provide restoration media. Mint brought it to life but crashed while Puppy is chugging along.

Maybe someday Linux will always be good enough.

Wisely I ought simplify.
On the Whiz-Neophyte Bridge
Linux Über Alles
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[geo_c]

@JASpup you raised so many interesting topics to discuss, I thought it deserved it's own thread so here it is.

First I'll make cursory comments on some things you brought up.

I used LMMS in windows at times also. Square peg in a round hole.

Soundfonts are the way to go in linux midi. If you want a turn-key system, I can say from having used just about every big-box DAW, that you can achieve outstanding results by buying $110 Presonus Audio-box stereo USB interface (that includes a true midi jack) because Pre-Sonus Studio One comes bundled with it. Why I say it's turn-key is that it's literally loaded with plugins, virtual-instruments, midi-editing, loop-sequencing, mastering effects, and runs very smoothly on a decent enough laptop. It's windows/mac, and I wouldn't imagine it would run under wine, but I've never tried. Something like a laptop with an i-5 processor and 8 gigs of RAM will give you smooth performance. Latency is always a factor, and has as much or more to do with things like USB port speed as it does the system's overall resources. One big advantage of Studio One is the provided templates, that allow you to choose routing, track layout, and virtual instruments, all pre-configured. Is there a learning curve? YES, and one of the possible pit-falls of templates is not being able to manipulate the template once you've created a project, for lack of understanding the routing. That aside, some things just work, and with good fortune it's easy to get from beginning to end of a project without needing to re-wire different elements.

Working with audio that isn't sampled we either have to treat a PC like a multitrack or cut up recorded pieces played (or MIDI'd), or attempt MIDI & audio in the same project and hope for the best.

It's almost like without internal control of audio (e.g., soundfonts), we need a dual system, one for performance and another for capture

This is the kind of thing I was referring to about choosing tools, which will be different for everyone, and project specific. I use a lot of outboard gear, external looping, synthesizers, etc. Do I want to sync them to the project? or capture what I'm creating externally. That changes from project to project. Do I want to sync and capture simultaneously, play virtual instruments while capturing. Some of these tasks are difficult, and even in a turn-key environment have organizational challenges. So I'm an intuitive creative type, yes, but artistic creation is a lot like systems engineering, especially in today's digital creative space. I've been using audio software since the days of XP. It's so much easier now, but the organizational choices are just as daunting. The problem for a guy like me becomes when do I focus on the composition, and performance as opposed to the tools?

So in this thread when I don't have as much bread-and-butter work to do as I do today, it would be fun to discuss what comes in jackalpup, what I have installed myself, and how I use these tools for different projects.

~geo

[JASpup]

@geo_c Interesting you mention Pre-Sonus.

I once owned their TubePre for the simple reason of warming sounds. It sounded good but didn't have much headroom and kind of put that thick glow on what was already there instead of making a better tone.

I could get better at piano roll, but it feels like starting over in the technical sense when there are so many other things to do yourself solo.

Tool are a challenge but atm it's more time and especially space to capture performance (I'm dense suburban).

I would consider Studio One based on your recommendation.

I might be leaning towards audio clips now as getting the right MIDI mix is too dependent on tone module control of each track. I can control ONE track from an external module (i.e., not Soundfont), but adding the others tends to result in something cheesy and amateur for lack of control... I used to joke the Casio Sound for a lot of 80s keyboard music. That's what multitimbral synths or General MIDI multitrack tends to sound like to me.

Of course again with audio the performance and capturing devices will be different.

I imagine a day of brilliant sounds inside a computer with the simple matter of laying atop organic and instrument audio. 'Til then perhaps everything should be audio.

[geo_c]

@JASpup

Studio one will work with most interfaces. I mention the interface because they throw the software into it for free. You're right about their pre-amps, headroom is low, as I tend to have really hot lines coming from my gear.

Here's a quick sample of one possible jackalpup project map:

1) Chart out parts in Musescore (available in ppm or appimage both run perfectly)
2) Export a midi-file, perhaps as separate parts, one midi file for each instrument.
3) Import midi files into LMMS and tweak the timing, note lengths, etc in piano roll.
4) Export audio of the files using soundfonts, perhaps each track as a separate audio file.
5) Import the audio files into Ardour as separate tracks
6) Overdub with live material, cut and paste
7) Wire Ardour through the Carla Rack to mixdown the project and master.

In this scenario we're never running more than two applications at one time. That being only step 7, the final stage of mixdown.

Notes and observations about this project map:

-Jack only needs to be engaged in the tracking/mix/master stage using Ardour/Carla. The previous steps use applications that can run independent of Jack.

-If Musescore delivers the desired performance result, then the LMMS stage of the process can be eliminated completely. Musescore can play soundfonts equally as well and export the audio.

the simplified outline looks like this:

1) Chart out parts in Musescore
2) Export audio of the files using soundfonts, perhaps each track as a separate audio file.
3) Import the audio files into Ardour as separate tracks
4) Overdub with live material, cut and paste
5) Wire Ardour through the Carla Rack to mixdown the project and master.

[geo_c]

@geo_c Interesting you mention Pre-Sonus.

I might be leaning towards audio clips now as getting the right MIDI mix is too dependent on tone module control of each track. I can control ONE track from an external module (i.e., not Soundfont), but adding the others tends to result in something cheesy and amateur for lack of control... I used to joke the Casio Sound for a lot of 80s keyboard music. That's what multitimbral synths or General MIDI multitrack tends to sound like to me.

Jackalpup comes with soundfonts, but I have taken the time over the years to collect as many free fonts as I could find. For instance Musescore's website has a download page for soundfonts, and I think I probably already had a majority of them.

The above project is presented as sort of the simplest starting point. Jackalpup has a sampler, and sequencer, etc, and use of these tools sync'd by a clock in jack would allow for a more realtime capture/performance mentality, and would allow the use of triggering clips. This gets complicated no matter what package you use, Studio One included. There are some limitations in the free version of Studio One. For instance there is only use of 4 virtual instruments simultaneously. One is a drum module, the other a synth modeler, the other a sampler, the other a general midi type module. So if you want to use any of those twice in a project, you have to convert to audio to free up the instrument to be triggered by midi. Essentially doing the step of converting midi to audio that the above jackalpup project would do up front of firing up the multi-track audio recorder. Jackalpup is perfectly capable of firing modules, samplers, and sequencers in real-time along with multi-track audio capture. It might be fun to take this simplified starting project map and add capabilities ending in a much more complex setup.

I would like to record a sample tune and go through the steps with screen capture. But I don't if my world is perfect enough to accomplish that at the moment!