Paring down

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wiak
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Paring down

Post by wiak »

https://zenhabits.net/paring/

Most of my development efforts end by 'fading away': makepup, and tons of other gtkdialog-based apps/utilities I worked on or experimented with - waste of time really. A few hang around for seemingly ever (Precord still occasionally gets mentioned by someone or other) but on the whole most have ceased to exist or are no longer used even by myself. And sometimes I ask myself: what was the point of all that work? I should just use something someone else makes and sit back, relax, and occasionally ask for improvements (the old forum Pelo approach...). Actually, I think Pelo was wise in that regard - ManjaroXFCE is not far from what I want in practice anyway (except I'd remove some of the heavy gloss XFCE brings - but that would be a pretty easy knife job too). But I do want frugal install, so WDL initrd provides that for me should I decide to abandon everything other than that and let Manjaro take care of everything else ;-)

One particularly big/huge past effort I undertook was a fork I made of gtkdialog itself in order to allow some of the gtkdialog-based apps I had made or others I used to work correctly without modification even if the underlying system shell was not bash. Actually gtkwialog is a bit more than that - it contains an alternative way of receiving input and creating output than via C system() function calls. Nevertheless, I find now that all the distro's I use (including flavours of WeeDogLinux) use bash as their system shell so traditional gtkdialog works for all such apps I still use, and gtkwialog is no longer needed by me either.

To free my brain/time from ever feeling I need to develop gtkwialog further, therefore, I duly announce that I henceforth am abandoning the fork. Actually, there is another reason for that... I plan in due time to abandon all use of gtkdialog-requiring apps and utilities altogether, including my own. Over time I came to 'hate' gtkdialog as a programming mechanism anyway - time moves on and gtkdialog does not deserve to keep such space more generally. In the repositories of most distros, gtkdialog is in fact no longer available, and frankly I think it is better to move on and develop any such utility apps in better supported ways.

The original gtkdialog code base was pretty neat and small (one source script as far as I recall) but then it was developed big-time via old Puppy forum support threads and ended up including all sorts of wonderful (but somehow messy and awful) bells and whistles.. but really I preferred the old simple one for easy reliable maintenance for what should have been simple apps. Certainly there is nothing quite as capable of producing relatively complex GUI frontends for bash and awk scripts out there, but I realize now I'd rather use something like Python with Kivy (or even PySimpleGUI) for both the simple and the more complex. I have dabbled with straight C plus GTK+2 (a fork I once made of old xhippo), but that is far too complex a mess of an approach for the simple utilities I use anyway - a simplified abstraction is much more appropriate in my opinion and even yad is a lot tidier than old gtkdialog. Goodbye gtkdialog I thus say... no tears from me... Yes, I like wex (and sometimes even still use Precord) but I can recode these... eventually once I have time.

Yes, I know, there are so many pretty nice old gtkdialog-based apps out there... shame, but there are always alternatives. Certainly painful to ever see new programs still being written with it - I can't help but feel such old old ancient approaches holds back the younger developers around here - they put themselves in a kind of time-wasting time-warp of a trap. Avoid it!

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Re: Paring down

Post by rockedge »

I first ran into gtkdialog missing and no longer in the Void Linux repos building WDL-Void desktops. My plugin building the WDL-Void desktops included MochiMoppel's mm_view which required gtkdialog. So once it was missing in Void I took gtkdialog source from woof-CE and compiled it for Void Linux, which worked great. I mentioned it to MochiMoppel at the time that gtkdialog was disappearing.

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Re: Paring down gtkdialog

Post by bigpup »

Most of my development efforts end by 'fading away': makepup, and tons of other gtkdialog-based apps/utilities I worked on or experimented with - waste of time really. A few hang around for seemingly ever (Precord still occasionally gets mentioned by someone or other) but on the whole most have ceased to exist or are no longer used even by myself. And sometimes I ask myself: what was the point of all that work?

Welcome to the world of computer software. :roll: :!:

For some unknown reason, people think software has to constantly be updated, changed, re-coded, or it is no good as usable software.

There are still a few Puppy specific programs that have been around for years.

Hopefully, to some Puppy developers, the idea:
if it is not broken do not try to fix it
Is still something they try to follow.

If you have some software to offer to the Puppy user base.
Where is it?
What is it?
That is what the Additional Software section of the forum is for.
If you post it.
They will come and find it and use it.

Feedback is not going to be we like it and use it.
Most posting, about using it, will be about issues.

Being willing to fix the issues, is something you need to do, if you want the software to continue to be used.

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The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
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wiak
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Re: Paring down

Post by wiak »

My WeeDog blog first post title of this thread was 'Paring down' and not 'Paring down gtkdialog' - I am not paring down any parts of gtkdialog code but rather paring down more generally to allow more focus on WeeDog development which is what this section of the forum documents, per structural organisation and moderation by me. I don't have time to re-document everything I do so this WeeDog section is pretty much part of WeeDog official documentation in the form I want it to be - including first post thread headings/topic name.

Whilst all of WeeDog involved Linux as the OS, and thus much I write could apply to other distros discussed on this forum, what I write in this section is for WeeDogLinux. Should any other forum member want to link to any topics I post here from other areas of the overall forum they are free to do so. Should I ever wish to publish any topic in any other forum area I already do so, but that is now rare since most of the forum concerns Puppy Linux, which I rarely use nowadays. Many of my contributions were however tailored to also work with Puppy Linux, and for the DebianDogs, but all of them work with WeeDogLinux, which is my main focus at this time.

wiak

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