Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

The following YouTube video triggered me to try out Puppy Linux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJcWcQ8ew6Q&t=924s. The part about Puppy Linux starts at 11.39.

Since the video shows BionicPup32 8.0 I decided to go with that version as my first attempt. Downloading, creating bootable USB and booting all went fine, but when I clicked on the icon for Web Browser nothing happend. Next I tried Applications => Internet => Light Web Browser. Still nothing.

I did a ping test, so I know I had an internet connection.

Any suggestions to why the Web Browser starts up in the video, but not when I try it?

My test rig is an Acer Aspire 3100 with 518MB RAM.

@Kjellinux :-

Mm. Well, I've just loaded the adrv.sfs from Bionic32 into Bionic64 - I'm running the 32-bit compatibility layer here - and it fires up fine for me.

Do this, will you? Go into /usr/local/lib, and look for a file called 'light'. Is it showing as a sym-link (a small arrow at the top-left corner of the icon), or is it showing as a triangle with an exclamation mark in it?

If you go into /usr/local/lib/light, can you start it by directly clicking on the 'light' executable? I'm just trying to do some elimination here, that's all....

Mike.

I think the Light Browser is distributed as an adrv with Bionic 32. Make sure there is an adrv present with your other Puppy files and that the adrv is loaded (if it's there it should be loaded automatically) at bootup.

Okay - I see mikewalsh got in before me. Anyways - you can also look in /initrd to see if the adrv is loaded and run the executable directly from inside the adrv folder there.

Hello and welcome, kjellinux,
It is, as you say, a bit of a mystery.
Thoughts that spring to mind are:-
Open a terminal, type "light" (without the quotes) and press Enter. See what errors you get.
(This should start the Light browser from the terminal)
Is the test rig computer very old? Maybe this issue is caused by the CPU not having SSE2 capability?
The 518MB of RAM is not a lot these days, especially for browsers and heavy tasks. You should create some swap (file or partition) to back this up. It is much slower than RAM, but at least things do not freeze and crash if all the RAM is used up.
Do other applications open and run OK?

@mikewalsh @amethyst @OscarTalks

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:46 pm

Do this, will you? Go into /usr/local/lib, and look for a file called 'light'. Is it showing as a sym-link (a small arrow at the top-left corner of the icon), or is it showing as a triangle with an exclamation mark in it?

It is showing as a cogwheel. No small arrow, no triangle with an exclamation mark in it.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:46 pm

If you go into /usr/local/lib/light, can you start it by directly clicking on the 'light' executable?

No.

OscarTalks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:06 pm

Open a terminal, type "light" (without the quotes) and press Enter. See what errors you get.

"Bus error"

OscarTalks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:06 pm

Maybe this issue is caused by the CPU not having SSE2 capability?

SSE2 capability?

OscarTalks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:06 pm

Is the test rig computer very old?

Approximately 10 years.

OscarTalks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:06 pm

The 518MB of RAM is not a lot these days, especially for browsers and heavy tasks. You should create some swap (file or partition) to back this up. It is much slower than RAM, but at least things do not freeze and crash if all the RAM is used up.

As I have written about in the thread "Best 32 bit version with support beyond 2023?" (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3245), the aim of my current project is to find out just how old hardware it's possible to give a second life using lightweight Linux distributions.

I know what a swap is, but not how to create one. Once I get the browser started, I will definitely come back to this topic. Whenever I'm done with my testing, I will probably award my test rig some more RAM and possibly even an SSD, but right now it would defeat the purpose of my testing.

OscarTalks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:06 pm

Do other applications open and run OK?

Mostly, yes.

amethyst wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:50 pm

I think the Light Browser is distributed as an adrv with Bionic 32. Make sure there is an adrv present with your other Puppy files and that the adrv is loaded (if it's there it should be loaded automatically) at bootup.

Adrv? Keep in mind that my experience with Linux is limited!

amethyst wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:50 pm

Anyways - you can also look in /initrd to see if the adrv is loaded and run the executable directly from inside the adrv folder there.

Nothing named adrv in /initrd.

Nothing named adrv in /initrd.

Then the Light Browser is not loaded. The iso you have downloaded must include an adrv (which contains the Light Browser).

How are you running Puppy, did you install it? If you installed it, it should be frugal install. I'm not sure how Puppy deals with adrv's if it's a full install.

Hi,

you say that you created a bootable usb. If it is a "frugal" install, then on your usb should be a partition with install files of Bionicpup32. These should be: "vmlinuz", "initrd.gz" and few others..., and also "adrv_upupbb_.....sfs".

You can look there and see if it's there.

OK on the swap. I would expect the Light browser to start up anyway.
The SSE2 is just one of the features or capabilities which was introduced into Processors quite a long time ago. Older computers may not have it and most modern browsers need it. I don't think this is the problem here, but if you want to make sure, type:-
cat /proc/cpuinfo
into a terminal and press enter. That should give you quite a list of the specifications of the CPU.
In the section "flags :", look for sse2 in the bunch of other items.
I am not sure what the "bus error" means, but it does suggest to me that Light browser is present in your file system which in turn suggests that the adrv is in fact loaded. If it were not, when you enter "light" in terminal I would expect "command not found".

Is Bionic's Light current enough for contemporary use? I use 48 in X-Tahr & by searches it doesn't appear maintained.

I also have an .sfs of it if interested.

Did you download the Bionicpup32 8.0 iso from here:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... cpup32.htm
Make sure to select that top selection.
Download the latest BionicPup32-8.0+27 ISO from SourceForge - Uploaded on 16-May-202
Click button to download latest .ISO
This Bionicpup32 has had 27 updates since original release.
The +27 one is what you want.

The rest of the stuff, on this web page, is advanced options, you know nothing about, yet.

The light browser is in Bionicpup32 to give you some kind of browser to use.
But it is, what it is, for a browser.

You can always install Firefox, Chromium, Pale Moon, other browsers, etc......
Do have to make sure to get a 32bit version of them.

@bigpup @JASpup @OscarTalks @Feek @amethyst

Thank you all for all your comments and suggestions. After some time away from the computers I'm now back at it again.

I have decided that my next step will be to redo the bootable USB. With a bit of luck, many of the problems may go away in the process. I'm considering two different paths, one using a Windows machine, the other using a Linux machine.

If I choose the Linux path, which program would you recommend to create the bootable USB? Which file system is best to use, FAT32, Ext4 or other?

If I choose the Windows path, I have been recommended to defragment the partition that I will download the .iso-file to. I'm not entirely happy to do this, since it's an SSD that is getting a bit old and has little free space left. It's going to be replaced by a new and larger soon.

Regardless of the path I chose, this time I intend to verify the checksum. Are there some easy to follow step by step instructions on how to do this?

To those of you asking about the type of install, I have only been running from the USB so far.

bigpup wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:00 pm

Did you download the Bionicpup32 8.0 iso from here:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... cpup32.htm

No, I downloaded it from https://puppylinux.com, as shown in the YouTube video. I will download it from the page you suggested on my new attempt.

bigpup wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:00 pm

The light browser is in Bionicpup32 to give you some kind of browser to use.
But it is, what it is, for a browser.

It will suffice for my initial testing.

bigpup wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:00 pm

You can always install Firefox, Chromium, Pale Moon, other browsers, etc......
Do have to make sure to get a 32bit version of them.

I will most certainly try this once Im up and running properly.

OscarTalks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:07 pm

The SSE2 is just one of the features or capabilities which was introduced into Processors quite a long time ago.

I have now learned (by the power of Google) that SSE2 is an expansion of the instruction set. AMD added this in 2003, and my test rig was launched several years later.

OscarTalks wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:07 pm

if you want to make sure, type:-
cat /proc/cpuinfo
into a terminal and press enter. That should give you quite a list of the specifications of the CPU.
In the section "flags :", look for sse2 in the bunch of other items.

SSE2 was indeed included there.

You can use both Puppy & Windows.

Treat them as separate systems that can mutually read each others' data sticking to the two file systems mentioned.

This is a Puppy-bias forum, but the best tool for a beginner who uses both os is UUI: https://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal ... -as-1-2-3/

It's a Windows tool. It supports FAT32 & NTFS. I use FAT32 for maximum compatibility.

After putting Puppy on your USB, tell your BIOS to boot from it first, before the hd.

Ongoing you use your USB to boot Puppy, and remove it to boot Windows.

Backing up is a good idea, though I've only experienced problems dual-booting on old desktop machines (98 & XP).

I tend to skip checksum from reliable domains, but it isn't a bad idea to follow through,

If Bionic 32 uses the old Light I use in X-Tahr, I would install Pale Moon.

Kjellinux wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:21 pm

If I choose the Windows path, I have been recommended to defragment the partition that I will download the .iso-file to. I'm not entirely happy to do this, since it's an SSD that is getting a bit old and has little free space left. It's going to be replaced by a new and larger soon.

DO NOT attempt to defragment an SSD, it is meant for HDD disks, not SSD's which are flash based. SSD's will control management or you can use trim (fstrim) for space management. As you advised that it's old, I'm not sure what it's capacity to use trim will be. You should check.

Just to make sure something is not wrong with the Light browser.
I booted my install of Bionicpup32 8.0
The light browser works for me.

If you have a SSD drive.
Forget what I told you about defragging.
The SSD internal controller should be doing that anyway.

One thing about SSD drives.
Always have some free space so the internal drive controller can wear level the drive.

The wear leveling algorithm's goal in life is to try and exercise all the cells evenly, even if that involves moving data around to achieve it.

entered in error.

@TerryH @bigpup

TerryH wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:16 am

DO NOT attempt to defragment an SSD

I don't intend to.

bigpup wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:19 am

Always have some free space so the internal drive controller can wear level the drive.

I keep a watchful eye on the free space to have at least 10 % free. Currently it's about 15G free out of 105G. And, as I mentioned, it's in line for replacement. A brand spanking new 512GB SSD is already waiting to take it's place.

bigpup wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:23 am

entered in error.

"Errare humanum est, ignoscere divinum​!"

One other idea if you still have the system you were testing, I wonder if you have somehow got a corrupted profile for Light browser. The profile is a set of files which it creates when it runs. You can delete these which will reset it back to the original state (before its first run). Delete the directory (and all contents) /root/.light which is a hidden directory so click on the eye symbol in ROX file manager in order to see it.
Or via terminal
rm -r /root/.light
Then try light again

If going for a fresh install, in USB flash drive I would always use ext2 as it is a Linux file system with no journaling so fewer writes prolongs the life of the drive (so they say). Remember to set the boot flag.
Make sure it is the latest .ISO BionicPup32-8.0+27
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... cpup32.htm

There are various ways of installing it to the USB. I expect others will have assorted suggestions. I always do it by opening the .ISO and manually copying the small number of files across, then installing a bootloader (and fresh mbr if necessary). If you have a running Puppy you should be able to use the Puppy Installer (Universal Installer) for most or all of the steps.

@OscarTalks

OscarTalks wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:54 am

rm -r /root/.light

"No such file or directory"

OscarTalks wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:54 am

Remember to set the boot flag.

How do i do that?

OscarTalks wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:54 am

There are various ways of installing it to the USB. I expect others will have assorted suggestions. I always do it by opening the .ISO and manually copying the small number of files across, then installing a bootloader (and fresh mbr if necessary). If you have a running Puppy you should be able to use the Puppy Installer (Universal Installer) for most or all of the steps.

I could probably figure out how to copy the files across. I have no idea how to install a bootloader (but I think I have a fair idea what it is), I have no idea what an mbr is or how to install it.

My test rig came with Lubuntu installed. In the Software Center there is a program called UNetbootin. What, if any, would be the difference/advantages/disadvantages of using UNetbootin compared to the method you described?

I tried to write simplier, the old hacks are masterful at what they know, but you're going in the difficult direction.

Set a boot flag in Gparted, but...

You don't need to install a bootloader if you use a utility like UUI that creates one. It sets the boot flag and creates your menu. UNetbootin could work but probably not as well.

UUI is better than the Linux utilities, though admittedly I haven't tried them all. 'Oh, this works... keep using it' kind of thing.

At an intermediate level you can choose a technical approach, but novice it can feel like you're hacking an installation that should happen more smoothly.

You won't really know what you did until a lot of screwing around.

If you're just using a USB you can experiment for what works for you - not much risk.

There isn't an advantage with Oscar's method except that he's experienced and knows how to create a Puppy boot manually. Puppy isn't like Windows where it has to be installed, you can literally just copy the files over, but if you don't know how to boot it or setup a menu, a good utility is lot easier.

Find Puppy in the dropdown menu and let it run:

Here's Light from the guy who put out 32 Bionic in .sfs form:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/lxpup/ ... s/download

An .sfs is just a way to run an app without installing it. It needs to be loaded. You can click on it in roxfiler or use the sfs_load app.

For it's age, you'll want something newer for comprehensive browsing however.

Unetbootin Installer, should also work, for installing to USB.

@JASpup @bigpup

bigpup wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:15 am

Unetbootin Installer, should also work, for installing to USB.

On my test rig (running Lubuntu), there's a system tool called Startup Disk Creator (https://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/3/3.1/ ... eator.html). It's a graphical utility for creating bootable USB media. My initial thought was to use this utility to create a bootable USB with BionicPup32 8.0, but for some reason it wouldn't read the .iso-file.

At first it appeared as if it would only create a bootable USB for the residing Lubuntu system. After some more research, and kind help from another Ubuntu forum, I found out that there's a bug in the utility (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... ug/1931493). It works just fine if the .iso file is renamed to end with .img instead.

So, for my next attempt, I will try to use the Startup Disk Creator utility, since it's already there and appears very simple to use.

The next thing I need to research is how to find and verify the checksum for the BionicPup32-8.0+27 ISO from SourceForge. Any advice on that will be greatly appreciated.

Kjellinux wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:33 pm

The next thing I need to research is how to find and verify the checksum for the BionicPup32-8.0+27 ISO from SourceForge. Any advice on that will be greatly appreciated.

Click the "i in a circle" link on SourceForge
or look in:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... 5-list.txt

Right-click on the .iso to run pupmd5sum

Generally - much better to use Puppy's installers rather than installers created for other systems that don't understand Puppy's frugal install needs....

So better to get a transient bootable Puppy running off a usb stick and then use Puppy utilities to do your final install.

@peebee

peebee wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm

Click the "i in a circle" link on SourceForge
or look in:
http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/pu ... 5-list.txt

Check on booth options.

peebee wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm

Right-click on the .iso to run pupmd5sum

I right-clicked on the .iso (currently located in the Downloads folder on my test rig) but found no option to run pupmd5sum.

peebee wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm

Generally - much better to use Puppy's installers rather than installers created for other systems that don't understand Puppy's frugal install needs....

So better to get a transient bootable Puppy running off a usb stick and then use Puppy utilities to do your final install.

This has been my plan all along.

I don't use the Linux tools out of frustration.

There's actually advice on this site to use the dd tool, data destroyer.

UUI/YUMI (multiboot) need Linux peers, but they don't appear to exist.

Even for chauvinists (Linux not Windows, Puppy not other distros), it's for THEIR advantage to make booting Puppy user-friendly for beginners.

It appears you're fixed (or stuck) trying to work exclusively in Linux.

For that I learned eventually most of the experienced users you see posting here use GRUB4DOS which works within Linux to create effective bootloaders based on the os already being copied as written in my last post.

That's how I booted X-Tahr I'm writing from at the moment (XFCE Puppy), but this technique is not beginner. Otherwise I boot UUI/YUMI media which is.

There isn't chauvinism or bug issues that would thwart the use of UUI if you can boot Windows. It's a single executable that doesn't require installation and is Puppy compatible.

Kjellinux wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:38 pm

I right-clicked on the .iso (currently located in the Downloads folder on my test rig) but found no option to run pupmd5sum.

You must be running Puppy to do this......... if another os you will have to find out how they do it..........

@peebee

peebee wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:46 pm

You must be running Puppy to do this......... if another os you will have to find out how they do it..........

Now I'm confused. I need Puppy to verify the .iso file I just downloaded to try out Puppy? How can I achieve this the first time I download Puppy, e.g. on a Windows machine or on a machine with a different Linux distribution?

I have verified the checksum for Linux Mint before. That particular download was done on a Linux machine running Ubuntu (https://linuxmint.com/verify.php). In that case the downloaded .iso file was verified before it was used to create a bootable USB.

@JASpup

JASpup wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:40 pm

It appears you're fixed (or stuck) trying to work exclusively in Linux.

Not at all, but since my first attempt, using a Windows machine, failed, I thought I would try a Linux machine for my second attempt.

(And by the way, I'm writing this forum entry on a Windows machine. )

Kjellinux wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:55 pm

@peebee

peebee wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:46 pm

You must be running Puppy to do this......... if another os you will have to find out how they do it..........

Now I'm confused. I need Puppy to verify the .iso file I just downloaded to try out Puppy? How can I achieve this the first time I download Puppy, e.g. on a Windows machine or on a machine with a different Linux distribution?

I have verified the checksum for Linux Mint before. That particular download was done on a Linux machine running Ubuntu (https://linuxmint.com/verify.php). In that case the downloaded .iso file was verified before it was used to create a bootable USB.

You download the puppy .iso (e.g. in windows) and you need to verify it (if it is intact) before you install and boot puppy. So there is not running puppy yet.

The .iso can be verified with some trustworthy program on any operating system.

You say you are in windows now, so somewhere on the internet should be available some free programs for that purpose (google will help). When I did my first verification of puppy .iso in windows7, I used something called "HashTool"

The pupmd5sum is Puppy's GUI program for verifying the md5sum of the .iso
Other Linux such as Lubuntu (or Windows) will have their own ways of doing md5sum checks, but they will not be pupmd5sum

Do you have a second USB stick or do you need to wipe and re-install over the one with BionicPup32 on it?
If you still have that one, the Puppy tools may all work even though Light browser does not.
pupmd5sum
Gparted
Puppy Installer
Grub4dos bootloader (maybe)

I would also be interested to know if the test rig has a working optical drive?
If so, burn the .iso as a live CD and boot from that
That may seem like a distraction from USB stick installation, but if the CD boots you can use that to install to USB (as well as testing if Light browser works from that).