Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Rural based idiot here! You would think at my age and the experience of too many computer systems to name, I would have worked this out, but no such luck

Got sick of Microshite dumping crap on my Dell laptop - currently running Win10 so I decided to try a dual boot solution, After much research, I downloaded:
* tahr-6.0.5_pae-132
* Lick-1.3.4-win32
* EasyBCD 2.4

From what I read, for dual boot, they needed to be on the C drive but I also copied the files to a USB stick as a backup so:
LICK is now in "program files"
Explorer claims EayyBCD is already installed, but it is not listed in "program files"
EasyBCD seems to be installed and I get a dialog box showing the variants listed below

BUT - Intiial boot still loads WIN 10 and can't see any way to load the Puppy

WTF am I doing wrong"

Entry #2
Name: LICK Boot Loader
BCD ID: {6eb987f5-3616-11eb-952a-fcb19d6242e0}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \pupldr.mbr

Entry #3
Name: NeoSmart Linux
BCD ID: {6eb987f6-3616-11eb-952a-fcb19d6242e0}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \NST\AutoNeoGrub0.mbr

Entry #4
Name: NeoGrub Bootloader
BCD ID: {6eb987f7-3616-11eb-952a-fcb19d6242e0}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \NST\NeoGrub.mbr

Entry #5
Name: NeoSmart ISO Entry
BCD ID: {default}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \NST\AutoNeoGrub1.mbr

Entry #6
Name: NeoSmart Linux
BCD ID: {6eb987f9-3616-11eb-952a-fcb19d6242e0}
Drive: C:\
Bootloader Path: \NST\AutoNeoGrub2.mbr

Seemed to install as required and got a "success" message. That was the good news.

Sounds like you're really close to getting this. Does this Dell machine use UEFI or BIOS to boot?

You are not getting the boot options and the machine is directly going to Windoze?

How attached are you to the current Windjunk 10 that is installed?

.......and to the kennels!!!!

P.S. Make sure to boot into Windows 10 and turn off the "hibernation" feature before shutdown/reboot

Hi alanL,
It's just as well that you ran into a road-block.
The easiest way to get a functional Puppy from Windows 10 is to first install it to a USB-Key. And the easiest way to do that is to install rufus, https://rufus.ie/en_US/, plug in the Key, and point rufus to the Key and the ISO. Under 'Target System' select "Bios or UEFI". No reason not to. The GUI at the above URL is pretty self-explanatory.

But you also have to go into your Window system & Bios: Turn off Hibernate, Fast-boot (which are fancy terms for concealing that Windows 10 never turns off so you can't get out of it; and keeping the user from knowing that if Windows 10 is turned off it will take forever to boot to desktop). You will also have to give the USB-Ports priority, otherwise your computer will always boot from the hard-drive before looking to the USB-Ports for an operating system.
The information in the above paragraph will apply without regard to how you install an operating system to a USB-Key, or to your computer's hard-drive. It might be what's interfering with Lick. We might be able to provide more explicit instructions if we know the make and model of your computer. The 'How tos' vary.

With your computer, from any recent Puppy on a USB-Stick, it’s easy to try any other Puppy, and --if you choose to-- ‘install’ any number of Puppies to your hard-drive. Ask how when you have a working Puppy.

The reason 'it's just as well' is that you have no reason to use tahr-6.0.5_pae-132. Not that it wasn't a good system 'in its day' for computers which had to run 32-bit operating systems. Your computer doesn't. And if it can run Windows 10, at all, it can run any 64-bit Puppy. Don't think your frustration with Windows' leisurely pace is indicative of what your computer can do under Puppy Linux. I haven't been able to wean my wife off Windows. I can boot into my 64-bit Puppy from a USB-Key, have it load a 2nd operating system from which I can run web-browsers, reach desktop with an open web-browser and Unplug the Key before her Window 10 computer reaches desktop.

The primary reason to avoid 32-bit systems is that it is becoming very difficult to obtain functional 32-bit web-browsers. It's still possible. But next year? You could, of course, run an older version of a web-browser. But more and more web-sites will insist on a reasonably current version before providing access. Why head into a traffic jam if you can avoid it?

Based on your current level of knowledge, needs and desires my recommendations are:
Bionicpup64, viewtopic.php?f=115&t=99: You're least likely to encounter any problem as it's had two+ years of feed-back from users world-wide. Yet it can do pretty much anything you want short of running the latest versions of a very few specialized applications with their current-crop of 'bells & whistles'.

You could try the LICK installer.

I used this to install Puppy Linux 5.2.5 Lucid in both 2001 Sony XP VAIO and 2002 XP Dell; it also installed Puppy Linux 6.0.5 Tahrpup on the Windows 8 ASUS.

It's insanely easy to use. Just fire it up, drag the ISO you want to install, and you have a Dual Boot System. Note that not all ISOs install on all systems.

If you can't find it I'll upload it to an online storage site and give you the link.

I second mikeslr's recommendation to leave your hard drive alone and put Puppy on a USB stick.

But first one important "terminology" thing - traditional Linux's encourage you to "install" the Linux but in Puppy we don't encourage a hard drive "install" - we recommend what is called a "frugal" method.

The term frugal can seem unusual or misleading - but try to get to understand the Puppy "frugal" method instead of an HDD "install". You will not regret using a frugal install to usb.

And here is a link that may help you to access the command terminal in Windows to turn off the hibernate function others have mentioned:
viewtopic.php?p=21479#p21479

But even before you go any further I would ask if you have a CD drive in that machine?

If so - then I think that booting from a CD is a really good way to try a pup without having to navigate all of the different bootloader options.

Thanks guys - that is all very helpful and I'll go through the recommendations carefully. Have to go to town now for supplies so it might be tomorrow before I get to it - the joys of living in the bush 80+ km from a "city"

Cheers from OZ

Alan

* tahr-6.0.5_pae-132
* Lick-1.3.4-win32
* EasyBCD 2.4

Uninstall EasyBCD it is not designed for booting Puppy Linux and Windows 10.

Get back to having a normally booting Windows 10 that uses it's boot loader.

For Puppy Linux and only for Puppy Linux duel boot installs alongside Windows 10.

Download and use the Lick installer program running in Windows.
viewtopic.php?f=105&t=336
.
Info on using Lick:
https://github.com/noryb009/lick

Download one of the Puppy versions iso files.
Start up Lick.
Tell it to install the Puppy version iso.
Lick will make a boot loader that will give you option to boot Windows or the Puppy version it installed.
Reboot and this new boot loader menu should show up.

Note and warning:
Puppy will have the ability to access, delete, move, add, etc.... to any location on the drive.
So, you could mess up Windows 10 if you let Puppy do things to Windows stuff.
Best to do anything with Puppy Linux only in it's filesystem.
Puppy will be installed as a frugal install, with everything Puppy inside of a folder.
Keep what you do with Puppy inside of that folder.
When you run the Rox file manager. You are looking at the Puppy Linux filesystem, inside of this Puppy folder.

greengeek wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:16 pm

I second mikeslr's recommendation to leave your hard drive alone and put Puppy on a USB stick.

Or better yet a USB HD, (or even better yet a USB SSD).
Partitioned:
1. small fat32 boot partition, 512MiB, contains grub2.
2. large ext4 partition, contains Puppy.
3. swap partition, a bit bigger than your RAM.

I sometimes use an old 120GB usb HD, and the performance is quite acceptable.

I second what others have said about leaving your Windows installation alone, as much as possible. Puppys are fast, flexible and can be very dangerous. Windows has assumed you are an idiot and is designed to prevent you from making an idiot's mistakes. [Without your participation beyond trying to start it Windows 10 can upgrade itself into a brick. But that Windows 10 was designed by idiots is a different problem].

As a Puppy User you are 'The Administrator' having access to every folder and file on your internal hard-drive and any attached storage media. You have the power and right to edit and/or delete every file. No secret password or hand-shake is needed. You can do it in your sleep, or a moment of absent-mindedness.*

Hence, my recommendation to do a 'Frugal Install' of Puppy to as USB-Stick. Get to know it from there. From a running Puppy you can do pretty much anything. After using Windows tools to resize a partition on the hard-drive, you can frugally install it and dual boot. Or for a couple of bucks --e.g. $7 for 8 Gbs to $26 for 128 Gb: SanDisk 3.0 on ebay today-- you can structure a USB-Key to your advantage--ask how-- and only have to boot into Windows to use some application not otherwise available. To quote or paraphrase bigpup, "Keep Windows; run Puppy".

P.S. The only noticeable difference between running a Frugal Puppy from an internal hard-drive and from a USB-Stick is that from a USB-Stick it will take a little longer to boot to desktop. But not as long as it takes to boot Windows to desktop. Once a Frugal Puppy has booted to desktop it runs entirely in RAM. With EasyOS and Puli OOTB you can unplug the Key. One of nic07/amethyst's tools can be used with any Puppy to enable that. But, of course, you'd have to re-plug the Key to save anything to it.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* So too can your cat while walking across your keyboard. But fortunately for Cat-Owners, Puppy doesn't mount (open) any drive/partition automatically other than the drive/partition it boots from. And using amethyst's tool, not even that. [Mounting a drive/partition is a scroll and Left-Click away. Chances are your cat won't master that trick].

Very few people seem to add a grub entry to the Windows bootloader configuration and then set either Windows or Puppy as the default OS to start. This way you don't touch the existing boot record. Just as a matter of interest and for "useless" information -Personally, I use a neat little trick to dual-boot XP and my Puppy's. Again as safe as houses because you don't touch the existing boot record. So I copy grub executable (grldr) and my ready made menu.lst to the Windows bootloader (ntldr for XP) location. I then rename ntldr to something like ntldr1 and rename grldr to ntldr. And then I change the windows bootloader entry in menu.lst to ntldr1. Tricking Windows to actually boot grldr (which it thinks is ntldr).

amethyst wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:29 pm

Very few people seem to add a grub entry to the Windows bootloader configuration and then set either Windows or Puppy as the default OS to start. This way you don't touch the existing boot record. Just as a matter of interest and for "useless" information -Personally, I use a neat little trick to dual-boot XP and my Puppy's. Again as safe as houses because you don't touch the existing boot record. So I copy grub executable (grldr) and my ready made menu.lst to the Windows bootloader (ntldr for XP) location. I then rename ntldr to something like ntldr1 and rename grldr to ntldr. And then I change the windows bootloader entry in menu.lst to ntldr1. Tricking Windows to actually boot grldr (which it thinks is ntldr).

I have dragged out my old Compaq 6710b running XP that has never missed a beat. It has all the software I need for routine work and I have copied all the critical files/directories off the Dell and will shortly upload than all to the Compaq, so the latter almost becomes redundant. Mostly, I work in a (tweaked) Dreamweaver that can now build responsive web pages, plus Illustrator, Pixresizer and some other non MS programs. All the files created in Word and Excel can be accessed in Openoffice so that is no big deal. It is certainly older but the Compaq was a better machine and I was always happy with XP.

Having the dual boot for the Dell is still the objective. However, it is all too easy to stuff up something critical so the suggestion of means placing code in the hard drive bootloader worries me and as several of you have explained (thank you), that could be dangerous so I'm inclined to use a stand-alone USB version and boot Puppy from there unless you tell me otherwise. Yes I have DVD units in both machines as well as a spare 16Gb USB drive

Machine is Dell Inspiron 1525
Processor Intel Core TM2 Duo CPU T5750 2 GHz
32 bit OS X64 processor
Bios 27d90a 1B Phoenix ROM Bios plus Version 1.10 A17

Currently on the USB stick are:
Rufus
LICK 1.3.4 WIN 32.
As recommended, I have deleted PAHR 6.05 PAE but have yet to download a different version. Which "frugal" version do you recommend please? As noted above, the Dell has a 64 Bit processor.

https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Drive-Ca ... B00F6K9LPY

double check your specs, I have had the best results by leaving the windows drive in the machine, and installing linux to the caddy.

much faster than a usb if you dont have usb 3, especially with a ssd

alanL wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:23 am

amethyst wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:29 pm

Very few people seem to add a grub entry to the Windows bootloader configuration and then set either Windows or Puppy as the default OS to start. This way you don't touch the existing boot record. Just as a matter of interest and for "useless" information -Personally, I use a neat little trick to dual-boot XP and my Puppy's. Again as safe as houses because you don't touch the existing boot record. So I copy grub executable (grldr) and my ready made menu.lst to the Windows bootloader (ntldr for XP) location. I then rename ntldr to something like ntldr1 and rename grldr to ntldr. And then I change the windows bootloader entry in menu.lst to ntldr1. Tricking Windows to actually boot grldr (which it thinks is ntldr).

I have dragged out my old Compaq 6710b running XP that has never missed a beat. It has all the software I need for routine work and I have copied all the critical files/directories off the Dell and will shortly upload than all to the Compaq, so the latter almost becomes redundant. Mostly, I work in a (tweaked) Dreamweaver that can now build responsive web pages, plus Illustrator, Pixresizer and some other non MS programs. All the files created in Word and Excel can be accessed in Openoffice so that is no big deal. It is certainly older but the Compaq was a better machine and I was always happy with XP.

Having the dual boot for the Dell is still the objective. However, it is all too easy to stuff up something critical so the suggestion of means placing code in the hard drive bootloader worries me and as several of you have explained (thank you), that could be dangerous so I'm inclined to use a stand-alone USB version and boot Puppy from there unless you tell me otherwise. Yes I have DVD units in both machines as well as a spare 16Gb USB drive

Machine is Dell Inspiron 1525
Processor Intel Core TM2 Duo CPU T5750 2 GHz
32 bit OS X64 processor
Bios 27d90a 1B Phoenix ROM Bios plus Version 1.10 A17

Currently on the USB stick are:
Rufus
LICK 1.3.4 WIN 32.
As recommended, I have deleted PAHR 6.05 PAE but have yet to download a different version. Which "frugal" version do you recommend please? As noted above, the Dell has a 64 Bit processor.

Installing Puppy and the bootloader to USB drive is a very safe option and maybe the way to go for a new user. I have alwys installed my Puppy's manually (easy if you can boot with a Puppy CD) and have never used programmes like Rufus and Lick. To avoid confusion I will leave it to puppians who do use these programmes to help you along with the installation. I would try Bionic 32-bit, Xenial 7.5 or Stretch 7.5 on your machine first.

Intel Core TM2 Duo CPU T5750 2 GHz

This is suppose to be able to handle 32 or 64 bit operating systems.

Currently on the USB stick are:
Rufus
LICK 1.3.4 WIN 32.

To put Puppy on a USB you do not put these on the USB.
These are installer programs you use by running them in Windows.
Download them to a location in Windows and run them.

The USB needs to have nothing on it to start the install.
Best if it has one partition and that partition is formatted fat32, flagged boot.
Do you know how to partition and format a drive?

Use Rufus installer.
How to use Rufus
https://rufus.ie/en/
Download a Puppy iso and place it where you can find it.
Tell Rufus to install this Puppy iso and install to this USB drive.
When Rufus finishes. Puppy will be installed on the USB.

Reboot the computer and tell it to boot from the Puppy USB.
Do you know how to change the selected boot device the computer boots from?

I suggest you try Bionicpup64 8.0 or Fossapup64 9.5
You can find them here:
https://puppylinux.com/

When you first boot the USB and get to a working desktop.
Do some of the basic settings.
Do a reboot and make a save file/folder.
After it reboots now using the save.
You have what is needed to properly do things in Puppy.

Bionicpup and Fossapup have the Quickpet program.
Run Quickpet->Info->bionicpup/fossapup updates.
Reboot and save.
Now you have the latest bug fixes and updates for them.

If you have any problem.
Be detailed and specific.
You do what?
You see what?

The Puppy spy satellite is not getting a good image of your computer screen!
We only know what you tell us!

I must be even dumber than I thought.

Rufus has been downloaded onto the C drive and I have successfully partitioned the USB drive

Bionicpup64-8.0-uefi has been downloaded onto the USB drive also

But - I am buggered if I can make Rufus load the disk image file I have tried all the setting options but It keeps telling me it cannot assign a drive letter

I have tried several times to paste an image of the Rufus settings but that does not work

alanL wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:23 am

Yes I have DVD units in both machines

If you have difficulty making progress with getting Puppy on the usb stick I would try this:

- Download a Bionicpup64 iso (sounds like you already have this available)
- Burn the iso to CD (hopefully you will have a burning program on Windows that can achieve this easily)
- Try booting from the CD

If the CD boots into Puppy Bionic64 ok then we can give further instructions to load Puppy to the usb stick.
(I find it easier from Puppy than from Windows)

If the CD won't boot then it may be necessary for us to look more closely at the bios/uefi settings in your PC.

I recommend starting from scratch & running Xenial or Bionic from USB with this tool:

https://www.pendrivelinux.com/

No installation. No modifications to Windows internal hd. Puppy compatible.

UUI is for a single Linux. YUMI can boot as many as you can fit on your USB.

It's much easier than your undertaking.

But - I am buggered if I can make Rufus load the disk image file I have tried all the setting options but It keeps telling me it cannot assign a drive letter

Is the Puppy iso located on the USB?
If yes.
Put the iso someplace not on the USB.
Then run Rufus.

If this is not the problem.
Where exactly is the Puppy iso located?

bigpup wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:05 pm

...Put the iso someplace not on the USB.
Then run Rufus.

Brilliant Catch, bigpup.
The first thing rufus will do is format the USB wiping out everything on it including the ISO you've told it to use. I'm guessing that the devs at rufus have included a 'fail-safe' routine to stop the rufus from running in order to prevent that. Maybe in the future they'll add a "Notice" as to why it fails.

Yes! Copied the bionicpup files across to "programs" on the C drive, then used Rufus to install the app onto the USB - also loaded it onto a new DR rom - both successfully thank you.
It also automatically out Windows installer and several other files onto these drives so with luck, either will now boot into LInux Puppy.

I'm about to log off and try it - will post an update later

alanL wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:02 am

Yes! Copied the bionicpup files across to "programs" on the C drive, then used Rufus to install the app onto the USB - also loaded it onto a new DR rom - both successfully thank you.
It also automatically out Windows installer and several other files onto these drives so with luck, either will now boot into LInux Puppy.

I'm about to log off and try it - will post an update later

Well done. So do you boot Puppy now via the USB stick and if so, do you have an option to boot Windows too (when booting from the USB stick)? Because if you can't, you don't really have a dual-boot stystem.

My thanks to all of you who have generously provided advice about this issue.

I now have a simple way to load the OS options, but past that stage, the selections just do not work, loading either Grub or Lick from which no commands will find or load the Linux Puppy OS. I have tried many options without success. To get out of that and back into WIN10, it takes several minutes of frustration during which nothing on the PC will load

No matter - I can always move forward at some later date. Meanwhile, enough is enough. I have wasted too much time with little benefit, other than to clean out a huge amount of MS crap from the Dell and back up all my files and programs onto the Compaq that I shall now use as my main PC, because it is faster and evades the rubbish automatically downloaded by Microshit with every Win10 "update."

Thanks again

Alan

^This is how I dual boot windows 10:

viewtopic.php?f=155&t=3115

It is very simple...you just install the third party boot loader as an administrator, put any puppy.iso in any partition you wish and extract the .sfs files and put them in the same place as the root...

I don't use USB flash drives.... I actually figured this out on my own a while back.... ...I am stubborn trying different things...

The fatdog64: viewforum.php?f=60 does not need to extract any .sfs from the root....it just boots up from the .iso alone.... I can make a video step by step if you are still up for the challenge...

I now have a simple way to load the OS options, but past that stage, the selections just do not work, loading either Grub or Lick from which no commands will find or load the Linux Puppy OS. I have tried many options without success. To get out of that and back into WIN10, it takes several minutes of frustration during which nothing on the PC will load

You have done something wrong!!!

But with information like this, we have no idea what it is, because we do not exactly know what you are doing!
We need specific details!
You do what?
You see what?

loading either Grub or Lick from which no commands will find or load the Linux Puppy OS

Where are these boot loaders installed?
You installed them how?
You only should install one to boot the computer.
What specific version of Puppy?
Where is the Puppy version installed?
What specific boot menu entries do you see?
Specific details!!!!!

If you used Rufus to install a Puppy iso on a USB drive.
It worked with no errors reported.
There will be a boot loader on the USB, to use to boot what is on the USB.
When computer first starts. You access the computers boot device menu (some specif key pressed, just as computer powers on) and select the USB as device to boot from.
You should see the Puppy boot menu, with selections for how to boot Puppy.
It should boot to working desktop, if you select the correct menu entry. (actually the default boot option should run after 10 sec of selecting nothing in the menu)
But you give us no info on what you specifically see or what you do?

I now have a simple way to load the OS options,

What simple way???????

greengeek wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:29 am

If the CD won't boot then it may be necessary for us to look more closely at the bios/uefi settings in your PC.

Alan,

making a puppy bootable media is half the battle, and you may well have a bootable puppy at this point.

making a few adjustments to your machine bios and your windows hibernation settings may be all thats stopping your USB or CD from booting. Microsoft likes to design roadblocks into their products and coerce computer vendors to shipping equipment with configurations that make life hard for users to see what linux is all about.

Should you revisit your work, read https://itsfoss.com/disable-secure-boot-windows/ about turning off secure boot and https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001762.htm about turning off fast startup. These secure boot and fast startup instructions apply to making any linux boot on a machine that has only used windows in the past.

alanL wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:17 am

To get out of that and back into WIN10, it takes several minutes of frustration during which nothing on the PC will load

I feel your frustrations. Been there.

I think you're politely stating neither Windows nor Puppy will load.

If not, your priority is getting Windows back.

If you can stabilize at the point where Windows 10 boots normally, the wisest place for a beginner is to leave it alone and boot Puppy from media (e.g., USB).

At that point, the way to 'dual boot' is to use the external device when you want Puppy and nothing to boot Windows.

After that you can grow to understand your healthy boot alternatives.

I'm still growing myself, and I'm past wasting too much time 10 times over.

Early on it seemed like all the seasoned Puppy users were booting GRUB4DOS with various setups.

I always boot it, YUMI, or nothing for Windows.

Think bootloader.

You change it on your default Windows partition, you won't find it easy going back. A USB is open terrain.

At this point if nothing works, it might not hurt anything to mess with your hard drive again (e.g., run G4D for your Windows hd partition).

The way to do that is to boot the non-booting machine from USB and run the app.

There is also an issue for a newbie to understand and that is: sometimes automatically generated boot menus are erroneous or lacking. To fix them you first have to suspect them and learn what to look for.