Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Hello all,

Is it possible, I know it is, but how hard is that to hide all the text from Puppy's opening, splash, welcome, or whatnot screen, then cover or replace it with a cute Puppy logo all the way to the desktop?

We know that most mainstream users prefer GUI than non-GUI. Lines of text tend to be discouraging and looking far from being friendly for them.

Windows and macOS have minimum text, if any, on their welcome screens.

Very much appreciated!

Forum member ETP posted some info on the old forum regarding setting up boot methods that displayed certain images early in the boot process.

This may be worth a look:
https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... d2005c1a2b

Also i think there is something called "log level" which controls the verbosity displayed during boot.

Sorry i dont have more exact info.

greengeek wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 8:03 pm

Forum member ETP posted some info on the old forum regarding setting up boot methods that displayed certain images early in the boot process.

This may be worth a look:
https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... d2005c1a2b

Also i think there is something called "log level" which controls the verbosity displayed during boot.

Sorry i dont have more exact info.

What I did mean ...

On screen these are hidden:

1. The GNU GRUB
- Load grub.cfg from local disks
- Specify location of grub.cfg manually
- etc

2. *** fossapup64 9.5 Linux 5.4.53 [x86_64] ***
Waiting for USB storage..
Loading the 'puppy_, fdrv, zdrv, adrv, and so forth
Loading kernel modules...
Waiting for modules to complete loading...
Setting up services... and so forth

3. fossapup64 Linux
Linux 5.4.53 [x86_64 arch]
login ...: root login on 'tty1'
and so forth

To unhide, probably F8 could be assigned.

The only thing you can do on that is to echo all console outputs to /dev/null.
This would need to edit several files like the init script in intird.gz etc.pp.
I made this once, but it's a lot of work and some mean console outputs should not be echoed to /dev/null.

Simple answer:
do not look at monitor, when Puppy is booting.

You may not like seeing those messages, but if it does not boot.
What you see or do not see, while it is booting, is a big clue, as to what is wrong.

bigpup wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:57 am

Simple answer:
do not look at monitor, when Puppy is booting.

You may not like seeing those messages, but if it does not boot.
What you see or do not see, while it is booting, is a big clue, as to what is wrong.

No, not me but gramps, which Puppy Linux is intended for (last time I checked).

I just learned the fact that it is not the most "powerful" nor the "best" distros that win the largest pie, but the "friendliest" to users, like the 3M: MaXy, Manjy, and Minty.

Okay, let's make the default welcome screen with just Puppy logo, like Windows or Apple logo. Maximum GUI, minimum text.

For more advanced users like yourself, there is a "developer mode". Just hit F8 or whatever to toggle to text-mode for troubleshooting purposes etc.

Well, I gotta say this:-

On this new HP tower, Puppy is running so fast all that "text stuff" is gone after maybe 5-6 seconds. But I agree with others here; even though I myself much prefer GUIs wherever possible, Linux does have ONE big advantage over Windows (and Puppy over many other mainstream distros!).....which is, natch, that if anything is going wrong during the startup process, at least you get to see it, written out on the screen in plain text.

Far more comprehensible than the cryptic error codes you get with Windows..!

Anyway; it's an incredibly small price to pay for what has to be one of the very best, small, lightweight distros available anywhere. Don't knock it! I've got SO used to it that it simply doesn't 'register' any more.....

Mike.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 1:29 pm

Well, I gotta say this:-

On this new HP tower, Puppy is running so fast all that "text stuff" is gone after maybe 5-6 seconds. But I agree with others here; even though I myself much prefer GUIs wherever possible, Linux does have ONE big advantage over Windows (and Puppy over many other mainstream distros!).....which is, natch, that if anything is going wrong during the startup process, at least you get to see it, written out on the screen in plain text.

Far more comprehensible than the cryptic error codes you get with Windows..!

Anyway; it's an incredibly small price to pay for what has to be one of the very best, small, lightweight distros available anywhere. Don't knock it! I've got SO used to it that it simply doesn't 'register' any more.....

Mike.

Is replacing text-mode welcome screen with the "Puppy's small logo plus a progress bar underneath" (like Apple's/Windows') a big price to pay?

It might not be a big price to pay, but it's a lot of work to do.
Also, if you are using multiple different save files you'll need the output of its list to be able to choose one.

Nice Screens on boot process are not made to make you feel comfortable.
They are only created to keep you/the user stupid and dumb.
The creators of Windows and Mac don't want you to learn about your OS.
They want you kept at the lowest limit of knowledge, so you can't fix anything by yourself.

Why should Puppy Linux adopt this?

Is replacing text-mode welcome screen with the "Puppy's small logo plus a progress bar underneath" (like Apple's/Windows') a big price to pay?

It would mean putting the screen into a graphical mode to see a progress bar? If it's a text / ASCII based progress bar it might as well be the text output of what the machine is actually doing to boot.

It is difficult to make the machine do graphical it looks good stuff BEFORE it is actually booted and the X server is started....plus it adds to the time it takes to start......

sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:36 am

Okay, let's make the default welcome screen with just Puppy logo, like Windows or Apple logo. Maximum GUI, minimum text.

Picture or text is not a GUI. This is information.
In general, such issues should be decided by voting. Why is it me who was born sometime in a communist state talking about this ?

rockedge wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 4:17 pm

Is replacing text-mode welcome screen with the "Puppy's small logo plus a progress bar underneath" (like Apple's/Windows') a big price to pay?

It would mean putting the screen into a graphical mode to see a progress bar? If it's a text / ASCII based progress bar it might as well be the text output of what the machine is actually doing to boot.

It is difficult to make the machine do graphical it looks good stuff BEFORE it is actually booted and the X server is started....plus it adds to the time it takes to start......

Thank you, folks!
Last time I checked, Puppy was engineered for gramps and now it turns out to be misleading.
Puppy is actually for gramps' "PC" (their very old computers), not the computers' very old "users".
If that slogan of Mr. Kauler has long been abandoned, please excuse my ignorance.

@taersh / @rockedge :-

Heh. I absolutely have to agree with you, guys. Puppy Linux users are "empowered".....by an incredibly talented group of core developers and community coders (both you guys fall in there somewhere).

Yes, graphical stuff DOES "look nice". But splash screens

• a) Hide everything that's happening, and

• b) Take a lot of work to implement.

Yah, it sounds the easiest thing in the world to say "I want a picture instead of a bunch of text". But of course, the way Puppy is built & put-together, you have to sacrifice 'convenience' to get that lightness & speed. 'Convenience' uses a lot of data, takes up a lot of space, and just adds extra bulk to something that is trying to be as lightweight as it can. And that 'convenience' takes a lot of manual re-coding.

This is the 'trade-off' with Puppy. To get that lightness & sizzling speed/responsiveness, you HAVE to drop the fancy eye-candy.....which, as Rainer says, is only there to keep you, the user, ignorant.

---------------------------------

@sonny :-

Please understand one thing. Puppy is very much a "do-ocracy". If somebody WANTS to work on something, they will.....in their own time, and at their own pace. There's no schedule here; no 'team' of people working a 9 to 5 day on a guaranteed salary. Everything is done by talented volunteers, working in their own spare time, as & when real life permits.

Mind you, I CAN sympathise with, & understand where you're coming from. My Mum, bless her - 89 next birthday - still communicates via a corded landline and sends real letters via 'snail-mail'. She hasn't got the faintest interest in modern technology, and will declare to anyone that wants to listen that she hasn't got the time of day for the modern way of doing things. Her view is simple; where's the point in learning stuff for which she has no use, when in a couple of years she'll be pushing up the daisies anyway?

Don't think she sits & vegetates, either. She has a whole range of hobbies that keep her occupied.....and not one of them involves computers, tech or even electricity (except to power the light when it gets dark..!)

Different generation, mate.

Mike.

I regularly put Puppy Linux ( and the 'Dogs) up against the "big boys and girls"....and like most Chihuahua's, packs a huge punch in a little body...the heart and mind of a Lion in under 5 pounds.

I have stunned hardened developers with the things some Puppy's can do just as well if not better in ways that any full blown RedHat or Canonical, Micro$$ or Apple can do it.

Plus mine fits on a 4 G USB stick.......and will run on machines with no batteries, no hard drive and barely any RAM

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 4:43 pm

@taersh / @rockedge :-

Heh. I absolutely have to agree with you, guys. Puppy Linux users are "empowered".....by an incredibly talented group of core developers and community coders (both you guys fall in there somewhere).

Yes, graphical stuff DOES "look nice". But splash screens

• a) Hide everything that's happening, and

• b) Take a lot of work to implement.

Yah, it sounds the easiest thing in the world to say "I want a picture instead of a bunch of text". But of course, the way Puppy is built & put-together, you have to sacrifice 'convenience' to get that lightness & speed. 'Convenience' uses a lot of data, takes up a lot of space, and just adds extra bulk to something that is trying to be as lightweight as it can. And that 'convenience' takes a lot of manual re-coding.

This is the 'trade-off' with Puppy. To get that lightness & sizzling speed/responsiveness, you HAVE to drop the fancy eye-candy.....which, as Rainer says, is only there to keep you, the user, ignorant.

---------------------------------

@sonny :-

Please understand one thing. Puppy is very much a "do-ocracy". If somebody WANTS to work on something, they will.....in their own time, and at their own pace. There's no schedule here; no 'team' of people working a 9 to 5 day on a guaranteed salary. Everything is done by talented volunteers, working in their own spare time, as & when real life permits.

Mind you, I CAN sympathise with, & understand where you're coming from. My Mum, bless her - 89 next birthday - still communicates via a corded landline and sends real letters via 'snail-mail'. She hasn't got the faintest interest in modern technology, and will declare to anyone that wants to listen that she hasn't got the time of day for the modern way of doing things. Her view is simple; where's the point in learning stuff for which she has no use, when in a couple of years she'll be pushing up the daisies anyway?

Don't think she sits & vegetates, either. She has a whole range of hobbies that keep her occupied.....and not one of them involves computers, tech or even electricity (except to power the light when it gets dark..!)

Different generation, mate.

Mike.

This is simply not a technical issue whatsoever.
It's just to sync who we will target, what we want to achieve, what we claim, and how we deliver.
If that so, let's replace the motto "from gramps" to "for speed demons", "for CLI lovers", "for different generation" ...

bigpup wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:57 am

Simple answer:
do not look at monitor, when Puppy is booting.

You may not like seeing those messages, but if it does not boot.
What you see or do not see, while it is booting, is a big clue, as to what is wrong.

sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:36 am

No, not me but gramps, which Puppy Linux is intended for (last time I checked).

I don't agree that puppy is intended for "gramps" - what "check" do you mean? I have read the wording "grandpa friendly" but what does this mean? Big Buttons, no text to read ... ?

I just learned the fact that it is not the most "powerful" nor the "best" distros that win the largest pie, but the "friendliest" to users, like the 3M: MaXy, Manjy, and Minty.

MX shows boot messages at startup ... (though I didn't try to hide them). The other two I can't remember.

Okay, let's make the default welcome screen with just Puppy logo, like Windows or Apple logo. Maximum GUI, minimum text.

Makes it a OS "friendlier" when you have to unconsciously stare at a logo at booting - and how does this "win a big pie of the cake"?

sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 4:37 pm

Puppy is actually for gramps' "PC" (their very old computers), not the computers' very old "users".

I have a familiar old man twice as old as me, whose computer and smartphone are much more modern than mine. I helped him order a smartphone in a Banggood store, but the very fact is that old people(and their equipment) can be completely different and dissimilar
My uncle, on the other hand, thinks computers are the work of the Devil

rockedge wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 4:46 pm

I regularly put Puppy Linux ( and the 'Dogs) up against the "big boys and girls"....and like most Chihuahua's, packs a huge punch in a little body...the heart and mind of a Lion in under 5 pounds.

I have stunned hardened developers with the things some Puppy's can do just as well if not better in ways that any full blown RedHat or Canonical, Micro$$ or Apple can do it.

Plus mine fits on a 4 G USB stick.......and will run on machines with no batteries, no hard drive and barely any RAM

That's what I thought so, Rock.
Puppy Linux is more precisely designed for gramps' computers (not so much for gramps themselves).
Our all-star GNU/Linux proves to survive in very old computers and in USB media unlike those 5M (Micy, Macy, MaXy, Manjy, and Minty).

Grey wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:20 pm

sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 4:37 pm

Puppy is actually for gramps' "PC" (their very old computers), not the computers' very old "users".

I have a familiar old man twice as old as me, whose computer and smartphone are much more modern than mine. I helped him order a smartphone in a Banggood store, but the very fact is that old people(and their equipment) can be completely different and dissimilar
My uncle, on the other hand, thinks computers are the work of the Devil

Just one ultimate question:

What makes us think that Puppy Linux is for gramps?

sonny wrote:

What makes us think that Puppy Linux is for gramps?

this image keeps the NSA off of our backs

one wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:18 pm

bigpup wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 12:57 am

Simple answer:
do not look at monitor, when Puppy is booting.

You may not like seeing those messages, but if it does not boot.
What you see or do not see, while it is booting, is a big clue, as to what is wrong.

sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 2:36 am

No, not me but gramps, which Puppy Linux is intended for (last time I checked).

I don't agree that puppy is intended for "gramps" - what "check" do you mean? I have read the wording "grandpa friendly" but what does this mean? Big Buttons, no text to read ... ?

I just learned the fact that it is not the most "powerful" nor the "best" distros that win the largest pie, but the "friendliest" to users, like the 3M: MaXy, Manjy, and Minty.

MX shows boot messages at startup ... (though I didn't try to hide them). The other two I can't remember.

Okay, let's make the default welcome screen with just Puppy logo, like Windows or Apple logo. Maximum GUI, minimum text.

Makes it a OS "friendlier" when you have to unconsciously stare at a logo at booting - and how does this "win a big pie of the cake"?

Thanks, one.

1. So, you meant "grandpa-friendly" is not necessarily "for grandpa"?

2. It is a fact that Windows & macOS are the two leaders in desktop computing today. What do these two have in common in terms of their end-users (read: those who interact and use on regular basis)?

3. It is fact that the 3M; MaXy, Manjy, and Minty are the three most downloaded distros (based on DistroWatch). What do these three have in common in terms of their end-users (compared to other distros)?

rockedge wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:42 pm

sonny wrote:

What makes us think that Puppy Linux is for gramps?

this image keeps the NSA off of our backs

We have something in common, Rock.

I always tell my peers that I use Puppy Linux ... the all-star Linux ... the best-all-Linuxes ... the monogamous Linux!

sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:46 pm

Thanks, one.

1. So, you meant "grandpa-friendly" is not necessarily "for grandpa"?

2. It is a fact that Windows & macOS are the two leaders in desktop computing today. What do these two have in common in terms of their end-users (read: those who interact and use on regular basis)?

3. It is fact that the 3M; MaXy, Manjy, and Minty are the three most downloaded distros (based on DistroWatch). What do these three have in common in terms of their end-users (compared to other distros)?

ad 1. yes (btw. I was asking myself what this means (BIG buttons, no text or what?)

ad 2.a preinstalled on nearly every PC creeping into the minds of people ...
ad 2.b nimbus

ad 3. reputation and name-dropping

one wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 6:12 pm

sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:46 pm

Thanks, one.

1. So, you meant "grandpa-friendly" is not necessarily "for grandpa"?

2. It is a fact that Windows & macOS are the two leaders in desktop computing today. What do these two have in common in terms of their end-users (read: those who interact and use on regular basis)?

3. It is fact that the 3M; MaXy, Manjy, and Minty are the three most downloaded distros (based on DistroWatch). What do these three have in common in terms of their end-users (compared to other distros)?

ad 1. yes (btw. I was asking myself what this means (BIG buttons, no text or what?)

ad 2.a preinstalled on nearly every PC creeping into the minds of people ...
ad 2.b nimbus

ad 3. reputation and name-dropping

As for me, nothing checks more than their UI friendliness.
I believe "nothing beats friendliness". Even both noobs and nerds love it.
I just want to see Puppy stay true to its vision and consistently deliver what it claims.

sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:46 pm

What do these three have in common

I hear about all three for the first time in my life - that's what they have in common

sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:46 pm

It is fact that the 3M; MaXy, Manjy, and Minty are the three most downloaded distros (based on DistroWatch).

We do not know what these users are doing after downloading.
1. Do they constantly use it?
2. They launch it once and go to the forums to discuss how many distros have they tried in life?
3. Never launch or try?

It is fact that the 3M; MaXy, Manjy, and Minty are the three most downloaded distros (based on DistroWatch).

That Distrowatch hit list ranking has nothing to do with how good an operating system (OS) is.
It is just how many times people look at the specific OS.
Mx-Linux user ranking 8.7
Puppy Linux user ranking 9.0

Puppy Linux was 2 on that Distrowatch hit list, when some of the computer web sites, were doing reviews of Puppy Linux.

It is easy to get lots of hits, when at the top of this hit list.
People have some idea, that the first few listed OS's, must be the best ones.

Grey wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 6:47 pm

sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:46 pm

What do these three have in common

I hear about all three for the first time in my life - that's what they have in common

sonny wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:46 pm

It is fact that the 3M; MaXy, Manjy, and Minty are the three most downloaded distros (based on DistroWatch).

We do not know what these users are doing after downloading.
1. Do they constantly use it?
2. They launch it once and go to the forums to discuss how many distros have they tried in life?
3. Never launch or try?

Whether they just download-it-and-store-it, friendliness is a factor.

bigpup wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 6:54 pm

It is fact that the 3M; MaXy, Manjy, and Minty are the three most downloaded distros (based on DistroWatch).

That Distrowatch hit list ranking has nothing to do with how good an operating system (OS) is.
It is just how many times people look at the specific OS.
Mx-Linux user ranking 8.7
Puppy Linux user ranking 9.0

Puppy Linux was 2 on that Distrowatch hit list, when some of the computer web sites, were doing reviews of Puppy Linux.

It is easy to get lots of hits, when at the top of this hit list.
People have some idea, that the first few listed OS's, must be the best ones.

As I mentioned, it's not only the power that wins users' hearts.

It's how the UI looks and how the UX makes the users feel.

Friendliness seems to be a factor, yes. But even that friendliness is relative from different point of views.
From my point of view friendliness has nothing to do with how nice a GUI or Window Manager might look like.
Friendliness to me is e.g. running as root. When I'm running MX Linux or any other major distribution I have to enter a ROOT password each time when e.g. installing a program.
In Puppy I don't need that. And the more important: I even don't want that!

In my ArtStudio64 I can do everything I want to do. Everything of what for I'm using a computer is possible. At least as good as in major distributions.
And thanks to all the messages at the boot prompt I was able to do very special and absolute unique modifications that only exist in my ArtStudio64.

I recall me one also being annoyed when I saw all those boot messages the first time. But that was not the fault of those messages. I just didn't know it better. And the more worse: I even didn't know me one being betrayed all those Windows years!

taersh wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 7:39 pm

Friendliness seems to be a factor, yes. But even that friendliness is relative from different point of views.
From my point of view friendliness has nothing to do with how nice a GUI or Window Manager might look like.
Friendliness to me is e.g. running as root. When I'm running MX Linux or any other major distribution I have to enter a ROOT password each time when e.g. installing a program.
In Puppy I don't need that. And the more important: I even don't want that!

In my ArtStudio64 I can do everything I want to do. Everything of what for I'm using a computer is possible. At least as good as in major distributions.
And thanks to all the messages at the boot prompt I was able to do very special and absolute unique modifications that only exist in my ArtStudio64.

I recall me one also being annoyed when I saw all those boot messages the first time. But that was not the fault of those messages. I just didn't know it better. And the more worse: I even didn't know me one being betrayed all those Windows years!

Indeed the market's point of views which the vast majority are pure user.
I don't know if the Puppy team has a vision or whatnot.
If the target market is the kind of majority in this forum, then no need to change Puppy's look and feel forever.