Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Cagepup64 is deprecated. Almost all of its features are now merged into woof-CE.

If you like it, you can switch to Vanilla Dpup: viewtopic.php?f=144&t=4093

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This is an early technical preview of the development happening in https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/2265 and beyond, and a call for Puppy fans looking to help test/debug something new, shiny and super buggy. This is not a Puppy you can (or want) to use as your daily driver. It's in pretty good shape

This is a traditional "dpup", based on Debian Bullseye packages, but with a twist: JWM and the ROX-Filer pinboard are running on top of a fullscreen Xwayland under Cage, so this Puppy uses Wayland rather than X.Org, but not really.

Basically, it's the regular Puppy desktop, but with Wayland's tear-free rendering, the fixes that go into Xwayland while the old X.Org server doesn't have regular releases, and without the large number of packages X.Org consists of, making Puppy smaller. Most things you're used to, including stuff like xdotool, should work just fine. Puppy's tradition of using GTK+ 2 almost exclusively is compatible with this Puppy (although it uses GTK+ 3 for everything except ROX-Filer and Sylpheed).

(I was able to install Xfce and KDE, for those who wonder if it's only JWM that works )

Cage is patched (https://github.com/Hjdskes/cage/pull/188) so pointer device settings can be specified via environment variables, and Puppy's xkbconfigmanager, etc' are patched to provide these variables via ~/.Xwaylandrc. This is not a Wayland, Xwayland or Cage configuration file, but a Puppy-specific configuration file I came up with to hold the environment variables, and this might change soon.

Some things don't work right - for example, restarting X via the menu doesn't work, and multi-monitor setups are weird. I have no idea if it's going to work with NVIDIA (automatic fallback to X.Org) or AMD graphics, and whether or not their proprietary drivers will work. But on the plus side, rendering is tear-free, animations are smooth and everything feels fast, in all machines I tested on!

Download here:
https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... prealpha10
https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... eprealpha9
https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... eprealpha8 bad build, an important fix is missing
https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... eprealpha7
https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... eprealpha6
https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... eprealpha5
https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... eprealpha4
https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... eprealpha3
https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... eprealpha2 broken build
https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/releas ... eprealpha1

Changes since prepreprealpha9:

• New kernel configuration based on the Debian Bullseye configuration, for better hardware support thanks to a larger selection of drivers

• Fix for an issue that prevents D-Bus and everything that uses it (including audio) from working

• systemd's udev replaces eudev

• Alt-Tab now behaves more like Alt-Tab on other window managers and desktops

• Various theme fixes - most notably, the 412 theme wallpaper is now scaled to 16:9 4K

• The sound wizard is now disabled, because it doesn't work when using PulseAudio

• Automatic fallback to X.Org when using QEMU's -vga std

Changes since prepreprealpha8:

• /tmp/xerrs.log is disabled, because it's huge (https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/2460)

• Release note updates

Changes since prepreprealpha7:

• The "RAM Saver" (https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/2435) - ~10% reduction in RAM usage

• A revived Gradient-grey theme (https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/2459)

• The merged /usr directory layout (https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/2445)

• ffmpeg and libva are moved to adrv

• Various woof-CE fixes, including ones that reduce the main SFS size

• Support for microcode update

Changes since prepreprealpha6:

• Updated to Xwayland 21.1.2 and wlroots 0.14.1

• Automatic fallback to X.Org when using NVIDIA drivers is restored

• Various woof-CE fixes

Changes since prepreprealpha5:

• Updated wlroots to 0.14.0, with fallback to the pixman software renderer

• Added missing non-free firmware

• Added support for Bluetooth

• Many other woof-CE changes, including the inclusion of acpid, improved dependency resolution, better D-Bus support and more

Changes since prepreprealpha4:

• Automatic fallback to X.Org when using NVIDIA GPUs

• Kernel configuration tweaks for reduced memory and power consumption

• Support for VA API video decoding in Firefox

• GTK+ 3 animations are disabled, to speed up rendering on slow machines

• Various GTK+ 3 changes (gtkdialog wizard layout, themes, icons)

• Many missing dependencies are now included, so packages installed by PPM are more likely to work

Changes since prepreprealpha3:

• 256K block size for zstd (increase in size, 293 -> 299 MB)

• A working fix for DPI in GTK+ 3 applications

• Ability to adjust more touchpad settings, via the keyboard/mouse wizard

Changes since prepreprealpha2:

• Fixed the permissions of /usr/bin/startxwayland, it became non-executable

Changes since prepreprealpha1 (https://github.com/dimkr/woof-CE/compar ... ...7ea4d2b):

• Added the missing libdrm-intel1

• Switched to release builds of Cage, Xwayland, etc'

• Added swayidle and screensaver support

• Xwayland now runs with the DPI specified in ~/.Xresources

@dimkr cool stuff. I've downloaded the ISO and devx and am getting Cagepup64 ready to run.

First test is the hard one, install newest Hiawatha, mariaDB, PHP 7.4 (maybe PHP 8) then see if I can add all the dependencies including the PERL modules to compile a build of ZoneMinder. I might though just see if WordPress will install and run with this web server setup to start.

rockedge wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 12:19 pm

First test is the hard one, install newest Hiawatha, mariaDB, PHP 7.4 (maybe PHP 8) then see if I can add all the dependencies including the PERL modules to compile a build of ZoneMinder. I might though just see if WordPress will install and run with this web server setup to start.

All these things have nothing to do with graphics, displays, keyboards, mice, etc'. If that's what you want to test then fine, but where's the fun? This (experimental) Puppy can run stuff like PHP just like any other Puppy.

Tried running in Qemu, which is running in Fossapup.
With "force xorgwizard" - no cursor and bottom icons:

In normal boot mode, there are lower icons and a bar on top, but nothing else:

Changed driver from virtio to std but doesn't help. I'll dig around to find out the reason, if I have the time and desire.

Grey wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 8:21 pm

Tried running in Qemu, which is running in Fossapup.
With "force xorgwizard" - no cursor and bottom icons:

Yes, there's no xorg.conf or xorgwizard when using Xwayland. Xwayland doesn't read xorg.conf at all.

Grey wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 8:21 pm

Changed driver from virtio to std but doesn't help. I'll dig around to find out the reason, if I have the time and desire.

What QEMU command-line did you use? So far, all attempts to get a graphical desktop failed for me and I'm passing -enable-kvm. I'll debug VM-related issue later, but I want to be ready.

No go on my dell laptop. Black screen with empty jwm top and bottom bars. Probably the lack of the libdrm-intel thingy.

dimkr wrote:

All these things have nothing to do with graphics, displays, keyboards, mice, etc

This test of this install will test every single one of these parameters severely. What are you talking about?

You know what? forget it. You really should stick to what you know. Zoneminder will strain every single one of these things plus see if the system will do ANYTHING useful... I think you insulted me and I will consider a response.

@dimkr I'll never again test a single thing you publish. Cagepup64 DELETED

@rockedge I only tried to save you time, no to offend you. This is alpha-quality stuff. I can't guarantee you'll be able to use it for a server, and that's not a priority at the moment. There's a good chance you're wasting your time (and better off using some other Puppy for your server), and not testing something that really needs testing, like dual-GPU or dual-monitor setups.

01micko wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:08 pm

No go on my dell laptop. Black screen with empty jwm top and bottom bars. Probably the lack of the libdrm-intel thingy.

Will be fixed in the next build! Saw it on an old laptop I have lying around, but this laptop reaches the desktop and I had to grep the logs for errors to find out about this issue

Machine: compaq Presario CQ61
Ram 1gig

Pros. Sound works. Boots to desktop and Soundworks. Connects to wifi no problem.

Cons. Won't shutdown Properly without holding down powerbutton.

A manual frugal installl to the internal SSD in my Dell laptop. The only issue I am having is how to alter the sensitivity of the touchpad and turn off tapping on the touchpad. The sensitivity and tapping issue is only a minor issue, for testing purposes it is still quite usable. This project should be a good way for the Puppy community to be introduced to Wayland. So far seems like a great start.

Finding details on the internet foo wayland has been one of the most frustrating things I've attempted. No man pages appear to exist. Question on the internet appear to be unanswered or unsolved. After several searches I ended up at wayland.freedesktop.org. I gave up when this reference ended up a dead end:
Tapping can be enabled/disabled on a per-device basis.
See libinput_device_config_tap_set_enabled() for details.

This was the only reference mentioning libinput_tap_set_enabled() on the website.
I checked in PPM, there are 2 libinput packages identified as installed. So hopefully something may be able to be done to change the tapping behaviour.

I also found /etc/udev/hwdb.d/70-touchpad.hwdbng[/i}, this looked promising, but as the first line stated that this is a systemd file, plus having no knowledge of how it may do what I want to do.

So, is how is touchpad control achieved when using wayland?


On another note. I downloaded audacious (plus 79 dependencies). Installation was successful and local stored music plays. The audcious GUI is rendered without issue. So due to number of dependencies, I'll probably create an sfs for it.

I've tested a3 on my AMD Athlon 3000G system and it behaves quite normally.

I did a manual frugal install, on a FAT32 SD card, with my 5.12.3 kernel that has the up to date amdgpu and raven2 firmware.
The messages look normal, but what is the equivalent of xorg.0.log?

glxgears runs OK

I loaded my Vivaldi 3.3 .sfs OK, but there are too many missing dependencies go any further.

TerryH wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 6:46 pm

So, is how is touchpad control achieved when using wayland?

@TerryH Use the keyboard/mouse wizard. I added support for controlling touchpads there, and you can turn off tap-to-click, and set the sensitivity! Bear in mind that there's no such thing as "input settings on Wayland" because every compositor (the Wayland equivalent of DE or window manager) is responsible for configuring input devices and does that differently. Also, we're not really using Wayland "properly" here because all applications run inside Xwayland.

darry19662018 wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 6:42 pm

Cons. Won't shutdown Properly without holding down powerbutton.

@darry19662018 Is that with prepreprealpha1? I had this issue multiple times and fixed it.

LateAdopter wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 7:04 pm

I've tested a3 on my AMD Athlon 3000G system and it behaves quite normally.

Thanks @LateAdopter! It's good to see it works with AMD graphics, at least with one computer.

LateAdopter wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 7:04 pm

The messages look normal, but what is the equivalent of xorg.0.log?

There's no Xorg.0.log, only /tmp/xerrs.log

Booted from USB stick using Isobooter.
HP Elitebook 8530w
Core Duo 2.5ghz
4 gig RAM
NVIDIA Quadro FX 770M

Works quite nicely. Got online easily enough, also tried Palemoon and Librewolf (AppImage). Some Youtube videos would not play (unclear why) on any of the browsers, but those that did looked really nice - sharper than usual.

I have booted the same frugal install on my Intel Braswell N3150. It behaves normally to the extent that it freezes just like the standard fossapup64 does. I think it may be because your zstd block size is too big. It's 524k just like fossapup64. I re-squashed fossapup with half that block size and it's been OK since.

dimkr wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 5:08 am

What QEMU command-line did you use? So far, all attempts to get a graphical desktop failed for me and I'm passing -enable-kvm. I'll debug VM-related issue later, but I want to be ready.

I managed to run with the following parameters :
-cpu host -vga cirrus -usb -device usb-tablet -display sdl,gl=on -device ac97
KVM enabled in QEMU GUI. The most important thing -vga cirrus

I installed HardInfo from PM. Here's a section for OpenGL, acceleration is present:

If possible, please make it possible to navigate through the tabs in programs by scrolling the mouse wheel.

A little observation. CPU of the main system heats up to 47 degrees when watching a video in Qemu on YouTube in Cagepup. Fossapup only heats up to 41(-vga virtio)

dimkr wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 7:44 pm

TerryH wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 6:46 pm

So, is how is touchpad control achieved when using wayland?

@TerryH Use the keyboard/mouse wizard. I added support for controlling touchpads there, and you can turn off tap-to-click, and set the sensitivity! Bear in mind that there's no such thing as "input settings on Wayland" because every compositor (the Wayland equivalent of DE or window manager) is responsible for configuring input devices and does that differently. Also, we're not really using Wayland "properly" here because all applications run inside Xwayland.

Thank you, I should have seen that and checked if it has touchpad support. Went off hunting online too quickly.

Keef wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 7:52 pm

NVIDIA Quadro FX 770M

Thanks @Keef!

LateAdopter wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 7:53 pm

I re-squashed fossapup with half that block size and it's been OK since.

@LateAdopter that's weird! What block sizes work?

Grey wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 8:26 pm

I installed HardInfo from PM. Here's a section for OpenGL, acceleration is present:

@Grey This is not 100% true, the VM is using llvmpipe (software renderer). Maybe acceleration with llvmpipe is more CPU intensive than no acceleration at all, in this particular case

Grey wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 8:26 pm

If possible, please make it possible to navigate through the tabs in programs by scrolling the mouse wheel.

I'll check this out, thanks.

dimkr wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 5:01 am

Grey wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 8:26 pm

If possible, please make it possible to navigate through the tabs in programs by scrolling the mouse wheel.

I'll check this out, thanks.

Support for switching tabs using the mouse wheel was dropped from GTK+ 3 and it's not coming back

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/234

dimkr wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 5:42 am

Support for switching tabs using the mouse wheel was dropped from GTK+ 3 and it's not coming back
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/234

It works in Fossapup. For example Menu>>System>>Boot Manager Maybe there is some kind of patch, I didn't really study it.

Grey wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 6:10 am

dimkr wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 5:42 am

Support for switching tabs using the mouse wheel was dropped from GTK+ 3 and it's not coming back
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/issues/234

It works in Fossapup. For example Menu>>System>>Boot Manager

Fossapup uses GTK+ 2 (at least, in LXTerminal), and it's GTK+ 3 that dropped this feature.

@Grey Thanks! -vga cirrus -cpu host works indeed. Not sure why it doesn't work with just -vga cirrus (black screen).

I think the block size issue is a "last straw" type of problem...
Bionicpup64 had -comp xv -b 512K and that was OK, but splitting off the A Drive in Fossapup64 was the last straw.
The Intel Braswell SoC has 512k L2 cache per core and no L3. So the 512K squashfs dictionary and data won't both fit in the cache.

When running built-in applications from the A drive it has two squashfs files to use at once and the system seizes up. My Athlon 3000G has a 4MB L3 cache and doesn't have a problem.

The default -b 128K and also -b 256K both work OK with the Braswell N3150.

This problem probably affects quad core Baytrail, Braswell and Apollo Lake. The dual core versions have 1MB per core and Gemini Lake has double the amount of cache across the board, so they shouldn't be affected.

dimkr wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 7:44 pm

TerryH wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 6:46 pm

So, is how is touchpad control achieved when using wayland?

@TerryH Use the keyboard/mouse wizard. I added support for controlling touchpads there, and you can turn off tap-to-click, and set the sensitivity! Bear in mind that there's no such thing as "input settings on Wayland" because every compositor (the Wayland equivalent of DE or window manager) is responsible for configuring input devices and does that differently. Also, we're not really using Wayland "properly" here because all applications run inside Xwayland.

darry19662018 wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 6:42 pm

Cons. Won't shutdown Properly without holding down powerbutton.

@darry19662018 Is that with prepreprealpha1? I had this issue multiple times and fixed it.

LateAdopter wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 7:04 pm

I've tested a3 on my AMD Athlon 3000G system and it behaves quite normally.

Thanks @LateAdopter! It's good to see it works with AMD graphics, at least with one computer.

LateAdopter wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 7:04 pm

The messages look normal, but what is the equivalent of xorg.0.log?

There's no Xorg.0.log, only /tmp/xerrs.log

Nope Prepreprealpha3 - sorry..

Building prepreprealpha4, this time with:

• 256K block size for zstd (should increase size of the main SFS by ~4 MB if my test was correct)

• A working fix for DPI in GTK+ 3 applications

• Ability to adjust more touchpad settings, via the keyboard/mouse wizard

I've tried alpha4 on my Braswell N3150 and it seems to behave OK. The good sign is that the Puppy Package Manager will now start at the first attempt. Previously the first try would fail leaving it's message box forever.

I have also tested booting from an SDXC card with just the original exFAT partition.
Grub4DOS is started from the PBS.
My 5.12.3 kernel has CONFIG_EXFAT_FS=y.

CagePup64 boots as normal on this configuration.

Still no go on Dell Latitude E7270 - black background with JWM bars top and bottom, no input.

I logged in on another tty and captured some logs. Let me know if you need more.

LateAdopter wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 7:00 pm

I've tried alpha4 on my Braswell N3150 and it seems to behave OK.

Thanks @LateAdopter! The block size fix went into https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE/pull/2272.

01micko wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 8:10 pm

Still no go on Dell Latitude E7270 - black background with JWM bars top and bottom, no input.

That's interesting. The repeated "Could not commit output" in xerrs.log is something I haven't seen before.

Downloaded this distro, alpha4, and burned to DVD using FossaPUP64. But this wont boot on anything I have.
Tried burning to CD, and same behavior.

The BIOS is NOT seeing the burned disc. Its not my hardware, as other distro discs are seen OK and I get to those's Menu; but, not the case on this distro.

Anyone else having/had the same problem with this distro on your PC(s)? Also, the loopback.cfg is missing making this different from other modern WoofCE builds. I cannot see anything wrong in /boot/grub, but something is amiss.

To everyone posting.
If you do not provide exact info on what specific version you are using.
It is very hard to know what you are using.
The latest version is alpha 4 at this posting.

Trying to work out bugs and get to something better than alpha status, is going to require willingness to always be trying to use the latest release.
Yes you will have to do a lot of update installs of the Cagepup64.
highly suggest only using a USB install, that can easily be written over with a newer version.
Checking in the newest release to see if your reported problem is now fixed.

Suggestion to dimkr.
Everyone of the alpha versions are named using the same iso name.
cagepup64-8.0.iso
How do I really know I have alpha 4 version?
Usually just changing the name of iso to say cagepup64-8.0.04.iso would be positive this is alpha 4.
As it progresses add to name .05, .06, .07, etc..............

bigpup wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 5:07 am

Usually just changing the name of iso to say cagepup64-8.0.04.iso would be positive this is alpha 4.
As it progresses add to name .05, .06, .07, etc..............

Will do, thanks @bigpup.

So far, the newest laptop I've been actively developing on is a Dell Latitude E7250. I'll do some testing on my partner's 10th gen Intel laptop, which has a dedicated NVIDIA GPU, with hope I can reproduce and debug the issue @01micko is seeing on Dell Latitude E7270.

Anyone see BarryK's blog Puppy Moving to Wayland, supporting this effort?