Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

first tks everyone an especially thru for all your help. i am doing things in puppy that i have done in other linux distros and they arent working here. fine just need to learn how to fix things in puppy. that said i again tried to install an old xfce4 pet file. my system froze up so did a forced reboot. then couldnt get x started. now running in ram mode. tried restarting and running echo "jwm" > /etc/windowmanager then xwin while in the virtual terminal but didnt work. note third over 3times.

sometimes i feel like the sorcerous apprentice in the disney movie fantasia/

https://video.disney.com/watch/sorcerer ... 59a5867853

Try

xwin jwm

or even

xwin /usr/bin/jwm

when you are at the prompt (no X).

Doesn't echo add a line to a file, not overwriting?
Yo know you have a text editor, Minimum Profit, on the prompt in Fossapup?

mp -txt /etc/windowmanager

Have you tried installing xfce through the PPM?

Also, there is at the moment a topic about alternative managers on the forum.
XFCE, Lxde & Other, alternate, Window Managers
There are packages on offer there, maybe some good advice as well.

I very much enjoyed your film suggestion.

i am doing things in puppy that i have done in other linux distros and they arent working here

That is because Puppy does some things the Puppy way.

This is the same for any operating system.
Software has to be compiled to work in a specific version of an operating system.
this applies to Puppy pet packages.

tried to install an old xfce4 pet file

This is probably just not compiled to work in Fossapup64 9.5
Some pet packages work in a lot of different Puppy versions, some do not.
Most likely this xfce4 pet does not have everything needed.
Wants support files/programs, that are not in Fossapup or not the same versions, as what is in Fossapup.

The easy answer, replace the old save file/folder, with the backup copy you made of the save file/folder, when everything was working.

If you have a boot menu that offers booting to a prompt.
The entry may be titled this:
"fossapup64 9.5 - No X"

Do that boot.
At the prompt enter:
xwin jwm

to make a boot menu entry do a boot to the prompt.
Before it activates press E key to edit.
Find the pfix= entry and change it to pfix=nox
Press enter key to make change active.
Press B key to boot.
Note:
This change is only for this one time booting, using that boot menu entry. It is only a temp. change to how it boots.

If you install xfce from PPM, then there are two options. 'xfce4_4.14' - actually only xfce. But there is also 'xubuntu-desktop_2.233' - complete xubuntu(xfce with additions). But if I remember correctly, there are some nuances. I even installed KDE once for a test.

big problem i have a continuous save file and that is whats messed up

What do you mean when you say you have a "continuous save file?"

That there's no other choice to boot into?

no just the ram only which is the standard puppy linux you get when first booting puppy. i still have access to the virtual terminal to run any command so i know it is fixable. son it has to be a terminal command or maybe a file i could copy into my save file.

Is this a stick with ONE savefile?

And which btldr (bootloader) have you got there? Is there a "menu.lst" file?

Yes? Copy and paste its contents here.

@rburkartjo which .pet did you install exactly?

from the prompt you could run

cat /var/packages/user-installed-packages

then

pkg rm nameofdodgypackage

Did you try what I posted earlier????????????

Running commands in a terminal, when booting not using the save, is not going to do anything to what is in the save.

You have to boot using the save, but only boot to the prompt.
There you can use commands, that will affect the rest of the boot to desktop, and over ride what is in the save.
You have to run the commands, before the window manager is used.
That is booting to only the prompt.

If you boot using the save ,but only boot to the prompt.
That is before the window manager gets loaded and used.
By typing xwin jwm
This should over ride, what is set in the save, as window manager to use, and use JWM.

You trying what we post and it not working, is a clue to us, as to what next to try.

rburkartjo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:51 pm

no just the ram only which is the standard puppy linux you get when first booting puppy. i still have access to the virtual terminal to run any command so i know it is fixable. son it has to be a terminal command or maybe a file i could copy into my save file.

You mean that you can run either without pupsave, just all in RAM
OR with the pupsave, but then you cannot access a desktop (jwm or XFCE) and you stop at the prompt?
Right?

When you boot into ram without pupsave, you look where the pupsave is.
Click the drive icons on your desktop (sda1, sda2, sda3, sdb1, ...) and look there.
When you have found it, go into the pupsave and find /etc/windowmanager.
You can delete the file or open it with a texteditor (geany) and put jwm in it.
Shut down without saving and reboot with the pupsave.

The other possibility:
You boot with the pupsave but you stop at the prompt.
Delete the file /etc/windowmanager (to be sure) and open jwm:

rm /etc/windowmanager
xwin jwm

(EDIT: This is what bigpup tells you. I was writing while @bigpup answered. )

.

Just an advice:
If one of those has worked, shut down while saving.
Reboot without pupsave (into RAM only), look up your pupsave through the drive icons on your desktop as explaind above
and copy your pupsave, so you have a good pupsave as fallback when things go wrong.
You have to put the copy somewhere under the desktop drive icons, that means 'ouside' Puppy itself.
Shutdown without saving and reboot with your pupsave to continue your adventures.
Make sure you make a fallback pupsave from time to time as explained here.

philb,

as an example, "dodgy" package would refer to which: "lxterminal" or "lxterminal_0.3.2-1_amd64.deb?"

In other words, the general name or the full package name?

IIRC, the "general" name is enough.

##########

rburkartjo, YES! It's your packages general name you'll use with rm: pkg rm [pkg_name]

In your case you're looking for either "xfce4" or "xubuntu-desktop" when running:

cat /var/packages/user-installed-packages

Then go ahead and re-kick xwin.

thru how do i check for installed files on my save file when i booted into the ram puppy.

Mount your save by clicking on it, then go into its /var/packages directory and right-clk "user-installed-packages." NOTE: I'm not sure this is possible.

Go to rename and highlight the entire path / copy / then cancel. Once you have this you'd then run:

cat /path/to/user-installed-packages

Hopefully you can follow what I've outlined.

If you struggled, I'm sure I'll hear about it.

If any of what I've outlined didn't go as expected, I'm pretty sure it's because you'd have to boot to a prompt ON THAT SAVE in order to run the commands philb suggested.

tks all will try in morning have to take my service dog out and do her daily training session.

ThruHammer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:31 pm

philb,

as an example, "dodgy" package would refer to which: "lxterminal" or "lxterminal_0.3.2-1_amd64.deb?"

In other words, the general name or the full package name?

IIRC, the "general" name is enough.

##########

rburkartjo, YES! It's your packages general name you'll use with rm: pkg rm [pkg_name]

In your case you're looking for either "xfce4" or "xubuntu-desktop" when running:

Code: Select all

cat /var/packages/user-installed-packages

Then go ahead and re-kick xwin.

if it's a pet you need the whole pet name i think ie pkg rm geany-plugins-1.35-x86_64 for debs it works with just the general name.

BTW xfce installed from the PPM in fossapup works nicely and gets some postinstall fixes for icons, removes thunar root warning, settings manager working and a window manager switcher

Thanks Mate. Just ran a quick test and "pkg rm [name-of-pet-alone]" works.

Now we both know. Thanks too for the info and confirmation about Xfce.

I guess our boy here may have tampered about more than was needed?

We'll soon hear how he got along...

ThruHammer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:03 am

Thanks Mate. Just ran a quick test and "pkg rm [name-of-pet-alone]" works.

Now we both know. Thanks too for the info and confirmation about Xfce.

I guess our boy here may have tampered about more than was needed?

We'll soon hear how he got along...

I don't know for sure, but I suspect "our boy" may be trying to use Puppy exactly as you would a mainstream distro.....and, as most of us are aware, that's usually a recipe for disaster..!

We'll put him right eventually.....

Mike.

rburkartjo "messed up x again" Emphasis supplied.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:06 pm

...
I don't know for sure, but I suspect "our boy" may be trying to use Puppy exactly as you would a mainstream distro.....and, as most of us are aware, that's usually a recipe for disaster..! We'll put him right eventually..... Mike.

Puppy is designed for exploring, experimenting, learning. But the first step is to appreciate and make use of that design. Puppy is to be run as a Frugal Install. As such, on boot-up, it merges the source file-systems in RAM and 'Runs-in-RAM'. Unless you allow it to do otherwise, it will only run in RAM, not preserving any mistakes you make. All mistakes only exist in RAM. You can shut-down --if necessary literally 'pull the plug'. Your mistakes won't survive the reboot and on the next boot-up it will be as if they never happened. You 'allow it to do otherwise' by not changing its default settings.

Older Puppies are configured to automatically Save the contents of RAM to Storage every 30 minutes. You can change that to 'Never' by opening Menu>System>Puppy Event Manager, Click the Save Session Tab and both (1) change the Save Interval to Zero/0 AND (2) put a check mark in the "Ask at Shutdown" box. Some newer Puppies already have that configuration. But there remains one more thing you must still do if your Puppy boots from a Hard-drive.
Regardless of what boot-loader you are using, if you boot from a hard-drive, the boot-loader will either include an argument recognizing that (pmedia=atahd) or silently assuming that. You have to 'trick' Puppy into treating your Storage mechanism as a USB-Stick. You do that by opening the menu.lst or grub.cfg in a text editor and changing or adding a pmedia argument to read pmedia=ataflash.
That argument goes on the line beginning with the word kernel or linux, depending on which boot-loader is used.
It takes 2 minutes to make the above changes. Doing that will avoid hours of trying to recover from mistakes.
There is one other technique I recommend while learning to make the most of Puppies: don't use SaveFolders. On first shut-down choose to create a SaveFile. Use a SaveFile even if your goal is to eventually run your Puppy without either a SaveFile or a SaveFolder: as by remastering or using nic07's Save2SFS, converting a SaveFile/Folder to a 'ydrv.sfs'.
Unlike a SaveFolder, a SaveFile is that, just one file. You can duplicate it in a couple of minutes. If you boot pfix=ram, you can duplicate your current SaveFile, copy it into a folder 2 levels from the Top --/Top-Level/Level1/Level2-- and on boot-up Puppy will not offer to use it. So it will remain just as you left it. There are some applications --a few-- you can't try out without Saving and Rebooting 'into them'. Only a Save can be broken. If and when that happens, again boot pfix=ram; delete the broken Save and replace it with your protected one. You're again 'as good as gold'.
'An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.'

@rburkartjo

i'm still interested in the name of the exact xfce.pet you installed and where you got it, so that i can take a look

cheers

okay thank you all and mike here is the pet file that i believe caused the problem XFCE-4.12r6b.pet
this is how i fixed
my save file is located in my / of my uubuntu partition
i had used timeshift to make a backup last week
booted into my ubuntu partition and installed backup
this restored puupy to last weeks version
just had to refix
the pdf problem which i did
and the vivaldi problem to run as spot so i could upload images to the puppy discussion board
could someone reply that they can see my attachment so i can confirm fix

I told you in some forum thread that Timeshift is a great thing Too bad it only works in Ubuntu/Mint but not Fossapup. I see the picture.

rburkartjo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:01 pm

here is the pet file that i believe caused the problem XFCE-4.12r6b.pet

no wonder that broke fossapup. it contains lots of old libs, old /etc/profile & old /root/.xinitrc. if you want xfce install from the PPM.

glad you fixed it