Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Hello
I created a bootable CD (using an iso file) which then opens Fossapup without any problems.
I then created a bootable USB memory stick which works well and I have installed Firefox and LibreOffice.
Now I want to create a bootable SD card (using a usb CD reader) but I cannot work out how to do this and can't remember how I created the bootable usb memory stick.
I have tried using INSTALL > INSTALL PUPPY > BOOTFLASH > I then select the usb drive (the only) option and it seems to want to format the entire SD card (it displays it as an 8GB device even though I partitioned it in Windows using FAT32) and I continued but then got completely lost).

Any assistance would be appreciated. Once again I want to create two partitions on the SD card and have the SD card as a bootable drive (Fossapup) and the other partition usable in Windows.

I think fossapup has frugalpup for making an install?

Do you wish to eventually remove the sd card from the usb reader and boot from it directly?

If you wish to pre partition the card you can do a manual frugal install to any partition you choose, but usually this is done if you wish to install to a linux partition you have created. If you did your partitioning with windows, then I think you have two fat32 partitions?

a normal work flow would be to create the partitions with gparted, a utility you can find on fossa. Perhaps one fat 32 and the other ext 2,3, or 4 for the frugal install ?

Can I ask why you need a fat 32 partition, or rather, how large it needs to be?

Thanks williwaw,

What I am trying to achieve is to create an SD card (I currently have a 8Gb SD card available and maybe I will later purchase a larger one) which I can use as BOTH a bootable drive for fossapup (one partition) and also a storage area for Windows (on the other partition) for use in my small laptop PC (Acer Inspire R11) if that is possible.
If it is possible and I create a bootable SD card which can also be used as a storage area for Windows to install Windows software to (the laptop inbuilt ssd drive is a pathetically small 32GB) I will then place the SD card into the laptop and use it both for Windows and Fossapup.
I was thinking during this procedure I would have 2 partitions both of 4GB each.

I already have created a usb memory stick as a bootable drive for fossapup which I am currently using to boot a desktop PC while I learn fossapup as it has a larger screen (24") which is a lot easier to read than the 10" screen on the laptop.

I looked at Frugalpup (it was already installed) but could not get it to work. I also looked at gparted (already installed) and couldn't get it to do what I wanted. Strangely now when I attempt to partition the SD card using Windows it displays an error 'unsupported action' or something like that. Maybe I have 'broken' the sd card.

I thought that the partitions needed formatting as FAT32 for Windows but maybe the partition for Fossapup needs formatting to another file system?

I realise that PCs can be set up to be dual booted from the 'primary drive' but as the laptop has Windows preinstalled I don't want to muck that up AND with Windows installed there is only around 6GB free on that 32GB disk anyway.

It might be a better option to try "stickpup" which is also included in Fossapup. This is the simplest way to get started with Puppy Linux other than a LIVE USB. This will automatically format and create a FAT32 partition with appropriate boot files and load up the frugal files from a Puppy ISO, eg, Fossapup.

However, I have no idea if it will work on an SD card, as opposed to a USB. And then some computers will not boot from a SD card anyway, in my experience. But worth having a go !

Thanks I will try that tomorrow.
I have faith that my laptop will boot from an SD as the friend who pup me on to 'puppy' had an earlier version (not fossapup) on an SD card in an older laptop than mine and with only 2GB RAM and boots his laptop from the SD.
Since I told him about fossapup he has 'upgraded'.

Hi @jarnie
So, you will need to get gparted on your side...
Start by creating a new partition table in "Device" tab.
From there the first partition should be Fat32. This can be your boot partition and the windows shareable partition,
The second should be ext3 or ext4 and will hold your puppy install, your save and extra sfs.
Set the boot flag on the fat32 partition after applying the changes.
Once that is done you can run frugalpup/stickpup but perhaps a manual install will suit better. ( it is what I and many others do here)
To do a manual install, create a folder "fossapup" on the ext partition.
go to the fossapup.iso, click to mount. Or, go to /mnt/home on your running fossapup.
Copy vmlinuz, initrd.gz and all the fossapup64-9.5.sfs files to the newly created folder.
Then run Grub4dos config from Menu > setup.
select the sd card, tick the box "search this drive only" ( or don't if you would like to be able to dual boot windows from this card)
let it finish. This will place the boot files at the root of the fat32 partition. you could create a folder there "shared" (or whatever) to use for windows/linux data.
Then reboot. hopefully your bios will see your sdcard.

Hope that makes sense...
This will all be second nature soon...

Edit: So I had assumed for no good reason that you were booting in legacy mode not uefi.
After looking up the model I see that Grub4dos is likely not what you want to use. You will need to use frugalpup/stickpup to install the uefi bootloader in order to dual boot windows 10.
Sorry for extra confusion.

puddlemoon is lining you out on the preferred way to do what you want. you will have to change a few settings in the laptop to let the grub4dos bootloader boot windows. alternately you could use frugalpup to set up a grub (uefi) bootloader. I'm sure others will weigh in soon to help you make the better choice.

Thanks heaps for the well itemised procedure.

Yesterday all hell broke loose to coin a phrase and luckily I had chosen to use my backup PC to try and create a bootable SD card.
During testing and trying to create partitions, rebooting etc etc etc all of a sudden that backup PC would not boot to anything including Windows.
I also found that when I attempted to change BIOS settings the 'mouse pointer' would not stop jumping around and completely impossible to control it using either the mouse or keyboard. I downloaded the latest BIOS 'file' from the manufacturer (on my usual PC) and copied to usb, booted the non working backup PC to BIOS settings and used QFLASH to reflash the BIOS. That fixed that problem. Then Windows would not boot and to cut a long story short it seems the boot disk priority had changed. Wow am I glad I am doing all this 'experimenting' using a backup PC. I am still scratching my head to try and work out what caused all this.
Anyway I will forge ahead.

lots of headaches....

two thing come to mind you might want to be aware of, if not already.

you should have a basic boot device menu available that simply shows you your bootable disks, and allows you to choose, usually arrow up or down, then enter. If you can see the disk or usb you want, then try to get by with the simple menu without making changes in the set up for a bit. If you cannot see your desired boot disk, then going into the setup may be necessary to make it visible. in the setup you can also reset the boot order in case you don't care to use the menu each time you want to boot into your preferred device. I always try to make the optical drive the first choice so I can use a cd as last resort if something goes wrong with configurations. If you dont have the cd in the tray, then the bios wont find it and skips to the bootable device(s) it does find.

there is a coin type battery on the motherboard that may need to be renewed so that bios setting are remembered. things can get flaky when the battery get old. timeouts, failures to remember etc.

williwaw wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:49 pm

you should have a basic boot device menu available that simply shows you your bootable disks, and allows you to choose

Thanks again.
Yes I choose not to set order of bootable disks in the BIOS settings choosing to press the F12 key during POST and selecting which device to boot from,

I have just discovered another problem. When I attempt to boot from my usb memory stick (which worked yesterday with LibreOffice and Firefox installed) it will not work today.
Starts ok with all the info about what is being copied to RAM etc, the (towards the end of the boot process) it displays a small window with a white background on the black screen with 2 or 3 lines displaying which all look ok, then the screen goes blank (black) with a NON FLASHING cursor top left of screen.
I then tried booting using my bootable DVD and that ended up exactly the same.
Looks like some setting in the BIOS perhaps. I will clear CMOS by removing the button battery for a while and try again.

OK you are doing all kinds of stuff without the knowledge on how to do what you are doing!

You have about 4 different issues all being talked about.

What do you want to fix first?

Linux always has about 10 different ways to do anything.

This is how I do installs to USB or SD card drives.
This is talking about a USB flash drive, but the same procedure works for an SD card.

Do all of this from a running Fossapup64 9.5.
It already has the needed programs.

Drive labels are going to depend on number of drives on the computer.
So, you do need to be careful to select the correct drive label, when offered to select.

This is what I do.

Using Gparted program
Delete all partitions on the USB drive, so it has all unallocated space.
Setup the USB with 2 partitions.
First one, small 300MB, fat32 format, flagged boot. (location for boot loader files, boot partition)
Rest of drive, whatever other partition(s), but one ext3 or 4 format. (location to put frugal installs)
(this is UEFI standard requirement, and some computers, look for a fat32 partition, for boot loader files)

Run Frugalpup Installer main program.
On the main window are selection buttons.
Select the Puppy button, to do the install.
Make sure to select the USB drive you want to install on.
Go through install process, selecting to install to the ext formatted partition.
Note:
When selecting the partition to install to.
A window pops up, giving option to make a directory(folder), to put the frugal install in.
I make this directory and usually name it, the name of the Puppy version.
Carefully read that windows info.
Press enter, makes the directory, not the OK button.
complete the install.

When it gets back to the main Frugalpup window.
Select the boot button.
Select the location of the frugal install, on the USB stick.
Select the small 300MB partition on the USB stick, as location to install the boot loader. (may need to scroll the selection window)
Select the boot loader type.
UEFI
mbr ->legacy bios boot
both

You can install the UEFI for UEFI computers, mbr for legacy bios computers, or both, to boot anything.

The UEFI will also install the needed files, to support secure boot enabled in UEFI.

When you first boot the USB stick, on a UEFI computer, with secure boot enabled.
A process will start, to allow you to install the Puppy security key, to the computer.
It will add this Puppy key, to the other ones, loaded on the computer.

Note:
Not all UEFI computers are the same, for booting from a USB stick.
Some may require secure boot disabled, CSM enabled, or legacy boot enabled, to be able to boot from a USB stick.
So, for those computers.
The mbr boot loader will work, because the UEFI bios, is basically in, legacy bios operation.

To put more frugal installs on the same USB stick.
Do the complete process again, for the new Puppy version.
When you run the boot loader install.
It will make entries, for all installs it finds, on the USB drive.

If you get lost or not sure what to exactly do.
Ask about that and only talk about that.

Do you actually know how to use Gparted program?
How to delete, partition, format, set a flag?

If you plug the SD card into the computer.
Do you know how to find out what drive letter it is identified as?
Needed to select the correct drive to do the install into.

Thanks bigpup

Problem is I can't even boot to fossapup 9.5 anymore.
My bootable usb memory stick AND bootable DVD do not work correctly anymore.
I DID have a working bootable usb AND bootable CD yesterday.

As neither of them work (when they both worked yesterday) I can only assume it is something to do with my PC.

I removed the BIOS battery as well as 'shorted' out the 'clear cmos' pins after removing the power cord.
Set up BIOS (date, time, boot priorities etc)

Neither the bootable usb or DVD will work anymore.

Everything looks fine during the (fossapup) boot process however after the last information is displayed on screen (including 'setting up services') there is just a black screen with a non flashing cursor top left of screen.
As mentioned above I cannot even try what you have listed I have to get into fossapup and at present I can't. The bootable device is selected and the boot process starts (loading pup_fossapup64.... to ram etc). I get a menu to choose how to start and I choose the 'default' (top line) of Fossapup. It proceeds but then just hangs.

Note after waiting a long time if I press the on/off button on the PC something is displayed on screen so briefly that I have no chance reading it but it is using the same font size as data displayed earlier and so I assume it is fossapup displaying it.

Yes I do know how to identify storage devices plugged in. I have been building PCs and configuring them for over 20 years.

NO I am not familiar with Gparted as I can't even get fossapup running to have a look. FRUSTRATION.

Regardless of the fact that two different devices allowed booting I checked and founds that 'legacy usb' is ENABLED.

The PC still works fine with Windows so I am assuming that something in BIOS needs changing to allow fossapup to finish booting and open to a pinboard.

Any ideas what the problem could be and what changes in the BIOS settings could fix it?

Added later
I tried booting in Safe Mode and that works
I tried booting to RAM only - that does has the same problem described above
I tried booting wit Force xorgwizard and checked video driver settings etc although not sure what I expected to see - still no good

I do notice that after pressing the PC on/off button when certain information is displayed too quickly to read I thought (repeat thought) I saw '...not found...' then it displays
Fossapup is now shutting down then
prompts me to save or not save.

thought (repeat thought) I saw '...not found...' then it displays
Fossapup is now shutting down then
prompts me to save or not save.

to clarify, you thought you might have seen "not found"

but on the other hand, "Fossapup is now shutting down" and the the prompts to save or not save. is clearly observed with a reasonable timing? It would seem to going directly into the shutdown you would normally see?

Does your cd/dvd work in the other desktop? Presuming it does, you could create another, perhaps different, install to a usb? Alternately, you might look in the bios setup of the troublesome machine for a return to default settings option. What kind of machine is it?

And the windows that works, what version? (and fast boot is turned off from inside in windows, if applicable?)

Thanks for your suggestions.

Firstly the boot usb stick does work ok in my main 'working' PC.

The PC I am testing on (and which both the bootable usb stick and bootable DVD worked yesterday but not today) has a Gigabyte H87M-HD3 m/b with latest BIOS version, an i& 4770 CPU and 8GB RAM. I have set the BIOS to use Optimised defaults (no other options available).

I went to the trouble of using my video camera to record a 'session' booting from the usb and then captures each different screen during bootup to where the screen just goes blank and then after I press the on/off switch and there are NO ERRORS listed. I would include images of each of those screens but I cannot work out how to upload an image from my PC. The 'insert image' prompts for a url.
Also I had all this typed up then decided to save as a draft so that I could test if the usb stick worked in this PC (and it does) and went to this thread I could not find that draft anywhere. Maybe need to 'drill down' to it in a place a little obscure.

I edited my last post and asked a question about the windows install that works and the possibility of fast boot issue. Sorry I did this as you were posting. Fossa seems to be shutting down as directed by your power off switch action? does your dvd have multisession saves enabled?

williwaw wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:19 am

And the windows that works, what version? (and fast boot is turned off from inside in windows, if applicable?)

Sorry forgot to answer that question.

The PC has Windows 7 installed. I do not know of 'fast boot' from inside windows only fastboot as a BIOS option and that is disabled.

Yes fossapup shuts down as a result of me pressing the power button on the PC. Is there another way to make fossapup do something other than what appears to be hanging ie not displaying the workbench/pin board screen? I have tried pressing every key on the keyboard with no success.

Often when I close down I do a 'save session' (I have not done that since this problem occurred). What data is contained in the file saved (to my usb bootdrive)? Could it be used to try and start a new session or is it used within fossapup with fossapup running?

The PC has Windows 7 installed. I do not know of 'fast boot' from inside windows only fastboot as a BIOS option and that is disabled.

Fastboot is more recent, not a concern. something is corrupted. if you had the ability to save and were using the usb and dvd on two different devices, perhaps just making a fresh dvd from a fresh iso, and seeing if it will boot on the both machines will narrow the problem down to the machine or the media. the dvd does not have to have a save capability, and for this purpose it would be better if it didn't. always handy to have a uncorruptable repair disk on hand

Thanks again for all you have done to try and help.

I feel there must be something wrong with that PC as now I have updated ALL motherboard drivers and yet I still can't get fossapup to finish booting.
I have noticed for some time that when a usb stick is inserted into any usb socket the system takes a long time to recognise it and display it as available in Windows so maybe the PC is slowly dying.

Strange that it all worked correctly yesterday.

I MIGHT create another bootable usb stick but I feel that it is futile as my bootable DVD also does not work and if it is a problem with a corrupt file or device it should happen with both the usb stick and DVD AND they both work correctly on my main (non testing) PC.

Thanks again.

jarnie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:21 am

I went to the trouble of using my video camera to record a 'session' booting from the usb and then captures each different screen during bootup to where the screen just goes blank and then after I press the on/off switch and there are NO ERRORS listed. I would include images of each of those screens but I cannot work out how to upload an image from my PC. The 'insert image' prompts for a url.

If you scroll down when editing your post to this forum you should see two tabs: Options, and Attachments. Click on the Attachments tab. You should see the button Add files. An alternative that works with newer browsers (but not some old ones) is that you can simply drag and drop images from your filemanager straight onto the window you are typing your post text too. But for simplicity, I'd use the Attachments => Add files button to upload images (such as png or jpg files) till you are sure what you are doing.

Regarding your BIOS settings, make sure you haven't changed the 'Boot order' such that hard drive is at the top. You want CDROM and usb as the top two such that hard disk will be booted from only if no bootable CD or usb stick is found first.

Everything looks fine during the (fossapup) boot process however after the last information is displayed on screen (including 'setting up services') there is just a black screen with a non flashing cursor top left of screen.

See if it will let you type xwin and press enter when it gets to this non flashing cursor.
It probably will not, but do not know until you try.

Usually this indicates graphics problem or x server problem.
But with it working OK in the past, would seem to be something else.

Could be something messed up with the pupsave.
When you see the boot menu.
Select this entry:
"fossapup64 9.5 - RAM only"
That boots not using the save.

Getting rid of save/persistence files/folders is indeed always a good idea when trying to get a new install to boot. The amount of times I've spent bug-fixing something I didn't need to simply because I forgot I had previously created something in a change folder I forgot was there...

SUCCESS!!!!!
Well being an ex programmer and been through lots of PC builds and occasional problems I had a think about this and wondered could it be something to do with the VIDEO output as during the later stages of the boot some of the messages appeared in a WHITE area of the black screen which had NOT happened when everything was working correctly,
I unplugged the monitor from the nVidia GeForce GTX1050 video card and plugged it into the video socket of the motherboard (using the onboard graphics of the motherboard) and now it WORKS!

Any ideas why using the nVidia PCIe video card would case Fossapup not to finish booting (well ending with a blank screen)?
What should I try next to enable working with the PCIe video card?

Remember that my bootable usb stick had been working ok with the nVidia graphics card for quite a few days and then all of a sudden it wouldn't

To me this is most strange but you tech 'gurus' probably have an answer.

Now back to the original reason for this thread - how to create a bootable SD card.
I will now follow closely the great instructions given BUT

Firstly do I need to create 2 partitions on that SD card? Can Linux and Windows share the same partition?
From what I have read Linux uses ext2/ext3 format and Windows uses NTFS so I am guessing NO.

Thanks.

Well done... this was a thought i had but it was hard to follow the variables, which machine was which etc...
I'd think it's likely you have a setting in bios to select the default video card, which returned to the embedded when it was reset.

So, the simplest middle man will be vfat (fat32). The boot partition should be fat32. You could use one fat32 partition but it is limiting and not recommended to have your pupsave on fat32. So this is why I suggested to use half vfat and half ext4. You can then have a few gigs for shared data (plus bootloaders) on vfat and a few for puppy on it's native format.

From here i would suggest using bigpup's instructions (as he is much better at laying it all out!!) except.... make a 4gig fat32 instead of a 300MB one. Then be sure to install the bootloaders for both legacy and uefi so you can test on either machine.

Glad you got it running!!

puddlemoon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:40 am

I'd think it's likely you have a setting in bios to select the default video card, which returned to the embedded when it was reset.

Thanks
The BIOS was set to use PCIe and I had not manually changed it for years.
The options are for Init Display First are -
IGFX Sets the onboard graphics as the first display.
PCIe Slot Sets the graphics card on the PCIEX16 slot as the first display.(Default)
PCI Sets the graphics card on the PCI slot as the first display.
When I connected the monitor to the graphics socket on the motherboard I did not get a display on the monitor so I set it to IGFX and now it does.

Could there be another BIOS setting I have missed?

I prefer to use the GTX1050 as it is much faster than the onboard graphics.

And I am still wondering why something changed the display without any intervention by myself. Gremlins?

I also thank you for clearing up whether or not linux and windows can or should share a storage device (partition).

@jarnie :-

I have Intel graphics built-in to the Pentium Gold's die on this new machine. However, I use a GeForce GT710, sometimes with the in-kernel 'nouveau' driver, and where I can, using the nVidia 'official' driver (where it'll condescend to compile, that is!)

First time I ever booted into Fossapup, the amount of 'lag' between moving the mouse, and the cursor deigning to respond, was horrendous; Fossapup was all but unusable. Phil advised using the pre-compiled 'official' driver he'd already built for Fossapup, and as if by magic, the lag disappeared. I didn't want to have to get into a situation where I'd got to use the onboard graphics for Fossapup, then switching back to the nVidia card for the rest of the 'kennels'. 'Twould have gotten old, REALLY fast...

Using the GT710 is no real advantage over the onboard UHD 610 graphics - specs are all but identical - apart from one very important reason; the onboard graphics 'borrows' from system RAM for its VRAM.....whereas the GT710 uses its own GDDR5 RAM. Leaves me more for my own use; 2 GB VRAM may not sound like a lot to some, but I do nothing demanding with it - apart from an odd few minutes messing about with an 'oldie', Xonotic, every once in a blue moon - so, by & large, it's ample for my needs.

(I got rather into Quake for a brief spell in the late 90s, courtesy of a mate's PS1; that, and him constantly banging-on about how great it was. Xonotic uses a modified variant of the Quake 'engine', so I'm reasonably familiar with it.....and it's totally free to download & run, and best of all, it runs flawlessly in Puppy (both 32- AND 64-bit). It is rather fun.....and this from one who considers himself a 'non-gamer'..!

https://xonotic.org/

It's an all-in-one, single-directory download. It's quite sizeable, at around a GB in total, but this includes binaries and gameplay data for all platforms in one place. So you could quite easily 'share' this between a dual-boot running Windows AND Puppy, for instance....)

Mike.

Any ideas why using the nVidia PCIe video card would case Fossapup not to finish booting (well ending with a blank screen)?

If you had moved the usb between two machines, and had to run Xorgwizard when first booting on the second machine, that would not be unusual.

Bigpup posted

See if it will let you type xwin and press enter when it gets to this non flashing cursor.
It probably will not, but do not know until you try.

I had the same thought also, but the non flashing cursor in the corner is not typical of booting without X.

Try a different driver if you have further problems by running Xorg video wizard. perhaps found under menu > setup? (I am not running fossa so it may be in a slightly different location.)

When you see the boot menu.
Select this entry:
"fossapup64 9.5 - RAM only"
That boots not using the save.

Did you ever try this with the Nvidia card hooked up to monitor?
This eliminates something in the save causing the problem.

If it did work in the beginning of booting the newly made Fossapup USB.
Fossapup uses the nouveau driver for running Nvidia hardware.
You would think, any issues with it, would show the first time you booted Fossapup.
A actual Nvidia manufactures driver, has to be downloaded and installed, to use it.

Maybe something has gone bad with the Nvidia hardware.
I would open up the computer.
Remove the Nvidia card.
Check all connections for dust bunnies, corrosion, bent pins, etc....
Reinsert the card, making sure it firmly goes into the connection slot and locks down correctly.
Wiggle it side to side a little, to make sure all pins engage.

Look at the motherboard for any obvious damage.
Especially look for bulging or leaking capacitors.

Simply unplugging and re-plugging everything, can get a lot of corrosion issues and loose connections fixed.

All cooling fans clean and actually run?
Check by starting computer with cover off, so you can see all fans working.

Do any booting from a cold powered off computer. Do not reboot.
Fresh power on and boot.
This should make sure nothing is stored in memory causing issues.

Got any kids or grandchildren?
You would be surprised the stuff kids stuff inside a computer, through the cooling fan opening