Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

hi all

i hope this doesn't offend anyone

this thread is started as a place for suggestions for forum organization

since things change
im sure there will always be room for improvement

this way the moderators can have a convenient place to read
suggestions from forum users about forum structure
and users can have a convenient way of voicing their ideas

i know the moderators are aware of some of these suggestions already

and once again i wish to thank the host of this forum
for providing an essential service to the puppy community

cool new forum dude

wanderer

Hello wanderer:

The forum offers great benefits from the broad (collective) knowledge here.
The difficulty (for those with questions) is sifting thru the many threads (and postings) to find the relevant answer to a question.
Even when the correct thread is found it can take some time to digest the information contained therein.

The forum would benefit from one (or two) well-informed Puppy-types who would consolidate information and put it in the 'how-to' pages.

All the best from Australia!

Leslie - "собако"

my first suggestion is that

there be a puppy linux section
like the one for dog house easyos etc
that includes 3 sections

1. official puppies (that includes the distros listed on distrowatch and the home page )
2. puppy derivatives (from the advanced section)
3. puppy projects (from the advanced section)

it should be on top since puppy is where everything started

that way newbees can find the official puppies easily
and the derivatives and projects can follow

wanderer

Hi wanderer and like-minded forum readers,
responding to your suggestion to welpe's concern (previous link) that forum organization might descend into the chaos sometimes featured on the Murga forum.

Although I will happily support the contention that "Chaos is a form of order", my biggest pet peeve regarding the Murga forum was its comparatively poor in-built "Search" feature. In my signature there I provided links to other, more comprehensive search engines to help reveal the underlying order in the chaos.

My second peeve was that freshly published Puplets could be placed in "Puppy Projects", "Puppy Derivatives", or even "Announcements" - with little real structure imposed to help spot the new releases. What helped me there was the "new posts since last visit" button - which was my favourite feature and seems to be absent in this forum reincarnation.

And I am also concerned, like welpe, that "Cutting Edge" will be rapidly populated with threads that are only loosely or secondarily linked with the stated aims of the section (i.e., "Under development: PCMCIA, wireless, etc."). Not the place for Distro/iso publications or announcements, I would have thought. Indeed, my feeling that "Cutting Edge" is a redundant topic just itching for chaos - arguably anything submitted on the Puppy forums (iso's, pets, sfs' etc) is cutting edge to begin with. Indeed, the stated focus of the Topic strongly suggests that it would be better placed as a sub-topic under "Hardware: What works, and doesn't, for you. Be specific, and please include Puppy version." My suggestion is chiefly borne by the fact that *nobody* (?!) is actually working on PCMCIA anymore - even the PLOP bootloader of Elmar Hanlhofer's was reportedly hit and miss (never worked for me) for the vintage laptops with that hardware standard. Even Barry Kauler put PCMCIA in the "too hard" basket. Thus, if anyone was to actually provide a workaround recipe to the problem of booting via a PCMCIA- CF-card or USB2.0 (where the original laptop might have only native USB1.0 ports, for example), then that could happily fit under "Hardware - what works for you", no?

So, in closing, my glance over the new forum organization suggests that it would benefit from:
1) Well-advertised "search" engines, in-built or outside links;
2) A "new posts since last visit" link - a crowd favourite on the Murga forum;
and,
3) A well-defined (EDIT: and policed!) manifesto of how submitted thread topics should be positioned (in a well-meant effort to herd entusiastic cats)

EDIT EDIT: Just spotted (doh!) the bemoaned features in points 1 and 2 under the "Quick Links" hamburger button: Quick Links>New Posts; and Quick Links>Search features. Just the cat-herding attributes to work out, I guess

I think Puppy woof-CE crew call BionicPup 32 and 64 official pup darry, so not what they consider a 'derivative'.
I would think PeeBee/666philB would be posting official info re: BionicPup 32/64 in Puppy Projects or whatever subforum they choose to make/use. Actually I think Puppy needs its own category, and re-organised, rather than being shoved in alongside Advanced Topics such as 'Hardware' - all distros work or don't work on Hardware, though I guess Hardware could be a subforum of Puppy as one example.

EDIT: I now see 666philB has put BionicPup64 under Puppy Projects subforum.

welpe wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:11 pm what is cutting edge?
why an usual ISO in cutting edge?
ok, it is a derivative from...
...slitaz, but
are not all Puppy's derivative from an other distro?
the chaos from old forum continues?

Yes, it is a bit illogical. Shame TazPup puts itself in a subforum of Projects (one further level down for special purposes such as initrd development experiments I'd say). better moved up under Projects main level, but not a major issue one way or the other (it was put into Cutting Edge on old forum and probably because Projects area was so cluttered up there). Projects area much less likely to become cluttered up now since the likes of DebianDogs have their own Category now (actually I'd like to see an 'Other Distros' thread for distros that take feedback on this forum, but which are not Puppy Derivatives really and not large enough to warrant a whole category yet - that would also help avoid potential Projects area clutter). By the way, wanderer, which thread are you referring to as the forum organisation thread?

EDIT: I see now, that mistfire has moved TazPup out of Cutting Edge into Puppy Projects.

wanderer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:01 pm my first suggestion is that

there be a puppy linux section
like the one for dog house easyos etc
that includes 3 sections

1. official puppies (that includes the distros listed on distrowatch and the home page )
2. puppy derivatives (from the advanced section)
3. puppy projects (from the advanced section)

it should be on top since puppy is where everything started

that way newbees can find the official puppies easily
and the derivatives and projects can follow

I feel the same.

"Advanced Topics" category does not mean "Puppy Linux" category so there is certainly an error in structure. There should be a "Puppy Linux" category just as there is a "Dog House" category.

"Advanced Topics" subforums are relevant to all distros. For example, all distros, work or don't work on particular "Hardware".

How Puppy Linux category goes about its internal category organisation (in terms of subforums) is up to them but within the criteria that it is not good to have too many top page items or the first page of the forum becomes swamped so some care in that organisation would be a good thing.

On WeeDogLinux forum, there are many flavours/distros and User-contributed plugins becoming available for download. Distro releases can always there be found under simple subforum "Releases" (there being one such subforum for each distro flavour): https://weedoglinux.rockedge.org

By the way, you will find a similar convention used by TinyCoreLinux, wanderer, though they also have an additional "Release Candidates" section on their main website downloads page. TinyCoreLinux also addresses the same problem on its forum by implementing "Final Releases" and "Release Candidates" and "Alpha Releases" as "child boards (i.e. subforums)" as the mechanism to avoid swamping first page categories.

Personally, I would not use more than one child subforum layer - i.e. best to avoid too many categories, but also need to limit the number of layers in the hierarchy to one child layer if possible.

hi all

if this is the new forum organization suggestions section

i would like to suggest a section
for all directly puppy related stuff
like the one for dog house
but on top since puppy is where it all started

and thanks for this forum

as long as we have it
im sure everything will work itself out

wanderer

New structure is a lot clearer. Puppy has Mainline category and Advanced Topics also all relate to Puppy, so no confusion there now.

TazPup and Corepup are not Puppy derivatives, but they are projects related to Puppy (I am not so sure about CorePup, since it seems pretty much pure TinyCoreLinux and even uses pure tinycorelinux boot scripts, but I'm not myself concerned if everyone else fine with it being in that Puppy Project category - perhaps I don't understand it or it might develop into something more-Puppy-related later...?...) so Puppy Projects suitable if their project leaders finds it appropriate. I don't know what Fossapup is; if not a Puppy Derivative then I suppose Puppy Projects fits it too.

The Other distros (such as Dog House) are not mainline Pups or Puppy Derivatives so that is not confusing either. I also felt that Dog House should really remain with own Category (as it still has) because there are so many different 'DebianDogs' (meaning not just Debian, but Ubuntu and more). As fredx181 said, he can always create new subforums in that space anyway.

I have no issue with the new arrangement.

EDIT: One issue... More of a question really: HOUSE TRAINING category. Is that for Puppy Only or is it for general Beginners'/Users' Help and HowTos (e.g. For Dog HowTo's and User Help too)? Or should they create their own HowTo, User_Help subforums within their forum space?

wiak

New structure is a lot clearer.

Yes!

Rockedge seems to be very busy, almost not sleeping and doing a job very well!

Thanks for this!

I think it is important to separate complete operating systems - ready to boot - from experimental stuff. Newbies will be looking for easy-to-try stuff first.

The current homepage is improving but still seems cluttered.

I have drawn up a mockup of a sample homepage (with only a few clearly labelled categories) in this post:
viewtopic.php?p=592#p592

Keen to hear what others think about making the homepage a clear and simple place for newbies to visit.

wiak wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:02 am

EDIT: One issue... More of a question really: HOUSE TRAINING category. Is that for Puppy Only or is it for general Beginners'/Users' Help and HowTos (e.g. For Dog HowTo's and User Help too)? Or should they create their own HowTo, User_Help subforums within their forum space?

wiak

No one ever responded to Wiaks edit above, but isn't some of the current discussions about forum organization as simple as picking up where this topic left off in July 2020?

for example, some segregation could be provided with a homepage reorganization similar to...

Puppy Linux

• Announcements

• Getting Started and System Requirements

• Internationalization

• Mainline Puppy Linux Distros

• Beginners Help

• Users

• Bug Reports

• Instructional HOW-TO Section

• Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff)

• Puppy Derivatives

• Puppy Projects

• German

• French

• Spanish

• Chinese

• Off-Topic Area

Other Projects

• Dog House

• EasyOS

• FatDog

• WeeDog

• Dog Incubator

• Programming

Concerned mods could write a few stickies and headings to help delineate what is appropriate for the Puppy Linux section if misposting becomes a problem.

The consensus of what properly constitutes a puppy could then be a work in progress as input from topics like https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=6810
provide guidance.

greengeek wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 9:03 pm

Keen to hear what others think about making the homepage a clear and simple place for newbies to visit.

agreed

Hmmm... looking at the above:

Does 'Other Projects' mean 'Smaller Projects' or does it mean 'Bigger Projects'?

Is the forum divided along the lines of Significant and Insignificant works?

What is this forum? Seems to be a lot of provision for discussion if you are a Puppy Linux fan, but...

No explanation required.

That which is promoted as important and that which is promoted as not so much.

I understand.

Yes, 2020 was a long time ago in terms of what really has been going on here. And a difficult time for rockedge to organise matters as he would have liked - given the 'keys' to Puppy Linux (after some resistance - a great deal of delicate diplomacy involved - I remember - had to let go of personal views until a better time - rockedge has always known my view).

wiak wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 7:34 am

backi, it is time you joined woof-CE - that is the place to be if you really want more friends 'down here' on this somewhat more generic discussion forum. It is moving, it seems, to become less-generic - according to some discourse anyway.

Have I anything still left to peddle or promote here. Yes! pupit.sh is now my main contribution to this Puppy Linux forum - get it now - it needs some major revision I warn you. I could move it to mainstream sections somewhere - it is in off-topic Others desert at the moment - EDIT: No! I even got that wrong - it is in archived WeeDog line somewhere.

I heard rumours about myself leaving this discussion forum I've been in since I don't know when. Not true, I am a member here - no need to leave I think. I'm just studying the content to see if I also have any thing technical left that I am interested to say here. It is slowly being made clear to me that this forum is primarily for discussion about Puppy Linux distro, which I have nothing really to say about. But I'm still a member anyway - just speaking a lot suddenly because it is confusing to discover my voice doesn't fit here well.

Even more than in 2020 I'm fine with that though. Okay to just be a member and change my old habits. Obviously I'm not myself terrifically excited by the bulk of the forum sections, but I can always find other entertainment and pursuits, but still a registered member anyway - maybe indulge more in Very-Off-Topic flying saucer extravaganzas to keep my mind active when I ever log in. I'm certainly relieved to escape the artificial imagined castle that tries to signify wee Puppy as some kind of Kennel King. Not my view, sorry. At my age I should either be chasing women whilst I still can (but I have a lovely wife so don't have any impulse in that direction despite being Scottish) or gardening or whatever - not sure, old habits are difficult to kill off. And at least I continue to keep the registered membership numbers up... despite feeling that forum is falling flat and in urgent need of fresh new air rather than aiming to to become a club for a few old gents worshipping the white hair growing on Puppy's old snout (I still feel young too - I'm but a pup in my mirror view - but what is young?).

williwaw wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:05 am

No one ever responded to Wiaks edit above, but isn't some of the current discussions about forum organization as simple as picking up where this topic left off in July 2020?

for example, some segregation could be provided with a homepage reorganization similar to...

etc etc ...

I am confused now though since it is as if you are making a new forum organisation suggestion? But the above is the long-adopted organisation since 2020 pretty much, or didn't you realise that most of the sections above these 'Other Projects' (excluding Off-Topic area) are already designated by moderators for Puppy Only - the greedy old brat (little Puppy I mean of course)!

Does 'Other Projects' mean 'Smaller Projects' or does it mean 'Bigger Projects'?

neither

the post is an example of a possible reorganization of the home page that might help.
choosing the words can come later

I am confused now ..... most of the sections above these 'Other Projects'... are already designated... Puppy Only.

just a suggestion to improve the delineation.

williwaw wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:21 am

Does 'Other Projects' mean 'Smaller Projects' or does it mean 'Bigger Projects'?

neither

the post is an example of a possible reorganization of the home page that might help.
choosing the words can come later

Again, I remain confused - the suggested organisation looks near on identical to the current to me. What is significantly different that would justify the hard work always required to make any changes?

WeeDog already frozen as either archive or dropped by the way, I said so; so more space for Puppy Linux discussion guys.

Other Projects as a name is old... it was pretty much what old Murga forum used, and what was celebrated a little when changed on this newer forum. Why? Because anything 'Other' than Puppy ends up being shoved in that little area, like the garbage pit that doesn't really have a place, and maybe doesn't. All sorts of 'Other Projects' under the sun end up appearing in there such that the Other distros become shadows from their already grey area situation - VNC project to keep an eye on mum, and so on and so forth - that was how it was like in fact on old forum.