Does anyone have a work-around for the right-click file handling behavior in Rox? [unresolved]

[Governor]

For example: When I right-click on a file and choose delete, the wrong file is often deleted.

I have lost many files... too many to count. Most were deleted entirely, and some were renamed to the wrong filename.
When a user right-clicks on a file and chooses an action, a file other than the one clicked on should never be affected.

Here I right-click on temp.txt and choose delete.

Right click on file and delete, wrong file is deleted-2.jpg (7.21 KiB) Viewed 1025 times

However, this is the file in the dialog box

Right click on file and delete, wrong file is deleted.jpg (37.7 KiB) Viewed 1025 times

I have previously pointed out a similar issue with the highlighting feature.
https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 46#p141346

Once again, this appears to be a GTK issue with file highlighting.
Does anyone have a fix?

[fredx181]

For example: When I right-click on a file and choose delete, the wrong file is often deleted.

I have lost many files... too many to count. Most were deleted entirely, and some were renamed to the wrong filename.
When a user right-clicks on a file and chooses an action, a file other than the one clicked on should never be affected.

Here I right-click on temp.txt and choose delete.
Right click on file and delete, wrong file is deleted-2.jpg

However, this is the file in the dialog box
Right click on file and delete, wrong file is deleted.jpg

I have previously pointed out a similar issue with the highlighting feature.
https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 46#p141346

Once again, this appears to be a GTK issue with file highlighting.
Does anyone have a fix?

Works OK for me. So, no idea why you got that problem. Perhaps something wrong with your mouse or touchpad ?

[MochiMoppel]

Works OK for me. So, no idea why you got that problem. Perhaps something wrong with your mouse or touchpad ?

I have an idea what his problem is, but as so often Governor tells us only half of the story. His first screenshot is meaningless unless he posts the full path of the temp.txt file. I *assume* that it's in the same directory as the .mp4 file of the second screenshot and I further *assume* that the .mp4 file was already selected (highlighted) when he tried to delete temp.txt. Whenever one or more items are already selected, right-clicking another file - or even right-clicking on an empty area - will cause actions on the previously selected files, not the right-clicked file.

[Trapster]

This happens to me on my old puppy-4.10 server.
If a file is selected and then I right click on a different file, the original file is still the active one.
I have learned to click into an empty space in rox before right clicking another file.

I do not have this issue on newer pups.

[Governor]

Works OK for me. So, no idea why you got that problem. Perhaps something wrong with your mouse or touchpad ?

I have an idea what his problem is, but as so often Governor tells us only half of the story. His first screenshot is meaningless unless he posts the full path of the temp.txt file. I *assume* that it's in the same directory as the .mp4 file of the second screenshot and I further *assume* that the .mp4 file was already selected (highlighted) when he tried to delete temp.txt. Whenever one or more items are already selected, right-clicking another file - or even right-clicking on an empty area - will cause actions on the previously selected files, not the right-clicked file.

Yes both files are in the same directory. The bottom line is: If I right-click on a file, that is the file I am working on, not some other file. Right-click does not function correctly.

[Governor]

This happens to me on my old puppy-4.10 server.
If a file is selected and then I right click on a different file, the original file is still the active one.
I have learned to click into an empty space in rox before right clicking another file.

I do not have this issue on newer pups.

What you describe is a workaround which requires an extra step to correct a defect in the GUI. Why do I need to figure out extra steps just to work normally? There are many of these defects which require extra steps. I just want someone to fix them, since unfortunately I cannot.

[fredx181]

@Governor
I could now reproduce what you got by going in the options and deactivated single-click activation, perhaps you did that too?.
Selecting a file and then right-click another file indeed will be for the previous (already) selected. (if I understood well, @mochimoppel said already).
Probably that's the specific behavior of rox file-manager (or can it be changed? dunno), some may like it that way , some not, perhaps better for you to use another file-manager then ?
EDIT: Up to you or anyone to call this a "bug" or "defect" (as you seem to like searching for), in the end it's just a matter of preference IMO.
(btw, about me personally, I gave up using rox a long time ago, I don't like it very much for several reasons)

edit: and IMO it would be good for Puppy to make it very clear (and easy) how to change the default file-manager (rox) into some other, e.g. PcManFm or ... (but that may have it's downsides too compared to rox).

[williwaw]

@Governor
I could now reproduce what you got by going in the options and deactivated single-click activation (perhaps you did that too?).

I tried changing the default rox config as you did, but I have to left click to select with a standard three button mouse. Perhaps Gov has an unusual mouse or has remapped the buttons?
TBH, in all these years I have never had a reason to deactivate single click. Maybe that feature is there for folks that want their linux to act like windows?

[fredx181]

@Governor
I could now reproduce what you got by going in the options and deactivated single-click activation (perhaps you did that too?).

I tried changing the default rox config as you did, but I have to left click to select with a standard three button mouse.

Well, yes, left-click a file first (will not be activated, just selected), then right-click on another file.

edit:

TBH, in all these years I have never had a reason to deactivate single click. Maybe that feature is there for folks that want their linux to act like windows?

I also use single-click, but I can imagine that many Linux users want double-click activation as it's more safe (avoiding accidents).

[wizard]

@williwaw
@fredx181

TBH, in all these years I have never had a reason to deactivate single click. Maybe that feature is there for folks that want their linux to act like windows?

I also use single-click, but I can imagine that many Linux users want double-click activation as it's more safe (avoiding accidents).

When setting up a computer for a MS Windows refugee, double click is better since it is a "muscle memory" issue. Eliminates one more hurdle to adoption thing.

wizard

[mikewalsh]

@williwaw
@fredx181

TBH, in all these years I have never had a reason to deactivate single click. Maybe that feature is there for folks that want their linux to act like windows?

I also use single-click, but I can imagine that many Linux users want double-click activation as it's more safe (avoiding accidents).

When setting up a computer for a MS Windows refugee, double click is better since it is a "muscle memory" issue. Eliminates one more hurdle to adoption thing.

wizard

Heh. Mm; I dunno so much.

Even when I first moved to Linux with Ubuntu back in 2014, it took me but a matter of hours to get used to the default single-click. I was so pleased to be away from that blasted double-click, "muscle memory" or not.....'cos it always gave me "issues" under Windoze!

Perhaps I'm weird! I, too, like Trapster, have got used to clicking in an empty space.....but you'd never tempt me away from ROX, bugs or no. Personally, I have absolutely zero interest in seeing ROX-filer "fixed". In my opinion, it's not broken to start with, and IMHO the OP simply isn't making any attempt to get used to ROX. He keeps moaning & complaining about it, but doesn't appear to want to replace it with one of the more traditional FMs that are readily available. Instead, we're expected to "fix it"?

What you describe is a workaround which requires an extra step to correct a defect in the GUI.

Oh, for Chrissakes. Why do you keep labouring the point that WE should "fix it"? WE never "built it" in the first place... You're telling me that one, single, extra click is a step too far for you? Anybody else would take the advice on board and accordingly act on it in future. But not YOU. Oh, no. That would be too simple, wouldn't it? You try to make out you're the single "voice of reason" for the great unwashed public out there. Yes, altruism DOES exist, but.....that's NOT you, my friend. Leave it out!

We do a LOT to help folks get a decent computing experience with Puppy. And yes, sometimes it DOES involve "workarounds..." That's the nature of the beast, y'know? Windoze, Crapple, Linux. BSD, whatever.....none of 'em are perfect. And fixating on some minor point & constantly running on and ON about it ain't going to magically "fix" ANYTHING.

There's a limit to the amount of hand-holding we CAN provide (and we do provide a lot already - and willingly so. You KNOW it). Linux newbies have to learn to stand on their own two feet at some point, AND to learn to live with the inevitable long-extant "imperfections", which will never BE "fixed".

(*sheesh...*)

Just my take on the matter. Sorry an' all that, but.....if you're NOT a troll, you sure as hell do a darned good impression of one. And now I'll probably get the inevitable "clip round the lughole" for speaking my mind. I give up. Some people can't BE helped.

"Don't feed the trolls", guys'n'gals.

Mike.

[MochiMoppel]

@Governor
I could now reproduce what you got by going in the options and deactivated single-click activation

Why couldn't you reproduce with 'single-click' activated? Makes no difference.

Probably that's the specific behavior of rox file-manager

It's not. Same in Xfe. Double Commander works closer to what Governor expects but has other issues.

In any case it's not an "error" or "bug". May become a bit clearer when, instead of using a right mouse click, using the Menu key on the keyboard.

But the part I really don't understand is this: "I have lost many files... too many to count"
ROX tells the user what it is going to delete in the menu, and then again in the confirmation dialog. If the user ignores both, who is to blame? And how often does a user have to make the same mistake over and over again before he tries to understand how the application works?

[geo_c]

It's not. Same in Xfe. Double Commander works closer to what Governor expects but has other issues.

In any case it's not an "error" or "bug". May become a bit clearer when, instead of using a right mouse click, using the Menu key on the keyboard.

But the part I really don't understand is this: "I have lost many files... too many to count"
ROX tells the user what it is going to delete in the menu, and then again in the confirmation dialog. If the user ignores both, who is to blame? And how often does a user have to make the same mistake over and over again before he tries to understand how the application works?

Yes, Xfe works the same as Rox, in other words, a file is selected, but a right click on another file does not un-select the previously selected file, it brings up an action menu that will operate on all selected files, which means the previously selected files and the file that was right-clicked. By design of course. This allows one to retain previous selections and not lose them simply because one right clicked on a new file.

For this reason confirmation dialogs were created, so we don't make careless mistakes or misunderstand what is about it be performed by the file manager. The dialogs must be read carefully everytime an action is taken.

Xfe preferences/options gives choices of which confirmation dialogs to run. I keep them ALL active. When learning a new application, we will make mistakes, or misunderstand the screen, but once we understand the workflow of a particular file manager, the responsibility is on ourselves. Rox is fast and powerful, but easier to screw up in my opinion. I still use it occassionally. It's installed in all my OS's.

I also only use single click folder open in Xfe, I keep executable running set to double click with a confirmation dialog asking me if I really want to run the executable. I feel this is the safe approach to using a MOUSE, as it's very easy to inadvertently click a mouse.

Truth is I mainly use ranger and mc command line file managers now, where all actions are performed very deliberately by design, mc with operation dialogs, ranger with specific key combinations and confirmation prompts.

Both will wait patiently for the user to carefully examine the dialog and make a choice, and they all have cancel buttons and keys!

Can't say the same of using terminal command line, which does what you tell it to do without clarification first.

[Burunduk]

Yes, Xfe works the same as Rox, in other words, a file is selected, but a right click on another file does not un-select the previously selected file, it brings up an action menu that will operate on all selected files, which means the previously selected files and the file that was right-clicked. By design of course. This allows one to retain previous selections and not lose them simply because one right clicked on a new file.

No, I've tested Xfe 1.44 and 2.0 - it works differently on my Fossapup. If a single file is selected, right-clicking another one changes the selection. A multiple selection doesn't change - a right click in any place works on it, no files are added. Could it depend on the fox toolkit version?

[williwaw]

Can't say the same of using terminal command line, which does what you tell it to do without clarification first.

many .bashrc files contain alias rm="rm -i", thus making rm interactive and requiring confirmation when used with an interactive shell.

[geo_c]

Yes, Xfe works the same as Rox, in other words, a file is selected, but a right click on another file does not un-select the previously selected file, it brings up an action menu that will operate on all selected files, which means the previously selected files and the file that was right-clicked. By design of course. This allows one to retain previous selections and not lose them simply because one right clicked on a new file.

No, I've tested Xfe 1.44 and 2.0 - it works differently on my Fossapup. If a single file is selected, right-clicking another one changes the selection. A multiple selection doesn't change - a right click in any place works on it, no files are added. Could it depend on the fox toolkit version?

Yeah, it must be something like the fox toolkit, because I tested it before I posted and copied two files, by selecting one, right clicking on another and choosing copy. It copied both with a confirmation dialog.

[geo_c]

Yes, Xfe works the same as Rox, in other words, a file is selected, but a right click on another file does not un-select the previously selected file, it brings up an action menu that will operate on all selected files, which means the previously selected files and the file that was right-clicked. By design of course. This allows one to retain previous selections and not lose them simply because one right clicked on a new file.

No, I've tested Xfe 1.44 and 2.0 - it works differently on my Fossapup. If a single file is selected, right-clicking another one changes the selection. A multiple selection doesn't change - a right click in any place works on it, no files are added. Could it depend on the fox toolkit version?

Yeah, it must be something like the fox toolkit, because I tested it before I posted and copied two files, by selecting one, right clicking on another and choosing copy. It copied both with a confirmation dialog.

Okay, strange.

I just tested in Xfe in KLV-spectrwm, and the behavior is exactly as you stated, right clicking selects only the right click file and cancels/resets any other selected files. My earlier test was in KLV-airedale and it did just the opposite.

The reason it's strange is because they should be running the same version of Xfe, being both updated not long ago from the Void repos.

So it must be some other factor in the graphic environment.

[bigpup]

To me it is more about learning how you have to do stuff in a specific program.

If you are not going to use single click navigation in ROX. (can UN-select in options)

Then you are using double click navigation operation.

A single left click selects and highlights the item.
A double left click activates the item.

Then make sure you are using the right click menu, on what is highlighted, by a single left click.

Do not try to right click on some other item, that is not the one that is right now highlighted.

First single click on it to highlight (select) and then right click, to get the right click menu, to select options for this specific highlighted item.

Rox is designed for single click operation and that is how it works best.

A single left click activates the item.

A single right click, brings up right click menu options, to select for the item.

It is a single left or right click on an item. And it is only on that specific item.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you do not like how a program is coded to work.
Then go find a different program to use.

If all programs worked the same way.
Why would you ever need a different program?
Why would you spend time developing and coding a different program.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Rox delete is just that, delete it is gone.
That is the way the program is designed to work.
It does not have delete to trash operation coded into it.

Other file managers, use delete to move something to trash location, and it is removed, but recoverable.

Because of Rox delete and it not having the trash function.

That is why there is Puppy trash in all Puppy versions.
Drag and drop to Puppy trash, if you want to remove something, but later be able to recover it.

Some Puppy versions have added the Puppy trash to the right click menu in Rox.
If it has it.
Selecting the trash option will remove the item to the Puppy trash.

[Governor]

@Governor
I could now reproduce what you got by going in the options and deactivated single-click activation (perhaps you did that too?).

I tried changing the default rox config as you did, but I have to left click to select with a standard three button mouse. Perhaps Gov has an unusual mouse or has remapped the buttons?
TBH, in all these years I have never had a reason to deactivate single click. Maybe that feature is there for folks that want their linux to act like windows?

In Rox, I always have single-click navigation turned off, and I had it turned off in Windows as well.

I made a video of this issue, which incidentally reveals another issue.
1.The first issue is as I described, the wrong file is acted upon on right-click.
2.The second issue is, the dialog box blocks the users' view from what they are working on.
There is a 3rd issue, but that one is minor: the default highlighting is too dark and makes text difficult to read.
And, there is also a 4th issue: the default dialog box is not wide enough. It may have been fine in the old days, but with long file names it is inadequate. I made my dialog box wider, but it is still not wide enough. I will have to go through my notes and try to find how to make the dialog box wider.
https://digioh.com/em/3651/197572/ry5qug8j67

[fredx181]

@Governor
I could now reproduce what you got by going in the options and deactivated single-click activation (perhaps you did that too?).

I tried changing the default rox config as you did, but I have to left click to select with a standard three button mouse. Perhaps Gov has an unusual mouse or has remapped the buttons?
TBH, in all these years I have never had a reason to deactivate single click. Maybe that feature is there for folks that want their linux to act like windows?

In Rox, I always have single-click navigation turned off, and I had it turned off in Windows as well.

I made a video of this issue, which incidentally reveals another issue.
1.The first issue is as I described, the wrong file is acted upon on right-click.
....

Saw your video and can only think of that you had the file (that's actually handled by right-click) already selected before , what do you think ?
Btw, I agree, I don't like that behavior too, right-clicking a file should select it IMHO.
edit: but as said, clicking in the white space first before right-click is a workaround to prevent this from happening.

[geo_c]

And, there is also a 4th issue: the default dialog box is not wide enough. It may have been fine in the old days, but with long file names it is inadequate. I made my dialog box wider, but it is still not wide enough. I will have to go through my notes and try to find how to make the dialog box wider.
https://digioh.com/em/3651/197572/ry5qug8j67

viewtopic.php?p=63504#p63504

[Governor]

I tried changing the default rox config as you did, but I have to left click to select with a standard three button mouse. Perhaps Gov has an unusual mouse or has remapped the buttons?
TBH, in all these years I have never had a reason to deactivate single click. Maybe that feature is there for folks that want their linux to act like windows?

In Rox, I always have single-click navigation turned off, and I had it turned off in Windows as well.

I made a video of this issue, which incidentally reveals another issue.
1.The first issue is as I described, the wrong file is acted upon on right-click.
....

Saw your video and can only think of that you had the file (that's actually handled by right-click) already selected before , what do you think ?
Btw, I agree, I don't like that behavior too, right-clicking a file should select it IMHO.
edit: but as said, clicking in the white space first before right-click is a workaround to prevent this from happening.

Funny that you mention that. If the file had already been selected, then why was it not actionable in the dialog box??
I will post a new video that shows where the file appears to be selected, and where the file appears unselected, but the result is the same: a different filename is shown in the dialog box.

[fredx181]

In Rox, I always have single-click navigation turned off, and I had it turned off in Windows as well.

I made a video of this issue, which incidentally reveals another issue.
1.The first issue is as I described, the wrong file is acted upon on right-click.
....

Saw your video and can only think of that you had the file (that's actually handled by right-click) already selected before , what do you think ?
Btw, I agree, I don't like that behavior too, right-clicking a file should select it IMHO.
edit: but as said, clicking in the white space first before right-click is a workaround to prevent this from happening.

Funny that you mention that. If the file had already been selected, then why was it not actionable in the dialog box??
....

There may be a misunderstanding, see also pic, what I meant is that I have selected "notes.md", then right-click on 'flags" > rename, and the rename action is for the file "notes.md", should be for "flags".
edit: I think something like that happens for you, but not sure.

2025-03-13_15-34-18.gif (97.88 KiB) Viewed 388 times

[Governor]

Saw your video and can only think of that you had the file (that's actually handled by right-click) already selected before , what do you think ?
Btw, I agree, I don't like that behavior too, right-clicking a file should select it IMHO.
edit: but as said, clicking in the white space first before right-click is a workaround to prevent this from happening.

Funny that you mention that. If the file had already been selected, then why was it not actionable in the dialog box??
....

There may be a misunderstanding, see also pic, what I meant is that I have selected "notes.md", then right-click on 'flags" > rename, and the rename action is for the file "notes.md", should be for "flags".
edit: I think something like that happens for you, but not sure.
2025-03-13_15-34-18.gif

Yes, that seems to be the same thing happening here. The 'selected effect' you mentioned earlier did not return after I rebooted, which I find odd, but it is the same result (so I won't upload a new video). Apparently, one must left-click first in order to be certain the desired file is actually selected when right-clicking on it. @mikewalsh This is not a quirk, it is an actual error. When you right-click on a file and a different file appears in the dialog box, it is an error.

Why do GUI errors persist?

[fredx181]

Funny that you mention that. If the file had already been selected, then why was it not actionable in the dialog box??
....

There may be a misunderstanding, see also pic, what I meant is that I have selected "notes.md", then right-click on 'flags" > rename, and the rename action is for the file "notes.md", should be for "flags".
edit: I think something like that happens for you, but not sure.
2025-03-13_15-34-18.gif

...
Apparently, one must left-click first in order to be certain the desired file is actually selected when right-clicking on it.
...

No, if nothing else is selected, right-click on a file works properly.

This is not a quirk, it is an actual error

Quirk or error, I think you are better off trying another filemanager (there are more than a few) or try another Linux OS.
(or if you want to keep on criticizing, finding bugs etc..., that's okay also (if you are devoted to help Puppy becoming the best Linux ever )
Ok, ROX isn't perfect, but it has some really nice features that many of us like.

[geo_c]

--snip%^&( @mikewalsh This is not a quirk, it is an actual error. When you right-click on a file and a different file appears in the dialog box, it is an error.

Why do GUI errors persist?

Try going here: https://rox.sourceforge.net/desktop/FAQ.html

Describe to the developers the behavior you find problematic. Ask them if it's the intended behavior. And if not ask them your second question, "Why do GUI errors persist?"

From this point forward, your Rox file operation protocol:

1) Left click a file to insure it is the SELECTED file
2) Right click to perform an action on the SELECTED file, as opposed to the file the mouse pointer was hovering over when the right click was engaged.
3) Check the dialog box to insure the operation is calling the intended target file
4) cancel the operation if unsure and try again.

alternate-1 protocol:
1) Try another linux filemanager

alternate-2 protocol:
1) Run wine and download Windows Explorer

[bigpup]

Not working the way you want it to work is not an error, unless it just does not work.
It is the way the program is designed to work.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In double click navigation operation it is working the way it is suppose to work.

Again this is how Rox operates.

Why would you left click on an item to select it and then right click on some other item to bring up the right click menu?

Do you understand what selecting is?

Left click an item to select it.

Right click on that same item to get right click menu for that item that was selected!

That is how you are suppose to do it!

Right clicking any other place is still bringing up the menu options for the item that is selected.

You have to left click on a different item to now select it to affect. (double click navigation)

The selected item stays highlighted, so you know that is the selected item.

In single click navigation operation.

Whatever you click on left or right it is selected as the item to affect.

Note:
Tried using PcmanFM file manager.
It is double left click to open
Single left or right click an item select it to be the selected item.
Right click also gives option menu.

That is the way it works in PcmanFM file manager.
different program, different way it does things.

In it's single click navigation method.
Just putting the mouse pointer over an item selects it.
Then you can single left click on it to open.
Right click for option menu.

Rox single click navigation operation does exactly this, but selecting is done only by left/right single click.
Selecting is part of the clicking. Not a hover function like PCmanFM uses in single click navigation.

[bigpup]

Here is the fix for making the rename box wider:
viewtopic.php?t=6493

[Trapster]

Why would you left click on an item to select it and then right click on some other item to bring up the right click menu?

if I (right)click a .txt file and choose "Open As Text" , close it, then (right)click another .txt file and choose "Open As Text", it will open the orginal .txt file again.

[Governor]

There may be a misunderstanding, see also pic, what I meant is that I have selected "notes.md", then right-click on 'flags" > rename, and the rename action is for the file "notes.md", should be for "flags".
edit: I think something like that happens for you, but not sure.
2025-03-13_15-34-18.gif

...
Apparently, one must left-click first in order to be certain the desired file is actually selected when right-clicking on it.
...

No, if nothing else is selected, right-click on a file works properly.

This is not a quirk, it is an actual error

Quirk or error, I think you are better off trying another filemanager (there are more than a few) or try another Linux OS.
(or if you want to keep on criticizing, finding bugs etc..., that's okay also (if you are devoted to help Puppy becoming the best Linux ever )

Ok, ROX isn't perfect, but it has some really nice features that many of us like.

I have tried a around 10 Linux distros before using fossapup. And now I use primarily bookworm because it is an improvement over fossapup, IMO.
I like using Rox, but since is has no "Trash or undelete", I will have to find an alternative. A few have been suggested.

The right-click error is an actual error. Admitting errors is a good thing. It soothes the soul, and creates an opening for the error to be fixed. Denying errors and calling them quirks benefits no one - and then the errors will most likely never be fixed. A right-click on a file should not place a different filename in the dialog box than the file that was clicked on. In other words, a right-click on a file should automatically select that file.