Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

I've seen SAVESPEC used for Ventoy.

I don't fully understand what it is for but was wondering if it could be useful for just a common frugal installed puppy.
Or is it for special purposes like Ventoy.

How could I use it for just a normal frugal install to try it out and to help me understand it?

Thanks

https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=1371

Read the 1st and 2nd post in this topic.

Open a SAVESPEC file in a text editor.

You can see it is just specific information about the save file.

More information:

In Puppy Linux, the savespec file is associated with the system's save session configuration. This file contains settings related to how the system saves changes made during a session to the save file, which is typically located on the storage medium (like a USB drive or hard disk). The save file stores all user data and system changes so that they persist across reboots.

Purpose of the savespec File:
Configuration for save session behavior: It defines options like whether the system should save certain changes, how it should manage them, and the specifics of where and how the save file is created or updated.
Defines specifics of the save file: It can include the save file’s size, location, and whether it's compressed, encrypted, or uses other special options.
Typical Contents of savespec:
While the exact contents can vary depending on your specific Puppy Linux version and configuration, the savespec file generally contains the following kinds of settings:

Save file location: The path where the save file is stored.
Save file size: Information about the size of the save file and whether it's automatically expanded or compressed.
Session settings: It can include which changes are saved and which aren’t, determining what gets preserved between reboots.
Encryption/compression settings: If the save file is encrypted or compressed, those settings may be noted here.
Example (savespec File Structure):
The structure can vary, but a typical savespec file might look like this:

# Save File Configuration
savefile=/mnt/sda1/PuppySave.3fs
size=1024M
compression=zlib
encryption=false
autosave=true
In this example:

savefile specifies the path and name of the save file.
size indicates the size of the save file.
compression shows the type of compression used (it could be zlib, lzma, etc.).
encryption indicates whether the save file is encrypted or not.
autosave determines if changes are saved automatically.
Editing savespec:
You can edit the savespec file manually to adjust the save file settings, but it's generally easier to use the Puppy Linux setup tools to configure these options, such as the Puppy Universal Installer or Puppy Save Session tool.

If you're troubleshooting or want to customize how your save sessions work, this file is crucial for understanding the settings related to saving and restoring system states across reboots.

I see the information is referring only to a save file.
Is it for a save folder as well? It seems the linked article refers to a save folder.

It looks like the SAVESPEC is referring to the whereabouts of the save file(folder?)
Like its location and other stuff about a save file like its size

The linked article gives this:

A typical SAVESPEC file, defines a partition and a sub-directory e.g.:

Code: Select all

SS_ID='Work'
SS_DIR='/tsaves'

Would this be almost the same thing as psave settings in grub.cfg/or menu.lst?

Where is SAVESPEC placed?

It's not clear to me.

Thanks

JusGellin wrote: Sat Jan 04, 2025 3:41 am

I see the information is referring only to a save file.
Is it for a save folder as well? It seems the linked article refers to a save folder.

It looks like the SAVESPEC is referring to the whereabouts of the save file(folder?)

Would this be almost the same thing as psave settings in grub.cfg/or menu.lst?

Where is SAVESPEC placed?

It's not clear to me.

Thanks

usually gets placed with kernel/*.sfs files. Yes same as psave setting, depends on the puppy.iso

@JusGellin - I remember deleting this file when my puppy will not boot properly and solved my problem.

You can use this file though. Using your example:
SS_ID='Work'
SS_DIR=/tsaves

I think it means your savefile called 'Work' should be save under /tsaves. But to answer your question, it is the same thing as psubdir in grub.cfg/menu.lst. The only difference, with psubdir it will prompt you which savefile you want to use if you have two or more under the specified psubdir folder. With SAVESPEC, it is specific.

I stand corrected

It is a WoofCE Puppy LInux technology that serves 2 VERY GOOD purposes that is not fully appreciated or understood.

BUT, MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT IS SIMPLE!

During boots, if a WoofCE PUP sees it, it will be used to 'KNOW" where the distro is to find/save session usage. It replaces the need for boot parms to boot to direct session management.

As such, there is no need for use of psave/psubdir/pmedia parms for booting ... if a SAVESPEC file is present in the boot source path.

I, personally, find this as one of the most innovative approaches to booting PUPs ... EVER!!! Its simplicity by @gyrog is beautiful.

It would be nice if other non-WoofCE distros "might" honor it for directing the location of sessions needed for subsequent booting after pristine use.

Enjoy.

P.S. Hello @jp734: If anyone booting a WoofCE PUP and removal of a SAVESPEC allows it to boot, there is a bug that should/must be reported to the distro developer for resolution. SAVESPEC does not cause a PUP to not boot unless the developer has done something wrong. I have never had this occur, but I will pay more attention looking for cases where this might be occurring.

@Clarity
What parameters would you suggest using if I wanted to have the save folder on it's own partition?

Thanks

During making of the save folder.
Normally it is with the other SFS files of the Puppy install and that location is selected to place it.
.
If you choose to place it in a different location
A SAVESPEC file will be created to provide this different location information to the boot process.

The boot process default location for the save folder is with the other Puppy version's SFS files.
So it will always look there. If the save folder is with the other SFS files. Do not need the SAVESPEC file to tell it where to find the save file.
No SAVESPEC file will be made.

A save folder location is the only information a SAVESPEC file needs to provide for a save folder.

I guess I tend to make things a lot harder than they really are especially when learning something new like this.
I couldn't understand what use this was if you normally set up grub.cfg or menu.lst to direct the boot up for where the sfs files are.
Then, when I saw the value of putting the save folder on a different partition, it started making sense.
After seeing why to put the save folder somewhere else, I see what I've been told - you can use SAVESPEC to simply direct where the save folder is.
(When not in the default location)
Also I kept thinking before that SAVESPEC was somehow a substitute for what goes into the grub.cfg/menu.lst.
It was only after I tried to use it, that it made sense.

I could now understand the following:

bigpup wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 5:03 am

The boot process default location for the save folder is with the other Puppy version's SFS files.
So it will always look there. If the save folder is with the other SFS files. Do not need the SAVESPEC file to tell it where to find the save file.
No SAVESPEC file will be made.

A save folder location is the only information a SAVESPEC file needs to provide for a save folder.

I sure appreciate all the input when I ask about something that helps me finally understand.
Thanks all!

Oh ya, I've successfully done this.
Here's what I did:
1. Made a new partition called "SAV"
2. Put a folder there called "save"
3. Made a SAVESPEC file where my sfs's are:
4. Added the following to the SAVESPEC file:
SS_ID="SAV"
SS_DIR="save"

Does SAVESPEC work for KL's as well?

Thanks

Hello @JusGellin
NO. Not at this time. It 'may' show up with support in the future if its developers deem appropriate. So, currently, it is a WoofCE Puppy exclusive.

Hark! Look at what the KL developers have done for you.
The KL's developers have done, for you and members, a VERY GOOD solution. AS such, their solution, like SAVESPEC, works like a charm, as well. OOTB, the KLs boot menu is pre-designed for your use and is, IMHO, a solution that does EXACTLY what you are doing. They have pre-structured to make booting, with session management, simple for ALL of the KLs. And its the same for each of the KLs.

If you follow their OOTB model, it can be used for EVERY forum distro, like WoofCE, that offers session-management which is what it appears you desire. Thus a single, one-time, solution where its obvious.

Do this and you will understand session-management for all forum distros. They made this so simple and its built-in to their boot strategy for simple operation with little need for user involvement when booting.

I repeat: If you are willing to follow their model, pre-designed, it can be used for ALL forum distros.There is no magic, no necessity for ever changing, no need to change anything as it is so OBVIOUS (like SAVESPEC does).

Done once for the lifetime of your PC(s) for ALL future distros use. (To be clear, you ONLY do this once!!!) You must;

1. Create a partition labeled Persistence (not 'SAV' as you show. In fact, a single command can be used to change the label you have to 'Persistence')

2. On the Persistence partition, create a folder named Sessions

As you can see, this naming "Sessions folder on the Persistence partition" make a very obvious understanding of what you use that for.

That's it! That will cover all future use for any forum distro you ever boot from the forum. All of this make booting simple for use in booting KLs and WoofCE Pups.

Beside all the words, I have explained this several time to the forum for about 5 years now.

Repeating, this is what I do for every PC I ever get ... Again this is only done ONCE for any given PC as this is a permanent area for ALL sessions to be kept.

1. Make a Persistence partition on its system drive

2. Create a Sessions folder on the partition

And all of my KLs and PUPs use this, OOTB, forevermore. This is so obviously simple and so obviously foolproof. Its brilliant! Credit goes to the KL people (@wiak, @rockedge, @fredx181, @Sofiya) and to @gyrog with the WoofCE team.

Boot WoofCEs as their SAVESPEC points there. Boot KLs as their boot menus point there. Simple and solved ... Once!

Lastly, no boot menu changes are necessary for the booting distro to find its session during boot.

Enjoy

@Clarity
You indicate this can't be done for KL's:

Clarity wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 9:17 pm

Hello @JusGellin
NO. Not at this time. It 'may' show up with support in the future if its developers deem appropriate. So, currently, it is a WoofCE Puppy exclusive.

Then you mention how to set this up.

Hark! Look at what the KL developers have done for you.

Does this mean it can be done?

I set up KLV-vmHost-rc4 on a virtual machine, set it up to send the save to the Persistence drive, but it didn't.
Should it work?

Thanks

I think you are a little confused by my word salad. The answer is that KLs do not (at this time) support or use SAVESPEC. It remains a WoofCE exclusive.

Instead at the time KLs got started as they integrated GRUB2 into their build processes, they elected to assist users by their implementation in the boot menus they have.

@JusGellin, I ask: Have you noticed the KL menu stanzas? Do you not see what they have done on user behalf? I think they make it clear, personally, to anyone booting a KL.

OK, in summary:

1. Make the partition label as I have shared earlier.

2. Make the folder on the partition as I have shared earlier

Then, boot the KLs with no need to interrupt booting to direct its management for booting and saving sessions on your/user behalf. They make it simply clear, IMHO.

Hope this makes some sense. Get back to us, here on the forum. if you are still confused. Others may be capable of a better explanation of the KL boot stanzas to help explain that if you do the 2-steps, all is taken care of for you.

P.S. The same partition-session layout works for WoofCE PUPs too. I've use that layout for over 5 years for all of the distros on the forum. Its just simple.

@Clarity
Oh yeah, That's how I have been doing this.

I just misunderstood you mentioning something right after the first part.

No problem.
I always appreciate your help.
You seem to have some good ways of doing your testing of the builds.

Thanks

JusGellin wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2025 12:18 am

... I set up KLV-vmHost-rc4 on a virtual machine, set it up to send the save to the Persistence drive, but it didn't.
Should it work? ...

YES! (although, I have not tested this particular KL)

Maybe @rockedge or another member can explain 'why' it did not work.

I assume you are running this within a VM for test purposes before your actual moving it to bare-metal.

To me, this "KL server" is like a Promox/VMware server supporting some/many VMs simultaneously on the server.

I foresee @rockedge using this for the work he does for this forum as well as the work he's done with cameras ... as all of this can work in harmony on a single PC KL VM server. Great idea he shows us with this KL project.

And the rest of us also using it for similar multiple VMs for either testing forum distros or for productions in various scenarios from entertainment to whatever needs users have. A great single solution for one's every need.

Edit: Deleted my post since it wasn't making sense.

Clarity wrote: Sun Jan 05, 2025 9:17 pm

Hello @JusGellin
NO. Not at this time. It 'may' show up with support in the future if its developers deem appropriate. So, currently, it is a WoofCE Puppy exclusive.

I'm sorry, but the above is wrong information. All firstrib-based distros, such as the KL distros, have been able to do this since near the beginning of their build design. i.e. for years. The claim that savespec is unique or special is simply false.

In firstrib/KL the current name of the file used in similar (but optionally more powerful) is w_initconfig. It can do far more however than the SAVESPEC file used by Puppy distros though it can just be used for that simple pointer to where save folder is and nothing more if a user so wishes. Its use is entirely optional in which case Persistence/Sessions will be automatically used by the likes of Ventoy. But a w_initconfig file in frugal install or distro iso directory can be used instead to directly specify save location, so no, you are not waiting for some new such KL development. Has been available for years (though once was using w_init file for that same purpose but simplified usage via w_initconfig file).

I have little time for forum these days since feel the place is more for Puppy distro ( as is this thread) anyway so you have to search for any explanation of using w_initconfig yourself for now at least. I posted plenty about it long ago. Since forum not changing its Puppy focus I later plan to move my own Firstrib dev chat elsewhere since audience here too low nowadays and swamped by Puppy section areas mainly, which is fair enough I suppose since is PLDF afterall.

@wiak
Thanks for your great insight and direction concerning this.
I'm looking forward to researching deeper.

wiak wrote:

I have little time for forum these days since feel the place is more for Puppy distro ( as is this thread) anyway so you have to search for any explanation of using w_initconfig yourself for now at least. I posted plenty about it long ago. Since forum not changing its Puppy focus I later plan to move my own Firstrib dev chat elsewhere since audience here too low nowadays and swamped by Puppy section areas mainly, which is fair enough I suppose since is PLDF afterall.

Bottom line is there isn't enough interest despite all the efforts in KLV. Maybe FirstRibIt will be the hit.

I am seriously disappointed by this statement overall. Is it impossible for you to ignore the Puppy Linux part and concentrate on the KL sections?

I have put in HOURS AND HOURS working on and producing FirstRib and Kennel Linux products and write extensively about it.

@wiak it would be great to improve the structure of the Forum but I am hesitant because I already have A DEDICATED FirstRib/Kennel Linux Forum that no one except me and Sofiya use. Even spammers hardly attempt to spam the forum. Not even the guy who was made head admin of that forum ever goes there.

There have been 6 downloads of KLV-Airedale in many months. One download of KLV-Spectr and the promised "other dedicated firstrib forum" has been talked about but never seems to be put together.

I guess I'll have to find the time (after midnight) to try to gather and create better KL documentation on my own,

I dislike being told I'm not good enough, what I provide is below standards and is dying out. Thanks for that cheerful new years message.

@JusGellin I will track down the documentation on how to work with the wd_init to set up the scenario you seek

You can start by looking at the wd_init that is included in the distro system ISO.

I am not a develper. i dp know a little on how to use AI to interrogate and change code. BUT, remember something in the past where early on some members frown upon it's use.

@MochiMoppel is a code genius, along with many others on the forum. Although I see little presence in the KL area of the forum, one of them 'may' be willing to review the code for either adaptation to use SAVESPEC if either a stanza is chosen by a user during boot or something that would be reasonable.

So far, assuming users follow the current method built-in to KL, and noting that they ensure their SAVESPEC follows at well, booting KLs and booting WoofCEs WORK, harmoniously!

@wiak, @rockedge, and others, too, have been wonderful in this establishment.

To summarize, REPEATING, KL booting is pre-designed to take all of the guesswork out of where Persistence exist for saving a user's session work. Namely, choose any of the boot menu stanzas that say Persistence for the label of the disk and Session as the name of the folder. KL's ALL boot with this simple solution built-in.

This, following SAVESPEC, is what I have used, unchanged, for several years now where ALL of my KL sessions and my WoofCE are kept...along with other DOGs on the forum. As such when present and placed with ALL ISOs I boot, I do NOTHING to change boot stanzas when booting KLs or WoofCE PUPs. I merely select the shown boot menu, boot, and 'know' my session will be save where it should on the Persistence labeled partition, in its Session folder.

# This file, if present, will be used by WoofCE PUPs at boot time.
# The file sets the SESSIONs directional for the booting UP distro.

# Indicate the label or UUID containing Sessions
SS_ID='Persistence'
# Indicate the folder containing Sessions
SS_DIR='/Sessions'
# Indicate the media type device containing Sessions
SS_MEDIA='atahd'

Thanks to the KL people and @gyrog or their attempts to make booting and session save TOO SIMPLE for users.

Enjoy

rockedge wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 4:04 pm

@JusGellin I will track down the documentation on how to work with the wd_init to set up the scenario you seek

You can start by looking at the wd_init that is included in the distro system ISO.

the iso has a file called w_init-latest

Would that be the same as wd_init

Thanks

@JusGellin Yes w_init-latest is the correct file. The FR initrd.gz can source and execute this file when it is named wd_init.

Simply make a duplicate file and name it wd_init.

The purpose of this file is modify the initrd.gz without having too decompress it, modify it, then compress it again. It is a mirror of the init contained in the initrd.gz and changes in wd_init will take precedence over the init code supplied by the initrd.gz .

Will need to double check where to correctly place the file. Although I think it is simply placed next to the initrd.gz.

Once the wd_init is in the righ location it will be automatically sensed. sourced and executed during the system start/boot

In the wd_init it is possible to make modifications to fit your needs. It is a powerful tool

@rockedge
I renamed it and placed it where wd_init is.
Rebooted. It still goes to the system partition instead.

I even renamed upper_changes so it wouldn't be seen and rebooted.
It made a new upper_changes in the default place - not the Persistence partition.

I tried putting wd_init where the menu.lst is and it still doesn't send to the Persistence partition.

I myself have not done it in long time.....I'll have to look and see how it works........

I 'think' some info about the w_initconfig file (alternative to just modding w_init) was provided by me here. Bit buried away:

viewtopic.php?p=116935

Again... this file does everything and more than SAVESPEC so would the person asking puppy coders to write savespec for KL please listen and stop writing rubbish. Or do you simply insist that w_initconfig be renamed to SAVESPEC despite my using a different internal format and more powerful configuration ability on purpose? Stop ignoring facts about the features always being available in FR design.

rockedge wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:57 pm

I dislike being told I'm not good enough, what I provide is below standards and is dying out. Thanks for that cheerful new years message.

I never said any of that - no personal attack on anyone. But did warn forum in danger.

I do believe the forum is in danger of becoming not very active, slow death perhaps, and in that regard I belief Puppy is no longer a good and valid way of attracting many people. Unfortunately more exposure and marketing of KL/FR methodology and distros may not help either, but it has more current scope and useful for many years yet for anyone interested. I don't myself see Puppy development is moving ahead much. I certainly did, yet again, receive personal attacks for my honest viewpoint and particularly from one global but puppy-fixated moderator and nothing was done about that attack by other moderator who in other circumstances seems obsessed with the rule making. That attack finished my own enthusiam to seek improvements here.

Fact is, mobile phone usage has taken over for most people - faster than expected maybe so maybe decay in activity here is inevitable so we have to face that and cater for the small distro Linux users left. For me that means marketing FirstRib methodology, which we all know is only a side- show on this Puppy marketed forum. Anyway, that's up to me what I do further with FR and currently on the back-burner.

I have just ordered an 8.5 inch Android tablet though and been experimenting with otg and bluetooth devices. I intend thereafter to use Linux remotely via ssh and vnc or rdp or similar. But since most computer time nowadays is simply internet browsing, that will mainly just be on the Android tablet. That's the reality, but if Puppy itself wants more active users best I feel its forum asks the other forum featured distros to move to homes of their own. The sharing/collaborative alternative has been tried but the forum is organised with Puppy as prime focus and Puppy key forum moderators always resisted shared collaboration for years and years as tons of their past posts evidence for all.

@wiak, I APOLOGIZE if I have offended you. Please see a PM to be sent.

Clarity wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2025 8:37 am

@wiak, I APOLOGIZE if I have offended you. Please see a PM to be sent.

Clarity, you send me a PM telling me that SAVESPEC is a static file user only needs to put in bootfrom directory to specify where saves will be made and thus bypassing grub menu specification.

You go on to say that no other distro in the world has this mechanism because it is provided by woof-CE and interpreted by Puppy's initrd...

I am frustrated trying to tell you that w_initconfig file of firstrib/KL is a simple text file that user can place in bootfrom directory that does exactly the same thing, and can be used to do more if user optionally wishes. The FirstRib initrd notes it being provided, and interprets its contents (to determine where saves are to go). So much for your claim 'no other distro in the world can do this.

An example content for w_initconfig is:

w_changes=UUID=xxxxxxyyyyyyzzzzzz=/anywhere

The xxxxxxyyyyyyzzzzzz is the desired uuid of save folder partition.
The /anywhere is the directory you want used for saves within that partition.

Just drop that w_initconfig file into bootfrom frugal install directory, or into BOOTISOS if say using Ventoy and the specified save location will be used (no matter what had otherwise by default been put in grub.cfg menu (the grub menu gets ignored if that w_initconfig file is present).

Alternatively, w_initconfig could refer to partition LABEL instead of UUID.

Please therefore stop making untrue technical claims about what you wrongly thought was a unique feature only available in Puppy Linux (in whole world of distros...sigh...). FirstRib distros have always been able to thus statically point to any desired save location. The FR initrd interprets w_initconfig contents if that simple file is provided in boot folder by the user!

Make sure, therefore, you understand what a distro can do before asking for 'Puppy' coders to provide a facility for KL that has been available for YEARS and is NOT thus unique to Puppy Linux AT ALL.

rockedge wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:57 pm

@wiak it would be great to improve the structure of the Forum but I am hesitant because I already have A DEDICATED FirstRib/Kennel Linux Forum that no one except me and Sofiya use. Even spammers hardly attempt to spam the forum. Not even the guy who was made head admin of that forum ever goes there.

I visited that forum when you were first testing it, but I didn't save the link, now I'm not sure where to find it.

rockedge wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2025 3:57 pm

There have been 6 downloads of KLV-Airedale in many months. One download of KLV-Spectr and the promised "other dedicated firstrib forum" has been talked about but never seems to be put together.

I try to grab all the latest isos, but I think there's an element of KL distros being so self-maintaining that they eliminate keeping up with the latest release. It's true in my case anyway, that I am operating many versions behind in the KLV's because the versions I have are working smoothly and easily updateable. Unlike the woof approach, a KLV or KLA is not a static build that needs a total rebuild to keep the latest software on it.

I do a system wide update bi-weekly on a working upper_changes and squash a layer from it every three or four months, and then create a fresh upper_changes to work from. In the course of a year the overall compressed system size wil become quite large, maybe 12-20 gigs as I have an enormous amount of audio and video software and supporting libraries installed, but still, in the big scheme of Operating Systems, that's not really so huge. How big is an install of Mac or Windows these days? I wouldn't know.

So the lack of downloads, at least on my end, is not an indication of lack of interest, but rather a testament to the amazing stability and flexibility of these rolling release builds. Though I still try and download all the current iso and script releases for future builds.

The point about whether KL has it's own "savespec" or not is almost moot in terms of boot location, because the grub stanza mechanism is more than versatile enough to boot reliably from anywhere. But I'm sure there are other very useful parameters in the wd_initconfig that I should be looking into in the future.