Fossapup vs. FossaDog

[Luluc]

How is Fossapup different from FossaDog in practical terms? Does either one have any advantages or limitations that the other doesn't?

[ozsouth]

@Luluc - of Fossapup64 - it has more widespread usage & some lateral development (that's both a strength & weakness). Fossadog has a more focussed approach. It depends on what you want to do. My Fossa64-Mid (267mb, in Remasters forum section) is very popular, as a cut-down but modernised version of the original (409mb).

[Clarity]

There are at least half-dozen FossaPup floating around on this forum. Some are WoofCE versions, couple are hybrids, and a few are remasters.

The original FossaPUP64 is the model where it does a fairly good job of emulating what comes in a standard Windows OS. That is to say it have most of the utilities that do the same things and it also has smb networking such that it is comfortable and recognized by almost all things found on a Home's LAN. After that original version there are several which are exact in that they differ by upgraded apps. One of them, for example, is F96CE by @rockedge and community contributors. Thus your home networking use will be identical.

FossaDOG64 is a recreation of the same functionality found in FossaPUP64. Yet, it is entirely centered around the LInux FOSSA distribution found on Distrowatch. Thus, it uses that package manager exclusively to provide its functionality.

IMHO, both of these have been great, stable distros, OOTB. Today they are a little dated, but comfortable in use on each's desktop with similar look and feel. There are newer forum distros from both the WoofCE forum community as well as the DOG forum community that you probably would want to use for some very good reasons.

Hope this is helpful

[Luluc]

IMHO, both of these have been great, stable distros, OOTB. Today they are a little dated, but comfortable in use on each's desktop with similar look and feel. There are newer forum distros from both the WoofCE forum community as well as the DOG forum community that you probably would want to use for some very good reasons.

I want and need a system that is extremely compatible with an official distro including running synaptic and not causing problems. For example, if I want to add the KXStudio repository or install the WPS Office suite using their own .deb package, I need everything to work as those developers expect. I can't afford to live in a walled garden where I have to depend on pets and SFS files to have Wine or Virtualbox or whatever.

Then why not just use an official distro?
1. I really like the frugal approach to installation and Puppy/DebianDog has the best one in my opinion. MX's way of doing it for example is not so good.
2. I really like the Puppy culture of providing applets and menus that make many things easier. No other distro shows so much care for the user. I can even live without those, but I really like the mentality.
3. You also don't seem to be overly concerned with aging. You use old hardware, old software, know old is still useful, and I love that too.
4. I really like to meet other people who don't think that logging in as root is a crime, a sin, or act of sheer stupidity. This raging taboo the Linux community has created around it is just dumb. I ran Windows 95/98 for 8 years as "root" and never had a problem with it. To hell with sudo. We're not children.
5. Boy, you people use a lot of small applications I had never heard about before. Another one of the very few aspects I miss from my long gone Windows period. The true diversity of the Linux ecosystem shines through here.

Edit: I am not ready to embrace EasyOS because of the compatibility angle I mentioned above, but I think it's going in the right direction that Linux should go. That should be the new standard. I hope the world embraces it one day.

[geo_c]

I want and need a system that is extremely compatible with an official distro including running synaptic and not causing problems. For example, if I want to add the KXStudio repository or install the WPS Office suite using their own .deb package, I need everything to work as those developers expect. I can't afford to live in a walled garden where I have to depend on pets and SFS files to have Wine or Virtualbox or whatever.

I'm not selling anything here, but reading your recent posts, it seems to me that what fits your description would be one of the Kennel Linux offerings. In a nutshell these are basically mainstream OS's frugally installed in a puppy-like manner. They aren't focused on Debian per se, but tend to be developed more for Arch and Void. However I know @wiak built a basic KLU-jam which is Ubuntu, so should use Debian packages, but Ubuntu to my knowledge is not a "rolling release."

I personally like the Arch and Void main stream distros because they are rolling releases, meaning they overcome the frozen-in-time aspect of pups that you seem to be trying to avoid. System wide updates and new packages are regularly available.

KL's are built with scripts, and the script will build most mainstream root filesystems for you, in a versatile frugally installed structure. So if you don't like the current flavors produced as isos, then you could potentially build your own with the firstrib script.

Here some links explaining:
viewtopic.php?t=12030
viewtopic.php?t=9321
viewforum.php?f=192

[fredx181]

...
I'm not selling anything here, but reading your recent posts, it seems to me that what fits your description would be one of the Kennel Linux offerings.
...

Yes, Kennel Linux could be nice for you, Luluc, to explore Arch or Void perhaps Includes the appropriate package manager of course.

Also, for Debian "based" Puppies: BookwormPup and Vanilla-dpup have apt working (and therefore synaptic too).

[rockedge]

Using NoblePup64 I was able to successfully install ZoneMinder from the Ubuntu PPA from iconner using the APT package manager. One or two small manual adjustments to load the ZM database tables and the system works well and updates ZoneMinder via Synaptic as well.

A ZoneMinder installation is my ultimate test on how smooth and complete a system can do the setup of dependencies and all the needed components of a complicated install. Usually if this works so will most package installations via the package manager.

[Luluc]

because they are rolling releases, meaning they overcome the frozen-in-time aspect of pups that you seem to be trying to avoid.

Oh no, I think I never said that. Did I? I have almost no problem with frozen-in-time. In fact, I like it to some extent. I am still struggling a bit with configuring Fossa, but there is a good chance I will be happy with it, especially because it's a little old. It seems to have packages that Debian has abandoned, even more so because I can install a few things from Bionic on it, but it's not old enough to prevent me from running some newer applications out there, lots of them on Github.

I said I don't like walled gardens.

Also, for Debian "based" Puppies: BookwormPup and Vanilla-dpup have apt working (and therefore synaptic too).

Now you see, Bookworm is too new for me. It's the latest Debian and Debian has been abandoning too many packages. I am not even a real fan of Debian. I always used it because of its Package Supremacy™, nothing else. I wouldn't be using Debian if Linux packages were all distro-agnostic.

Using NoblePup64 I was able to successfully install

A newer Ubuntu may be good for future-proof insurance, but I'll have to see how much has been dropped since Fossa to determine if it really suits me. I really hate abandoning software.

[rockedge]

A newer Ubuntu may be good for future-proof insurance, but I'll have to see how much has been dropped since Fossa to determine if it really suits me. I really hate abandoning software.

I use a F96-CE_4 and KLV-Airedale-sr15 for most of the daily driving and work. I still bounce into a Bionicpup64-8.0 that was continually added too and tinkered with that has a lot of software working on it and did heavy lifting until eventually I migrated to Fossapup64 then into F96-CE_4.

For any audio and or video work/play I use one of the KLV-Spectr-RT variants, but for just easy listening I can use one of the daily drivers.

Right now experimenting with the latest Noblepup64 from a woof-CE build. It's pretty minimal with default programs, tools and utilities and is missing SAMBA components and a boot loader installer. It is though a good chance to use apt to add to the system and grab some PET's as well to outfit the system with some of those cool tools.

Having apt and Synaptic onboard and becoming accustomed to using those in a Puppy Linux is the current exercise and currently attempting to install and run a specialty ZoneMinder called Zoneminder130. So basically I am test driving a Noblepup64 and adding programs and features to it as I go.

Based on the ZM version 1.30.4 it has been overhauled and refitted to the latest standards, Every Zoneminder after version 1.30.4 had begun to use the new style web console which has significant changes in design from the 1.30 series web console. Also the 1.30.4 was stable and had less option features. What is exciting about it is this version of ZM is much lighter on resources and a good match with Puppy Linux distro's.

[geo_c]

because they are rolling releases, meaning they overcome the frozen-in-time aspect of pups that you seem to be trying to avoid.

Oh no, I think I never said that. Did I? I have almost no problem with frozen-in-time.

Okay, I gathered that you might be wanting to grab the latest Debian packages from developers on github, and that you would be needing to install a lot of newer dependencies like glib's and python versions and all that kind of stuff to accomodate the latest application versions. And the way I understand it from experience is that with a puppy, you can only go so far before those newer libraries break the system. Of course guys here know how to push a pup into the outer limits! Not me so much.

If you're actually wanting to be backward compatible that would be a different story. And I think @rockedge is the guy to listen to, not me for sure.

[Clarity]

@Luluc ... Thank you for outlining your objectives

I going to go out on a limb with this recommendation, which I feel it is just what you would find for a long period of happiness without distractions.

This bring 2 Puppy LInux Discussion Forum offering that is a time-capsule variant that incorporates where Linux is today and tomorrow of existing and future 64bit PCs.

It is fully feature carrying ALL of the subsystems that past-&-present PUPs have, while containing the improvements that the overall Linux community has developed for audio, video, multimedia, and networking in a distro that is supported in more than half-dozen communities in the Linux world to entertain answers just as we do in Puppyland.

Puppy Linux Discussion Forum (PLDF) has a sub-forum area known as Kernel Linux ("KLs" as some of us refer to it)
Many forum members (including several on this thread) have contributed to it and the knowledge in that subforum, like other subforums in the PLDF, is extraordinary.

Specifically, I offer you this for your personal review
It is KLA-KDE or KLV-KDE. They are similar in the KDE, BUT differ in that one is Arch-based (KLA) while the other is Void-based (KLV). Do NOT be turned off by its interface as it is a little different, but it addresses your application needs while giving you a platform that is the MOST advanced and stable containing all of the modern linux elements in this packaging on the forum.

Take a look. You might be surprised at its flexibility and usefulness without you having to migrate or make changes over the next 4 years. That's how advanced this combination of Linux features these 2 distros are and how stable they are on your PCs and home network.

Again, I offer this for 3 reasons:

1. Its the most current in the forum; with where the Linux OS is at today

2. It is stable (most important to me)

3. You wont have to change to a new PUP distro in the future as either of these 2 KLs have long-term implications built-in

Enjoy

[Luluc]

@Clarity

Thank you for your attention. I apppreciate it.
Looks good, but I really need Debian or Ubuntu because of the "Package Supremacy" and overall compatibility I mentioned previously.
I also don't like KDE. I really like Openbox/LXDE. I have a lot of customizations for it.

Thank you.

[mikeslr]

You may want to take a look at the NoblePup64s. There are three. All run as root. Binary compatible with Ubuntu Noble Nimbat (Ubuntu's latest offering) you should be able to install KXStudio, https://kx.studio/Repositories and WPS Office, https://www.wps.com/. All include Apt/Synaptic if and when you choose to use it. But all can via Puppy Package Manager also install pets and debs and make use of Mikewalsh's (and other's portables) and many AppImages. Mike didn't publish a portable WPS Office, but did a Softmaker Office. See, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/post/48734/report. See https://www.wps.com/blog/wps-office-com ... load-post/ for a comparison of features. WPS seems to have the edge, but not if you're using the free version. Depending on your needs, the main advantage of the paid version of WPS is that it includes a PDF editor. But Mikewalsh's MasterPDFEditor is free, viewtopic.php?p=7517#p7517. If needed, I can supply the necessary libs.

Exton's PuppEX Noble64 can be obtained from the link here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 79#p133679

Rockedge's from the link here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 02#p129302

Jasper or peebee's (I think peebee's with the link provided by Jasper) from here, https://github.com/peabee/woof-CE/relea ... .09-241004

You'll find some notes on my exploration of the NoblePup64's here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 10#p133710. At the time of posting I was using peebee's (no longer available) earlier build. I've since replaced it with Rockedge's later build. I've also used Exton's version. Each is solid. It's just that rockedge's version was the last I tried and F96 still being my 'daily driver' have little reason to change 'NoblePup64' until there are later developments or the use of F96 presents a problem.

[Clarity]

@666philb when he created FossaPup64 set an OOTB standard that seemingly brought together the very best that Puppy Linux could offer in a modern distro with modern packages that could live harmoniously on a LAN. Most important, at least to me and many others, is that it incorporated everything any migrating from Windows user would want in a desktop Menu alignment that made sense.

For many of the students, back then, that I had try it out/use, they installed little if anything to use for all of their class/home needs. This reduce ALL learning curve from discovery to merely employing. Further because many of them used there laptops/PCs at home they were able to have other LAN resources using things that was shared from their PCs to their home units.

NoblePUP64 and another (I cant remember) does NOT come with total Windows matching LAN services as it is missing SAMBA for smb needs, that so many home devices understand. So recently I steer users to BookWormPUP64 v1008 since semester start. FP64, too, had all they needed with NO need to install for immediate use. In fact, excepting for this PUP, ALL top 20 mainstream Linux come with smb services built-in OOTB. AND MOST every forum distro, too, has smb services, OOTB.

For you, I stand with others, based on what you have shared in this thread, to consider BKWP64 v1008 as it has just about all you are desiring as a base for your applications, IMHO.

Hope this path is simple and easy.

[Luluc]

You may want to take a look at the NoblePup64s.

I definitely will. I'm still entertained with other things, but I will.

you should be able to install KXStudio, https://kx.studio/Repositories and WPS Office, https://www.wps.com/.

Running new stuff is easy if your libc6 is not too old. Fossa has version 2.31. Not bad at all. The problem is the opposite: running older packages. They're just not available anymore in spanking new distros.

Mike didn't publish a portable WPS Office, but did a Softmaker Office. See, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/post/48734/report. See https://www.wps.com/blog/wps-office-com ... load-post/ for a comparison of features.

I am familiar with both. I've had both installed for years. They're good. Better than LibreOffice.
But you shared a bad link there. 48734/report. Please take a look.

Depending on your needs, the main advantage of the paid version of WPS is that it includes a PDF editor.

Are you sure? I think the PDF editor is not included in the free version.

If needed, I can supply the necessary libs.

That is concerning. Why do you offer libs? Can't those applications be installed in the "normal" way, I mean, through Synaptic or downloading a .deb and installing it with dpkg? I often get the impression that a lot about Puppies and Dogs involves a lot of hacking. I would rather live a more "ordinary" life.

It's just that rockedge's version was the last I tried and F96 still being my 'daily driver' have little reason to change 'NoblePup64' until there are later developments or the use of F96 presents a problem.

How different or similar are the NoblePup64s and F96? I tested F96 and determined it doesn't suit me. It's not Synaptic-friendly enough.

Many thanks for the information. Very, very helpful. I appreciate it.

[mikeslr]

Pre-1st cup of coffee, so I won't track down the correct link.
"Why do you offer libs? Can't those applications be installed in the "normal" way, I mean, through Synaptic or downloading a .deb and installing it with dpkg? I often get the impression that a lot about Puppies and Dogs involves a lot of hacking."

MasterPDFEditor is built on the Qt4 framework. Recent Linux Distros have moved on to at least Qt5. So the repositories accessed by Apt/Synaptic can't provide Qt4 libraries. Such OSes, however, have no problem using Qt4 applications once the necessary binaries and libs are provided. I think the last 'Ubuntu' which provided Qt4 applications was Bionic Beaver. When Bionic Beaver reached EOL its repositories were archived: a PITA to search and download from.

Puppies which are binary compatible with major distros use some but not all the binaries of that distro; e.g. BionicPup -- Ubuntu BionicBeaver. PPM does a good job, and apt/synaptic a better job installing an application's dependencies. But neither 'know' what dependencies the creator of a application didn't include because it was already always included in the OS itself. Puppy's Utilities>ListDD (dynamic dependencies) will identify what libs are missing. After which you can search for them on pkgs.org or use the compatible major distro's search engine, e.g. https://packages.ubuntu.com/ which, however, do not index archived repositories.

Applications you'll find in the Additional Software SubForum were built to include all required dependencies at the time built. Perhaps Mikewalsh's MasterPDFEditor can be used OOTB with post BionicPup Puppies. I'm using the one I created before he published.

Rockedge published a FossaPup64 which includes apt/synaptic. But I can't find the link from which it can be downloaded*. All 'DebianDogs' and 'UbuntuDogs', https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewforum.php?f=22 provide at least apt. IIRC, they are created by initially starting with a net-install of their compatible distro thus assuring full compatibility. See geo_c's post above regarding the Kennel Linuxes, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewforum.php?f=192. My understanding is that the major difference between them and their 'binary compatibles' is that they use a modified init which enables the distro to work as a 'frugal install'.

And then there's dimkr's VanillaDpups which might actually be what you're looking for, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 158#p48158. Dimkr may confirm/deny. But I think currently the ones for general use are the 10.0.xs downloadable from links here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 045#p59045, likely the ISO named "vanilladpup-10.0.66.iso". Note the 'retro' version is 'barebones' and this shows the differences between the other two: https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/

---=----=-
* Edit, see the discussion beginning here, viewtopic.php?p=49341#p49341. Sorry, this mod appears no longer to be available.

[Luluc]

@mikeslr
I tested Vanilla Dpup a few months ago, still have the ISO.
It works well, but I am actually avoiding Bookworm or even Debian altogether. I have been using Debian since version 7 and I think Debian is no longer as good as it used to be. Ubuntu is not that awesome either, but Fossa seems to be (I could be wrong) like an old Debian with a newer libc6. That is probably the sweet spot I've been looking for.
I've been experimenting extensively with FossaDog with extremely good results. One minor glitch with Openbox, no big deal, everything else works as expected. Everything installed from official Fossa repositories with Synaptic. This seems to be the way. I just need to have a look at the Noble-based pups. I will.

[Luluc]

Can you people give me information about this?

https://github.com/peabee/woof-CE/relea ... .09-241004

What is it based on? Debian? Ubuntu? What?
What is the desktop environment?
What is docx_upup64n_24.09.sfs?
What is nlsx_upup64n_24.09.sfs?

[Luluc]

Bad experience with puppex-noble64-uefi-rox-desktop-939mb-241028.iso

The theme is garish and unpleasant for my taste.
The fonts are too small. The selection of fonts is disappointing too.

I can't change any of that. The GTK theme changer is just broken. The changes won't apply.

I don't like wallpapers, I like a solid color background. But there is no such option either. I could only choose "Clear" which gives me a bad shade of gray.

Fonts are very, very, very important to me. Very. Extremely.
Only Apple cares about fonts. Always did, even in the 80s.
Windows, Linux and Android have always been terrible at fonts.

[Luluc]

Similar experience with puppex-jammy64-uefi-rox-728mb-241109.iso. I can change widget theme, but no fonts or solid color desktop.

No install to hard disk either! Only USB drive. Rather surprising.

[Luluc]

I have this in an old puppy:
.
.

.
.
How does it work? What happened to it? Can we have it on FossaDog?
.
.

[fredx181]

@Jasper
No idea what you're trying to say with the banana art picture (some special mood you were in ? Cryptic message ? ), btw you are still using postimg for attaching pictures, why not use forum attachments ?

[mikeslr]

@Luluc
I'm not sure why woof seems to default to pTheming to control a JWM desktop. When not present I install radky's JWM-Desk, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 274#p32274, mostly because I find it more intuitive and easier to use. [Limitation, only two panels]. Do that before configuring the desktop using pTheming as JWM-Desk starts from scratch. Example, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 10#p133710.