Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

wiak wrote:"Advanced Topics" category does not mean "Puppy Linux" category so there is certainly an error in structure. There should be a "Puppy Linux" category just as there is a "Dog House" category.
.....
Projects area much less likely to become cluttered up now since the likes of DebianDogs have their own Category now (actually I'd like to see an 'Other Distros' thread for distros that take feedback on this forum, but which are not Puppy Derivatives really and not large enough to warrant a whole category yet - that would also help avoid potential Projects area clutter)

Yes, I agree for the most, the main goal IMO should be that it's clear to a visitor what is about "real" Puppy (and as wanderer suggested would be good, divided in "Official Puppies" and others, e.g. deratives). But... OK, then maybe the question comes, "what are "real" puppies". Often said that it should be "Woof-CE" builds, and I think that's right.

Btw, it would be OK for me if "Dog house" and the other "distro" categories will disappear and be moved to one section something like "Other Distro's" or "Other Projects" (or maybe even call it "Guest Projects", after all, it's the "Puppy Linux" forum, all different distro's from Puppy appearing here are sort of "guests").
And inside this "Other ....", maybe we can make some subforums, if desired.

Fred

fredx181 wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:43 amBtw, it would be OK for me if "Dog house" and the other "distro" categories will disappear and be moved to one section something like "Other Distro's" or "Other Projects" (or maybe even call it "Guest Projects", after all, it's the "Puppy Linux" forum, all different distro's from Puppy appearing here are sort of "guests").
And inside this "Other ....", maybe we can make some subforums, if desired.

Fair enough to me if that's all Other distros want from it. It's a forum afterall - main purpose really being discussion and feedback on Projects (friendly collaboration being a bonus). Main thing is to avoid visitor confusion (particularly between what is a 'Puppy' and what is an 'Other' altogether). Distros that become larger in scope tend to have their own home website(s) anyway on which they can provide downloads and main tutorial/documentation information or decide to have their own specific forum or not - with Github/GitLab, and similar, there is little or no cost involved aside from payment for an ongoing domain name. There are always free forum hosting sites too, albeit with some limitations.

In House Training > Beginners Help

greengeek wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:17 pm I wonder if the "International" section would also benefit from a topic called "Internationalisation" - not specific to one international language but rather dedicated to encouraging all international contributors to help make the "Master Puppy" a better fit across the globe so that people did not need to build specific pups for each language.

It will be a long process and would not be intended to detract from efforts to build specific language pups but rather a thread that would help official mainstream puppies grow in appeal.

I like the idea of one subforum called "internationalisation", where all the other languages are gathered in subforums.

(Kann das mal einer für mich übersetzen???)
Was ich meine ist:
Ein Subforum Namens "internationalisation", in dem dann alle (unterstützen) Sprachen ihr eigenes Subforum erhalten, aber auch ein allgemeiner Bereich zur Verfügung steht, für z.B. allgemeine Fragen zur Übersetzung.

Danke und Sorry

Hello.

It seems that there is some incosistency at present.
For example, Bionicpup64 is a (official) puppy. Tazpuppy is not a puppy in its narrow sense. These two are under "Puppy Projects."
For example, ScPup is a puppy. LxPup is a derivative. (Tell me, if I am mistaken.) These two are under "Puppy Derivatives."

Any project should be respected, but I wonder what is the criteria with which the puppies are categorized here.
I think we need to distinguish puppies (in its narrow sense) including official puppies from derivatives. Otherwise, they all would have to be under "Puppy Projects" equally.

Tahrpup, Xenialpup, and Slacko (6.3.2) seem to be missing in the current forum. I think at least official puppies should have their own thread in order to have consistency with the official web site (puppylinux.com).

People can't come to this forum from puppylinux.com because the links have not been renewed.

thinkpadfreak wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:48 am Hello.

It seems that there is some incosistency at present.
For example, Bionicpup64 is a (official) puppy. Tazpuppy is not a puppy in its narrow sense. These two are under "Puppy Projects."
For example, ScPup is a puppy. LxPup is a derivative. (Tell me, if I am mistaken.) These two are under "Puppy Derivatives."

Any project should be respected, but I wonder what is the criteria with which the puppies are categorized here.
I think we need to distinguish puppies (in its narrow sense) including official puppies from derivatives. Otherwise, they all would have to be under "Puppy Projects" equally.

Tahrpup, Xenialpup, and Slacko (6.3.2) seem to be missing in the current forum. I think at least official puppies should have their own thread in order to have consistency with the official web site (puppylinux.com).

People can't come to this forum from puppylinux.com because the links have not been renewed.

I suspect rockedge is waiting to hear from 01micko or similar to see what organisation they want for a Puppy Linux section. It is certainly inconsistent at present (even sitting in Advanced Topics category rather than Puppy Linux category per se). My suggestion to rockedge would be that since it is his forum and no Puppy official response regarding organisation for their needs he goes ahead and makes a Puppy Linux category and provides top-level forums for Official, and Derivatives and a new Category for 'Other or Guest distros' (named appropriately). I would say Puppy Projects should still be available (but as a subforum) but for other things altogether than 'distros'. I think mistfire is aware of the problem that Tazpup after boot is more SliTaz than Puppy (but does boot from Puppy and has lots of Puppy-lookalike components) so it is not 'really' a derivative of Puppy (so is indeed tricky deciding where its thread should go). Someone should make a decision and just do it and I'd prefer that to be rockedge especially since 01micko probably can't say where TazPup belongs either... Similarly CorePup is not a derivative of Puppy either but would fit well in 'Other/Guest distros'. This situation really needs address urgently to avoid a growing mess. In fact fredx181 of DebianDogs has indicated that he is happy to put all DebianDogs into an 'Other' (or 'Guest') category too, so if that was created alongside a 'Puppy' category then both Tazpup and CorePup would sit well inside that Other/Guest category alongside the DebianDogs (or as subforums I suppose).

It isn't at all difficult to move threads or create new categories or forums/subforums but clearly it is much easier now than later.

Possibility:

1. Create new Puppy Category.
2. Move Puppy Derivatives out of Advanced Topics into the new Puppy Category.
3. Create Official Pups forum inside new Puppy Category (alongside Puppy Derivatives).
4. Make Puppy Projects a subforum of Puppy Category (with no actual distros published in it). i.e. one-layer down in the hierarchy from Official Pups and Puppy Derivatives in order to leave some first page space in case Puppy wants some additional top-layer section later.
5. Change name of Dog House category to Others/Guest distros (choose appropriate name for that).
6. Create a subforum for TazPup in there (one layer down in the hierarchy from the DebianDogs because the DDs involve many distro varieties that are long established and may involve many threads)
7. Create a subforum for CorePup in there (one layer down in the hierarchy from the DebianDogs because the DDs involve many distro varieties that are long established and may involve many threads)
Or perhaps for cases 6 and 7 simply another 'Others' kind of space alongside the DebianDogs single separate space (inside that Others/Guest distros category). Inside either of these two - DebianDogs, and Others (currently being TazPup and CorePup) could have further subforums below these levels later if needed or wanted?

Fixing the Puppy section is most important and seems simple to me. And DebianDog seems from fredx181 comments to only want/need a single category space that they are happy to share with TazPup and CorePup and any other 'guests'...

Anyway, I think I'll make that my own last comment about this. Not for me to decide.

way cool

wonderful to see puppy sections

thanks much rockedge


but should they be moved
into a puppy section
outside advanced section

wanderer

Forum Organization.

In the discussion until now the topic has been: categories and category definition.
The word 'sections' was used, and 'sub-sections' but these are categories, and categories demand a definition.
A discussion about definitions can be quite abstract - but it is very important.
The few postings here (By wiak, wanderer & HerrBert etc) already illustrate that point.

I will illustrate what these two are 'on about' by personal example.
Example: Not long ago (as a novice/newcomer to the forum) I posted a "Q" in "How To".
Soon I got a message: "You can't post Qs in this section of the forum. This is reserved for methods."
OK - my mistake. I posted in the wrong section/category. Category definition is important. Yes?
I am using this to illustrate that the topic (=categories) is important.
Also, that wiak (and others) are making important points.

Now to my larger point: management by category definition.
(1) Document management (=information management) is an essential requirement for the on-going success of both the forum and Puppy Linux. I dare to suggest that these two are mutually dependent. Puppy Linux might fade and die without the forum (and the Puppy Wikka). And, of course, Puppy Linux is the reason the forum exists. Puppy is the head. The forum is the body. Something like that.

(2) Document management is set out clearly in ISO-9000, sect #4. This (ISO-9000) is the international standard for quality control. The principles contained in s#4 are useful guides for managing any 'unruly' heap of knowledge, esp. complex knowledge such as a The Puppy. I wrote 'useful', but (to be blunt) any organization will fall into an elephant-pit when it disregards the principles set out in the standard.

(3) The concept of 'master document' is important in document management. There are installation guide pages on the Wiki. There were I think (but I'm un-certain) installation guides on the Murga-forum. If I'm correct, then that is a violation of document management. Reliable information must be in a single document. Up to date and reliable. Maintained by a document manager. Not two places. This is obvious.

(4) On the Wiki I see notes to the effect that some info is 'out of date' or 'unreliable'. Hmmm!

(5) To return to the original subject: organization and category definition. We Puppians (and contributors to the forum) can save a LOT of time by adopting some techniques from the late 1970s. See Tom DeMarco's "Structured Analysis and System Specification". (Yourdon Press) I can say, without doubt and authoritatively, that the forum is a system and (in the end) it WILL have a specification. Us Puppians will make that specification. It may be good. It may be poor. It may be explicitly stated. It may not, but there will be one. This thread (the discussion, not my single posting) is one small step in creating that specification.

Let me illustrate the point of specification by using some questions already mentioned in this thread.
(1) What is an 'official' Puppy?
(2) What is a derivative Puppy?
(3) What is only Puppy-like?

I do not seek to answer those questions. I am more interested in the question, "How do I properly define an item/category/section?" Tom DeMarco wrote the answer and I have a copy of his book!

You may ask, "What are you on about собака?" You are living in the clouds! My answer: Structured analysis is so practical, so concise, so effective that I use it to make my 'to do' list when I go camping. Ditto for designing a uP card or elegant software. In each instance I organize my task by attribute - but more than that. DeMarco describes a short-hand notation to write those attributes on a (small) piece of paper. When a definition is complete then it can be seen, understood and implemented by 'those involved'.

This is a most useful technique and it will save us Puppians a great deal of time.
Is any-one interested in this technique and how it can be used in (or on) this forum?
OK, it's a long post - but about an important and complex topic.
It's over to you, Puppians!

собака.

cobaka wrote: Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:44 amForum Organization.
(3) The concept of 'master document' is important in document management. There are installation guide pages on the Wiki. There were I think (but I'm un-certain) installation guides on the Murga-forum. If I'm correct, then that is a violation of document management. Reliable information must be in a single document. Up to date and reliable. Maintained by a document manager. Not two places. This is obvious.

You make some very good points, собака.

You may not have noticed that since this early thread was started (originally by wanderer I believe) the forum admin/owner rockedge has created a main subforum for Forum Organization and Structure under Off-topic area (it is not really off-topic of course, but I understand he is separating it from actual discussions/feedback on Puppy and Dog distro matters). I suggest therefore you re-post what you have written there (though despite 'normal' forum etiquette I see no harm in leaving your original version here too to round this old thread off). This older thread should be locked to prevent duplication (as you say above "Not two places").

wiak