Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

I'm still learning about all of these things.
I was wondering about Linux kernel upgrades.

Is it a major job to upgrade to a higher kernel?
Does anything have to be done to a newer kernel or can it just be used as is?

For example what is the procedure for BookwormPup64_10.0.8 which has a kernel 6.1.106, to go to kernel 6.8?

Thanks

It's actually easy to swap kernels in Puppy Linux and KLV's. Tomorrow I will detail how, meanwhile there is a information on how too in the forum.

Use https://psearch.puppylinux.com to search across both forums. Also the Wiki has information: https://wikka.puppylinux.com/HomePage

See if the kernel swap tool is present, in a terminal try:

change_kernels

Important Note: when switching kernels, if you have an ...initmodules.txt file (i.e. fossapup64initmodules.txt or
similar, in same folder as puppy sfs), must delete it before first boot into new kernel. Otherwise it may try to load modules that don't exist, causing failure.

Check beforehand as I know that I have this on my laptop.

Jasper wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 9:16 am

Important Note: when switching kernels, if you have an ...initmodules.txt file (i.e. fossapup64initmodules.txt or
similar, in same folder as puppy sfs), must delete it before first boot into new kernel. Otherwise it may try to load modules that don't exist, causing failure.

Check beforehand as I know that I have this on my laptop.

@Jasper :-

Pardon the (apparent) ignorance, but, er.....huh? What on earth is an "initmodules.txt" file? Amongst many others, I run Fossapup64 myself. I've never seen this file, and she boots & runs just fine.

Mind you, mine is the original 9.5. Is yours 9.6.......or maybe this is an item generated by either

• - All the stuff you've upgraded/compiled/added to your FP64, or

• - Something generated by a later build run at Woof-CE..?

Had you added this yourself? I'm just curious; first I've heard of it. Is it actually necessary, or is it yet another "safeguard" thing?

Mike.

@mikewalsh

When I am using a laptop, devices like the (HID - Human Interface Devices) touchpad are listed in .initmodules.txt

I get this with my JammyPup64 installed on that particular piece of hardware, in this example/instance.

My daily driver is still Fossapup64-95

The introduces.txt file is written at boot to allow loading of modules for touch devices early in the boot process. As the modules may differ between kernels, a non-existent module for the changed kernel will give an error. The file will be recreated at boot for the new kernel.

This is how I change kernels.
viewtopic.php?t=317

But changing the kernel is something you only really need to do if it is going to fix some issue you have.

Changing to a different kernel is going to fix the problem.

The rule: do not fix it if it is not broken, very much applies to changing the kernel.

The only times I really needed to use a newer Linux kernel and the firmware to go with it, was to provide needed support for much newer hardware.

Example:
A very new laptop computer with very new WIFI hardware.
BookwormPup64 10.0.8 would not even activate or see the WIFI hardware.
Changed to a newer kernel and firmware than the ones in it.
Now WIFI hardware is activated, setup, and being used.

But all the other, older computers, I have used BookwormPup64 10.0.8 on.
Have had no hardware issues.
So no need to change the kernel or it's firmware.
If it is not broken do not try to fix it.

This is part of my search for what works with my new laptop and what doesn't.

lspci | grep -i net
00:14.3 Network controller: Intel Corporation Raptor Lake PCH CNVi wifi (rev 01)

There are two things that don't seem to work properly (there could be other things as well ) with puppys and KLs:
Either wifi works correctly but display doesn't work properly.
or Display works correctly and wifi doesn't work.
or one will not boot up.

Then I also tried Linux Mint 22 and Linux lite 7.2 which both had kernel 6.8.
They seem to work properly for everything.

When I ran BookwormPup64_10.0.8, it was able to use wifi correctly, but it wouldn't give different display resolutions.
So I thought that if i was able to use a newer kernel on it, maybe it would be able to make it all work properly.

So I'm just trying to figure this out the best I can.

I think the next part of my adventure is to try some kernel changes.
Thanks for the link to do this.

Thanks

I used one of the newer kernels offered by ozsouth here:
viewforum.php?f=65

For BookwormPup64 10.0.8 it has to be a usrmerge kernel.

For some reason he keeps offering them, after a while, deletes the download link, and closes the topic.

So not sure what is there to use.

May still find one on this link:
viewtopic.php?t=4448

I have a question about trying different kernels.

Can the newer kernels that are listed at kernel.org be used for this?

Thanks

Then I also tried Linux Mint 22 and Linux lite 7.2 which both had kernel 6.8.
They seem to work properly for everything.

Using Fossapup64-95 as an example, can you locate this directory?

Why not copy all the contents and then add it to your Bookworm64 fdrv?

It's rough and ready.

If you are looking for an Intel WiFi driver then go here:

https://wireless.docs.kernel.org/en/lat ... lwifi.html

Kernels have some inbuilt drivers.

Peebee produced several builds of the branch 6.8.x for LXPupSc.

The same applies to ozsouth who provided the same.

Look in the 'kernels' subforum for links.

@Jasper
Wow! thanks.
So, to do this I would use nicOS-Utility-Suite to put them in fdrv, right?

Here is a topic on getting firmware:
viewtopic.php?t=5374

I used the 65MB fdrv that is posted in ozsouth's post at the end.

Just change the name to the same as the old fdrv being used and use it as the fdrv.

Great! All this ought to keep me busy for awhile
Thanks @bigpup

I thought I better ask how to do this so I do it right.
How do I add the Linux Mint firmware to the fdrv_dpupbw64_10.0.8.sfs?
Thanks

Jasper wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 7:18 pm

Then I also tried Linux Mint 22 and Linux lite 7.2 which both had kernel 6.8.
They seem to work properly for everything.

Using Fossapup64-95 as an example, can you locate this directory?

Why not copy all the contents and then add it to your Bookworm64 fdrv?

It's rough and ready.

You can just add it to the firmware directory and save in your save folder, it will continue to work. This step is not necessary, but once you establish it works for you, you can unpack the fdrv sfs and add the firmware then repack the sfs. You then wouldn't need to keep it in the save folder.

@TerryH
Thanks I really appreciate that.

The reason for this topic was problems I was having on making KLV-vmHost work for wifi.
So I'm adding what I did there to here:

Re: Testing KLV-vmHost, Designed for Hosting VM's
Post by JusGellin » Wed Nov 13, 2024 3:53 am
https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 50#p135650

JusGellin wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 10:53 am

Finally! I got this to work on my new laptop.

Here's the story:
I studied and compared different installs on this and on another laptop that everything seems to work on.
I looked at all the settings I could from the terminal commands.

The problem I had was that this new laptop which has an Intel Core 7 processor and Raptor Lake Graphics and Network.
I compared this KLV-vmHost install with BookwormPup64_10.0.8 on this.

The KLV would work ok with the graphic resolutions but the network wouldn't work. I could set it up for wifi, but the the Advanced Network Configuraton wouldn't do anything to connect.
So I wasn't able to even install anything because it couldn't get on the internet.
The BW would not work with the graphic resolutions but the network would work.

I went through a lot to at least try to understand these better and came down to the suggestions I received to try changing the firmware
first directly at /lib/firmware, which I couldn't get to work right and even would lose the network on BW.

Also, I tried the suggestion to change the fdrv to another one from a link. This also would make BW loose any ability to connect to wifi.

So I thought, since BW had its wifi connection why not try using its fdrv and copy it over to the KLV, rename it for the KLV.
When I did that, the display resolutions still worked and when I set the wifi up, that worked well!

I'm not sure what else may or may not work on this.
What I now have is for this KLV-vmHost is a kernel 6.10.10 and firmware from Bookworm for its kernel of 6.1.106.

I kind of think this really isn't the right way to accomplish this, but so far this is best I can do.

JusGellin wrote:

I kind of think this really isn't the right way to accomplish this, but so far this is best I can do.

Funny thing is......it is ONE of the right ways of doing it. I have often also played the swap in a fdrv/01firmware game because it does work!

Instead of recompiling a kernel to make a firmware SFS or downloading the entire collection and attempting to filter to size, the fact that our kernels are so modular, it makes sense to be able to just swap in just one of the kernel components like the fdrv/01firmware SFS, until a combination is found that....works

rockedge wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:03 pm

Funny thing is......it is ONE of the right ways of doing it. I have often also played the swap in a fdrv/01firmware game because it does work!

Instead of recompiling a kernel to make a firmware SFS or downloading the entire collection and attempting to filter to size, the fact that our kernels are so modular, it makes sense to be able to just swap in just one of the kernel components like the fdrv/01firmware SFS, until a combination is found that....works

That's good to know. Sometimes I just am not sure if there may be better ways because of problems it may bring that I never thought about.
I just need the great feedback like this to go on to more things.
Thanks a lot!

My update.

As the above shows how I was able to make KLV-vmHost-rc4 (which uses kernel 6.10.10) work by using the fdrv sfs that BookwormPup64_10.0.8 (which uses kernel 6.1.106).

After I did this I ran dmesg to determine what firmware it needed for the wifi.
Then I went back to using the fdrv sfs that came with KLV-vmHost-rc4 again and copied the two wifi firmware files from Bookworm for the wifi to the KLV firmware folder.
Wifi now worked using the original fdrv.

This way the KLV is using its original fdrv sfs.

@JusGellin :-

You'll find you can do things like this not only because of Puppy's kernel stuff being 'modular', but also because firmware is kernel-agnostic; it can be used with pretty well ALL kernels of a given architecture.

It's one of our Pup's many "secret weapons"..! Just take this away with you; as bigpup said, don't change kernels just for the sake of always having the very newest version all the time, ONLY if you find you actually need to.......if everything on your machine otherwise works, leave it alone. It's a fairly good rule-of-thumb, when all's said & done.

Mike.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:24 pm

but also because firmware is kernel-agnostic; it can be used with pretty well ALL kernels of a given architecture.

Are you saying that an i386 OS would use different firmware than an amd64 OS?

Are you saying that an i386 OS would use different firmware than an amd64 OS?

I don't know where this question comes from.......Am I reading the same thing as you?

rockedge wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 4:25 am

Are you saying that an i386 OS would use different firmware than an amd64 OS?

I don't know where this question comes from.......Am I reading the same thing as you?

How would you interpret "of a given architecture"? That suggests that firmware is specific to a particular architecture.

"Are you saying that an i386 OS would use different firmware than an amd64 OS?"

Yes. AFAIK, you can't use i386 firmware with 64 bit kernels, nor vice-versa. And you can't use firmware for arm kernels under either. And kernels which are 'user-merged' can't use OOTB firmware which is located in the top level lib directory; i.e. it's hard-wired not to look in /lib/firmware.*

The only things which are almost fully agnostic are bash-scripts. Almost, because over-time some routines may have been added to bash (maybe also removed) resulting in 'bash-dialects'. But that's comparatively rare.

* Mainstream Devs got tired of trying to diagnose issues when libraries were scattered 'willy-nilly' so included an exclusionary rule in kernels.

@Jasper
It's annoying that images you posted often can't be viewed anymore (from e.g. https://i.postimg), example from this thread here: viewtopic.php?p=135407#p135407:

Please post images as a forum attachment to prevent that.

@mikeslr Thank you for the clarification.

mikeslr wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:27 pm

Yes. AFAIK, you can't use i386 firmware with 64 bit kernels, nor vice-versa.

The firmware doesn't run in the kernel, so it's not dependent on the CPU architecture. For example, GPU firmware runs on the GPU and WiFi card firmware runs on the card. Therefore, if your computer can run both 32 bit and 64 bit kernels, the same firmware (exactly same files) should work equally well.

ARM devices (like a Raspberry Pi or a smartphone) don't have Intel, NVIDIA or AMD GPUs, and don't have Intel WiFi cards, therefore the selection of firmware tends to be different across distros for different CPU architectures.

Take a WiFi dongle that requires firmware to function, connect it to both an x86 computer and a Raspberry Pi, and you'll see it works just fine with the same firmware on both.