PuppyLinux Bootable Stick Interferes With Main Drive

[JusGellin]

Laptop (HP Envy 700-406) doesn't boot properly when frugal installed BookwormPup64_10.0.7 (or 10.0.6) is plugged in.
The laptop presently has BW 10.0.7 installed (does the same with BW 10.0.6)
It boots properly without frugal installed USB stick.

Both boot stanzas are set up the same on the main drive and USB stick (but with different UUID's):
linux /BookwormPup64_10.0.7/vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pdrv=2c6ac2f8-52bd-4671-9eb4-a1acfcab3f1b psubdir=/BookwormPup64_10.0.7 pfix=fsck,fsckp TZ=GMT0

When I try this with a USB stick that is blank (it just has two empty partitions) this doesn't happen.

The frugal installed USB stick seems to interfere with the save file of the main drive.

This doesn't happen on another laptop that is a Dell Inspiron15 which boots up properly even with this USB stick plugged in.

How can I resolve this. I would like to be able to use the USB stick on this laptop as well.

Thanks

[JusGellin]

I found what the problem is.
If there is a bootable usb stick plugged in, it will only boot from that.
In the bios I made sure the boot order placed the bootable usb after the main drive - didn't help
I even disabled the usb from booting and it still booted off the usb.

I reset the pc to factory settings and it still would only reboot from the usb if it is plugged in.
Nothing I do will allow me to boot the main drive when a bootable usb is plugged in. --- bummer!!

I don't know if this worked this way when I got the pc a couple of years ago. I was only recently trying to boot from the usb but thought I was changing it to it.
I didn't know it was always selecting the usb that was plugged in.

The really bad thing that happens is if the main drive has saved files, the usb drive becomes confused recognizing these along with any on it.

[bigpup]

The really bad thing that happens is if the main drive has saved files, the usb drive becomes confused recognizing these along with any on it.

Note:
Make sure the save on the USB is not more than two layers deep on the partition.
Usually inside a directory, inside another director, inside a 3rd directory will usually not be found.

but the bios stuff could be part of the issue.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the bios issue.
There may be an updated bios firmware for this computer.
You could check the manufactures support web site, under computer model, and see what is offered for it.
Maybe their support help has info on this issue.

[Phoenix]

There are flags available on the boot entry for puppy's init to configure where to locate a savefile, etc.

[JusGellin]

@bigpup
I just use the default which is one folder to the saves.

The computer is an HP and they don't support linux.
So I'll look to what the firmware version is compared to what they have.
Then if different, I have the windows that came with it in a backup and
should be able to use that to update it.

Thanks

@Phoenix
I'll look at what those flags might be able to do for me.
I wondered what those flags were for.
Thanks

[bigpup]

Updating that changes the bios firmware is not done using an operating system.

If you find something on the HP web site about a newer bios firmware update.
Read first if it provides anything you need.

If you decide to update the bios.

You need to follow exactly what the HP support tells you on how to do it.
There will be a very specific way it is done.

If not done correctly.
You can brick the computer and not be able to boot it.
So updating the bios is not something to just jump into doing!

[williwaw]

The computer is an HP and they don't support linux.

More info about this please.
maybe the envy doesn't support legacy boot?

[dimkr]

You'll need to specify the psave=UUID boot code (with the UUID of the partition where the save is) if you want it to find the save file on an internal drive.

Why? Because when you specify pmedia=usbflash and USB drives are found, it will only search for save files on partitions on USB drives.

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... /init#L976

[JusGellin]

@williwaw

The computer is an HP and they don't support linux.

More info about this please.
maybe the envy doesn't support legacy boot?

For my laptop, HP Pavilion 11m-ap0000 x360 Convertible PC ,
I meant they don't have firmware updates for Linux. I went looked again.
I found I could go to other operating systems which took me to Linux selection that is supported:

Linux

A Linux device that is connected to the Internet updates the device software automatically. To review and download software manually, see the following public websites.
Linux Kernel Archives (in English) contains software and drivers for HP computers running Linux.

The latest kernel is 6.10.3 that it supports.

This laptop also has Legacy Bios selection. So I tried turning it on.
It then gave me two more selections when I make it go to the menu selection on boot up.
The two additional selections - one for main drive and one for USB I have connected.
Both those say "No bootable device" when selected.
When I built the frugal install for the laptop and USB, I selected all the efi selections for the boot part.

Thanks

[JusGellin]

@dimkr

You'll need to specify the psave=UUID boot code (with the UUID of the partition where the save is) if you want it to find the save file on an internal drive.

Why? Because when you specify pmedia=usbflash and USB drives are found, it will only search for save files on partitions on USB drives.

https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/w ... /init#L976

So this would apply for a frugal install on a USB stick as well?
I modified the USB stick to this, but it didn't help.
When the USB was booted, and selected to save on shutdown, it complained that there was already a save file with that name.
But even if I gave it a different name, it complained the same no matter what name I would give it.

Here's the part of the grub.cfg for the internal drive:

Code: Select all

menuentry "Puppy dpupbw64 10.0.7" {
  insmod ext2
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 2b69fbfb-01d9-457a-a887-e392221e1831
  echo "Loading vmlinuz"
  linux /BookwormPup64_10.0.7/vmlinuz pmedia=ataflash pdrv=2b69fbfb-01d9-457a-a887-e392221e1831 psubdir=/BookwormPup64_10.0.7 pfix=fsck,fsckp,trim TZ=GMT0 psave=2b69fbfb-01d9-457a-a887-e392221e1831

and the part of the grub.cfg that I changed for the USB stick:

Code: Select all

menuentry "Puppy dpupbw64 10.0.7" {
  insmod ext2
  search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 2c6ac2f8-52bd-4671-9eb4-a1acfcab3f1b
  echo "Loading vmlinuz"
  linux /BookwormPup64_10.0.7/vmlinuz pmedia=usbflash pdrv=2c6ac2f8-52bd-4671-9eb4-a1acfcab3f1b psubdir=/BookwormPup64_10.0.7 pfix=fsck,fsckp TZ=GMT0 psave=2c6ac2f8-52bd-4671-9eb4-a1acfcab3f1b

Thanks

[JusGellin]

I tried disabling USB boot in the laptop bios.
Then it doesn't give USB selection to boot and boots properly with BWPup on the internal hard drive.

Enabling USB boot in the laptop bios allows the USB to be selected.
If I select the EFI Hard drive, it boots BWPup properly on the internal hard drive.
If I select USB that has Ventoy on it, it boots properly to the USB stick into the Ventoy menu.

So this is working as you would expect. The laptop seems to be working like it should.

But having BWPup on the internal hard drive and on the USB is when the problems occur.
Even when I disabled USB Boot in the laptop bios, it would boot into the USB that had BWPup instead of the
internal hard drive.

Why is this happening?
How can I make a frugal install of BWPup on the USB that will work like Ventoy is able to?

I've done this exact same thing with the same USB with BWPup on a Dell laptop that dual boots and it works like you would expect.
Except the dual boot is using the Alpine Linux boot to dual boot BWPup on the internal hard drive.

Thanks

[dimkr]

So this would apply for a frugal install on a USB stick as well?

The save file search procedure happens only if you haven't specified psave. If you specify psave, no search is needed because it will directly mounted the correct partition without having to search all partitions (when pmedia=cd) or only USB devices (when pmedia=usbflash),

When the USB was booted, and selected to save on shutdown, it complained that there was already a save file with that name.

If I understand your setup correctly, this should happen only if it didn't find the save file on boot, so you're basically trying to create a save file when it already exists. Are you sure that the UUID is correct?

EDIT: I'm not sure I understand the problem. When the flash drive is plugged in and you boot, where does it stop? What is the error?

[JusGellin]

If I understand your setup correctly, this should happen only if it didn't find the save file on boot, so you're basically trying to create a save file when it already exists. Are you sure that the UUID is correct?

EDIT: I'm not sure I understand the problem. When the flash drive is plugged in and you boot, where does it stop? What is the error?

Ok, the problem is that when I put the USB drive in, the laptop only boots to the USB even if I select the internal drive or even disable the USB boot through the bios.
The USB boots up completely. When I shut down and it ask for a first time save and I say ok, it complains that there already is a save and to rename it different. But doesn't allow me
to rename it and shuts down. So I reboot and go to the shut down again and give it a different name, which it complains it already has that name.

Also if the internal drive has any saves (which I have deleted) it gets those saves mixed up on the USB boot up.

The problem is I would like to be able to use the USB if I want to and to be able to properly select it. I would like to be able to use the USB to test different pups if I want.

I verified the UUID is correct using lsblk and blkid.

Thanks

[bigpup]

You already said this computers bios is buggy.
Disabling USB booting and it still being able to boot from a USB, confirms this.

The reason to have USB booting enable/disable in the bios setup, is to keep someone from booting the computer by USB. ( a security thing)

If you have a UEFI bios.
Putting the bios into legacy mode or CSM, could also over ride this specific USB booting setting, making it able to boot from USB.
It also disables secure boot.
The thinking was.
Only time you would use legacy mode, was to be able to do installs of an operating system, by using a USB stick, with the operating system installer on it.

Depends on the version of the UEFI bios firmware exactly what does what.
There was a lot of back and forth, on how UEFI bios would work, and has not really settled on any specific standards, until the last few years.
Well, manufactures can edit the settings if they want to.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How exactly did you do the frugal install to the USB stick?

Give complete details.

If you used an installer program. Which one?

How exactly did you install the boot loader on the USB stick?

Is the stick one partition or more than one?

What format?

[JusGellin]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How exactly did you do the frugal install to the USB stick?

Give complete details.

If you used an installer program. Which one?

How exactly did you install the boot loader on the USB stick?

Is the stick one partition or more than one?

What format?

I'm glad you asked these things to help me make sure I am doing it right.

I set up the USB thumb drive from an existing BookwormPup installed system. (I tried 10.0.6 and 10.0.7)
So from that system I set up two partitions like a regular frugal install.
Set up the thumb drive to be GPT
first partition - 300Mb Fat32 with Boot and ESD flags
second partition - The rest of the drive as EXT4

Then using the frugal install from Menu>Setup>Puppy installer>Frugalpup-Install/manage installs
This selected the second partition to add the Linux stuff to it and the name of the save folder.
When this completed selected Boot
This added the boot menu to the first partition plus I let it use the full efi load

Set the computer to use USB boot
Set order so OS was first
USB was second

The computer is using BW 10.0.7 (10.0.6 does the same)
Booted up computer - this booted the USB

Used F9 to select the internal drive - this booted the USB

Used F9 to select USB - this booted the USB

Removed USB - this booted the internal drive

Disabled the USB boot - reconnected USB
This did the same as above with USB booting.

I think that about covers what I did.

Thanks

[JusGellin]

@bigpup
fyi
=================================================
If I use a Ventoy installed on a USB stick, it works correctly.
From the computer bios:

If I disable USB:
It boots the internal drive

If I enable USB and USB order is first:
It boots USB drive

If enabled USB and USB order is second to the OS drive:
It boots the internal drive
=================================================
I tried doing the same thing with Lubuntu installed on a USB stick

If disable USB:
It only boots internal drive

If enable USB and USB order is first:
It boots USB drive

If enable USB and USB order is second to the OS drive:
It boots USB drive

================================================
1. BW Pup boots no matter what the bios setting is.
That's not good like you said for security reasons that you want to disable the USB
2. Ventoy USB works like it should.
3. Lubuntu on USB only disabled when bios USB disabled -
Lubuntu boots no matter what order if USB is enabled.

[bigpup]

first partition - 300Mb Fat32 with Boot and ESD flags

The flags should be boot and esp

What is the ESP boot flag?
' esp ' (MS-DOS, GPT) - this flag identifies a UEFI System Partition. On GPT it is an alias for boot.

[williwaw]

Used F9 to select the internal drive - this booted the USB

what criteria do you use to ascertain the USB is the actual boot device, and thus ruling out the possibility the internal drive is actually the boot device finding the save on the USB?

[JusGellin]

@bigpup
That esp flag was a vague one to me and I never got around to look up what it means.
Now I know. I'll remember it's called esp forever now.

@williwaw
The <F9> clearly identifies what the computer's boot option menu - either internal drive or USB
So when I pick the internal drive and it booted up, I looked at the bootinit.log which identified the pmedia to belong to the USB instead of the interal drive USB

Next i installed FossaPup64CE on a USB stick and use the <F9> to again select the internal drive.
FossaPup definately came up (the internal drive has BW Pup)

I ran efibootmgr
It's indicating that the internal drive is booted up--wow??
Even though the USB drive came up.
I believe I'm reading this right.
It states the Boot Current is 0001
The one called Boot0001 says it is EFI Hard Drive ....

When I attach the Ventoy USB to the computer it works like it should
<F9> selecting internal drive boots internal drive
<F9> selecting USB drive boots USB drive
efibootmgr identifies everything like it should

[JusGellin]

I'm still trying to do my best to figure this out even with my newness to all of this.

The internal drive has BookwormPup64_10.0.7 on it
I've used the same on the USB before which had the problem for the USB booting when it is attached to the laptop.
I reinstalled BookwormPup64_10.0.6 so I could identify which drive boots.

I've simplified the grub.cfg on the USB to

Code: Select all

menuentry "Puppy dpupbw64 10.0.6" {
	insmod ext2
	insmod part_gpt
	search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid 95538ff3-be2a-4282-8fb8-a228daf4452d
	linux /BookwormPup64_10.0.6/vmlinuz acpi_osi=Linux net.ifnames=0 pmedia=atahd pdrv=95538ff3-be2a-4282-8fb8-a228daf4452d psubdir=/BookwormPup64_10.0.6 pfix=fsck,fsckp
	initrd /BookwormPup64_10.0.6/initrd.gz
}

I've done the same for the internal drive: with the different settings

Code: Select all

menuentry "Puppy dpupbw64 10.0.7" {
	insmod ext2
	insmod part_gpt
	search --no-floppy --set=root --fs-uuid 2b69fbfb-01d9-457a-a887-e392221e1831
	linux /BookwormPup64_10.0.7/vmlinuz acpi_osi=Linux net.ifnames=0 pmedia=ataflash pdrv=2b69fbfb-01d9-457a-a887-e392221e1831 psubdir=/BookwormPup64_10.0.7 pfix=fsck,fsckp
	initrd /BookwormPup64_10.0.7/initrd.gz
}

The same thing happens as before:
When the USB stick is plugged in, no matter if the computer's boot menu selects the internal drive or even if the USB drive is disabled, it boots the USB.
efibootmgr shows what was selected in the computer's boot menu even though the USB always boots.

But when I use ventoy, it works like it should.

Is there any other tests that can be done to figure out what is happening or is this just a unique problem with this computer that can't be resolved?

[JusGellin]

I restored my original Alpine Linux dual boot with BW Pup to the laptop
This dual boot boot up works like it should with the BW Pup USB plugged in.

The only failure is using a BW Pup USB on a BW Pup internal drive.

[williwaw]

The only failure is using a BW Pup USB on a BW Pup internal drive.

and only on the one laptop? when was it made? model number?

[JusGellin]

@williwaw
I have a Dell also, but it is dual boot and works. I probably should try it as a single BW boot also.

The laptop that fails so far is an HP Pavillion x360 Convertible Model 11m-ap0xxx Product Number 4P8M7UA#ABA.
The battery date shows 6/21/2022.

Thanks

[williwaw]

@williwaw
I have a Dell also, but it is dual boot and works. I probably should try it as a single BW boot also.

The laptop that fails so far is an HP Pavillion x360 Convertible Model 11m-ap0xxx Product Number 4P8M7UA#ABA.
The battery date shows 6/21/2022.

Thanks

might be worthwhile checking for bios issues with that model wherever HP owners gather. I can say that I have seen flaky bios with older HPs, more so than Dell or IBM/Lenovo.
Maybe there are some hints in others peoples similar problems that could help the BW devs narrow down the cause.

[JusGellin]

@williwaw
My Dell laptop (Inspiron 15 7000 Series) does the same thing.

I wiped out the dual boot and did a frugal install of BookwormPup64_10.0.7.
On a USB Stick I have BookwormPup64_10.0.6.

Any time I connect the USB stick, it boots up on the USB.
Even if I select the internal drive from the boot menu - it boots the USB
Even with the boot order of internal drive first - it boots the USB
On this one I could disable the USB in the bios, but it still showed up in the menu.
Here's what efibootmgr sees when the USB boot is disabled.
Boot0001* is the internal drive that should be booted because BootCurrent: 0001 indicates this.
Boot002 is the USB stick showing it should not be enabled nor selected, but is what comes up:

Code: Select all

# efibootmgr
BootCurrent: 0001
Timeout: 0 seconds
BootOrder: 0001,0002
Boot0001* UEFI: SK hynix SC308 SATA 512GB, Partition 1
Boot0002  UEFI: PNY USB 3.2.1 FD PMAP, Partition 1
# 

So both laptops respond the same with frugal BW attached to boot the USB instead of the internal drive.
I searched the forum and couldn't find if anyone else has experienced this problem.

That doesn't seem like that is the way it should work.

Thanks

[williwaw]

That doesn't seem like that is the way it should work.

This doesn't happen on another laptop that is a Dell Inspiron15 which boots up properly even with this USB stick plugged in.

My Dell laptop (Inspiron 15 7000 Series) does the same thing.

both? ok, I am confused. the problem has gotten worse after you tried a fix?

[JusGellin]

@williwaw
I have a Dell also, but it is dual boot and works. I probably should try it as a single BW boot also.

It only works because it is dual booted with Alpine Linux boot. The HP did the same and worked with dual boot.

But when either has BW Pup installed by itself with its own boot, is when the USB BW Pup is connected that they don't work.

I hope that is clear. Let me know if I need to explain further.

Thanks

[williwaw]

But when either has BW Pup installed by itself with its own boot, is when the USB BW Pup is connected that they don't work.

so it could be when BW is by itself
or
installed with its own boot

I would suspect the boot loader first. What boot loader are you using and how did it get installed.
Can you set up the internal drive with frugalpup 41?

viewtopic.php?p=127180#p127180

[JusGellin]

I would suspect the boot loader first. What boot loader are you using and how did it get installed.
Can you set up the internal drive with frugalpup 41?

viewtopic.php?p=127180#p127180

I just used the BookwormPup64_10.0.7 iso installed using ventoy to the laptops.
Then from the live puppy, I set up the partitions and then ran the Puppy Installer from the menu.
I followed the Puppy install and then the Boot install from that.

I guess I'm using grub2. How can I tell what boot loader I'm using?

I'll need some instruction for where to get frugalpup 41 and and how should I do all of this.
My laptops are available.

Thanks for your help. I'm looking forward to figuring this out.

[williwaw]

Then from the live puppy, I set up the partitions and then ran the Puppy Installer from the menu.
I followed the Puppy install and then the Boot install from that.

I guess I'm using grub2. How can I tell what boot loader I'm using?

Thanks for your help. I'm looking forward to figuring this out.

If this is a problem with the Puppy installer provided in bookworm, perhaps you could further identify which program and version. (sorry I am not using bookworm and cannot recall atm). Also please detail the particular steps you followed and some details how you set up the partitions. This will help the bookworm devs if there is a bug.

If the puppy installer in bookworm is frugalpup, you should have diskpup in your menu, it would be what you need for setting up an internal disk if you are ok with it wiping the disk and setting up the partitions for you in a few short steps.