Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Dear forum.

Skip down to "Question:" for efficiency.

Intro:
For years I have been trying to replace windows with linux but it is impossible, linux is not stable enough and I do not have time nor interest invest time tinkering with linux, those days are passed. In my opinion the linux problem is too many functions in one, quite few people needs to play 12 games while streaming to 30 platforms. Most people just need to search for new tires or replace pool filters and send a email.

Question:
Would it be possible someone could release a reliable, small clean puppy version with only a firewall, web browser and aptitude pack man (or smallest simplest alternative pack man) together with a wifi connection manager ? Wall paper choice black, nothing else. One grey boring icon pack and color choice, nothing else. English language pack, nothing else. Just as little options and as boring as possible, in software boring is always best because that means stability. Dont forget language pack, icon theme, wall papers etc is options to a software. The web browser choice should preferably be a widely used engine as firefox/chromium for least compatibility problems.

Reason:
I have several times tried to remove inbuilt packages as games and bloat with functions as "remove puppy packages", "puppy package manager" etc (names of these functions varies with release) but this ALWAYS breaks the installation to non bootable.

Motivation:
I want most stable linux for just web browsing as check emails, watch instruction videos etc. The only tool I used in pups was gparted but a few years ago gparted was crippled to non usable so not anymore. For stability I need as small and simple as possible, I only want ONE open channel in the firewall open for a web browser, nothing else. It is well proven that updates is a larger security threat than any virus so no updates, never. Puppy linux is attractive for the frugal install, just throw away the compressed kernel if any problem and replace with a new but as Im not allowed writing to the compressed image in frugal install that has never been the problem, I break ubuntu evey time when trying to slim down. My hope is to one day find a good version as the puppy precise 5.4.3 that never has been beaten in usability and stability... yet.

Optional:
Every now and then I need to install a java, python or arduino compiler to change something in my house with solar panels or hvac, this works so well in windblows with the portable compilers im not sure its worth the time trying in linux but Im happy to try around christmas where Im usually able to steal some private time. Hence my wish for aptitude pac man above. I would love to never see rox file manager again but if it is configured to full window list view I can live with that, just not confusing icon views pooping all over the screen not able differentiating the rox file manger from a virus.

kindly K.Jolf.

@knabbjolf - Welcome to the forums! I guess that by 'Aptitude Pack' you're meaning the debian installer. Although many folk have made a similar request (bare puppy with big repository installer), it has not been delivered. I made some small fossapup based puppies (Mid v5 is 255mb with Firefox) with 2023 security updates, but they have several small utilities & installer is dated. Anything with a debian installer is significantly larger, with lots of software included.

Hi K

Sounds like you want a kiosk system. One function no xtra anything.

Vektor

https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/ might work for you. It comes with Firefox, relatively few applications, apt and multi-language support. It's tuned for low CPU and RAM usage, not for small size, and you can make it much smaller by deleting docx and nlsx (documentation and translations). There's a small 'retro' flavor that's tuned for small size which comes with pretty much nothing preinstalled, but installing Firefox on it will give you a bigger and slower solution.

Thank you for quick replies. I will test proposed dist asap.

@dimkr : Thank you, will test. If there is a howto for removing dox/translations I would appreciate link.

@ozsouth : Yes, it was aptitude I tried describing but Im open to alternatives. Its just that aptitude is the one I learned with first ubuntu releases and the one Im always able getting to work when everything else fails. I understand the disadvantage of aptitude. If you know better alternative I highly appreciate all tips.

@vektor_alian : Im unsure of the concept kiosk versions. Some kiosk versions i tried was completely locked down without root access and a deadend if display driver, keyboard or something small missing but I guess there is versions of kiosk, soo...a kiosk version with root access/account along the standard kiosk user account ?

I did have interest in Linux 100 years ago but lost interest with growing hardware waste. Im ridiculously fascinated by efficient software and it is funny how environmental impact of software bloat/inefficiency is not allowed debating looking at energy waste and abundant earth metals. But thats just me.

kindly, K.Jolf.

Look down in Debian Dog forum. You dont download say a BookwormDog64 iso, (or whatever version you want, think he has a TrixieDog version script now) you BUILD it. Run the creation script and you set what you want by default. It downloads the parts it needs from the Debian repositories. Fred even has an appimage version of build script that will pretty much run on any modern linux with no worries about dependencies. It doesnt take that long well assuming you arent trying to build on a 15 year old netbook. Be aware once its done, you pretty much have to use apt to install everything beyond Firefox. I cant remember you probably can even build it with no browser. If so just use a portable browser. Long as you have apt and internet connection, you should be good to go. Dog is little different than Pup but will feel very familiar.

Actually I have become rather fond of BookwormPup64. Yea it has some built in stuff but not enough to matter that much (nothing I have felt a burning need to remove anyway) and it does do apt. Very stable. As you probably know, always "apt update" before trying to use it.

What is the computer you want to run this on??????

Make and model????

Specs if you know them would be good to see.

Is it 32bit or 64bit capable?

Not all Puppy versions are designed to work on all possible computers.

So the specific computer will tell us what version is best to suggest.

If you are judging based on Precise Puppy.
You are going to find that a lot has changed in Puppy Linux.

I can tell you for sure. Something that is provided in a specific Puppy version, may not be something you want to use right now.
But you will probably find a need for it at some point in time.
If you do not want to see something listed in the main menu.
Use menu manager to select what to show or not show in the menu.

If you try to remove builtin packages.
If you do not know exactly what you are selecting does, it is easy to remove something that is needed to run the operating system.
Just do not try to remove.
All they are doing is using a little space and not doing anything, unless you run them.
Just forget they are there.

I have no idea why you are saying Gparted is no good to use.
If you are judging on the days of Precise Puppy and what was around at that time.
The Gparted that is now in all of the latest versions of Puppy Linux is very good and works with no issues.
It is much improved from what it was in the past.

You seem to want the Puppy Linux version all setup the way you want it.
Sorry, but that is not how any operating system is released.
They have a basic setup, but all kinds of ways to adjust or change what you want.
Just takes a few minutes to get it setup the way you like.

All the latest Puppy versions come with Firefox installed for a browser.
It internally updates and is about the only program that will need to get updated.

All will have some type of E-mail program.

Note:
The latest Puppy versions are up in the 600 to 800 MB size range.
Mostly the size of the Linux Kernel and some of the major programs.
But if you built one with nothing but the stuff in it you talk about.
Most likely it would only be around 100 to 200MB smaller in size.
Most of the Puppy specific programs are really small in size. Just script files.

Thank you for replies.

I try to answer a few questions, please remind if I missed something.

First, my reason for asking is to minimize number of risks and problems, the fewer active softwares the less to monitor and worry breaking through firewall. I get the chills every time I look at all open threads for a simple web browser seeing them download something simultaneously in 8 threads but thats how internet is strictured now.

-what computer ? The main reason i skipped out all other linux distros is that puppy always works whatever computer Im asked to get started. It is mainly 64 bit generic computers and I learned the cheaper computer the better as these are less complicated and simpler and easier get started so my recommendation is always buy cheapest simplest computer as they will run better for a longer time, or buy two.

- Email programs is the first hazard I always try to remove. Keep email viruses on google servers, never download a email locally. A safety paradigm should immediately remove any email client. Your first reponse is that when updating daily there is no safety concerns but hackers strategy is to get one step ahead of the updates, one day the hackers will succeed so I prefer running simplest smallest safest software instead of a daily updated complicated giant software changing functions daily.

- I have not competence telling why gparted stopped working. I often go back to puppy precise and gparted in that version when bookworm64 gparted fails. My guess is user rights allthough Im running gparted as root but I dont have the linux skills. For simple tasks as partitioning bookworm gparted works most times but when a brand new harddrive just refuse to mount or even be seen by bookworm gparted i fall back to precise.

This is not the answer to the question you've asked. Just to point out that as you don't understand how Puppys work, the project you've set out on is more trouble than it's worth.

Summarizing and embellishing these post, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=5818 and https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=6526 Puppys operate in RAM having copied into RAM it's READ-ONLY system files. Only a dedicated hacker specifically targeting your computer would be able to corrupt READ-ONLY files and doing so un-decteted is virtually impossible because of the amount of activity required. On shut-down/reboot whatever is in RAM is wiped.
SaveFiles and SaveFolders are RE-WRITE. They can (usually are) employed to record changes: user-installed applications, system and application settings. But they don't have to be used. Their alternative is to create or modify either an adrv.sfs and/or a ydrv.sfs which are READ-ONLY file-systems. See the first post noted above. Or remaster Puppys READ-ONLY 'core' sfs to capture those changes. Amethyst has created an application whose modules can perform any of those operation. It is 'builtin' to F96 and BookwormPup64. A slightly older version packaged as an SFS --load when you want it, unload when you don't-- can be obtained from here, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 14#p127314 and used under any other Puppy. Alternatively, you can use wizard's remasterme2, viewtopic.php?p=117427&sid=293710ab90b1 ... 4d#p117427 to remaster the core.sfs.
[Before remastering the core.sfs you can use Puppys builtin Menu>Setup>Remove builtin packages to remove/delete any unwanted applications. [Caution: the 'nuts and bolts' used by many applications are seen as removable applications. Only remove those applications you don't want which have menu entries (e.g. abiword). When in doubt, don't remove it. Frankly, removing unwanted packages is pretty much a waste of time because of how effectively Puppys use RAM. On boot-up the contents of the core.sfs is copied into RAM-Cache in their compressed state. Only those files needed to create menu entries are then copied into ACTIVE RAM. As you use an application, only its other needed files are copied into ACTIVE RAM, dropped from ACTIVE RAM when no longer needed. On a computer having, say, 4 Gbs of RAM, removing a built-in application has practically no effect on freeing up RAM for actual use. viewtopic.php?p=4070#p4070
My preference --unless I really detest an application-- is to just edit its /usr/share/application/...desktop file so that Puppy doesn't recognize its category (add a z at the beginning of the name of the category). It will no longer have a menu entry.

Include your desired web-browser in your Remaster or (my preference) adrv.sfs . [adrv.sfs has priority over both the core.sfs and any ydrv.sfs]. The Save2SFS module of Amethyst's application can be used to update adrv.sfs as and when necessary. If you're not employing a SaveFile/Folder after boot-up no partitions will be mounted. If booted from a USB-Key, you can even unplug the Key. Downloaded files will be in /root/downloads unless otherwise specified; but in any event entirely in RAM. Before shutting down/rebooting, mount a partition and copy only those files you want to preserve into it. All other downloaded files --including junk and inadvertently downloaded malware-- will be wiped on shut-down/reboot. On the next boot-up you will, again, be booting into a new operating system entirely in RAM, copied there from pristine READ-Only file-systems on your storage media.

There are 3 small versions of Fossapup64 posted here:
viewforum.php?f=119
Less
mini
mid

One of them should be close to what you want.

What specifically are you doing and what specifically happens with using Gparted.

Start a new topic about only it.

There is something not correct, you may be doing, or something about using Gparted, you do not understand.

It has worked for me, with no issues, for many years.

Do not ever get the idea, that a drive and how it connects to the computer, is going to work 100% correctly, all the time.

For simple tasks as partitioning bookworm gparted works most times but when a brand new harddrive just refuse to mount or even be seen by bookworm gparted i fall back to precise.

This is something I would really like to look into and find the solution.

@knabbjolf

It's an old distro, oldfashioned but it could be what u are looking for.

Turbopup Xtreme. (<100 mb ISO)

https://archive.org/details/turbopup_xtreme_v1

Update and ...

Have a nice day, cheers

Features

• Zero CPU overhead and extremely low memory footprint (uses ₁₀ MB of RAM!)

• A fully-featured, streamlined and simplified desktop environment.

• Fat, bloat and junk-free

• Only the most essential system processes running by default

• Loaded with even more apps and stuff without increasing the ISO size (still under 100 MiB)

• Up to date software packages

• Tons of bugfixes, patches and improvements

• More user friendly for users coming from the 'Proprietary OS': tweaked file manager, double-click operation, PrintScreen takes snapshots, upgraded WM with rounded corners and the ability to resize windows from the top

• Distro with a relatively modern kernel that works great on ancient (and new) hardware

Your old clunkers will love this:

Image

NOTE: The screenshot is from a previous (beta) build.
The final version (1.0) of Turbopup Xtreme is a lot lighter - it uses about 10MB of RAM* with the full X.org server running

• Memory usage may vary depending on the type of motherboard used. On PCs with premium motherboards (that feature lots of integrated devices on it) the memory usage will always be higher (up to 20 MiB).

+info

https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... e09e32fe9e

It is really old too, but precise light puppy (2019) could be modded and updated too... (119mb)

https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=115843