Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Forgive me if somebody else asked/answered this, ( TOPIC search UEFI: 60+, incl text, a lot more!)
Setting up even 1 USB (DL, format, install, try boot) takes time, so to do many is many times x.

-->> How to tell if puppy ISO is BIOS or UEFI boot?!?
(most say nothing in feature section!)
if ISO name incl "...UEFI...ISO" does that mean UEFI ONLY? Both?

Example:
https://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/d ... 64-8.0.htm

Bionicpup64 Puppy 8.0----have tried BOTH 32 & 64, neither will boot.
(both have ...UEFI... in ISO name)

"Xenialpup64 7.5----notes indicate:
.....
Features include:

Kernel 4.9.58.
Ability to boot on both BIOS and UEFI enabled computers. "
2nd Q:
---->>> but NO LINKS! (how do I find/DL older versions?)
==============================
Read elsewhere:
"Unfortunately, the predominant attitude in the Puppy forum has long been "I hate Microsoft. I hate Windows. I hate UEFI. I hate Secure Boot. I hate GRUB2", which has hindered progress. Many forum members still consider BIOS+MBR+Grub4Dos to be the Puppy standard."
[LOL!]

Personally, I *LOVED* Win XP (made by MS)
BUT, I got a win 10 computer, had all kinds of problems (they don't come w manuals anymore!) *AND*, spent HOURS & HOURS trying to figure out how to BACK UP the bloody thing! (essential, when you start having problems; Reinstalled 98/XP many times) (oh, ya, they don't come w DISKS (USB?) anymore either! (GREEDY companies!))
NOW, "win 10 " computer sits UNUSED. (I talked to someone, they told me to go to LIBRARY, that didn't help either!) (win 10 computer HARDWARE, is FINE! [oh, GO ONLNE they say---but what if you CAN't?!? ) (MORE & MORE "help" is "OL ONLY" [UGH] )
[besides, *TONS* of bad/outdated/horrible advice OL, even about Linux!]
Actually, not really Linux fan either (sorry) *BUT*, can't use XP anymore, SO... limited options.
1 thing GOOD about Linux: Worst case: Go to another comp (or Lib) DL (USB now better than CD!) & REINSTALL! (ya, TRY THAT WITH WIN 10!!! [11? what's newest?])

UEFI-Secure boot: Same thing, right? [this *NEVER* ever used to be an issue!]
If you:
-have major problems, need to do a sys restore. (NO, not "system restore point" but the whole bloody thing!) [on average, 1-4x, over (yikes!) past 20+ years?]
then BOTH UEFI/"SECURE BS" can be bad! (OMG, reinstalled, but now won't boot!)
-DL X* utility, but won't boot either
-etc (many more); Last install, NO UEFI (mostly a NIGHTMARE, which is why so many hate it, WAY WAY more problems than it's worth!
[no such thing as "secure boot" anyway---if someone has PHYSICAL ACCESS to your computer (includes most PHONES) sooner or later they can get access to your data.]
[end rant]

https://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/grub/grub.html
I still have a *LOT* to learn about Grub2 (would encourage everybody---unless you're an EXPERT to read more & learn more!) *BUT* forget UEFI... Suppose you have:
EXT4 [now been around for how many years?] --->>> Which BTW, is if install almost ANY modern Linux, is the DEFAULT format. (I had to stop using some things, b/c they worked EXT3, *BUT*, *NOT*, w EXT4.)
1st ("p1) partition, is Ext4. (read a bunch of places now how this causes problems for some things)
*** MAKE NO MISTAKE, CHANGE IS HARD FOR PEOPLE ***
But, learning is almost always GOOD.
Grub2 is more complicated than GRUB. (almost it's own PROGRAMMING language! lol!)
Here's 2 hints found helpful:
1) Found out which sys you're using. (if you have old "GRUB", find a computer that has or you can put GRUB2 on.)
2) EXAMPLES. (even here, there's many good ones! )
"custom.cfg" (1 file used by GRUB2, several examples on here, used to load/start puppies)
[do a search]
also, " /etc/grub.d/40_custom" [contact me if you want a working example]
--->> You can use GRUB2, to load/boot "ISO files---including PUPPY. (no need to install!)
oK, my sys no UEFI (UGH!) so, can't give u example of that.
====================================================
Example "40_custom file" (you'll need sudo/ROOT permission)
( # ---means everything after than (1 line only) is comment)
"
#!/bin/sh
exec tail -n +3 $0
# This file provides an easy way to add custom menu entries. Simply type the
# menu entries you want to add after this comment. Be careful not to change
# the 'exec tail' line above.

menuentry "fossapup64" {
insmod ext2
set isofile="/fossapup64-9.5-less-5.iso"
loopback loop (hd0,7)$isofile
linux (loop)/vmlinuz iso-scan/filename=$isofile
initrd (loop)/initrd.gz
}
# 1 of very few working "puppies"
==========================================================
(i'm guessing all/MOST? of issues w boot, are UEFI???? [check above, how to tell from ISO?])

Hope that helps somebody w NON-UEFI sys. [and GRUB2]
(sorry longer than planned combined several things)

@tryPuppy

(sorry longer than planned combined several things)

More effective to limit your post to a single question/topic.

Read elsewhere:
"Unfortunately, the predominant attitude in the Puppy forum has long been "I hate Microsoft. I hate Windows. I hate UEFI. I hate Secure Boot. I hate GRUB2", which has hindered progress. Many forum members still consider BIOS+MBR+Grub4Dos to be the Puppy standard."
[LOL!]

Boy, that quote reeks of negative bias. Older versions of Puppy do not include some of the files required for UEFI boot and were created before that was common on hardware. Lots of Puppy users have old hardware predating UEFI. Today, Puppy users can choose between MBR or UEFI plus grub4dos or grub2. You can get lots of help here on the forum for the asking.

If you have not already done so, most of your questions can be answered by reading these two sections of the forum:
viewforum.php?f=190
viewforum.php?f=184

Stick with it, you'll be glad.

wizard

Read those, but as noted in my DETAILED reply, nothing in there about how to tell which ISOs are BIOS, UEFI, or both.

Also other Q
If you have any links to older versions. (even a little bit) please post.

I am not sure exactly when it started and which puppy distro first supported UEFI boot but I can yell you this.
Bookwormpup and KDE_Plasma_Void_CE can and will boot on UEFI and Legacy (I have personally tested this).

Another thing I want to mention is my laptop can be set to boot on UEFI, LEGACY or BOTH, where in BOTH, you can set your priority if you want legacy first or uefi. I haven't bought new motherboard in a long time but my guess is new ones are all now this way.

@tryPuppy :-

I think it's true to say that there is no Puppy produced either now, or in the distant past, that will ONLY boot with UEFI. All Puppies/Dogs/others supported here on the forum can - and will - boot from either MBR or UEFI, starting with the Tahrpups (c. 2014 - about 10 yrs ago). Prior to this, all Puppies were more or less MBR-only.

I have a 2019 HP Pavilion desktop rig - UEFI, all the way. I run a dozen Puppies on this, exclusively in "Legacy" mode. This is personal choice. I don't believe in all the fuss and hype surrounding UEFI; never have done, if the truth be known.

I believe the two files largely required for this ability are efi.img and vesamenu.c32. I could be wrong - probably am! (not unusual with me...) - but neither of these was ever present in any previous Puppies prior to the Tahrs.....and it was only the final release of Tahrpup (6.0.6) where they appeared for the first time.

If you take the Tahrpups as the beginning of this UEFI stuff, you probably won't be that far out. You can - I believe - safely say that all forum distros after this had the ability to boot either way......but that IS determined by your settings AND the way the bootloader is written, as to how it will boot for you. Tahrpup is the oldest Puppy I can boot natively on the HP, as it comes OOTB, though I have managed to get older Pups booting here by re-building them with the two above-mentioned files along with experimenting with bootloader entries. I've also taken the opportunity to upgrade kernels plus the glibc.....often necessary, because this rig needs at least a 4-series kernel for audio to show itself.

Anything from Tahrpup onwards should boot either as UEFI OR 'legacy'.

Ah, sod it. The above is probably all a load of hooey anyway. I'm no expert with this stuff.....

Mike.

jp734 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:24 pm

I am not sure exactly when it started and which puppy distro first supported UEFI boot but I can yell you this.
Bookwormpup and KDE_Plasma_Void_CE can and will boot on UEFI and Legacy (I have personally tested this).

Another thing I want to mention is my laptop can be set to boot on UEFI, LEGACY or BOTH, where in BOTH, you can set your priority if you want legacy first or uefi. I haven't bought new motherboard in a long time but my guess is new ones are all now this way.

Ok this is an ODD Question, but, hey I've ***ONLY*** gotten 3 "puppies" to boot, so .....
Once booted (YEA!) how can you tell WHICH puppy you're running? [have tried many many, about to give up;]
Bookworm is 1 I tried---and booted?!? (again, check Q above)
I'm sure like many (most?) on here don't have the latest & greatest hardware; (1 more reason for puppy, right?)

Only tried 1 Void ----Voidpup64-22---will check out Void Plasma. (isn't KDE 1 of the bigger versions/desktop? I think I tried it out b4 (normal Linux) & WAY WAY too big & many dependencies.

I explicitly asked abut about the whole "UEFI" (ugh) mentioned in the ISO filename (see post) b/c ----1/3? HALF??? a whole BUNCH of puppies say nothing about it in their summaries, but have "UEFI" in their filenames.... (SO?)
[hint: NONE, -0- of the 3 successes, have had "UEFI" in their filenames!]

Priority---I've -seen that before in BIOS (but again, have updated RAM/CPU, but MB is... 6 years old? only thing I saw, was change HARD DRIVE option. (UEFI OR Legacy. )
Nothing about that for USB boot. (is it worth it burning a CD?!? lol)

Some don't make sense,---but depends on setup/config? Example:
Bionicpup & Xenialpup both failed, however, fossapup64-9.5-less-5---WORKED!!! (they're all based off Ubuntu)
Found some that mention Bios/Legacy boot in earlier version, but can't find any LINKS!

For anyone else w this problem, Fatdog64-902---WORKS! another success: NoblePup32-24.04
[if bookworm was success (need to go back figure out name) that would be **4** ]

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 10:27 pm

@tryPuppy :-

I think it's true to say that there is no Puppy produced either now, or in the distant past, that will ONLY boot with UEFI. All Puppies/Dogs/others supported here on the forum can - and will - boot from either MBR or UEFI, starting with the Tahrpups (c. 2014 - about 10 yrs ago). Prior to this, all Puppies were more or less MBR-only.

I have a 2019 HP Pavilion desktop rig - UEFI, all the way. I run a dozen Puppies on this, exclusively in "Legacy" mode. This is personal choice. I don't believe in all the fuss and hype surrounding UEFI; never have done, if the truth be known.

I believe the two files largely required for this ability are efi.img and vesamenu.c32. I could be wrong - probably am! (not unusual with me...) - but neither of these was ever present in any previous Puppies prior to the Tahrs.....an
d it was only the final release of Tahrpup (6.0.6) where they appeared for the first time.

If you take the Tahrpups as the beginning of this UEFI stuff, you probably won't be that far out. You can - I believe - safely say that all forum distros after this had the ability to boot either way......but that IS determined by your settings AND the way the bootloader is written, as to how it will boot for you. Tahrpup is the oldest Puppy I can boot natively on the HP, as it comes OOTB, though I have managed to get older Pups booting here by re-building them with the two above-mentioned files along with experimenting with bootloader entries. I've also taken the opportunity to upgrade kernels plus the glibc.....often necessary, because this rig needs at least a 4-series kernel for audio to show itself.

Anything from Tahrpup onwards should boot either as UEFI OR 'legacy'.

Ah, sod it. The above is probably all a load of hooey anyway. I'm no expert with this stuff.....

Mike.

lol! well, 1st, Pretty sure I need an *EXPERT* (OMG 1 bad thing about Linux---WAY too much advice OL, MOST of which, is outdated, or flat out WRONG. (which helps nobody)
---->>> iF YOU ARE NOT SURE ABOUT THE TRUTH, PLEASE DON'T REPLY & BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU TELL OTHERS. If in doubt, always double check.

(best logic here---but guessing)
NONE of them tried so far give you the *OPTION* (no CHOICE @ startup) so either, 1) detected, or 2) setup 1 way. (again, maybe ISOs with "UEFI" in filename, are for UEFI boot?!? (but usually only 1 version avail)

BTW, if your rig is UEFI, how do you *KNOW* the puppies boot in Legacy mode?

Since you mention "Tahrpup", that was 1 tried & failed;
Do you have a LINK, for a T will boot LEGACY here in 2024? [asked elsewhere about older versions, never got any answers.] Most only have "latest" (which is not always greatest) version.
Check above (see "Ubuntu" in earlier post today) 1 Ver booted, Mult did not.
=================================================================
CHALLENGE FOR YOU: (Time to put your $ where your MOUTH is!)
U18Bionicpup32-8.0-uefi.iso [based off UBUNTU, so if "fossapup64-9.5-less-5.iso" WORKED, (UBUNTU) other should too, right? [unless UEFI!]
https://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/d ... 64-8.0.htm
Mentions V7 worked off Legacy, but no link. (no info for newest v)
--->>> TRY IT, if you get it to boot in LEGACY boot, copy & paste your EXACT settings here. (need to know what file to edit on USB)
found link for you:
http://ftp.nluug.nl/ftp/pub/os/Linux/di ... onicpup64/

jp734 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2024 8:24 pm

I am not sure exactly when it started and which puppy distro first supported UEFI boot but I can yell you this.
Bookwormpup and KDE_Plasma_Void_CE can and will boot on UEFI and Legacy (I have personally tested this).

Another thing I want to mention is my laptop can be set to boot on UEFI, LEGACY or BOTH, where in BOTH, you can set your priority if you want legacy first or uefi. I haven't bought new motherboard in a long time but my guess is new ones are all now this way.

Not on main page:
puppy-linux-collection

Do you have LINK?
"KDE_Plasma_Void_CE" [already tried/failed another Void version]
thanks.

KLV_Airedale
https://sourceforge.net/projects/klv-airedale/

KDE_Plasma_Void_CE
viewtopic.php?t=12080&hilit=kde_plasma_void_ce

@tryPuppy - maybe it will help us to help you if you give us exactly what the error you're getting instead of telling us it didn't work. Not all puppy will have the same boot parameters. For example. KDE Plasma will have:

linux /KDE_Plasma_Void_CE/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=be6b5414-ab8e-4e59-a068-24f10db5ead1=/KDE_Plasma_Void_CE w_changes=RAM2 net.ifnames=0

white BionicPup will have:

 linux /puppylinux/Bionic64/vmlinuz root=UUID=50d2a7d5-b9ab-4686-abe5-f07ae058edb8 psubdir=/puppylinux/Bionic64 pmedia=atahd

Also, would like to add, I have dell inspiron 660s with i5 3570 booting , bookworm, bionic, fossapup, tahrpup, klv_airedale and kde_plasma I also have a very old Dell 5150 with Pentium D that boots bookwormpup

@tryPuppy :-

Okay. Bear in mind that I state, once again, that I'm no "expert".....although I HAVE picked up a few things in over a decade with Puppy.

tryPuppy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:28 pm

(best logic here---but guessing)
NONE of them tried so far give you the *OPTION* (no CHOICE @ startup) so either, 1) detected, or 2) setup 1 way. (again, maybe ISOs with "UEFI" in filename, are for UEFI boot?!? (but usually only 1 version avail)

You're partially right, but, as you say.....misinformation is rife. It seems there's also a degree of misunderstanding here, as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The choice of whether to boot as MBR or 'legacy' is NOT determined by the OS itself. This is handled by a combination of TWO things:-

• How you have your BIOS/UEFI set-up. UEFI generally gives the choice of whether to boot in UEFI mode OR 'legacy' mode.....the choice being down to the individual (are you dual-booting with other, more 'mainstream' distros (or Windoze!) that will ONLY boot in UEFI, or are you doing so with more forgiving distros that are happy with MBR, etc?) If booting all Puppies, the choice really is down to the individual as to what they want to do.

• The boot-loader in use. Traditionally, this was always Grub4DOS with Puppy, but since machines with UEFI-only have proliferated & become far more 'common-place' in the market, shinobar's specially 'Puppy-adapted' Grub2 - via the Grub2Config utility - has become the go-to bootloader of choice for many. This includes boot mechanisms for BOTH modes - MBR OR UEFI; auto-detects what is selected in BIOS/UEFI at boot-time, and activates the appropriate boot mechanism depending on what it finds. (The user is asked to select the required modes at set-up time, prior to installation, and the utility installs the appropriate mechanisms/writes the appropriate boot menu entries accordingly.)

This is why you are not going to see different versions of the ISO.....i.e., an 'MBR' build and/or a 'UEFI' build. It simply isn't necessary, because the OS is identical regardless of boot 'mode'.....and most - if not all - 'current' Pups are built in what's called 'hybrid' mode, capable of running on anything. MBR/UEFI selection is essentially determined by what YOU, the user, choose.....and the rest is all handled by the bootloader mechanisms.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

tryPuppy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 1:28 pm

BTW, if your rig is UEFI, how do you *KNOW* the puppies boot in Legacy mode?

That's simple.....because I've instructed the UEFI to ignore its 'native' mode, and to boot in 'Legacy' mode instead. How can it do any other than follow the instructions it's been given? Computers are very good at following instructions TO THE LETTER. 99% of foul-ups are nearly always down to lack of understanding how to do things the correct way.......though the way Windows purposely fouls things up with every update gives the lie to that, in many people's eyes..!

(Do realise, Linux is NOT like the Redmond juggernaut, which frequently completely re-writes bootloader mechanisms to suit itself.....especially in a dual-boot scenario with both Windows AND Linux. If this happened in Linux, there would be uproar like you could NEVER imagine, primarily to do with Linux abandoning its principles in favour of capitalist pursuits. Frankly, I don't see it happening.....despite Red Hat's efforts to make it so. Too many people are actively invested in keeping the status-quo "as-is".)

Mike.

I did this for myself. Hope it helps. The last one is surprising but it works for me and that's how mine is setup right now. You can read the two page thread here: viewtopic.php?t=12271

By the way. I haven't answered your question. I setup my conky to tell what puppy I'm running but you can also run PupSysInfo and it will tell you what version of puppy you are running. Somewhere at the bottom of the screenshot, you'll see

Operating System:
Distro Name: BookwormPup64 10.0.7 (x86_64)

@tryPuppy

How to tell if puppy ISO is BIOS or UEFI boot?

In my opnion, it is not realy inportant which puppy ISO is BIOS or UEFI boot.
The principal of puppy linux is frugal install. The most important is you choose the right boot manager. Puppy frugal will boot on both(bios/uefi).

I hate GRUB2

Unfortunately you hate grub2, which grub2 can be install on both(bios/uefi) to boot (all) frugal(s).