How to configure dual boot with bookworm and fossapup on internal NVMe [SOLVED]

[Governor]

@bigpup @geo_c @williwaw @Clarity @mikewalsh
This is a continuation of the discussion from this thread:
https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 19#p124519
This is my nvme boot menu.

NVMe boot menu.JPG (52.03 KiB) Viewed 816 times

The fossapup entry is by accident. It turns out I have this folder /mnt/nvme0n1p4/puppylivecdbuild. I tried choosing fossapup on boot and it was a crippled version of fossapup because the adrv and fdrv files were missing. I added the missing files from my fossapup boot stick along with a save folder and a backup folder. This fossapup menu item now boots like the boot stick does. Miraculous.

In addition to using the desktop 'Save' to save to the current 'save' folder, I want to have the dialog box on OS-exit where I can choose the name and location of a new or existing 'Save' folder. How can I accomplish this for both bookworm and fossapup while maintaining the numbered boot choices?
Thanks.

[geo_c]

@bigpup @geo_c @williwaw @Clarity @mikewalsh
In addition to using the desktop 'Save' to save to the current 'save' folder, I want to have the dialog box on OS-exit where I can choose the name and location of a new or existing 'Save' folder.

You can only save to the save folder you are currently booted into. If you are running in ram no save, on exit you can save to a new save file, but not to an existing one if you aren't running from it.

To make a new one from a running save, you use pupsavebackup and rename the backup to a new active save folder.

All of those folders in the system directory should come up as choices on next boot.

[geo_c]

@bigpup @geo_c @williwaw @Clarity @mikewalsh
This is a continuation of the discussion from this thread:
https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 19#p124519
This is my nvme boot menu.
NVMe boot menu.JPG
Miraculous.

As long as all the files are in the directory and uncorrupted, and as long as the boot stanza correctly points to it, it will boot and run. So you got the pieces put together correctly and it booted.

As far as dual booting from nvme and thumbdrive, here's where you want to be organized.

The nvme I presume will have a bootloader installed, as well as the thumb drive. Your bios will determine which one gets used first. Then either one can boot pups located on both the nvme and the USB thumb drive, as long as you include stanzas on both the bootloaders.

So the thumb drive drive bootloader can contain grub stanzas to boot the pups on the nvme, and vice versa.

Basically you can have the exact same set of boot stanzas on both bootloaders, and if you boot with the thumb drive the bootloader is able to boot a pup on nvme, and then that's if that's all that the thumb drive is doing, it can be removed.

Where I would have caution about getting into a confusing situation is in loading savefiles. You could be running into a situation where you are booting from the thumb drive, running from the pup system files on the thumbdrive, but loading a savefile from the nvme. In that scenario you would have both drives locked. It would be unecessary to do it that way also. Since you can include stanzas to run and load the same file from the same location.

So you might want to think through that setup carefully.

You should get choices for saves to load on boot based on boot parameters in the stanzas that tell the initrd where to look for save files to load.

No turnkey answer in this response. As you might need to figure out exactly what choices you want before trying to configure it.

[Governor]

@bigpup @geo_c @williwaw @Clarity @mikewalsh
This is a continuation of the discussion from this thread:
https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 19#p124519
This is my nvme boot menu.
NVMe boot menu.JPG
Miraculous.

As long as all the files are in the directory and uncorrupted, and as long as the boot stanza correctly points to it, it will boot and run. So you got the pieces put together correctly and it booted.

As far as dual booting from nvme and thumbdrive, here's where you want to be organized.

The nvme I presume will have a bootloader installed, as well as the thumb drive. Your bios will determine which one gets used first. Then either one can boot pups located on both the nvme and the USB thumb drive, as long as you include stanzas on both the bootloaders.

So the thumb drive drive bootloader can contain grub stanzas to boot the pups on the nvme, and vice versa.

Basically you can have the exact same set of boot stanzas on both bootloaders, and if you boot with the thumb drive the bootloader is able to boot a pup on nvme, and then that's if that's all that the thumb drive is doing, it can be removed.

Where I would have caution about getting into a confusing situation is in loading savefiles. You could be running into a situation where you are booting from the thumb drive, running from the pup system files on the thumbdrive, but loading a savefile from the nvme. In that scenario you would have both drives locked. It would be unecessary to do it that way also. Since you can include stanzas to run and load the same file from the same location.

So you might want to think through that setup carefully.

You should get choices for saves to load on boot based on boot parameters in the stanzas that tell the initrd where to look for save files to load.

No turnkey answer in this response. As you might need to figure out exactly what choices you want before trying to configure it.

Currently, I have 2 main boot sticks. One with, fossapup64_9.5 and one with bookworm64_10.0.6.

I can now also boot both of these operating systems exclusively from my nvme drive using no boot stick. This was a milestone, and something I can work with because my configuration and settings are reinstated on each boot!

It was a good idea to give the user an option of where to save the 'save' folder on shutdown. Unfortunately, the idea falls short because it was not carried beyond first boot.
On shutdown subsequent to first boot, I am missing the options:
1) Save to the current session to itself as usual.
Or
2) Save the current session to a new foldername and/or a new location.

Can this be implemented?
Thanks.

[geo_c]

Unfortunately, the idea falls short because it was not carried beyond first boot.

Yes it was.

You can not save to a savefolder without being booted in that same save folder. And the reason for that is simple, when you boot and load a save folder, you are mounted to it, the only thing being stored in RAM are your changes to that save folder. When you use the save icon to save, those changes are merged into the mounted savefolder.

So you can't save to a folder you are not currently running. It would result in breaking things if the two save folders were not identical to begin with.

But you can make a new save folder by using pupsave backup. Then renaming it.

You might not see an option to save changes at shutdown, since you are already running in the folder and can make a save at anytime before choosing shutdown.

However I think there is an option, a check box somewhere in the settings, that when active, prompts on shutdown to save changes in ram to the current running folder before shutting down. I'd have to boot up a pup to find where the option is located.

[williwaw]

something I can work with...

nice to see that nvme in service

Can this be implemented?
Thanks.

it would be a complex dialog with multiple choices and instructions that would undoubtedly confuse new users. As it is, many "apps" and dialogs obscure what are sometimes simple configurations.

Take the bootloader app function for instance. running the app after the initial bootloader install only copys a few lines into grub.cfg, the copy having a path and a name changed. It is simpler and more the unix way to understand the needed edits and do them your self with a text editor.

The same with savesfolders,
If you want to restore to a previous known good configuration, copy your backup, give it a new name and reboot. after you are rebooted you can delete the unwanted save.

[Governor]

Unfortunately, the idea falls short because it was not carried beyond first boot.

Yes it was.

You can not save to a savefolder without being booted in that same save folder. And the reason for that is simple, when you boot and load a save folder, you are mounted to it, the only thing being stored in RAM are your changes to that save folder. When you use the save icon to save, those changes are merged into the mounted savefolder.

So you can't save to a folder you are not currently running. It would result in breaking things if the two save folders were not identical to begin with.

But you can make a new save folder by using pupsave backup. Then renaming it.

You might not see an option to save changes at shutdown, since you are already running in the folder and can make a save at anytime before choosing shutdown.

However I think there is an option, a check box somewhere in the settings, that when active, prompts on shutdown to save changes in ram to the current running folder before shutting down. I'd have to boot up a pup to find where the option is located.

But isn't a backup folder a save folder? It shows up in my boot menu same as my save folders, and I can choose it to boot from same as the save folders.
I want to be able to choose it on shutdown so it does not get saved automatically. This would save the trouble of the renaming routine you mention.

[geo_c]

But isn't a backup folder a save folder? It shows up in my boot menu same as my save folders, and I can choose it to boot from same as the save folders.
I want to be able to choose it on shutdown so it does not get saved automatically. This would save the trouble of the renaming routine you mention.

Yes, you're right, a backup savefolder is just a savefolder with the name BKP attached. You don't have to rename it to boot into it in many pups, but some pups won't show it as a bootup choice if it has the BKP naming scheme.

I don't really understand what you mean about choosing it at shutdown. That all has to do with what kind of boot you're doing, in other words the "pupmode"

If you're saving changes to your mounted save folder as you go with a desktop icon, then changes won't be automatically saved at shutdown. You have to tell it to save in that mode using the icon. But it's possible you have it configured to autosave, see this: viewtopic.php?t=6526

If you are writing to the save in real time with no save icon. All changes are already written when you shutdown. So you won't get a choice, as they will already be written.

Regardless of which method you're using, it will only be writing changes to the current savefolder, the one you're booted into. To make a completely new one you use pupsavebackup.

[williwaw]

choose links in the top bar of any page > choose "Puppy Search Engine" in the dropdown
"pupmode" as a search term pointed me to this interesting page
viewtopic.php?t=9384

[mikewalsh]

@Governor :-

But isn't a backup folder a save folder? It shows up in my boot menu same as my save folders, and I can choose it to boot from same as the save folders.
I want to be able to choose it on shutdown so it does not get saved automatically. This would save the trouble of the renaming routine you mention.

Sounds like an odd arrangement to me. Backup directories should never be in a location where Puppy will find them at boot-time.... You don't WANT Puppy to be able to locate your 'backup' copies and attempt to use them when it boots. That's definitely a "no-go".

Although I DO keep backup copies of all save-folders in the kennels actually ON the system - automatically backed-up, once a week, via a script running from a cronjob - I've ensured that they're "buried" deep enough that Puppy doesn't "see' them at boot-time. (Remember that Puppy will search two 'layers' deep to locate files.....but that's as far as it goes).

Then once a month, the 'Backups' directory gets copied across to an external USB 3.0 HDD.

Obviously, it's your choice as to where you store them, but even here in Puppyland there IS a "best practice" as to how things ought to be done......for your own benefit, if nothing else.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From what I can see of it, you're attempting to take 'shortcuts' for everything, right from the "off". I know my own routine of how quickly I can set new Puppies up - with adding-in all the portable apps the way I do - can seem to some like the perfect way of doing things. It IS.....but what you haven't seen is the weeks and weeks of hard work I put into figuring out a construction routine (and the best way of doing this), followed by all the work that went into putting together the entire collection. And that was with plenty of input, suggestions & advice from the rest of the community, too.

It was a lengthy spell of hard - though enjoyable - work, at the time. But it's paid-off in spades the last 2-3 years.....

There's no substitute for putting the time & effort in to set things up correctly right at the start with each new Pup. Having done that, THEN you'll find everything "falls into place" further down the line.

Mike.

[Governor]

@Governor :-

But isn't a backup folder a save folder? It shows up in my boot menu same as my save folders, and I can choose it to boot from same as the save folders.
I want to be able to choose it on shutdown so it does not get saved automatically. This would save the trouble of the renaming routine you mention.

Sounds like an odd arrangement to me. Backup directories should never be in a location where Puppy will find them at boot-time.... You don't WANT Puppy to be able to locate your 'backup' copies and attempt to use them when it boots. That's definitely a "no-go".

I don't see a problem with keeping my backups in the same place as 'save' folders. If something is wrong with the 'save' I boot from, I can just reboot and choose a backup from the menu.

Although I DO keep backup copies of all save-folders in the kennels actually ON the system - automatically backed-up, once a week, via a script running from a cronjob - I've ensured that they're "buried" deep enough that Puppy doesn't "see' them at boot-time. (Remember that Puppy will search two 'layers' deep to locate files.....but that's as far as it goes).

Then once a month, the 'Backups' directory gets copied across to an external USB 3.0 HDD.

Would you be willing to share your backup script with a concise tutorial? That would be super.

Obviously, it's your choice as to where you store them, but even here in Puppyland there IS a "best practice" as to how things ought to be done......for your own benefit, if nothing else.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From what I can see of it, you're attempting to take 'shortcuts' for everything, right from the "off". I know my own routine of how quickly I can set new Puppies up - with adding-in all the portable apps the way I do - can seem to some like the perfect way of doing things. It IS.....but what you haven't seen is the weeks and weeks of hard work I put into figuring out a construction routine (and the best way of doing this), followed by all the work that went into putting together the entire collection. And that was with plenty of input, suggestions & advice from the rest of the community, too.

It was a lengthy spell of hard - though enjoyable - work, at the time. But it's paid-off in spades the last 2-3 years.....

There's no substitute for putting the time & effort in to set things up correctly right at the start with each new Pup. Having done that, THEN you'll find everything "falls into place" further down the line.

Mike.

I don't want to put in a lot of time and effort when others have already done the heavy lifting. I noticed some Linux users think that new users should not have it easy and must go through all the heavy lifting, like they did themselves. I disagree with that philosophy. When others have paved the way before me, I am grateful. I have no special feelings for the OS, or a need to reinvent the wheel. I just want the OS to be a reliable platform that enables me to do what I need to do.

So far, I have separate boot sticks with Bookworm, Fossapup, Airedale, and EasyOS, and I have a Ventoy boot stick with several other Puppy and non-Puppy Linux versions. I managed to get a dual boot with Bookworm and Fossapup on my NVMe drive, which kind of happened by accident, but was quite a pleasant surprise. I primarily use Bookworm now, but when I need to use Audacity, I reboot into Fossapup because the Audacity version I use won't work in Bookworm. IMO, Bookworm has fewer issues than Fossapup. On the NVNe drive, it takes about 30 seconds to get to the GUI. On the boot stick, it takes about 120 seconds. That's a big deal.

PS. Thanks again for the portable apps. They have been a lifesaver for me!

[Governor]

choose links in the top bar of any page > choose "Puppy Search Engine" in the dropdown
"pupmode" as a search term pointed me to this interesting page
viewtopic.php?t=9384

I am using PUPMODE=13 on my internal drive.

[geo_c]

Looks like you can mark this topic [SOLVED]

[geo_c]

@Governor,

Now that you have two pups booting from two different drives, and you have it apparently setup consistently.

You at anytime can install more pups on those drives just by copying the files in the iso to a folder on same drive and level as the other two pups, and then adding boot stanzas to your existing grub.cfg to boot them.

So the only thing limiting the number of OS's is drive and partition space.

[Governor]

@Governor,

Now that you have two pups booting from two different drives, and you have it apparently setup consistently.

You at anytime can install more pups on those drives just by copying the files in the iso to a folder on same drive and level as the other two pups, and then adding boot stanzas to your existing grub.cfg to boot them.

So the only thing limiting the number of OS's is drive and partition space.

I am not clear on the boot stanzas. Could you point to a reference and some examples?
Thanks.

[bigpup]

I don't see a problem with keeping my backups in the same place as 'save' folders. If something is wrong with the 'save' I boot from, I can just reboot and choose a backup from the menu.

I guess you have never had a specific location, partition, or drive get corrupted or fail.

Backups are suppose to be located, where anything going wrong where the original is located, is not going to affect the backup.

At best have it on a different drive.
At least on a different partition.

You seem to want to use backups as a different save to use.
If that is your way to use them.
Sure put them in the same place as the original save.
But that is what they are. Just a different save to use.
They can be corrupted and fail, just like a normal save can be, when you use it.

A backup should be copied to replace a broken save.
Then it is still a good backup of the save, to use again, if needed.