Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

It's that time again folks. I received the "paperweight" warning from Windows today when I used my laptop (end of support for W10 - 7th gen cpu not supported on W11)

Specs: i7 7700HQ : 16gb RAM : Intel/NVidia hybrid (optimus)

I still would like to dual boot it even if W10 will no longer be supported. I have ProgeCAD (AutoCAD knockoff) that I used for drafting/engineering project design, so would be installing grub EFI of course.

What's my best Puppy option?

Which build of Windows 10 is installed?

Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025.

The current version, 22H2.

Why not, just install WSL and install a Linux OS?

@jp734

W10 - 7th gen cpu not supported on W11)

What's my best Puppy option?

You've got lots of options.

Windows:
1. Just keep on using W10 even past the end of support. Down side, no updates and software companies won't be updating for W10. This could be several years or maybe makes no difference for your use.

2. Install W11, there are several ways to do it on "unsupported" hardware. I'm using it on a Intel Q9400 from 2008.

Puppy:
1. Install on a bootable USB and "duaL boot" from that. This is easiest.
2. Repartiton the hard drive and install Puppy on a ext3 or 4 partition + install grub2 boot loader.

Try Bookworm64 10.0.6 for starters, if using a USB it's easy to experiment.

wizard

wizard wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 1:14 pm

a ext3 or 4 partition

ext4 should be much faster than ext3 (thanks to delayed allocation and other features), and I see no reason to pick ext3 over ext4. Puppy is pretty much the only distro that still offers ext3.

@Jasper - i dont think i like the idea WSL but will not scratch it off the list

@wizard - I intend to keep using W10. I have programs I use for drafting. Just concerned about security. But I'm really curious how you were able to install W11 on a 16 year old cpu. You really are a wizard

My biggest concern if im going to install puppy on the hard drive is the gpu driver. Ive never played with the hybrid graphics. All of my linux PCs are desktops with old cards

But for now, I have a multi-boot thumb drive with fossapup64 and other OS I'm curious about. I'll put Bookworm as well

@jp734

curious how you were able to install W11 on a 16 year old cpu. You really are a wizard

Naw, most of the time I'm just good at following instructions. I did mine back when MS did the the first official release 21H2. Took the data file out of the W11 ISO and swapped it into a W10 ISO and used that to install. All the hardware checks we gone.

Check on the internet for some easier methods, here is one:

https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube ... QQQsc,st:0

wizard

Fossapup64 9.5 is really starting to show it's age.

F96-CE_4 is the updated version of it.

But for your hardware the latest version of Puppy is BookwormPup64 10.0.6 will work very well.
It has the latest updates to Puppy Linux and features the other older versions do not have and never will.

About laptops with dual graphics like yours.

Puppy is not setup to use both graphics hardware.
It will boot and use the internal graphics built into the CPU.
Puppy so far is not trying to support the other graphics hardware that may be in the laptop.

If you really want it to try and use both.

Maybe this topic will help:
viewtopic.php?t=1550
Posts in this topic tell how people got it working in Puppy Linux.
.

Found this online. Is this true? Would it make sense to go with Jammy then?
Bionic Beaver - supported until April 2028
Bookworm - May 2028
Focal Fossa - April 2030
Jammy Jellyfish - April 2032
Noble Numbat - April 2036

"Supported" means "the vendor supplies security and stability updates". Puppy doesn't have a mechanism to apply these updates, so "supported" or not shouldn't matter to a Puppy user. Even if the vendor supplies updates until 2032, a Puppy built from Ubuntu 24.04 packages in 2024 won't get any updates and will be stuck with the same bugs and security issues until 2029.

What does matter is compatibility - if your Puppy is too old to run an application you want, you need a newer Puppy. BookwormPup64 has much newer packages compared to any Puppy based on Ubuntu 20.04, and should be a much better choice if you want applications to work.

@dimkr

If Peebee decides to update his Noble Numbat x86 build on/after 15 August 2024, this should include updates made up to this point?

A similar question was posted here by me which you answered:

viewtopic.php?t=10836

To apply these updates, one would need to use Woof-CE to incorporate them in creating an ISO for release.

Rockedge has commented that he has continued working on his "Super" FP96-CE using Woof-CE.

viewtopic.php?p=121819#p121819

a Puppy built from Ubuntu 24.04 packages in 2024 won't get any updates and will be stuck with the same bugs and security issues until 2029.

Jasper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2024 9:46 am

If Peebee decides to update his Noble Numbat x86 build on/after 15 August 2024, this should include updates made up to this point?

Yes, but these 32-bit builds are a mix of Ubuntu and Debian packages, and the Debian packages will stop getting updates before the Ubuntu 24.04 EOL date. In addition, they contain some old .pet packages which don't get any updates.

Hi all

A more uptodate distro chart, with extended EOL here.

Regards

Pika

Puppy doesn't have a mechanism to apply these updates, so "supported" or not shouldn't matter to a Puppy user.

Point taken. And from what everyone is saying BookwormPup seem to be the best choice.

I do graphics a lot, and I'm assuming I'll be missing on performance since puppy will only use the intel on my hybrid gpu. I still havent checked the link @bigpup shared but I will (thanks bigpup).

I might end up installing kubuntu 24 to take advantage of the gpu...but of course, puppy will be as well.

wizard wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 5:17 pm

@jp734

curious how you were able to install W11 on a 16 year old cpu. You really are a wizard

Naw, most of the time I'm just good at following instructions. I did mine back when MS did the the first official release 21H2. Took the data file out of the W11 ISO and swapped it into a W10 ISO and used that to install. All the hardware checks we gone.

Check on the internet for some easier methods, here is one:

https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube ... QQQsc,st:0

wizard

@wizard I watched the video and it seem pretty straightforward and it should work unless Microsoft already stopped the hack (I won't be surprised). If I do this though, it will remove the dual boot and solely run Windows on the system, won't it? Not a huge problem. Can always add

@jp734

it will remove the dual boot and solely run Windows

Seems like the same guy did a video on how to do it as an upgrade. Also, nothing stops you from installing v21h2, then just disable automatic updates.

Personally I'd do a clean install. If your drive just has Pups, all you have to do is reinstall grub and it will find them. If you have other LInux, you want to copy your existing grug.cfg and then might have to manually edit the new grub.

wizard

Finally got a chance to try and install BookwormPup on my laptop. Ran Grub2Conf and got an error message boot flag not found on my nvme ssd when there is clearly one.

nvme is partitioned into 4. P1 as EFI, Windows 10 on P3 I believe. Can't remember exactly as I'm using a different PC at the moment but thought I'd post. I can edit this tomorrow with more details.

I tried installing Kubuntu at first because of their claim on how easy it was to make hybrid gpu work but also wasn't able to install because it needs EFI partition to have 300MB at least and it's only 260MB

If you are going to have multiple OS's on this computers internal drive.

Puppy Linux needs to be the last one you install. (as frugal install)

For Windows 10, make sure it is completely shutdown normally.
Do not shutdown in any other way.
Especially hibernation. This will not release complete control of the drive if used for shutdown.

The boot loader Puppy installs is the only one that will get properly configured for booting Puppy.
But it may or may not make correct entries to boot other OS's.
It should make a good one for Windows 10.
Other OS's it tries it's best.

Ran Grub2Conf and got an error message boot flag not found on my nvme ssd when there is clearly one.
nvme is partitioned into 4. P1 as EFI

Provide image of what Gparted shows for this partition. (P1)

Hey @bigpup Good day to you and thanks for the response. I tried installing Kubuntu first and what you said was exactly what I planned to do. Below is how my drives are partitioned. Planning on installing linux on Disk-1 (431Gb) I created. When I used GParted, Disk-0 EFI partition has a "boot" label

If you are trying to install to what is shown as sda drive.
With partitions sda1, sda2, and sda3.

Sda1 needs to be used for the location of the boot loader.

But it is not a properly made partition for Grub2config to use.

It needs to be formatted fat32 and flagged boot, esp.

This sda1 partition is what seems to be a special partition used by Windows.

So this drive does not have a boot, esp partition to use.

Windows OS install should have made a 1st partition like the P1 partition on nvmeOn1 drive.
What version of Windows OS is on it?
.
.
On the other drive nvmeOn1

Partition P1 is correct to use as a boot partition and have the boot loader installed on it.
But I would remove the hidden flag from it.
Only have boot , esp flags.

The hidden flag is most likely keeping Grub2config from seeing it.

@bigpup I have Win10 on this laptop. Removing "hidden" flag did not work. There are other options such as: bios_grub, bls_boot and legacy_boot but not sure if that will mess up Windows. Will do some research on those before attempting

@jp734

If you are currently using Grub2config 2.0.1, you might be interested in the recently updated version 2.0.2 which provides improved compatibility with NVME/eMMC/GPT partitions.

This update will be available in the upcoming BW64 10.0.7 but (if interested) you can also find Grub2config 2.0.2 at the following link:

viewtopic.php?p=115435#p115435

radky wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 3:05 am

@jp734

If you are currently using Grub2config 2.0.1, you might be interested in the recently updated version 2.0.2 which provides improved compatibility with NVME/eMMC/GPT partitions.

This update will be available in the upcoming BW64 10.0.7 but (if interested) you can also find Grub2config 2.0.2 at the following link:

viewtopic.php?p=115435#p115435

Finally detected the boot partition using the ,pet provided but failed to register Puppy boot loader. Here's the log. At the very bottom, it says "EFI variables are not supported on this system"

/sbin/grub2config 
version 2.0.2
Wed Jul  3 06:24:59 AM GMT 2024
splash start Searching.
nvme0n1|256GB:__SAMSUNG_MZVPW256HEGL-000L7
sda|1000GB:_ATA_ST1000LM035-1RK1
sdb|16.4GB:_PNY_USB_2.0_FD(Removable)
3
splash end Searching.
Choosed:nvme0n1
Checking nvme0n1...
Boot Partition:nvme0n1p1(vfat)
nvme0n1:true
sda:false
sdb:false
SEARCHPARTS
/dev/nvme0n1p1|vfat|266240
/dev/nvme0n1p3|ntfs|248751104
/dev/nvme0n1p4|ntfs|1024000
PUPPY_DEPTH=2
splash progress Searching.
PUPDIRS on nvme0n1p1:
PUPDIRS on nvme0n1p3:
PUPDIRS on nvme0n1p4:
MYPUPPY=sdb1/bookworm/puppy_dpupbw64_10.0.6.sfs
PUPPIES:
FULLINSTS:
WININSTS:
BOOTMGRS:
WINEFIS:
nvme0n1p1/EFI/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
LINEFIS:
TOPEFIS:
nvme0n1p1/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi
COMPAT_MENU=2
splash end Searching.
Checking nvme0n1...
splash start Installing. Please wait...
Old menu '/mnt/nvme0n1p1/grub.cfg' is backuped as 'grub-prev.cfg'.
Writing... /mnt/nvme0n1p1/grub.cfg

TODRIVE:nvme0n1
Writing menu completed.
Checking nvme0n1...
TOPDIR:/mnt/nvme0n1p1
Extracting /usr/lib/grub2config/grub2pup-efi.tar.xz...
Installing UEFI bootloader on /dev/nvme0n1, /mnt/nvme0n1p1 ...
./
./EFI/
./EFI/Puppy/
./EFI/Puppy/grubx64.efi
./EFI/Puppy/mmx64.efi
./EFI/Puppy/grub.cfg
./EFI/Puppy/bootx64.efi
./puppy.cer
'/mnt/nvme0n1p1/EFI/Puppy' -> '/mnt/nvme0n1p1/EFI/boot'
'/mnt/nvme0n1p1/EFI/Puppy/grubx64.efi' -> '/mnt/nvme0n1p1/EFI/boot/grubx64.efi'
'/mnt/nvme0n1p1/EFI/Puppy/mmx64.efi' -> '/mnt/nvme0n1p1/EFI/boot/mmx64.efi'
'/mnt/nvme0n1p1/EFI/Puppy/grub.cfg' -> '/mnt/nvme0n1p1/EFI/boot/grub.cfg'
'/mnt/nvme0n1p1/EFI/Puppy/bootx64.efi' -> '/mnt/nvme0n1p1/EFI/boot/bootx64.efi'
EFI variables are not supported on this system.
Failed to register Puppy boot loader.
splash end

jp734 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 10:33 am

EFI variables are not supported on this system.
Failed to register Puppy boot loader.

@jp734

This message is generated by grub2config 2.02 (line 1795) when the call to efibootmgr fails (i.e., EFI variables are not supported on this system).

The following link could be helpful:

viewtopic.php?p=119602#p119602

Maybe other forum members will also reply.

running the first command from the link gave me an error: "modprobe: ERROR: could not insert "efivarfs': No such device"

If EasyOS was able to install grub bootloader, maybe I'll go that route first to have grub then add Bookworm after

@jp734

When booting BW64 10.0.6 in UEFI mode, the default kernel (6.1.76) supports EFI Runtime Services:

CONFIG_EFIVAR_FS=m

Are you booting in UEFI or Legacy BIOS mode ?

The following link may be helpful:

https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... uch-device

This would be so much easier using the Multi Installer from the Daedalus Starter Kit project.

radky wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2024 5:32 pm

@jp734

When booting BW64 10.0.6 in UEFI mode, the default kernel (6.1.76) supports EFI Runtime Services:

CONFIG_EFIVAR_FS=m

Are you booting in UEFI or Legacy BIOS mode ?

The following link may be helpful:

https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... uch-device

That's it @radky . My laptop was set to boot on both UEFI and legacy but it was set to boot legacy first. After switching it UEFI first, the modprobe efivarfs command worked and was able to install grub and boot bookworm

EDIT: Changed title to reflect the actual problem we fixed

Link to the Daedalus Starter Kit rcrsn51 mentioned and discussion about it. viewtopic.php?p=3615&sid=7a853c669186f1 ... ad15#p3615. As noted there, it can be used under Puppys.

I haven't tried it. But knowing rcrsn51's capabilities, it looks promising. When I get a chance I'll have to explore. On some computers I've found that neither the current versions of frugalpup nor grub2config were satisfactory. While planning eventually to customize the grub.cfg of an operating system such as Kubuntu to include Puppys [have to relearn how-to do that] I'm currently booting Puppys having used grub2config to write a boot-loader to a USB-Key. After boot-up, I can unplug the Key. Not bad with a stationary desktop, but an annoyance with a laptop.