Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Hi. New member with puppy on a usb. Have set this up in the hope of accessing my bank account, Trademe (New Zealand), Aliexpress checkout and a number of other sites that all display a blank screen when I attempt to log in to their respective services or check out after purchase. Other websites unaffected, i.e. browsing is all OK. Have used another computer on another internet connection with the same result. Can use different versions of puppy and different browsers until I find one that works, but only for a couple of days then blank page again. Gut feeling is the blank "page" is some sort of overlayer or mask, with the actual page hidden underneath: but only a guess so may be way off. Wondering if anyone has had this issue. To confirm, changing internet connection, os and browser elicits occasional and temporary access. Main computer is Acer 3000 running XP which still does everything I need of it and I cannot afford to get on the "update to all the latest bells and whistles" treadmill. Cheers, Stephen

To Puppy Linux!

Always need to know the exact Puppy version you are using????

Are you using the latest version of the browsers you tried??
What browser and it's version??

When I have this kind of issue it is caused by the Web Browser I am using.

Here in the United States, Google Chrome browser seems to be what they want you to use or their web page will not display correctly.
Sometimes Firefox browser will work, but not always.

The web site for my internet service provider, will only allow me to log in and make payments, if I am using Chrome browser

If you can get anything displayed about what exact browser is recommended by the bank to use.
That is probably the answer.

If the bank has a phone number to call for customer service.
Call and ask what is causing this problem I am having?

Hi. I've copied from the bank website:
If you’re not able to update your device's software to the minimum requirements for the Westpac One® online banking app, then your device will no longer be supported. You can still access your online banking services on your device’s internet browser.
We support these operating systems:
Microsoft® Windows® 10 or newer
Mac OS 10.12 Sierra
Android 7.0 or newer
iOS 15.0 or newer
We support these browsers:
Microsoft® Edge (new 2020 version)
Firefox (latest version)
Google Chrome (latest version)
Safari 12 and upwards
That said, I have tried Chromium and Palemoon in Puppy with temporary success. The Puppy versions I have used are Bionic Pup, Upup, Noblepup, S15Pup, along with Coreplus, Peppermint, Jessie and, I think, Bullseye. Currently trying with Xenial Pup.

The landing page for the bank is https://bank.westpac.co.nz/wone/app.html which shows as a blank rather than a page with boxes to put login, password. etc. By comparison, if I go to the main Westpac page, click on login, then select "Business" or "Corporate," rather than "Personal" then the login page displays correctly - except I am neither a business nor corporate customer. I assume the blank page is a subdomain: possibly the login pages that work are different subdomains.

On some login pages, such as "warehouse mobile" which is https://myaccount.warehousemobile.co.nz/app/#/ in my address bar, the login page is a blank black page. I have had to change my mobile internet provider.

I get it that banks and so on can be a bit self righteous and expect the masses to attain their high standards of tech savviness but that does not seem to be a reasonable approach for what is essentially a public service, albeit a financially rewarding one for the banks. In Australia they have taken to calling Westpac, which is aussi owned, Pestwac. The name was just begging for that sort of attention!

Still wondering if there is a Pup that can tango with these left footers.

Stephen

@Stephen - I couldn't find specs on the ACER 3000, but if it came with XP, it may only support 32bit OSes. Official Firefox 32bit is here: https://download.mozilla.org/?product=f ... 4wLjAuMA..

Firefox on a 64bit puppy works with Westpac here in oz. I use s15pup64 (which you have to add firefox to) & F96-CE4 (64bit) is a good choice (has Firefox & updates on first use, but is 538mb). A lightweight 64bit pup with Firefox you could try (266mb): https://archive.org/download/puppy_linu ... -mid-4.iso
.

@Stephen

Welcome.

I know it might seem like a kick in the teeth and doesn't help with your problem.

just wanted to let you know that with my OS (Signature) and Firefox V122.0.1 (32bit) able to:

.

.

Good luck in resolving your problem.

Using BookwormPup64 10.0.6 Puppy version.

The Firefox browser it comes with, updated to latest version.

Both of your links display fore me.

The bank one did take a little time to fully display.
At first it did look like a blank page.

with ungoogled chromium I also get the blank page
but as the pages times out, an icon becomes newly visible in the addressbar and clicking on it offers to "install app".
installing didnt seem to work at first, unless
I clicked on the app settings and was dropped int a setting menu where I allowed extra stuff like third party cookies, popups etc

If you’re not able to update your device's software to the minimum requirements for the Westpac One® online banking app, then your device will no longer be supported. You can still access your online banking services on your device’s internet browser..........

We support these browsers:
Microsoft® Edge (new 2020 version)
Firefox (latest version)
Google Chrome (latest version)

"latest version" probally means you will need to update frequently. some puppies or browser portables support updating better than others

Thanks everyone for the replies and advice.
I did wonder about the role of Google. When I approached the bank, their question was,"Is Trademe affected also?" Seems both logins are based on Google.
Does this mean I cannot use a pet without google to login?
Have copied all the links to work thru. Really appreciate the help - my absence for a few days means there is a lot to do here but will update/check in from time to time.
Stephen

Does this mean I cannot use a pet without google to login?

What pet?????

Best advice is use Google Chrome browser to access the bank web site.
Keep it updated.

We are Google.
Resistance is futile!

Firefox may also work if you also keep it updated.

But I bet the bank is making sure Google Chrome always works.

Note:
Web sites have to have different settings, to allow different browsers to fully work, on their web sites.
The person that keeps the web site functional.
They have to be willing to put in the time, to make it 100% working, with multiple different browsers.
I am noticing more and more, they just make sure Google Chrome works 100%.
Maybe also Microsoft Edge browser.

That is what this is spouse to be telling you.
What browsers we are trying to keep working 100%, to display and use, our web site.

We support these browsers:
Microsoft® Edge (new 2020 version)
Firefox (latest version)
Google Chrome (latest version)

.

Try using Mikewalsh's portables, https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 734#p48734, after you update them to the latest versions. That is, download the 'tar.gz/tar.xz', extract it, move the extracted folder wherever you want, Left-Click LAUNCH to see if it functions, then:
for firefox, use its built-in update mechanism, Settings>Help>About firefox
for Google-Chrome, Left-click the Update Chrome file within the extracted folder.

Stephen wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 6:04 am

Seems both logins are based on Google.
Does this mean I cannot use a pet without google to login?

It means whatever browser you use, whether installed as a .pet or otherwise, it needs to be able to install the "app", which seems to be what they are now calling an extension

Hi everyone.

To update, and thank you for the tips, I seem to be at an impasse. I have 2 alternative computer setups, i.e. 2 laptops on separate connections at two physical addresses, connected to two different ISPs. If I use the browsers recommended by the bank I can get to the main page but then everything freezes up. As Firefox put it, "This page is slowing down Firefox. To speed up your browser, stop this page." In fact the page stops itself and no amount of waiting helps.

So I seem to have a blank page if I use a google-free browser or a frozen page if I use a google/recommended browser. I have managed to get a blank white page rather than a black page for the Warehouse Mobile page, strangely.

These blank/frozen pages are only those pages that involve some form of banking or financial transaction.

The exception has been the 2degrees ISP, as I have managed to buy a sim and make payments for mobile data quite successfully using the highly disregarded/suspect/frowned upon POLI payment system (thank you Oz).

Soooo, currently my two puppies are xenialpup7.5 and bionic-zm, both 32 bit, both running on xp computers. My plea is, would anyone have a copy of or link to an ungoogled chromium that would work in either of these puppies and/or be currently using either of these puppies with ungoogled chromium? I have been unsuccessful so far finding an ungoogled chromium but keen to see if I can get into my bank account by bypassing 10\C entirely.

I realise I may be flogging a dead horse but any helpful advice appreciated.

Cheers,
S

P.S. amipup and XP-like puppy were quite nice to try. So many wonderful puppies out there!

@ Stephen. Would this be your Acer 3000 laptop? https://www.cnet.com/reviews/acer-aspire-3000-review/ The specifications are not that generous regarding memory! Can you please state just how much memory the laptop has. If it is just 256MB, you are already struggling. Browsers are memory hogs.
The other point: You are running two somewhat elderly Puppy distros - there's no real harm in that but,have you tried one of more recent origin?
Wizard's "Friendly- JammyPup32" is good. viewtopic.php?t=9972
Just my two-pennyworth.

Fossil wrote: ↑Sun Jun 16, 2024 9:19 am

@ Stephen. Would this be your Acer 3000 laptop? https://www.cnet.com/reviews/acer-aspire-3000-review/ The specifications are not that generous regarding memory! Can you please state just how much memory the laptop has. If it is just 256MB, you are already struggling. Browsers are memory hogs.

Guys, we are slipping. BADLY..!

At one time in this community, hardware specs would have been the very first thing requested by any of us. Yet here we are, 13 posts in, and @Fossil is the first to have even mentioned them.....

Instead we're all banging on about different browsers, etc, as though taking it for granted that the OP has ample specs to run them. Kinda demonstrates how so many of us have moved "onward & upward" to better and more powerful machines.....to the point where we no longer have to wonder if the hardware has the grunt to run stuff!

Okay. Querying the hardware gives us this:-

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/acer-aspire-3000-review/

.....and this:-

https://www.computer-specifications.com ... Specs.html

Sites can't agree on base RAM; some say 256MB, some say 512MB. Supposedly upgradeable to 2 GB.....but this IS DDR1 (so old and slow). Whichever it is, Fossil's right; that's gonna be a struggle. Modern browsers can easily hit the 600-800MB mark with only a couple of tabs open.

The real issue, however, is this:-

https://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K8/AMD-M ... IX3BA.html

It's like an early Pentium 4; SSE2s only. And while for a long time Chrome & company would run with a minimum of SSE2s, you need SSE3 now for the browser to function properly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's NOT looking good.

I don't want to be a "party pooper", but one thing everyone DID agree on at the time was that the Aspire 3000 was a "bargain-basement" special of the worst kind.....cheapest possible components, terrible battery life and didn't do anything very well. It's like our long-deceased anciente Dell Inspiron; when we first got that back in 2002, it came with XP Home.....and just 128MB DDR1 RAM. It thrashed like crazy, but amazingly it ran.....JUST. And later in its life, despite maxing everything out as far as I could it still struggled; even with Puppy.

It was even older, heavier and slower than the OP's machine. And with that desktop P4, definitely ran a LOT hotter. (@Fossil will confirm about the heat issue. Remember the "Resurrection" thread that rambled on about everything under the sun for nearly 15 pages?)

https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtop ... 86#p809186

As for the battery. Yes, it did used to get warm. Nice for the winter when balanced on my rheumaticy knees, but not so nice when placed further up the thighs where the resulting heat was enough to nearly cook my gonads. In the younger male population this would have had a considerable impact on future fertility and would therefore count as a sure means of population control.

I got many more years of mileage out of mine than I ought to have done, but it really would no longer be viable in today's world.

Sometimes, ya just gotta recognise when certain hardware simply isn't really usable anymore. And that leads to a problem for the OP, since he freely admits he's in no position to upgrade or replace it.....

I just don't know what to suggest for the best. (*Sugar puffs...*)

Mike.

Hi,

Thanks for posting.

OK, yes, it is a very old machine. Well both machines are. Except one has a newish hard drive that can handle anything I throw at it (sorry I am using the other one for this post and can't recall the brand or specs) and 2GB of RAM freshly installed. So I guess you could say it not the computer it was when it came out of the factory. The machine I am typing on has 1GB of RAM but a few years longer in the tooth (about 5 years old from memory, no pun intended).

As an alternative to these machines, I wonder if I might spend a modest few $$ on an expansion drive and install a puppy in a partition there. Might last longer than a puppy on a USB. But like I said, $$ are tight so not my first choice.

Thanks for the tip on Jammy (I think it was "Jammy," can't view that post as I write). Jammy is on my list of puppies that I have tried but will try again.

Please be assured that nobody is slipping up. Hardware can be an issue but I'm not sure that is the case here. This machine in its current state can run circles around some newer gear that I've tried and I can still beat an iphone in a search. Prepared to eat 'umble pie of course.

Cheers,
S

I am also wondering if the browser needs to be 64bit software and the Puppy version also 64bit.

As I posted before.

Your problem web sites work OK using BookwormPup64 (64bit OS) and Firefox browser (64bit) running in it.

Hi bigpup,

I do get that my gear is old and there would certainly be more options with 64bit gear.

If I do drop 32 bit I think I would have a look at pi (raspberry pi?) although I know very little about it.

But I do have a question as Chelsea 80 was able to get onto both website log-in pages without difficulty using 32 bit. If C80 is reading this, I would be most grateful for more detail on the OS, the particular computer being used and whether puppy was on a USB or in a partition on the hard drive?

I am now shut out of alibaba. As I watch the progress bar I see that the last item/link is google.co.nz for a nanosecond before the white screen appears and everything stops. May be completely unrelated - just an observation.

Thanks for persevering with me.

Cheers,
Stephen

@Stephen :-

Hm. Mmm... Well, I'm currently in 32-bit Xenialpup 7.5 myself ATM. I'm using one of AlienBob's recent 32-bit Slackware builds of Chromium, which I threw together into a Puppy-'portable'. Following @jrb 's "recipe" as given here:-

viewtopic.php?p=106041#p106041

.....it's running perfectly here in Xenialpup.

Following your links, the WestPac log-in page shows up in around 10 seconds for me - I AM round the other side of the world from you! - with everything displayed correctly. The WarehouseMobile page shows up in around half that time, again with everything showing up as it should. Obviously, I can't take things any further since I don't have a/cs with either organisation.

I'm starting to wonder if perhaps there's an IP 'blocking' issue going on here. Nothing to do with either architecture of Puppy, OR browser, at all.

When we were with BT (British Telecom) several years ago, for some reason they had 'blocked' access to their own domain from our IP address (which was provided BY them!) Made NO sense to me at all, that didn't. I eventually figured-out what was going on, but it DID take a while to resolve....

Maybe an 'avenue' to investigate?

Mike.

For the bank web site.

Go to the bank and get them to tell you what is needed to access the web site.
Computer ability and web browser.
They should be able to provide this information.

Whatever is needed, you do not seem to have it or have it correctly setup.

I have normal setup for the firewall, so that does not seem to be an issue.

Do you maybe have other than the normal setting for the firewall?

In the browser have cookies the web site may need to use blocked?
(usually they tell you that when you access a web page)

Browser security setting too restrictive.

Hi and thanks,

I seem to have hammered the wrong key while typing so hope this displays OK.

I think I shall leave the IP side of things for the moment as I can switch IPs to no effect. IPs here do share resources though, so there may be an issue (that is hard to find).

I like the idea of cloning your system Mike, at least for testing or even as a USB OS solely for banking. Would you be able to provide a link for downloading your portable Chromium? Or, alternatively, does anyone have a dummy's guide for adding in the required components to the std chromium? Happy to learn how to do it.

Cheers,
Stephen

Hi Mike et al,

Another update! Using one of my xp computers rather than xenialpup, I downloaded a browser via a site called msfn where an old-ish discussion was around TLS1.3 in XP.

Apparently XP only goes to TLS1.2 but some clone browsers have TLS1.3 built in - so these can be used in XP to open pages that normally can't be opened with the older TLS1.2 used in XP.

The browsers suggested were 360 Extreme Explorer 11.0.2086.0, New Moon 28, Serpent 52.9.0, Serpent 55.0.0 and New Moon 27.9.6.

Of these I managed to get a slight variation on New Moon to work, specifically palemoon-28.0.2251.0_X-SP2_Modified (as a zip file) that I unzipped into the C drive "Program Files" folder.

This displayed both the Warehouse mobile login and Westpac login pages after about 10 seconds.

But I did have to go thru the process of allowing an exception for each. Attempting to access both login pages brought up a screen saying, roughly, that these pages had no "secure signature" and gave the option to allow a "security exception" which I took, perhaps unwisely.

I signed into Westpac successfully - then the page showing my account and bank balance froze, requiring a battery removal and reboot..........

So, not quite there yet but interesting that TLS1.3 might be involved. Would this in any way relate to browser builds for xenialpup 7.5?

Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Stephen

@Stephen

Another update! Using one of my xp computers rather than xenialpup, I downloaded a browser via a site called msfn where an old-ish discussion was around TLS1.3 in XP.

Apparently XP only goes to TLS1.2 but some clone browsers have TLS1.3 built in - so these can be used in XP to open pages that normally can't be opened with the older TLS1.2 used in XP.

If I understand correctly you are using XP to access the internet.

This is very dangerous as Microsoft stopped supporting this OS years ago.

So, no patches or security updates.

The door is wide open for anyone who wants to plant nasties on you.

@Stephen :-

Mm. Yah; the TLS stuff is just the sort of item that WILL bugger things RIGHT up.......and most folks won't even know what it is - or does! - anyway. (It's part of the 'handshake' mechanism whereby the website verifies to the browser that it is, indeed, who it claims to be. Security certificates are also a part of this process.)

If you'd like to give portable-Chromium a try, here ya go:-

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/oljsma ... Chromium32

• Download it

• Unzip it, to reveal the portable directory itself (you'll know when you've found it by the Chromium icon)

• Move this directory anywhere you like. Outside the OS is preferable, since this then keeps the self-contained 'cache' outside the 'save'.......and the cache is easily capable of expanding to ridiculous proportions in a short period of time if you're a heavy browser. /Mnt/home is a good place for it, alongside the main Puppy SFS files'n'stuff. You can even run these from a suitably-formatted flash-drive (ext3/4 rather than the factory default of FAT32.....because FAT32 doesn't support sym-links.)

• Click once to enter the portable directory

• Click on the 'LAUNCH' script to fire it up; all required libs for Xenialpup 7.5 are built-in to the portable...

Let us know if you have any better luck with this one, please.

Mike.

One thing to make sure of in the Puppy version you try using.

Make sure the time zone, date, and time are correct for your location.

For time zone, try to use one specific to your location.
If you use a GMT one.
Make sure it is correctly adjusted for any time changes, like daylight saving. GMT ones do not auto adjust.

After you are sure it is all correct.

Do a reboot and make sure your settings are still correctly used.

Thanks. Will do.

Hi and a further update.

Well, at last I seem to be back into my herniating bank account and can access government sites such as Land Information NZ and Justice. Not to mention Trademe, of course.

I did pursue the chromium option, thanks Mike, but have yet to get it to work (most likely something I have not got right yet). I have downloaded and unzipped. I understand to move to the USB storage area but I cannot yet locate the file with the distinctive chromium logo.

But as I thought this might be the way to go, I tracked down a similar option by JASpup and downloaded 32chromium90-xenial.sfs which gets me into Westpac and works once I am there, without freezing.

32c90 has 3rd party cookies blocked and works ok. It also kicks off in incognito mode, which suits me fine, but with google as the search engine. I have changed that to lite.duckduckgo and that works too, although I think my 1GB of RAM is on the light side.

The login process seems to connect to "googletagmanager," "demdex," etc before displaying the login page then connects to "bank.westpac.co.nz" and "establishing a secure connection" even if it is rather slow. The main impediment, speed-wise, seems to be the time it takes for the Westpac "Scams alert" banner to load.

So it looks like I can use 32chromium90-xenial and xenial7.5 for banking and online purchases on my USB. My preferred payment method, besides cash, is bank transfer rather than a card with the various cuts that the big boys take.

I have found, my bad, that when I close down the USB I should boot back into XP and use the "safely disconnect" facility to remove the USB before rebooting into it next time.

For browsing in XP I still use Mypal generally but for troublesome sites I can use Slimjet, which is a little out of date, or "palemoon-28.10.7a1.win32-git-20240622-d849524bd-uxp-a2f81bc791-xpmod" or "basilisk52-g4.4.win32-git-20190907-6db06749e-xpmod." So these four browsers cover all bases in XP SP2, leaving just the $$$ side of things for Xenial to handle.

On reflection there are a couple of villains here, IMO. The bank that sets terms on how I access (or lose) my dollars and google that sets terms on how I access my bank. By villains, I mean they are constantly changing the rules and give absolutely no help to anyone who gets left behind in the technological race to the bottom, except to blame the disadvantaged or financially challenged for not keeping up.

On the other side, I am extremely appreciative of the guidance, inspiration and practical help this forum provides. Likewise the MSFN site and those dedicated individuals who provide an alternative to the gently guiding hand of google et al.

I'm not too concerned about the various risks associated with my continued use of XP. Up until 2019 all government departments here in NZ seemed to be using XP and I followed suit (pun intended). Lately, of course, they have gone to the cloud for "better" security.

As an adjudged troglodyte, I think I would lose the last of my hair trying to do serious research on the latest smart/AI device. Let alone the risks associated with keeping a chipped credit card in the same place as a smart phone...

So, tentatively good news. I am sure I have made mistakes along the way but I shall make good use of the lull while it is there!

Cheers everyone and my heartfelt thanks,
Stephen

@Stephen

OK so you are going to continue using Win XP to access the internet. Just make sure you have a back-up of all your personal data.

Stephen wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:32 am

So these four browsers cover all bases in XP SP2

Then at least upgrade SP2 to SP3. This was the last official SP release before MS withdrew support for Win XP completely.

Stephen wrote: ↑Tue Jun 25, 2024 3:32 am

I'm not too concerned about the various risks associated with my continued use of XP. Up until 2019 all government departments here in NZ seemed to be using XP and I followed suit (pun intended). Lately, of course, they have gone to the cloud for "better" security.

Information obtained states:

Windows XP is highly vulnerable to attacks and security threats for several reasons:

Lack of security updates: Microsoft ended extended support for Windows XP in April 2014, meaning it no longer receives security patches or updates. This leaves the operating system exposed to newly discovered vulnerabilities.

Outdated security features:
Windows XP lacks modern security protections found in newer versions of Windows, making it more susceptible to malware, viruses, and other attacks.

Vulnerability to worms and trojans:
Windows XP systems are particularly vulnerable to attacks through email attachments containing worms or trojans.
Notable examples include the Blaster and Sasser worms, which exploited unpatched vulnerabilities in XP systems.

Network-based attacks:
Even when behind a NAT router and firewall, an XP machine can still be compromised through various means, such as malicious software using UPnP to open ports on the router. Outdated programs connecting to hijacked domains for updates. Lateral movement from other compromised devices on the same network.

Web browsing risks:
Using outdated browsers on XP increases the risk of drive-by downloads and other web-based attacks

Known vulnerabilities:
There are numerous documented vulnerabilities in Windows XP that attackers can exploit

While using antivirus software and firewalls can provide some protection, they cannot fully mitigate the risks associated with using an unsupported operating system. The general recommendation from security experts is to no longer use Windows XP, as it poses significant security risks to both the individual machine and potentially to other devices on the same network

Good luck.

Hi.

Appreciate the advice re backing up. Am doing so as time allows and cleaning up/deleting etc at the same time.

All fine still, albeit swapping between browsers to suit particular sites. There have been no further problems with bank access, paying bills, making purchases and so on. Even put in a bid on some headlight glasses for my Austin 7 Ruby today. OK, too much information - but it was fun...

Thanks everyone.

Stephen