Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Amethyst has been a member of this forum for many years.

He has offered to the Puppy community many useful programs, ideas, bug fixes, found issues, help to others, etc...........

People like this are what Puppy Linux needs involved and to keep it what it is!

Something has really pissed off Amethyst!

However, I am not really sure, what happened or what, we as members of the forum. can do to change Amethyst's mind.

No replies to PM's I have sent to Amethyst.

BUT WE COULD ALL MAYBE DO SOMETHING!!

So I offer this topic to have others post why they hope Amethyst will stay active on this forum.

Maybe Amethyst will see it

It was right around the time I posted on a topic of one of his remaster utilities, that while I was using it, suddenly deleted the contents of an entire directory.
I reported the event to find out what steps during the remaster process and what order the steps were done in caused the mass file deletion.
viewtopic.php?p=117425#p117425

There was another forum member reported a very similar incident in a following post and it appears the potential cause was diagnosed eventually, but somewhere somehow something during that time got to amethyest and he was suddenly angry.

rockedge wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 3:12 am

viewtopic.php?p=117425#p117425
but somewhere somehow something

Hi. You probably remember how I said that I would only observe. And only support the "standard" F96 for a while.

It was said for a reason. It seemed to me that even Phil had gone somewhere because of the changes in woof-CE in general and the differences between the "old" and "CE" versions of Fossa in particular.

The current case only strengthens me in the correctness of my conclusions. And you have to draw your own conclusions. Something (somewhere, somehow) definitely needs to be done (for you as the organizer, although I know that you only wanted to do the forum). People are simply lost in the number of distros and uncontrollable panic, apathy or rejection may occur.

@rockedge By the way. If @bigpup does not explain within 24 hours what was offensive in my post, then I will leave you too. Maybe @wiak was offended by something there or something?

@Grey I have no idea what the post said. I never read it or knew it even existed. I have other problems.

Grey wrote:

....does not explain within 24 hours what was offensive in my post, then I will leave you too

So I pay the penalty? Sounds hurtful.

rockedge wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 4:47 am

I have other problems.

I honestly tried to make the forum better. To advise something, point out a flaw and even organize a truly honest vote.

My nerves are made of steel. But the fatigue of the material (metal) affects. I have enough problems too.
Who should talk to moderators in the "hidden section of the forum" about the quality of moderation? User or Admin?

I understand that the moderator is in a hurry and all that. But even the quote from Wiak - to whom the appeal was made - has been deleted... There remains only a stump of the message, it is unclear to whom and why the person is addressing.

I'm new here, but anyone who helps any project is greatly appreciated in the open source world. It takes time and effort and a lot of people can get a bit passionate about things. I can't speak for others, only myself, when I say that anger happens. Frustration happens. Time helps, but so does feeling like you are making a worthwhile difference.

If they are angry due to feeling unwelcome or insulted or unwanted, it can lead to anger. If they feel their time is being wasted, that too can lead to anger or apathy.

All I can say is I want to personally thank EVERYONE who has contributed to this project and any other open source project. Your work is always welcome and appreciated even if it may not seem like it.

I hope everyone is doing well.

bigpup wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 12:10 am

So I offer this topic to have others post why they hope Amethyst will stay active on this forum.

I am only guessing - but I suspect that Amethyst was mortified by the thought that his suite was potentially being blamed for such a very serious flaw.
To be on the receiving end of that kind of complaint would be devastating.

No dev or coder wants to have to front questions about problems that severe. Who wants to believe that their baby is a killer?

I really hope he comes back.

I don't see that anyone was criticising him. I think posters were asking questions. Coming up with theories. Doing testing.
Well - that is the scientific method. We just have to harden up, grit our teeth, and work out what caused it.

Even today - we see important bits of software (banking, ISP, Google etc) drop offline because bugs pop up, buffers reach their limits etc etc. It is a constant reminder that anyone who believes in foolproof software is a fool.

This is why I don't run a savefile.

Who cares if a coding bug deletes EVERY puppy file? Just reload the frugal (5 mins).

I would just reiterate one thing - keep your personal data well away from your puppy software - and BACK IT UP.

Come back Nic. (please)

Personally, I feel that if a member wishes to take 'time out' for themselves then this should not be questioned.

Hopefully, it gives time to reflect on the situation and make a decision if they wish to participate or not.

Members should be able to 'drop in and drop out' and get involved if they want to.

Adding pressure to a situation doesn't help.

Let sleeping dogs lie.

Two will leave, one will come.

I saw a glimpse at the bottom of the screen that the newest forum user had registered as scottj. If it's Scott Jarvis, then I'm calm. If this is the author of Puppy Arcade, then he will continue the section about Emulation.
And if it's not him, then nothing terrible will happen anyway.

Jasper wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 7:27 am

Personally, I feel that if a member wishes to take 'time out' for themselves then this should not be questioned.

Hopefully, it gives time to reflect on the situation and make a decision if they wish to participate or not.

Members should be able to 'drop in and drop out' and get involved if they want to.

Adding pressure to a situation doesn't help.

Let sleeping dogs lie.

Well, absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

Every member of our community that contributes - in whatever way, to however great or small a degree - is still an individual, with their own life to lead (and their own set of personal issues). Just because they MAY have been a regular, participating & contributing presence for "x" number of years, always seemingly around everywhere you look, it doesn't follow that they're duty-bound to have to keep putting in an appearance simply to satisfy others.

TBH, if we feel the need to have to keep commenting on the absence of others, well.......what does that say about us? IMHO, if I was to disappear off the face of the earth tomorrow, I know darned well that I would very quickly be forgotten about. I'm under NO illusions as to my own importance in the scheme of things...

That's life. Shit happens.

Mike.

my opinion is that (which actually includes both of your main reflections) if a member decides to take a pause, for whatever reason(s) & whatever length, this person has, well, the right and reasons; at the same time it is nice & (hopefully) it triggers an honest response from other users which includes worrying and wondering about this person's (temporary, hopefully) departure from the community's life. These behaviors are human and functional, IMO, and welcomed.

Grey wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 4:28 am

@rockedge By the way. If @bigpup does not explain within 24 hours what was offensive in my post, then I will leave you too. Maybe @wiak was offended by something there or something?

rockedge wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 4:47 am

@Grey I have no idea what the post said. I never read it or knew it even existed. I have other problems.

Grey wrote:

....does not explain within 24 hours what was offensive in my post, then I will leave you too

So I pay the penalty? Sounds hurtful.

Never saw the post either. No idea therefore about any of these comments.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 9:51 am

IMHO, if I was to disappear off the face of the earth tomorrow, I know darned well that I would very quickly be forgotten about.

Don't worry, you will never be forgotten. Your contributions to this world made you immortal.

rockedge, "It was right around the time I posted on a topic of one of his remaster utilities, that while I was using it, suddenly deleted the contents of an entire directory."

I've used his utilities many times without ever experiencing a problem. However, it's important to remember (a) we are all Human, so fallible; (b) we live in a Universe subject to entropy and (c) entropy becomes more evident as the complexity of a system increases. Hence, Murphy's Law, if something can go wrong, it will.

The components of the remaster utilities do not exist in isolation. They become part of a complex system of hardware and software and each of us has a different system. None of us are capable of devising an application which will never interact adversely under all circumstances.

The same is true of organizations, even more so. They are composed of individuals with complex personalities and egos having some degree of vulnerability, who communicate using the flawed instrument of language "as through a glass, darkly".

Unfortunately, I don't know of any mechanism to insure that in that interaction each of us apply tolerance, forgiveness and the recognition our own fallibility.

@amethyst

Sorry to see a good contributor go. Always liked your takes of Puppy on low power hardware.

I bumble around with code and post some of it here. I'm always flattered when someone finds a bug or levels criticism because it means they have taken time from their life to look at something I've done. I get the chance to learn and improve.

We have an old adage here "Don't wear your feelings on your sleeve"

Hope you take a "time out" and then return.

wizard

@rockedge

I posted on a topic of one of his remaster utilities, that while I was using it, suddenly deleted the contents of an entire directory.
I reported the event to find out what steps during the remaster process and what order the steps were done in caused the mass file deletion.

Two days ago my daily driver woke from suspend and immediately began asking to send files to trash. Killed the app and opened Geaney where it began to auto repeat random characters.

Hello POWER BUTTON.

Rebooted and back to normal.

wizard's rule #11 "Sometimes weird things just happen"

wizard

@wizard A solid truth for sure.

I found out the "event" happened because of a certain very specific order and combination of steps caused the deletion. In my case the partition was actually a directory with frugal installs that are mostly made up of symlinks to one central frugal installation, so the deletion was contained to a single directory that contained all of the sub-directory frugal installations of F96-CE_4.

I had checked some of the options and then tried to go back to a previous step in the GUI and with the parameters set exactly in a certain way that triggered the "event". I have used amethyst's utilities many many times successfully and this was the first such incident,

I intended to simply report my experience but that seems that was a mistake, If I acted that way this entire forum and everything else online surrounding Puppy Linux on this domain wouldn't exist. Matter of fact I've been heavily criticized by amethyst himself in no nice way. F96-CE_4, KLV, the forum all have been mentioned in some negative way by him directly at me........guess what? I'm still here. Thick skin I guess and desensitized from life in a Punk Rock band and working for 26 years in the movie business. Even my mom was very critical of me and I could do not much right in her eyes.

This would be the second or third time I've gotten down to begging amethyst to stay on....this time...nope...not doing it.

@amethyst you want to go..then go go goodbye.

rockedge wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2024 5:01 pm

@wizard A solid truth for sure.

I found out the "event" happened because of a certain very specific order and combination of steps caused the deletion. In my case the partition was actually a directory with frugal installs that are mostly made up of symlinks to one central frugal installation, so the deletion was contained to a single directory that contained all of the sub-directory frugal installations of F96-CE_4.

I had checked some of the options and then tried to go back to a previous step in the GUI and with the parameters set exactly in a certain way that triggered the "event". I have used amethyst's utilities many many times successfully and this was the first such incident,

I intended to simply report my experience but that seems that was a mistake, If I acted that way this entire forum and everything else online surrounding Puppy Linux on this domain wouldn't exist. Matter of fact I've been heavily criticized by amethyst himself in no nice way. F96-CE_4, KLV, the forum all have been mentioned in some negative way by him directly at me........guess what? I'm still here. Thick skin I guess and desensitized from life in a Punk Rock band and working for 26 years in the movie business. Even my mom was very critical of me and I could do not much right in her eyes.

This would be the second or third time I've gotten down to begging amethyst to stay on....this time...nope...not doing it.

@amethyst you want to go..then go go goodbye.

Wow! Last post here but I think I need to put something straight before I leave permanently (which will be permanently now after seeing your attitude). It was not YOUR post that pissed me off although your sudden errors were strange due to the fact that the remaster scripts have been used by hundreds of people over many years. You will recall that I actually put numerous questions in reply to that post of yours and you did not reply on ANY of them (this was not the first time this has happened either). When did you beg me to stay on the forum? Strange one. For the record - this is the post that pissed me off (how it was presented and that poster's nasty, sarcastic and demanding style of posting over a long period of time) and what followed after that. viewtopic.php?p=117543#p117543 Anyways, your attitude with this last post of yours just confirms that I'm doing the right thing to leave. Bye,bye.

Hi,

So in the end, wrong assumptions (about the "event") led to heated answers and bad decisions.

That's sad ...

peace

amethyst wrote:

You will recall that I actually put numerous questions in reply to that post of yours and you did not reply on ANY of them

Of course I was responding, I posted answers then I had to leave and travel cross country to visit a very sick brother. I can read the topic timeline just fine and see exactly how it went.

amethyst wrote:

Maybe it works weird because it's for Puppys and you are using it for KL? So my advice will be NOT to use it if you have problems with it.

I responded that I am using F96-CE_4 or a Fossapup64-9.6 and not any KLV type distro and I answered with the very next post:
viewtopic.php?p=117452#p117452

Your post even suggesting I am using a Puppy Linux remaster suite in KLV seems out of place, since I already had specified F96-CE_4. Anyway KLV is equipped with a remaster script.

Then suddenly there is a post from fredx181 saying your deleting contributions and had announced departure. That's all I knew of it until now.

You have threatened to leave before. I asked you then to reconsider.

Simply read the terms of this forum.

Personal comments about people are not allowed.

You can disagree with.

What you think about something.

Give your ideas.

Etc....

But comments about a person are not allowed.

Mainly because the posts turn into nothing but a bunch of posts about who you are, calling people names, who do you think you are, a big food fight, etc......

You can send a private message to anyone on this forum.

Only you and the other person sees it.

Everyday moderators have to delete stuff that is not allowed on this forum.

You agree to this by being a member of the forum.

People can see that the topics on this forum are enjoyable to read and get involved in, when there are not posts of two people posting insults, personal comments, back and forth, to each other!
Totally looses concentration on the complete help, ideas, info, etc....... any of them are trying to provide.

What you think I said in a post may or may not be what I think I said.

What you read and how you understand it,

May or may not be what I wanted you to understand or how to understand it.

In three hours, the 24 hours will expire. It seems that there will be no explanations anymore. I treated Wiak with respect. You don't even know what you deleted and you can't admit it. I won't be here soon and you can do whatever you want.

Grey wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 2:11 am

I treated Wiak with respect. You don't even know what you deleted and you can't admit it. I won't be here soon and you can do whatever you want.

That's fine, but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Deleted what?!

EDIT: Is it @bigpup you are talking to or is it me? I certainly did not delete anything. (And though, on thread inspection, I can see something was deleted from one of your posts, I never saw what was originally posted).

wiak wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 2:24 am

That's fine, but I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Deleted what?!

Please don't interfere. You are in this story by accident and are not responsible in this case. It's just that someone didn't even let you read the post and didn't let you decide for yourself.

Grey check your PM's

Okay, people. bigpup and I have come to peace. Although we didn't fight (it was a matter of principle).

But my point of view has NOT changed. I didn't see what was supposed to be. A shaky truce.

For my part, I will try to "talk" less often on the forum and mostly listen. As few posts as possible.
This will make the moderators' lives and work easier. From this day on, I don't care about the moderators' affairs. And in general, I will treat the forum more coldly.
I decided that myself, no one asked me to.
-----|
And now I'm going to fade to grey. Everything can fade to grey. Join. It was supposed to be in a farewell post, and now it's a symbol of reconciliation.
No, really, everyone can - each Fade to Grey:

@MochiMoppel fantastic observation

@rockedge any mention of the Ramones is always good in my book

@Grey loved this Visage track so much at the time, I bought it as a 12" vinyl, still have it

So for both of you .......... this is 'tongue in cheek' but how about ?

The Ramones? .... no shit, I didn't like the Stones much, but I did like the Ramones, on top of the pops! Small world we live in. Pro footballer taboot ... !

@amethyst I do like trampolines ... I bounce off of them to attain greater heights. Sometimes you land feet betwixt the springs, and curse the fucker!! but then you keep on going unless you grew old, rigid, stagnant and frightened.....just sayin'