Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Kennel Linux has never applied to be featured via Distrowatch, which limits outside knowledge of its existence to Puppy Forum visitors, most of whom presumably come here with only an interest in Puppy itself. Since FirstRib based distros have been usefully available since early 2019, with many powerful features, it seems a pity we make no attempt to let the greater Linux community know about them.

We have many KL distro variants including various versions fully system and repo compatible with Void Linux, Arch Linux, Ubuntu, Fedora, and easy capability to provide variants with Debian or Devuan full system and repo/package management compatibility, including very powerful and flexible frugal install capability.

Surely time to tell the world about this?

Personally, I would consider it better if forum took more central interest in coordinating such forum distro product marketing, but never gone beyond Puppy-centric approach thus far in its evolving history. I don't believe that approach is in best overall forum interest. However, which KL distro(s) to let the world know about as exemplars of what the underlying and simple to use FirstRib build system can easily produce?

hi everyone

i must strongly agree with wiak

all this great work is essentially being hidden

all of it is in the puppy spirit

it needs to be showcased and incorporated into puppy

not doing this is a great disservice to the puppy community

the people that are attracted to puppy
are attracted to the concept
not any particular piece of code

the proof is all the different variants that have been made since day one and over the years

wanderer

Well wiak, since you were the one that was adament about this forum not being just about Puppy Linux, go ahead and make the DistroWatch announcement!
You are the most qualified developer of the FirstRib build system that I am aware of, so in my opinion you are the most knowledgeable person with the
deepest understanding of how these distros function and that places you in the best postition to answer questions from potential new users.

wiak wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 12:09 pm

Personally, I would consider it better if forum took more central interest

Who is 'forum'? What stops you from submitting it to DW yourself?

if every individual project is submitted to distrowatch it fragments the effort
the synergy that is achieved by everyone coming to this forum and working together is what advances puppy

many hands make easy work

wanderer

wanderer wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 1:37 pm

if every individual project is submitted to distrowatch it fragments the effort
the synergy that is achieved by everyone coming to this forum and working together is what advances puppy

many hands make easy work

wanderer

Conversely, "too many cooks spoil the broth"!

If you want the Linux OS you produce to be on DistroWatch.

Then you should submit it to them.

That simple.

How do you think Easy OS and Fatdog64 got posted to DistroWatch.

Do wonder why Fatdog64 is not at least in the top 100 page hit ranking

Wiz57 wrote:

You are the most qualified developer of the FirstRib build system that I am aware of

Unless you are talking about the technical mechanics and inner workings of the build scripts themselves, I disagree. There are more than one.

Who do you think has the most experience actually using these FirstRib build scripts and utilities in the real world and has produced working distros to show for it?

@Sofiya has constructed and shared several PLUG files and distro assembly scripts that puts it all together.

Somebody who can put together KLV-Hyperland in ISO and in build script form knows what they are doing I would surmise.

Success is in the details.

rockedge wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:54 pm

I have changed the website's domain name to kennel-linux.rockedge.org and renamed the FirstRib to Kennel Linux

@wiak we can do some rearrangment and or renaming as required...

It is weird that when the URL was pasted into the nav bar or simply enter/return was pressed there was no problem. It seems when linked from this site it doesn't want to work for some unknown to me reason.

Hope this link works using https: kennel-linux.rockedge.org

OR this using http: kennel-linux.rockedge.org

rockedge wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 8:54 pm

I have changed the website's domain name to kennel-linux.rockedge.org and renamed the FirstRib to Kennel Linux

@wiak we can do some rearrangment and or renaming as required...

It is weird that when the URL was pasted into the nav bar or simply enter/return was pressed there was no problem. It seems when linked from this site it doesn't want to work for some unknown to me reason.

Hope this link works using https: kennel-linux.rockedge.org

OR this using http: kennel-linux.rockedge.org

Sorry rockedge, you seem to have misunderstood me. FirstRib is not Kennel Linux despite no KL distro thus far having been built with an initrd that wasn't provided from FirstRib. Kennel Linux was devised to allow the use of any PLDF components wanted to be included - I was simply hoping for better forum collaboration but Puppy crowd has aggressively tended to resist any such other-distro-involved collaboration in practice (this is the Puppy Linux Discussion Forum - resistance is futile or something like that ). I have never bothered to really market FirstRib - withdrew it from this forum some years ago (as you know) leaving the original forum threads specifically about FR under PLDF/Off-Topic-Area/Other Distros for those of PLDF who were already building distros with them. And I am fine with that old FirstRib-related archive info remaining there (or being deleted).

Instead, as I made clear way back then, I planned to eventually build new FirstRib websites (or WeeDog, which I decided was a terrible secondary name choice) , but I haven't bothered to make any of that thus far, and don't know when or if I ever now will. I did put some early thoughts/notes regarding FIrstRib operation and design under tinylinux.info, which is one of the ten primary domains I myself maintain, but that is as far as my plans to market FIrstRIb have gone thus far... pity maybe, but pushing it out to be known and recognised by a wider audience has never been much of a priority to me.

As I said when I took FirstRib out of PLDF some years ago now (when some of the old Puppy lot were ganging up and groaning per usual), it remains fine for other Puppy Forum members to continue building their own distros on the back of FR build system and components (meaning primarily the FR initrd) and calling them, for example KL distros or KL/FR-based distros since the name Kennel Linux was intended by me to refer to the Kennels much more widely (than the forum's original Puppy Linux itself) such that a KL distro never needs to use any FR component. Admittedly, it just always has used FR initrd thus far; not much KL-wise happening to use alternatives to FR underlying build system idea and approach...

Truth is, I'm also too busy nowadays to worry about any FR future marketing or use outside of my own home need and continuing likely future needs. However, I have no interest nor intention of changing its main dev site, which will remain as gitlab.com/firstrib. Any other site I build for my FirstRib dev work will be using one of the ten primary domains (or some new one) I myself have long owned. PLDF's (the Kennels) Kennel Linux distros can keep using FR components as long as they wish; that decision is nothing to do with me. But personally, I stopped being interested in Puppy Linux itself over eleven years ago, and accept now that it was a big error thinking any distro other than Puppy LInux (such as DD or KL and so on) could attract much of any attention from the Linux Community as a whole when it was simply a minor and generally unknown feature of a forum for Puppy Linux. Let's face it: no one comes to a forum called PLDF looking for a KL distro that is not Puppy Linux; they don't know KL (like alone FR) exists afterall. Distrowatch contributions would probably be a better way to get some market interest for any new distro (whether using FR build system, initrd, and internals, or not).

So thanks for trying, rockedge, but no, your new subdomain forums are not useful for my purposes/needs. I won't myself be using kennel-linux.rockedge.org forum and long ago decided againt using firstrib.rockedge.org further either. Waste of time IMO - very hard to attract members to any new linux forum nowadays, like alone active ones, like alone keeping them...

Perhaps I will still eventually get round to building my long promised FirstRib websites, but time goes by so I'd suggest that no-one please hold your breathe waiting on that occurring... If that happened it would use my own firstrib domain or subdomain or one of my other sites such as tinylinux.info or simply something further utilising FirstRIb's gitlab.com site. Make your own Kennel Linux sites if you wish, but that will be nothing to do with me aside that I intend to keep maintaining FR components and for general opensource public use.

@wiak though kennel-linux.rockedge.org does make a good testing platform.

No pressures if it blows up during experimentation. I'll keep it around as an excellent place on a commercial server to try out extensions and code modifications.

And most important....running system updates on it first to see how the procedure goes before upgrading this system.

seems like I never quite understand eh? Oh well.

My youngest brother died from cancer this last Friday....9 months from discovery to dead.

Sad News @rockedge

My heartfelt Sympathy......

Very sad news
My sympathies as well.

@rockedge - sorry to hear that. Take care.

rockedge wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 3:31 pm

...
My youngest brother died from cancer this last Friday....9 months from discovery to dead.

Sorry to hear that. Very painful situation.

I'm the youngest and only boy in my family. Many many years ago now I lost one of my two sisters when she was only 60 years old. Seems like yesterday - never really get over it.

As a teenager she was school sports champion every year for three years and also became Scottish junior champion in the sport fencing (foil) yet died so young. Alas had become a chain smoker - tobaco companies should be shut down and their management jailed, but such is capitalism at its worst.

rockedge wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2024 3:31 pm

@wiak though kennel-linux.rockedge.org does make a good testing platform.

No pressures if it blows up during experimentation. I'll keep it around as an excellent place on a commercial server to try out extensions and code modifications.

And most important....running system updates on it first to see how the procedure goes before upgrading this system.

I've nothing at all against you trying to use a standalone kennel linux forum, but I doubt from various past efforts that it is likely to attract much attention for that purpose.

If it was me I'd give KL much more forum space and headline announcements if I wanted more Linux people to know about it. But I understand that is a big and maybe not wanted PLDF scenario. Perhaps the forum would indeed make more relevant sense if for Puppy alone. Probably makes not much sense my having stayed on it so long anyway.

I kind of feel like leaving, as if it is tied round my neck and though uncertain much of me wants free of it now. The thought is admittedly a bit of an internal battle in my mind! But seems to be on my mind a lot nowadays. There is a time for everything. A time to live a time to die...

Mainly I'm just often tired nowadays, but also I am struggling to maintain much focus in the heat here. I still want to do more with FirstRib stuff, and will, but that is the most I can focus on nowadays and I've kind of lost interest in forum matters and personally I'm simply not interested at all in Puppy Linux matters so I kind of feel I could make better use of my time keeping off the forum itself, which is predominantly a place for Puppyists, which makes sense of course.

KL distro development can certainly continue being developed on here. That much goes on very successfully and with no need of me actually (other than making sure FR component scripts continue to function correctly).

Personally I'm too lazy and otherwise absorbed to ever prepare required material for the likes of any KL distro Distrowatch submission to answer some months old posts above.

Old thread this. Time to stop talking. I finally accept the view that the PLDF would have more chance of continuing long and enjoyable life if reserved for the distro its domain was intended for.

@rockedge Very sorry to read of the death of your brother. Both of my 2 younger brothers each
died 2 weeks prior to their turning 41.

wiak wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2024 2:38 pm

Mainly I'm just often tired nowadays, but also I am struggling to maintain much focus in the heat here. I still want to do more with FirstRib stuff, and will, but that is the most I can focus on nowadays and I've kind of lost interest in forum matters and personally I'm simply not interested at all in Puppy Linux matters so I kind of feel I could make better use of my time keeping off the forum itself, which is predominantly a place for Puppyists, which makes sense of course.

Yes, @ally, indeed... Wouldn't it be great if I followed through on this idea of leaving this forum to its excited users. Well, actually what I do in that regard is irrelevant as far as Puppy Linux development is concerned. What the forum probably needs is a different focus, but that is up to its membership - I just state my own view on that as one of its longterm members I realise you'd love to see vanish

My vanishing would neither help Puppy nor this forum in practice - nor the Internet Archive in terms of the to-be-expected new apt-flawed Puppy outputs that are worth archiving. KL, DD, EasyOS, and FatDog vanishing from here would leave the forum a meeting place in what would be, in terms of innovation, like a dead cemetery. I should include Vanilla Dpup, which seems to be advertised as some kind of better Bookworm Pup (?) but since it just uses upstream Debian's debootstrap to get its apt-capable distro core kind of working, which DebianDog has been using since 2014 or so already (and FR has also been able to use since 2019), I see no big deal in terms of innovation despite and unless people really think using Wayland/compositors is somehow innovative really nowadays (should we be using X still? - oh why not??!... this is Puppy - you cannot resist us).

Yes it is futile - I mean ludicrous. Worse was the nonsense criticism and eventual deletion of a thread where a KL developer produced a free contribution for the Puppy side of things (which was badly needed). Alas the action had the negative effect of almost(?) losing the KL section of the forum one of its perhaps only two currently active developers (not including myself since not active enough to claim that at the moment). So damaging. Hence my recent posts. I'm still trying to decide if enough is enough and leave such people to it. I do blame myself partly for running out of time (and thus energy) to support KL in a more definite way, but all distros need a strong focus including on their active forums and what to do really, it's true, when this is the Puppy Linux Discussion Forum so what the hell is KL (as has been asked on several occasions even by those who surely would know?)? Oh the things that get discussed on the unneeded hidden Admin and Moderators thread... which I have spilled over to here. That thread should not exist in their Puppy world do-ocracy not that FirstRib necessarily has that same ocracy...

It's Pantomime season here .................... "He's behind you!!!"

Kennel Linux has never applied to be featured via Distrowatch, which limits outside knowledge of its existence to Puppy Forum visitors, most of whom presumably come here with only an interest in Puppy itself.

The British are famous for their bad teeth and their penchant for drag.

Reminded me of a memorable quote from a BBC TV show

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/ ... -gentlemen

wiak wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 4:52 pm

seems to be advertised as some kind of better Bookworm Pup (?)

I'd love to know how and where. The "marketing materials" at https://vanilla-dpup.github.io/ don't mention BookwormPup, although it's a direct descendant of Vanilla Dpup. I don't understand why my work is mentioned and criticized in this "announcement".

wiak wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 4:52 pm

I see no big deal in terms of innovation

IMO there's lots of innovation going on at https://github.com/vanilla-dpup/woof-CE, things like fast copy to RAM that's disabled automatically when running low on RAM, a fast save2flash that writes just the delta and reduces writing to flash media, encrypted save folders, a fast system-wide ad blocker, a new nftables-based firewall, and many other things. This "announcement" of resentment, bitterness and comments that take a contrarian view, devalue the work of others and question the need for it, doesn't foster innovation and collaboration.

wiak wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 12:09 pm

Kennel Linux has never applied to be featured via Distrowatch, which limits outside knowledge of its existence to Puppy Forum visitors, most of whom presumably come here with only an interest in Puppy itself. Since FirstRib based distros have been usefully available since early 2019, with many powerful features, it seems a pity we make no attempt to let the greater Linux community know about them.

We have many KL distro variants including various versions fully system and repo compatible with Void Linux, Arch Linux, Ubuntu, Fedora, and easy capability to provide variants with Debian or Devuan full system and repo/package management compatibility, including very powerful and flexible frugal install capability.

Surely time to tell the world about this?

Personally, I would consider it better if forum took more central interest in coordinating such forum distro product marketing, but never gone beyond Puppy-centric approach thus far in its evolving history. I don't believe that approach is in best overall forum interest. However, which KL distro(s) to let the world know about as exemplars of what the underlying and simple to use FirstRib build system can easily produce?

If you produce a Linux operating system.

It is up to you to send DistroWatch the information and announcement statement, for them to use.

DistroWatch is not going to do anything, but use the information you give them.
But there is specific information they want to have, so they can post about it, and give it a specific Linux operating system web page, on there server.

You developed it.

You should know what it is.

You should know the information about it.

That simple!

If the developer of the Linux operating system does nothing, then that is what they get on Distrowatch.

Nothing!

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The only way Puppy Linux is going to have some kind of controlled development direction is if it has what was called the Puppy master.
That person had the final say on what was Puppy Linux.

For a long time that was BarryK, but not anymore involved in Puppy Linux.

01micko was suppose to take over.
He is no more.

So there is no one as Puppy master.

Example:
BarryK develops EasyOS.
It is listed on Distrowatch and has a page for it.
He just anounced a new version of EasyOS and it is shown on Distrowatch.
It's information is on the EasyOS Distrowatch web page.

DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 1100, 9 December 2024
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20241209

EasyOS DistroWatch page
https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=easyos
.
.

KL, DD, EasyOS, and FatDog vanishing from here would leave the forum a meeting place in what would be, in terms of innovation, like a dead cemetery.

Tucked away on the edge of Hyde Park (London) is a secret pet cemetery where Victorians buried their faithful friends.

It’s filled with tiny marble headstones, each one bearing a touching reminder of a long-dead companion.

https://www.royalparks.org.uk/read-watc ... t-cemetery

Anyone willing to take up the responsibility to become the new 'Puppy Master' ?

It would be useful if a job description could be provided for the role.

Why has this not been filled nor mentioned until now?

@Jasper If I was a better programmer, a better developer I would take on the role as Puppy Master. I just don't feel qualified.

Right now it is more of a committee type of leadership. I am in the process of exciting a few brand new software engineers to start looking at the woof-CE code and convincing them that a full understanding of how it all works and IMPROVING it is a way to stand out in the job search. Sharpen the skills and have a feeling of control and being part of a very big and important project. One that these newly graduated and going to the IT job market engineers can make a positive resume just by getting a full understanding on how woof-CE works and why it is important to the computer world in general...and then contribute code, fixes and improvements.

It's called Social Engineering.........but using truth in the pitch. The project called Puppy Linux is serious stuff and can make a new developer stand out among many.

Power to the people.

@rockedge

Personally, I would suggest that the person/s that could fill this role should have skills in promoting the OS and not simply a 'techie'.

This would address some of the issues that have been arisen in this thread.

The person may not necessarily have to technical knowledge and I would look more towards a 'coordinator'.

I do not believe for one moment that Elon Musk (substitute for any tech mogul) gets his hands dirty coding

Jasper wrote:

I would suggest that the person/s that could fill this role should have skills in promoting the OS and not simply a 'techie'.

Exactly

rockedge wrote:

I am in the process of exciting a few brand new software engineers to start looking at the woof-CE code and convincing them that a full understanding of how it all works and IMPROVING it is a way to stand out in the job search.

Jasper wrote:

I do not believe for one moment that Elon Musk (substitute for any tech mogul) gets his hands dirty coding

Agreed 100%

I don't know from what point of view you are reasoning. I can say, I am an IT engineer, writing code is my hobby in which I improve over time. I can only say one thing: if a person is not interested in something, even if he is a programmer three times over and with 5 higher educations, he will not do what I will do with my 2 higher educations.

But as for promoting the OS, I think that for this there should be other people, not me.

@Sofiya

If your skill set is coding that's great. More importantly your ever improving the KL offerings and revising/adding to your contributions. As you said, you have an 'interest' in the OS.

Maybe as I suggested there could be a person who is au fait with social media could undertake this responsibility?