Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

using fossapup frugal

I have a second video card (basic nVidia, will do 3840x2160) apart from the internal Intel one which does 1920x 1080.

Xorg Video Wizard allows me to set a screen resolution of 3840x2160, but it has no effect. It still uses the Intel card and 1920x1080.

xrandr also only recognises the internal card and the 1920x1080 screen resolution.

BUT report-video DOES see both cards:

00:02.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller [8086:0152] (rev 09)
DeviceName: Onboard IGD
Subsystem: Dell Xeon E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller [1028:0577]
Kernel driver in use: i915
Kernel modules: i915

02:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: NVIDIA Corporation GK107 [NVS 510] [10de:0ffd] (rev a1)
Subsystem: NVIDIA Corporation GK107 [NVS 510] [10de:0967]
Kernel driver in use: nouveau
Kernel modules: nouveau

I tried setting the new card and driver in /etc/X11/xorg.conf with the following, setting ONLY the new card

Section "Monitor"
Identifier "Monitor0"
VendorName "Monitor Vendor"
ModelName "Monitor Model"
HorizSync 35-81
VertRefresh 29-31 # my card only does a frame rate of 30
EndSection

Section "Modes"
Identifier "Modes0"
#modes0modeline0
EndSection

Section "Device"
Identifier "Card0"
Driver "nouveau" #card0driver
BusID "PCI:2:0:0" #card0busid
EndSection

Section "Screen"
Identifier "Screen0"
Monitor "Monitor0"
Subsection "Display"
Depth 24 #screen0depth
EndSubsection
EndSection

Note the VertRefresh, because the external basic nVidia card only handles 30

This resulted in no output from either card.

/var/log/Xorg.0.log had no errors and no relevant warnings!
But it gave the following

[ 135.478] (II) NOUVEAU(0): Not using mode "3840x2160" (vrefresh out of range)
(and the same for every other mode!)
and later on
[ 169.600] (II) Server zapped. Shutting down.
...
[ 171.706] (II) NOUVEAU(0): NVLeaveVT is called.
[ 173.783] (II) Server terminated successfully (0). Closing log file.

I'm not sure if "Server zapped. Shutting down" was due to some sort of failure or from my 'poweroff' when I had a prompt or Ctrl-Alt-Del when I had no display at all (when using the (installed) nvidia driver).

report-video sees my xorg.conf but ignores the BusID of the external card. Or at least it uses glx and the intel driver:

Requested by /etc/X11/xorg.conf:
Resolution (widthxheight, in pixels): 3840x2160
Depth (bits, or planes): 24
Modules requested to be loaded: glx
Drivers requested to be loaded: intel

I think there may be a setting (in Grub?) that makes glx override things.

Can anyone tell me the settings I should use to use the external card, either with basic or automatic settings?

@grepnoke :-

Hm. Right; could you clarify something for us? When you say "external" GPU, are we talking about a GPU installed in one of these new-fangled external docks? Or are we talking about a purely dual-GPU machine?

If the latter, I believe there's something called "Bumblebee" to control/configure dual Intel & Nvidia GPUs within the same machine. I'm not at all certain whether any Puppy user has ever attempted to get this working, however.....so this could be new territory for all of us! Most of us have our hands full keeping older hardware functional, never mind fancy set-ups like yours.

Be patient. Others will be along sooner or later, who may know more about this than I do....

Mike.

When you say "external" GPU, are we talking about a GPU installed in one of these new-fangled external docks?

No, nothing fancy. It's a ten-year-old PC with basic Intel graphics on the motherboard. I bought a high-resolution monitor and had to add a new graphics card in one of the PCIe slots. That's all I meant by "external".

You need to install the Nvidia driver for your Nvidia card. It is not already in Fossapup64 9.5.

Nvidia does not have a driver that supports every possible Nvidia hardware.
So the drivers are built to support specific hardware.
Sure it will be a lot of the Nvidia cards, but as new cards come out, the newer drivers stop supporting very old cards.
Old drivers are not going to support very new cards.

Nvidia web site to search for what drivers will work for your specific card.
https://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us

However the info needed about the card is not this provided by you:

NVIDIA Corporation GK107 [NVS 510] [10de:0ffd] (rev a1)

what is needed is the specific model.
Example:
Geforce GT 640

There are a few different Nvidia drivers you can get by using the Quickpet program (icon on desktop)

Quickpet ->Drivers tab

Maybe the 450 driver will run your card.

Make sure you have a save file or folder loaded before installing a driver.

IF YOU INSTALL A DRIVER and it does not work.
It must be uninstalled before you can try a different one.

Fossapup64 has the universal driver nouveau to run Nvidia cards, but it is limited. (not sure how high resolution it can provide)

Because you have two possible ways to provide graphics.

In the computers bios setup.

Look for a way to select what hardware is to provide graphics.

Usually that will make sure the Nvidia card is used and not the integrated Intel graphics in the CPU.

I assume this is a desktop computer?

Thanks bigpup!

what is needed is the specific model

No, it really is a, in full, "nVidia Quadro NVS 510 2GB PCI-e 4x Mini DisplayPort Low Profile Graphics Card"

Yes it's a desktop. There are several drivers installed, including nv and nouveau. I'll need to check and report back.

I can't get the BIOS to use the new card, in addition or just that one. Or at least, I can set it, but it results in a black screen and requires a CMOS reset and risks losing all my other settings. Whatever the BIOS is set to (I guess both cards, I can check), my Ubuntu installation can switch to it after boot. That's a different question I'll need to ask elsewhere before long.

What may be wrong is the refresh rate. This low-end card only does 30Hz at max resolution, not the more usual 60Hz. I set it to 30 in xorg.conf but the "vrefresh out of range" lines logged suggest it hasn't taken. And before I knew this, setting it up on Ubuntu, I got the black screen.

I've just rerun hwinfo --monitor and it SAYS Resolution: 3840x2160@60Hz is a valid mode. But it doesn't work and the spec confirms 30Hz.

So I think the most likely cause is either that my xorg.conf is invalid and its vertical refresh setting is ignored, OR the EDID data is overriding the settings.

If you think this might be right, is there a boot setting to ignore EDID?

I'm not running the Puppy at the moment so will have to recheck things on that. Most of this is new to me so give me any commands to run and I'll report back with the relevant output.

@bigpup / @grepnoke :-

The OP's card is one of these, I believe (or similar):-

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvs-510.c1868

So the driver required would be this one:-

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverR ... 852/en-us/

.....the 470-series driver. NOT the very newest, but the last one to support this card. Doesn't really matter about older drivers for us; my old Dell Latitude uses an NVS-135m mobile GPU.....and the last driver to support these was the 340.108 one. It still works, and everything functions perfectly.

Mike.

Yes that's the one, and the driver is (or should be, will double-check) the 470.

This https://http.download.nvidia.com/XFree8 ... README.txt seems to explain why EDID is enforcing the wrong rate. I tried setting Option "UseEDIDFreqs" "false" in xorg.conf but that doesn't fix it. There seem to be many places where you can affect it, you need to find the right combination that actually works. Wouldn't it be nice if there was an Option "JFDI" "true".

Then again as someone said if I could work out how to safely change the BIOS to use the second card, all the other problems would probably go away. But that is a question for another forum!

@grepnoke :-

I tried setting Option "UseEDIDFreqs" "false" in xorg.conf but that doesn't fix it.

Let me sound a note of caution here. IF and when you decide to compile the appropriate driver for your NVS 510 - we'll walk you through this; it's not hard, because we have a utility that essentially does it all for you after assembling a few files & putting 'em in the right places! - do not, repeat NOT, allow the driver installer to re-write xorg.conf. Puppy's set-up is a bit unique.....if you let it re-write xorg.conf, you'll end up with a non-functional Puppy......or at least, one with no display at all, and you'll have to drop out to the console & try to repair the damage from there. At this stage, a re-install is usually on the cards (which doesn't take long with our Pup).

Whenever I set-up a new Puppy, I always make compiling the necessary driver for my GT 710 one of the first things on the list. If things are going to "go south", best to get it out of the way before you've really started to set things up. This way, you can always delete your 'save', start again from scratch, and you haven't lost much.

Make sense?

As bigpup says, the 450 driver .pet package in Quickpet - that PhilB compiled & put together for Fossa64 when he built it - will probably work fine for you.....and when using an Nvidia card under Fossa64 you DO need the official driver, because otherwise stuff like moving windows around, etc, is dreadfully laggy. I use that one myself, because unlike many others provided here on the forum it manages to correctly disable 'nouveau' in the process. All you need to do is to re-boot immediately after installing it.

Mike.

Got there! Thanks to @mikewalsh and @bigpup.

I installed the 450 driver from Quickpet. It wasn't installed before, was using Nouveau. But as I tried a new xorg.conf at the same time I can't be sure it wouldn't have worked with Nouveau, even if laggy.

I first used the Xorg wizard and set the offered 3840x2160. As before, this didn't fix it.

But then I manually edited xorg.conf, replacing the Device section with this one with the new driver and the second card's BusID.

Section "Device"
	Identifier  "Card0"
	Driver      "nvidia" #card0driver
	BusID       "PCI:2:0:0" #card0busid
EndSection

Then (which I hadn't tried before) I changed this in the Screen section, adding the '_30' after '3840x2160'.

Subsection "Display"
		Depth       24 #screen0depth
		Modes       "3840x2160_30" #screen0modes
	EndSubsection

Bootup screens still happen on the old card, but if I'm happy with the default boot it will time out and after a minute or so I get the desktop on the new card and screen.

My last question. Is there a boot option that would set the same settings as in my xorg.conf changes (including the 30Hz vertical refresh), so that boot screens will show on the new card?

I used to compile NVidia driver via getnvidia.pet

After sfs or driver build, dual monitor display and detail configuration,
NVidia display settings works like Windows do.

FYI:
https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=112284

Precise32, Xenial64 & Fossa64 all works!
Compiled for GT610(Fanless), GTX-750ti.

Choose correct NVidia official driver
for your graphic card is NECESSARY before compile.

Nvidia info PDF says this card can do 3840X2160 @60 HZ.

Bootup screens still happen on the old card, but if I'm happy with the default boot it will time out and after a minute or so I get the desktop on the new card and screen.

My last question. Is there a boot option that would set the same settings as in my xorg.conf changes (including the 30Hz vertical refresh), so that boot screens will show on the new card?

Are you saying after the boot menu shows, select entry to boot, the screen goes black, until it finally gets to the working desktop?

Thanks @bigpup

I've seen both 60Hz and 30Hz given as the max at 3840x2160 for this card, but only 30Hz has ever worked, on Ubuntu and Fossa. I can't interpret the parsed EDID data and some of the modes aren't being displayed. It looks like the EDID gives 60Hz and that is the one they try, but when I override it to 30, xrandr -q gives 30 as the recommended (and only) rate for 3840x2160.

The boot/GRUB/whatever initial screens go to HDMI. Nothing shows on the new card until the OS takes over and uses it and the settings I configured there.

To get me out of trouble, I have the old integrated card's DisplayPort going via a DP-to-HDMI cable to the new monitor's HDMI socket, as well as the new card DispayPort to DisplayPort. So I can see either card's output by switching the monitor source from DP to HDMI and back.

The BIOS (Dell Optiplex 7010 unpatched) is pretty basic. It does see both cards and gives the option to choose either or Auto. But when I tried (I think Auto) neither screen worked and I had to take out the CMOS battery to reset, something I'd like to avoid. No way (except maybe in Windows) to save the BIOS settings to file, and anyway I couldn't restore them with no working screen. I have it set to the internal Intel card so it's not surprising the boot screens go there! There's no visible way to set refresh rate in the BIOS and from past experience with Ubuntu and Puppy, they think they can use 60Hz and I have to force it to 30Hz.

Though the BIOS screens are at 640x480 or whatever initially and the new card can definitely handle that at 60Hz, so maybe it's not a vertical refresh question.

I realize this is straying well away from Puppy. I could try an nVidia forum next, but you did ask me and I'd appreciate any ideas.

As well as having little to do with Puppy, I now find that the cable is reported as not handling more than 30Hz refresh, despite being advertised as doing 60Hz.

There's some stuff in here about xorg.conf settings so the topic may have some use to someone.

As long as it boots to a boot loader boot menu, you can choose any of the entries, and Fossapup64 boots to a working desktop.

What you see as it boots is not something to be really a big issue.

Fossapup64 does go to a blank screen, normally at one point in booting, before showing the working desktop.

About 30Hz or 60HZ refresh rate.

You are assuming the monitor, Nvidia card, and cables attached between them are working 100%

Monitors have all kinds of internal settings.
Could check it's internal settings for anything that could help.

Just for my info.

Will you post the results shown in Pup-Sysinfo program ->Devices ->Display ->Summary. (you can copy and paste)

Here's the Display summary

Display
Resolution	3840x2160 pixels
Vendor	The X.Org Foundation
Version	1.20.8
Current Display Name	:0
Monitors
Monitor 0	3840x2160 pixels
OpenGL
Vendor	NVIDIA Corporation
Renderer	NVS 510/PCIe/SSE2
Version	4.6.0 NVIDIA 450.57
Direct Rendering	Yes
Extensions
Composite	
DAMAGE	
DOUBLE-BUFFER	
DPMS	
DRI2	
GLX	
Generic Event Extension	
MIT-SCREEN-SAVER	
MIT-SHM	
NV-CONTROL	
NV-GLX	
Present	
RANDR	
RECORD	
RENDER	
SECURITY	
SHAPE	
SYNC	
X-Resource	
XC-MISC	
XFIXES	
XFree86-DGA	
XFree86-VidModeExtension	
XINERAMA	
XINERAMA	
XInputExtension	
XKEYBOARD	
XTEST	
XVideo	
default screen number: 0	

I really do now think that it's the cable that can't handle the recommended mode, as many others report. That would fully explain why BIOS and OSes, following the correct EDID data, think they can use 60Hz, but it doesn't display.

I was probably unclear. I can see the BIOS/bootup screens using the HDMI connection to the old integrated card. And I've had to set the BIOS to use the old card, as it can't (or isn't) displaying on the new card.

When I get a proper DisplayPort cable in the next few days, I'll take the risk of removing the 30Hz override and, if that works, setting the BIOS to display to the new card, and I'm reasonably confident then that everything will display on the new card.

No, it's not the cable. At least, using a cable that I'm pretty sure would handle 60Hz hasn't fixed it.

The really strange thing is that when I first installed the card and monitor, the various utilities to display and set the valid modes DID include 60Hz, and now only include the 30Hz at this resolution.

Thanks @bigpup and @mikewalsh. I don't think this topic is relevant to Puppy and if you want to delete it, or you recommend that I do, please say so.