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This is for a Bookworm Pup64 frugal install on a hard drive:
Would the best way to make "Snapshots" of Bookworm Pup64 be to copy the save folder somewhere? Then if it would be desired to bring a past snapshot back just replace the existing save folder. Or is there a better way?
Thanks
Also is that the way to get rid of a current session -- just recall a previous version of the saved file?
Only other thing to make sure to do.
When you make a copy of the save file or folder.
Change the name so it is not seen as a usable save to use, to keep it from being accidentally used.
I add to the beginning of the copies name bak.
Example:
fossapup64save folder ->the working save being used.
bak.fossapup64save ->the copy of the save.
To turn it back into usable name, just remove bak.
Plus when I see the bak. in the name of the save file or folder, I know this is a backup copy of the save.
Saves are specific to the Puppy version they are made in.
That save only works for that specific Puppy version.
The save file or folder is the only thing that is read/write.
All the other files in the BookwormPup64 frugal install are read only.
They never change.
Only what is in the save changes.
Good idea to get a frugal install all set the way you want it making a save to store the changes.
Make a copy of the save, so you have a good working backup of the save.
If the save gets messed up.
Delete the bad one and replace it with the copy, to get back to fully working OS.
To use the backup copy of the save.
Choose to copy it to where the original save was located.
That way the backup copy save is still there to use again if needed.
Forum Global Moderator
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected 
@bigpup
I really like this kind of details to get me going. I was also wondering about if the save folder could be used somewhere else. You cleared that up that it is version specific to where they are made.
Thanks
Just to be sure you know:
Don't make a copy of a Save (File/or Folder) while it's being used. Generates errors, 'though they may be trivial. Rather first boot 'pfix=ram', or into a different Puppy.
Most new Puppys have 'Duplicate' on the Right-Click Pop-Up Menu. Does the job of copying easily. All you have to do is add identifying info to the copy to be created. It's only draw-back is it only copies to the same directory as the original. But as bigpup suggested just adding 'bak' at the beginning of the name will prevent it from being offered at boot-up. If you keep several back-ups, you might want to add additional identifying info: e.g. bak0307 -- the date; or bakWine -- includes wine.
as bigpup mentioned, if you use a name very similar for your backup, prepend your save backup with xxxbookwormpup.
the init can search for saves in various locations and might find a bookwormpupxxx
Most Puppy versions have the program Pupsave Backup.
It does exactly that. Makes a backup copy of the save file/folder.
It will work while running Puppy using the save.
Start the program and read the help, to see if that is the way you want to do it.
The help has cautions to follow to use it correctly.
Forum Global Moderator
The things you do not tell us, are usually the clue to fixing the problem.
When I was a kid, I wanted to be older.
This is not what I expected
Hello @JusGellin
I hope this info is helpful.
WoofCE versions of Puppy Linux have a perfect 'folder management', that it does, to address your opening post. It, at boot time, will list prior save-sessions if there are multiples. Its been this way for more years than I can remember.
In my case, I have a partition that I label Persistence. On that partition I keep ALL SESSIONS for ALL forum distros in a folder named "/Sessions". For a given PUP, I could have multiple prior sessions saved. AT boot-time, when multiples exist, they will be listed for my choosing. And the session will be saved appropriately at shutdown. For example
Thanks @Clarity
This looks like an excellent way of doing this. I like how you can select a session when you boot up.
When you shut down, does it automatically save a session or do you manually save?
@JusGellin
The shutdown-reboot processing is the same as it always is; namely if its pristine, it will create the new session in the psave folder you designated at system start. And, if already present, whichever session you had or selected at boot-time is the session it will save>to at shutdown.
Really simple system in practice.
@JusGellin
Just a word of caution:
If you are thinking of saving to a partition formatted with anything other than ext then Pupsave Backup will not work -
.
Also a Pupsave Backup will rename the save automatically so it is not called at bootup, so you have to rename for your own purpose -
Chelsea80
Chelsea80
BionicPup32+28 19.03 - Linux 4.9.163 - lxpup - 32-pae [i686] - (UPup Bionic Beaver)
Frugal Install - Internal HDD - Gateway MX8716b - HDD 120GB - RAM 2GB
Friendly-Bionic32 v1.1
USB Stick 2GB
If you are going to copy a save folder manually instead of using the Puppy backup utility, then you should probably use rsync and not just copy and paste.
@Clarity
WoofCE versions of Puppy Linux have a perfect 'folder management
Can this be used in other puppies? If so where can I get it?
Thanks
@JusGellin
Sure; all modern WoofCE are built with the ability at boot-time to find its sessions. It was implemented several years ago by a WoofCE developer @gyrog. It is the SAVESPEC file and PUPs will use it, when present with your ISOs to direct it to where to find prior Sessions, or store Session if booted pristine.
So, in the 'BOOTISOS' folder amidst all of my ISO files, there is a SAVESPEC file. So EVERY WoofCE PUP that is launched will use that file no matter if I boot pristine or if I have saved sessions prior.
Simply, it tells the PUP where to look for sessions.
Benefit: I never need to use the PSAVE= parm; thus I never change any PUP boot stanzas at all.
Check YOUR 'BOOTISOS' folder to see it one of the WoofCE PUPs you have booted, placed one in the folder for you. If not, I will provide one consistent with ALL of what has been shared with you.
This file, in my use, never has changed for the successes I have in WoofCE PUP booting.
@gyrog made a utility, BUT I AM UNAWARE IF WoofCE includes it somewhere in the ISOs it produces. He describes its presence and use, here on the forum
If you need a sample, I will share one that matches what is covered in this thread.
Let us know if you have a SAVESPEC file present in your BOOTISOS folder.
@Clarity
So far I've been using BookWormPup64 now 10.0.6. I've done a frugal install of this in kvm qemu virt-manager as a virtual machine with it's own hard drive. I've also recently done the same for F96-CE_4 and fossapup64-9.5. Are all of these considered WoofCE Pups?
Because I'm making all of these frugal installs, I just keep the isos in a separate folder with all my other isos. I don't have a BOOTISOS folder where the isos are kept nor a SAVESPEC file. The isos are just for installing.
Is it just that I'm missing some things to implement it?
Thanks
Hi @JusGellin
I need to reset my understanding as I 'thought' you were using Ventoy or SG2D for booting ISO file which, in and of themselves, are 'frugal' installs without its save session. When booted with its save sessions it is everything that a frugal provides and operates EXACTLY the same as we expect any forum distro to.
So let's clear the air so to speak for understanding of ISO file bootings ... even within a VM in relations to the SAVESPEC file as well as ability of the PUP to find the "sessions" location. The SAVESPEC file does EXACTLY the same thing that the PSAVE= ... parm does for the PUP at boot-time.
The BOOT at a PC start
A Ventoy disk (this applies to a SG2D disk as well) keeps all ISOs in the folder as we have discussed; namely on the Ventoy partiton within the BOOTISOS folder you created. When you boot the disk, your various ISO files you placed there will be listed for your selection to launch. It is within THAT folder you should have (or will have if this is a new boot of ANY recent WoofCE PUP) that the PUP will register and use for saving your session(s), if present.
During operation during the WoofCE linux INIT
While the PUP is booting, it will find and use the SAVESPEC to KNOW where you are keeping your sessions so that if present for that PUP if will find session(s) that you created prior.
What happens when this is done in a VM
QEMU can boot a Ventoy disk to desktop. And the PUP that was launched will find the session in the partition labeled Persistence as it scans the Session folder on that partition. This, of course, assumes you have formatted your qcow2 to have a partition labeled Persistence.
Thus booting from Ventoy/SG2D's disk on a bare-metal or a VM, the operations is EXACTLY. Further the above 3 items are only done ONCE in the lifetime of the PC you are using and forever-more boot WoofCE PUPs (and KLs too) never needing add or use a PSAVE=...
Repeating
Make you Ventoy and use forever (ONLY once adding as many ISO files of your choosing)
Make a system drive partition labeled Persistence with it having a folder named /Sessions (ONLY once and WoofCE and KLs will manage the sessions for you)
SAVESPEC (created ONCE and all SG2D booting PUPs will find the path to the sessions)
Some members are confused in this so I offer this as a summary: "Booting the ISO file directly and saving your session constitutes a complete frugal operation".
No magic in this. This is really-really simple.
If you are booting and/or using your Ventoy USB, and you run into ANY problems, please post. Otherwise given the conditions shown it could be very smooth sailing for all forum distros.
Let us know
@Clarity
So since I'm not booting from an iso but am using the install of a puppy as a virtual machine, the session manager really doesn't apply to what I'm doing, right?
I really didn't think I need to use Ventoy or the SG2D.
Yes, use of Ventoy-SG2D eliminates this 'install' task and all the issues associated with it. There's ONLY download the ISO file to the USB disk and boot the disk. You can boot the disk on bare-metal or within a VM. It works the same for either.
That's all there is to it.
If you need, we're here to help.
Hmmm. I never thought of that. So I could use Ventoy or SG2D in a VM to run the different isos of puppy. Is there an iso for SG2D to install as a VM?
Is that how you run yours -- you install Ventoy or SG2D on a bare metal computer or VM and then and then run the different puppy isos?
It's really interesting to learn the ways people are doing things.
Hi @JusGellin
OK, There is a thread on the forum that walks you thru what has been discussed here. Once you create your Ventoy disk add your BookwormPUP64 ISO to its BOOTISOS folder. The thread is merely wordy, but not complicated as it aims to be straight-forward.
Take a blank USB stick and go here to start. It guides with links. Dont hesitate to ask questions. You will make your Ventoy USB as described there ONCE. And forever-more you merely add any forum distro's ISO files and they will boot to desktop.
P.S. Others have used the procedure to get going. The instructions are geared specifically for booting distros found across the forum here in Puppyland. If there is a language barrier, I'll do what I can to help.
@Clarity
Thanks for the helpful information for using a usb stick for booting any iso. That is is a fascinating concept.
I do see the uses for this on a number of old pcs. I'm going to set this up for myself.
But I was trying to figure out how I had caused confusion for what I was doing.
@Clarity wrote:
I need to reset my understanding as I 'thought' you were using Ventoy or SG2D for booting ISO file which, in and of themselves, are 'frugal' installs without its save session.
I think it was because when I used kvm I meant Qemu Kernal Virtual Machine. Then I saw the links you gave me that seemed to refer to a physical Keyboard Video Mouse switcher in one of the diagrams it had.
No big deal. But I wanted to clear up how I was thinking.
You've been a great help for me to understand this all better and it makes me dig in deeper.
So now I see how this usb method really makes booting up isos more effectively. But I have noticed on the forum that Qemu is referred to quite a bit as well. How is this used instead of the bootable usb stick? I can see it seems the Qemu way would provide a way to have several isos booted at the same time on one computer while the host could be used along with it perhaps as just a desktop. That's the way I've been using it before.
Thanks
My BAD as my intent was for linux KVM versus a KVM device.
All is well though as I hope to be helpful on your current journey when I can.
Your Ventoy USB w/SG2D can be used to boot PCs (bare-metal) or virtual-PCs (VM). Thus over the forum on several occasions I have shared booting both ISO files directly or the Ventoy USB directly. The behavior within any VM is often a mirror of what occurs on bare-metal. If I have any boot problems for a given forum distro, I alert the distro developer of such. Reason: A forum distro 'SHOULD" boot no matter if its on bare-metal or within a VM. The distro developer(s) should know when any boot problems occurs, IMHO. Over the last 6 months on several occasions I have presented a table for some forum distros of what boots successfully and what doesn't.
I mainly try to be helpful to developers this way.
I'm so new to all of this and no doubt get things wrong at times. But now from your last post I see how you were helping me like I wanted. 
I don't mean to play this into the ground, but I feel at least for myself I just made a great breakthrough using Virt-Manager. I made a Ventoy usb stick with different pup isos. I then made a Virt-Manager virtual machine. I learned I could set it to boot off a usb flash drive. I didn't know that before. This works great. Now with Ventoy I can select any pup to boot up in the Virt-Manager virtual machine from the isos. Now I can look to do what you gave me links to look at to make the save sessions. I can now add more versions of puppy to see how they work. I just had to tell you.
Virt-Manager is such a great product for beginners like me to learn better how things work. I think Ventoy will help me a lot.
Thanks again.
I trust that you have found the boot-time menu that only occurs when you have multiple save folders?
one can make a copy with a slightly different name, and precede to make further mods with it while the first serves as a "snapshot"
... I think Ventoy will help me a lot.
Certainly from a productivity standpoint. Once done, BOOTISOS folder on the Ventoy partition of the USB AND a 'Sessions' folder on a system drive (or virtual drive) no need to revisit or change the overall structure of Ventoy use as a boot launcher of all there is on this forum. No more work in moving files out of an ISO...no more changes in any PUPs menu when launched...no more needing to tell where to save sessions...no more... as you merely download a distro deliverable (ISO/IMG) and boot.
The "Once done" is simply
USB with a partition labeled "Ventoy" having a folder named 'BOOTISOS'
HDD with a partition labeled "Persistence" having a folder named 'Sessions'
That is it: Useful, unchanged, forevermore!
Thus a workload reduction toward every frugal use of forum distros.
Enjoy
@Clarity
Clarity wrote:
Let us know if you have a SAVESPEC file present in your BOOTISOS folder.
I don't have this so can I get this?
Thanks
@Clarity
I'm having problems saving a session using Ventoy.
I've made a Ventoy stick.
Made folder called BOOTISOS on the first partition of it.
Placed isos into this folder - BookwormPup64_10.0.6.iso, fossapup64-9.5.iso
Place text file called SAVESPEC in the folder. It contains :
SS_ID='Persistence'
SS_DIR='/Sessions'
SS_MEDIA='atahd'
I used a laptop to test this on.
On the laptop I partitioned the hard drive giving it the name Persistence, ext4 type
Place folder on this drive called /Sessions
I booted up the Ventoy stick and selected BookwormPup
After it came up I made some changes.
Then shutdown.
I told it I wanted to save
Normal(no encryp)
ext4 for filesystem
Gave it name BookwormPup10.0.6
Changed folder to save to:
/mnt/sda1/Sessions
sanity check - yes, save
When I rebooted back up nothing was saved.
What am I not doing correctly?
Hmmm???
There is a bug in WoofCE PUPs and has been reported...again.
Here's a test I want you to run. (Well, actually not a test as it have been tested and used for years by myself or others for WoofCE PUPs)
Boot your Ventoy USB
Select the SG2D ISO/IMG file you have put in the BOOTISOS folder
Hit Enter key on the next Ventoy screen taking you to the SG2D's menu
Hit Enter key on SG2D's menu allowing it list all ISOs if finds
Scroll to the bottom of the list where your ISO files are listed
Select BKWP64 from the list. Do NOT change anything in its menu allowing the boot to operate on its own to desktop
It will boot BKWP64 pristine
Make your tailoring and when complete shutdown allowing BKWP64 to save your session. (Do not do a manual save as BKWP64 will properly handle everything for you.) BKWP64's last screen will show you the path that it will use to save your work. BKWP64 WILL save your work
Next Reboot your USB and follow the same steps as given above to boot SG2D and let me know. Your session will be present on your HDD and will be found during boot to desktop.
Again let me know. This is important as, afterwards, I will explain HOW to get around (circumvent) the WoofCE bug that exist when PUPs are launched from Ventoy USB.
