Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

I have been on a mission it seems to find the smallest fastest linux to install Waydroid and thus current Kindle4Android. All this cause stupid Amazon has once again made current generation Kindle4PC incompatible with WINE. They really should just made a linux version in first place.

Seems as far as I can tell at this point, Waydroid needs a linux with systemd. I first got it working on Fedora 39 workstation with GNOME. Ok, probably way to go if you have touch screen. GNOME Is touchscreen friendly, not so much for trackpad or mouse. Then got it going in MINT with cinnamon. Need weston compositor. Ok. Then tried on MX23. I couldnt get it to run until I booted MX with systemd option (it gives this option in GRUB menu). Then tried Bodhi, its up to v7 now. This thing has improved and very fast both to boot and to get to Waydroid Lineage desktop and Kindle4Android app. I mean Puppy kind of fast. I was impressed for a distribution based on current Jammy Ubuntu. Enlightenment-Moksha destop takes some getting used to and like all distributions has its quirks including some inherited Ubuntu quirks. But it has apt-get with Ubuntu repositories. Its speed and ability to run Waydroid has earned it a long term place on my most used laptop.

I messed some trying to get Waydroid to work on something in Puppy family, but so far havent succeeded. I think quite difficult since it doesnt use systemd. Though I read couple mentions of somebody using it in VOID, and I dont think VOID uses systemd. Correct me if I am wrong. Havent tried current VOID install yet. Oh and recently noticed a community editon of Manjaro that uses a i3-like Sway wayland compositor desktop. i3 is pretty unique, so a Sway version even more so. I imagine it should be very Waydroid friendly.

@mouldy Void Linux uses runit normally. The Kennel Linux's based on Void Linux all use runit for service control

There are some Kennel Linux's that now are pure Wayland and either Sway or a very nice KLV-HyprlandCE using Hyprland-Wayland-pipewire based on a Void Linux foundation and uses the XBPS package manager.

So has anybody gotten Waydroid working on the Kennel group, wayland or not? Or on Easy or Dog or any of the Pups? I mean Weston or Sway will install in non-systemd and provide wayland window, thats not the problem. Its whether Waydroid itself needs systemd or not. I have not seen actual documentation of Waydroid working in VOID or any other non-systemd linux. But just those couple vague mentions of it working in VOID, it is in the VOID repository. Seems strange they would offer it if it cant work in VOID.

But I am happy the way it works in Bodhi, rather have Waydroid in a Puppy or one of extended Puppy family but so far no mention of such on the forum that I have seen. And its not horrible in MX, MINT, or Fedora, just a little slower. Perfectly functional though especially since my prime use for it is a rather static app like Kindle ereader. Make a difference if one was using it for active game or something I am sure. And at this point pretty sure it can be made to work in any systemd linux if one has the patience. Well assuming such linux is using a kernel compiled to support android. I just dont know about it working in a non-systemd linux.

mouldy wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 1:10 am

So has anybody gotten Waydroid working on the Kennel group, wayland or not?

Yes, using my labwc sfs on a recent build of KLV. It seems not too difficult to get going. I installed F-Droid and that works. Probably use KLV-Hyprland I'd guess. Wayland is a prerequisite. Installs straight from xbps. Enable the service and away you go. There are docs on the waydroid website relating to Void.

Wow, been reading that thread on KLV-Hyprland and its progression, thats trippy. The new adventures of Puppy in space.... or Spot Rodgers in the 25th century... LOL But definitely going to be trying it.

please can you publish an ISO FILE that we can install apk file???
thanks

ljlj wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:34 pm

please can you publish
a ISO FILE that we can
install apk file???
thanks

I am sure one of the Kennel people could. But if you want an iso with pre-installed Waydroid now, go to the Waydroid website, they offer both Debian and Ubuntu versions isos for download with it installed. It will give you an idea of what Waydroid is like without much effort. I tried the Debian and yes it works, though wouldnt be my first choice. And remember Waydroid on an x86 computer can only run x86 Android apps. If you want to run ARM Android apps (most are ARM) you have to run Waydroid script to download and install the Houdini library. I think that Houdini library is in kind of a grey area about use why they do it this way, it was extracted from some Microsoft-Intel joint effort. I found it very easy to get Waydroid installed and running on Fedora 39 workstation with GNOME desktop. And it was whole lot nicer than that Debian preinstalled version from Waydroid site. I cant remember now, some reason I couldnt download the Ubuntu iso. Or think the site it was hosted on wanted too much hoop jumping. The Debisa version, no hassle downloading it.

mouldy wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:09 am

Wow, been reading that thread on KLV-Hyprland and its progression, thats trippy. The new adventures of Puppy in space.... or Spot Rodgers in the 25th century... LOL But definitely going to be trying it.

Ok did download and boot KLV-Hyprland. v3.6 Anyway its very i3-like and you definitely need a cheatsheet . Nothing at all intuitive about it. But I can see the advantage once one memorizes some of the keyboard shortcuts. Think you are looking at the not too distant future here though Swayland/i3 as-is never going to be widely popular with average user. So I will play with it some more before I try installing Waydroid.

KLV-HyprlandCE can resize the tiled windows on the fly when using the mouse to drag resize a particular window. Hyprland and act both as a tiling and stacking window manager, so in effect is a hybrid. It's easy to use floating windows and reposition them anywhere on the desktop screen(s) and resize them in a float mode.

It's a surprisingly versatile window manager/compositor. Does take some getting use to it but heard often that those who do far prefer the hybrid tiling/stacking WM's for doing real production work.

Hyprland does well setting up multiple monitors if available.

The best performing system in a high performance world is KLV-Spectr. The Spectrwm window manager is far more basic but very light and extremely responsive. It will be interesting to see how Hyprland performs under heavy work loads.

mr mouldy
when you make iso file,please,
publish it.
i wish to use android apk files...
opera mini apk and others
thanks

rockedge wrote: Fri Feb 02, 2024 6:09 pm

@mouldy Void Linux uses runit normally. The Kennel Linux's based on Void Linux all use runit for service control

There are some Kennel Linux's that now are pure Wayland and either Sway or a very nice KLV-HyprlandCE using Hyprland-Wayland-pipewire based on a Void Linux foundation and uses the XBPS package manager.

Of course, the other thing we can do here in KL-land is take Bodhi and firstribit (per weedogit of before). Already did exactly that in the past. The result is a fully working Bodhi root filesystem with whatever goodies that brings along with full KL frugal install functionality including all the save on demand 'tricks' and roll-back files and multi-instance capability. Can also take an existing full-installed Bodhi (or most any other mainstream or other distro) and toggle that into a KL frugal install (whilst keeping the original full-install Bodhi intact per normal - like having two distros, one frugal, and one proper full-install, with choice of which to use at boot time. All of these matters have already been used, tried, tested and work well. However, as I've said before I'm not able to return to that work, in terms of new versions and polish, until end of coming March. Then a new firstribit script will be released (replacing old weedogit) as a priority, including Bodhi choice. Until then, it remains pretty easy anyway to extract the Bodhi root filesystem and boot that via FirstRib initrd; could use huge kernel and associated modules/firmware, or, modify the FR initrd to include Bodhi modules and use default Bodhi kernel (which is the original weedogit method). Either way, you benefit by getting all the KL frugal install advantages. Overall, KL via FirstRib provides many alternative ways of doing things:

optional full2frugal
optional multi-instances
All KL/FR install types (including above) provide per usual: save on demand (RAM2 mode) and optional roll-back mechanisms and so on

Whole point of KL/FR way of doing things is to allow users to use existing root filesystems or to build new root filesystems from scratch per their needs. End result is you can leverage not only usage of upstream repos via official package managers, but also leverage from everything being done by upstream development teams without having to reinvent wheels, but if you really want to use your own underlying system scripts instead of those maintained by upstream you are free to do that in FirstRib KL development as well. Though thus far we tend to leverage from the likes of upstream Void Linux maintained and developed system scripts such as runit rather than taking on the task of providing our own system run scripts. Overall all we prefer having full multi-user capability - makes life easier nowadays overall and reduces our dev burden and risk.

ljlj wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2024 7:58 am

mr mouldy
when you make iso file,please,
publish it.
i wish to use android apk files...
opera mini apk and others
thanks

LOL, I am not part of Kennel creator folk and have limited data per month to work with. Still on learning process just like I went through with WINE way back when. Honestly though its not that hard to install say MINT or Bodhi and install Weston and Waydroid on those. But yea I agree a small distribution with Waydroid including Houdini would be useful. Especially a portable one. I get yet more experience with Waydroid (in a non-systemd linux) and maybe. Like say I can see a portable linux with Waydroid being quite useful.

I mostly got interested in Waydroid in order to run the Kindle4Android app since the latest generation of Kindle4PC no longer works in WINE. Beyond that dont care that much about Android apps. Many are little clunky unless you have a touch screen. Some really only work in small phone size screen which you can set with Weston options. Weston is a wayland compositor and one usually used in standard x11 linux system for Waydroid. Please understand Waydroid uses a rather large image file of Lineage Android 11. So installing Waydroid to run something like the mini opera apk probably not worth it. Also this wont work on any computer without SSE4.2 So if you have older computer it may not work. You need to check if your computer's processor supports that. I can guarantee if you dont have UEFI bios that it wont work. I really rather not use Waydroid for Kindle app but Amazon in all its wisdom has made this only way to read Kindle books offline with linux.

For now you have two ways to deal with running Android apps on older x86 computer. You can install Android x86 Classic, its a old 32bit version Android 7 I think. It will run apps made for Android 7 and earlier. There is NO SSE4.2 requirement. I tried it and found it a bit twitchy and unstable. I also recently read that PrimeOS which is 64bit version Android 10 or 11 I think has managed to eliminate the SSE4.2 requirement. Cant confirm this since I havent tried it. Though be aware some android apps have their own SSE4.2 requirement built in. Its an arbitrary requirement, so not really needed but as long as its there not much you can do to get around it. PrimeOS is from India, assume there is demand there to run android apps on older computers.

So what I am saying Waydroid or indeed Android x86 is lot like WINE, its not an exact science. Though since Waydroid uses Lineage which is an actual version Android, it works better than WINE approximation of windows which tries to avoid violating any windows copyrights. But there are lot ifs and maybe's depending on your computer hardware. If you can install it and it runs most likely it can run the apps you desire.

I am loathe to suggest windows to anybody, but there are unofficial n-lited versions. I found one called Tiny10. Even as small as it was, it was still sluggish IMHO. But it would run current Kindle4PC i just dont like going that way. And for your needs maybe Tiny10 plus BlueStaks android emulator would work? I dont know if it can run BlueStaks or not. But it might. Oh also read of somebody getting some version BlueStaks emulator running in WINE. I tried that but nope, planets must just all aligned for that guy to get it work, meaning a particular version BlueStaks and a particular version WINE. I kinda have feeling if one did get it to work it would be SLOW. I mean you are adding layer upon layer for anything to happen. I only tried it cause frankly Kindle app is at heart an ereader so not resource or speed dependent.

Oh for the pre-installed Waydroid on Debian and Ubuntu, go here and click download now, you will then get popup with links. https://waydro.id/#install Note these two must be installed for Waydroid to work in them, it wont work in live mode. Though ... might try in ventoy.... but anyway. There you go. Dont expect me to produce a Puppy related iso with Waydroid soon... LOL. I have it working on Fedora, MINT, MX23, and Bodhi, thats it right now. This is lot info posted here by Rockedge, 01Micko, and Wiak for me to digest and experiment with. And honestly think it would be kinda cool to have it working in EasyOS or one of the Pups. But thats a long way away if its me doing it. Small steps. But useful knowledge to have.

Oh one possibility, a cousin of Debian Dog is SparkyBonsai, unlike Debian Dog, it uses systemd. Now it hasnt been updated for a while so not sure if linux kernel it uses supports android, but if it does then it could probably run Waydroid. No idea if one could update the kernel in it without breaking it.

Not a good place to post this on Puppy forum so will here. I though, hmm, maybe first step is to install actual VOID linux on a drive and try to get waydroid working on it. That will show if it can work on non-systemd or not. So got their Xfce version iso and did this. No problem installing weston and waydroid via VOID package manager. However weston wouldnt open a window, seems its version 13, it was version 8 in the Ubuntu based distributions. Anyway had no x11 backend. I tried copying the x11 backend from Bodhi, nope. Version 13 didnt like the backend from version 8 and complained of bunch missing libraries. Seems some packagers think people shouldnt use the x11 backend with weston so dont compile it....

So installed Sway. It will open a window in VOID, no problem with window in x11 system, and I can move it around, maximize it, etc. However trying to run waydroid, get error it cant find the socket for wayland, and "are you running a wayland compositor?" Yes, but no idea how to get Sway to establish a socket or one that waydroid can find. Just saying none of this is terribly friendly to somebody just wanting to run a couple android apks in linux.

Oh I also found a non-puppy pupp called Puppex Jammy, supposed to be based on VanillaPup and Fred's dog script. Anyway its actually quite nice. Very Puppy-like. Weston 8 from Ubuntu repository via apt-get works. But the kernel used doesnt have the modules necessary for android. I could install Waydroid, again from Ubuntu but it popped up errors about the missing modules when I tried to run "waydroid init -f". When try to add modules, complains of missing kernel headers??? And no info on replacing the kernel. Even though it supports apt-get very well, you cant replace the kernel with generic Ubuntu kernel via apt-get, it will error out when it tests it and keep the one it came with.

@mouldy have you tried to use modprobe to load the missing modules? Kernel may have them, just not loaded at boot.

rockedge wrote: Sat Feb 10, 2024 1:58 pm

@mouldy have you tried to use modprobe to load the missing modules? Kernel may have them, just not loaded at boot.

~$ modprobe ashmem_linux
modprobe: FATAL: Module ashmem_linux not found in directory /lib/modules/6.1.12-exton
~$ modprobe binder_linux
modprobe: FATAL: Module binder_linux not found in directory /lib/modules/6.1.12-exton
~$

Hmm, yesterday used dd to clone the Bodhi/Waydroid/Kindle drive to an external usb SSD. "dd" isnt bad for speed if you make block size reasonable (I used bs=10M), not the tiny default. Used pv to show progress. Anyway perfect copy and lot less hassle than Clonezilla.

I booted it on HP Stream, one of those cloudbooks with celeron processor. It booted ok and Bodhi was ok. Waydroid took while to get to Lineage desktop. But yea this is slow proccessor and booted from usb. Then clicked on the Kindle4Android app. Up pops the splash screen with the boy reading under a tree. And thats where it stayed. Wouldnt go further. Now I also tried and could use that android Firefox browser. Firefox is an x86 Android app and Kindle is an ARM android app. So? does Houdini need more processing power that celeron cant supply?

Now this same usb SSD plugged into an i5 laptop and booted, no problem, easily got past the Kindle splash screen and let me have access into Kindle library, yes all the downloaded books. So not a problem from the cloning.

JUst mentioning this for anybody thinking Waydroid is great idea on a computer with slow processor. But hey it may work on some, who knows. Be prepared for slow mode. Most of my computers are older and without the SSE4.2 support for processor, so Waydroid cant run on them anyway. I think it could do fine on my core2duo desktop if not for that.

Maybe today try booting it on one of ex-Chromebooks. Also celeron so be good check on results. Suppose it could be something peculiar to that Stream.

Ok, just tried it on a Dell ex-Chromebook. Just like the Stream, stalls on the Kindle splash screen. The Dell seems wee bit faster than the Stream, otherwise about the same.

Ok, was curious. This time downloaded PrimeOS 2.1.3 beta, its another android 11 for x86 but includes houdini I think, least some conversion layer to run ARM android apps on x86 system.

So downloaded, just burned the iso to a dvd and booted from that on the Stream. Took long time to boot up, but its from dvd on a usb dvdrom so... Up, fine. Install the Kindle apk. Fine. Start Kindle, it starts so fast dont even see the boy under tree splash screen. I am in Kindle. No problems.

So folks if you want to run android apps on a low end processor on cheap cloudbook/netbook, this is probably best way to do it, though you probably want to install it to usb drive or internal eMMC drive, so it retains any changes you make. Now why I can boot android x86 from a dvd in live mode and do Kindle, but Waydroid got stuck loading Kindle on full install????

This was newest version PrimeOS I found and its two year old. I am guessing this isnt the mentioned 64bit version that bypasses the SSE4.2 requirement. That must be some still rare alpha version or something. But I will try this and keep eye out if a newer version shows up. I do like the PrimeOS 2.1.3 desktop better than the BlissOS v14 desktop or the Lineage desktop that Waydroid uses. Easier to navigate with keyboard and mouse.

moudly,do you have a new iso with waydroid ...of 01micko?

LOL, not yet, I like Waydroid, but I have found for it to work you really need something faster than a celeron. It works fine on my i5 and i7 laptops. Really nice on the i7. But on celeron, I booted a usb SSD clone of Bodhi with waydroid. Bodhi ok on this computer. After a wait, got into Waydroid. Could use the android Firefox, but when I tried Kindle it stalled on the splash screen with the boy reading under a tree. Not good. Oh I did at one point get beyond the splash screen but the Kindle app immediately crashed and disappeared. So big fail.

However I dug out another HP Stream (yes I have too many old computers nobody else wanted). It has Lubuntu 18.04 on it. Used to take it to library and Lubuntu great with wifi. I didnt really want to delete Lubuntu and contents. So, I found this: https://itsfoss.community/t/install-pri ... istro/7405 Much like Puppy you create a directory, put the components of PrimeOS into it (unarchive the iso) and create an empty folder in this directory and name it "data", Lubuntu does have GRUB2 so.... And saw progress on BookworkPup so installed it the same way. LOL. So now even though the Stream only has 32GB eMMC, it has three bootable operating systems. I like BookwormPup 10.0.6 by the way. Having apt-get is great. It can successfully install frozen-bubble....!!!!

Downside of this method, you do have to reboot into PrimeOS 2.1.3 (android 11). But done like this android is usable on a mimimal two core celeron computer. I am at PrimeOS desktop in 15seconds from GRUB menu. And to my Kindle library soon after that. BookwormPup takes about same time booting to desktop on the Stream.

Would I prefer Waydroid, sure, its kinda cool to just toggle between linux and android, but I think at least at this point Waydroid is limited to faster computers. Any computer to boot 64bit android needs its processor to meet the SSE4.2 standard. Be aware it took AMD longer to fully support this standard so before even trying a 64bit android make sure your processor supports that standard.

Also mention Android x86 only offers upto android 9 at this point. They however do offer an rpm package that does what the article above describes only automagically via a script even updating GRUB and creating an entry for Android x86. You can use it in Ubuntu/Debian via "alien". I found though android 9 meets minimum standard for current Kindle4Android, Kindle app is CRASHY on it. Kindle app perfectly fine on Waydroid/Bliss/Prime with android 11. Oh I like the desktop on PrimeOS best but its Google-centric. I disabled the Google stuff and sideloaded Firefox. Bliss is Google-free by default. But the desktop is bit clunkier to interact.with using keyboard and mouse.

Interesting, BookwormPup has the binder_linux module. No ashmem_linux but seems Debian has discontinued it in Bookworm, and it maybe not needed anymore for Waydroid. So for kicks tried installing weston and waydroid. Weston installs easily and you type weston in a terminal and up pops the Weston window. Good sign. Waydroid is easier cause Puppy doesnt make me hoop jump to add repository like Ubuntu and its derivatives. Now since binder is there I can initialize waydroid. But "waydroid first-launch" throws up errors. Container not listening... I am guessing cause Puppy doesnt use systemd. But not sure. Probably wanting a service somewhere. I just dont find a good explanation of using Waydroid without systemd. I think its possible cause VOID doesnt use systemd and it apparently can work there. I didnt get it working in VOID either but that was cause of problems with version Weston they had in their repository.

Just a couple of comments. I'm using PrimeOS on a dual core laptop to access my Wyze Cam2 security cameras, seems Wyze doesn't think a PC app version is necessary. Prime is the only one I've been able to get working for Android apps.

With regard to cloning drives, take a look at this topic, Foxclone is far better than Clonezilla, whose user interface gives new meaning to "non-intuitive".
viewtopic.php?t=10832

Thanks
wizard

wizard wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 4:11 pm

Just a couple of comments. I'm using PrimeOS on a dual core laptop to access my Wyze Cam2 security cameras, seems Wyze doesn't think a PC app version is necessary. Prime is the only one I've been able to get working for Android apps.

With regard to cloning drives, take a look at this topic, Foxclone is far better than Clonezilla, whose user interface gives new meaning to "non-intuitive".
viewtopic.php?t=10832

Thanks
wizard

BlissOS works fine, just that I found the PrimeOS easier to interact with using mouse and keyboard. Waydroid and Bliss are by same developers I think. My notion from playing with android on an x86 computer in several ways, it maybe Houdini that causes some slow down problems. So on low end system, linux+android+houdini maybe too much. Houdini lets you run android apps for ARM processor on an x86. There are a few android apps made for x86. Remember I mentioned I did boot Bodhi on the Stream with 2core celeron. And got Waydroid opened. Well the android version Firefox on there is an x86 app. It started and ran ok. But Kindle for Android which should be a less resource intensive app, is an ARM app so uses Houdini.

It stuck on the Kindle splash and couple times I got beyond that the Kindle app crashed and disappeared. Meaning likely Houdini translation needed more resources than the low end celeron could handle.

Like most things the devil is in the details and there are lot details.

Right now for most people I suggest using that article to install PrimeOS (or BlissOS) in a directory in your linux install with GRUB2. Just reboot into Prime or Bliss. This is simple and takes the least resources. Done like this its much like frugal install Puppy.

But if you want Waydroid. Like mentioned before, I found it by far the easiest to install in Gnome version Fedora 39. Gnome has the "Mutter" wayland compositor built in. If you have touch screen its easy to toggle back and forth. Less convenient trying to do this with mouse or trackpad. Unlike Debian/Ubuntu, you dont have to do all the hoop jumping adding an extra repository.

Non Gnome/KDE really need systemd and Weston wayland compositor. Sway should work, no problem installing it and running it getting screen to popup, but I never got Waydroid to see and use it.

Oh ran across an OS called BlendOS. Its supposed to be a containerized version blending from different linux and android. 3GB iso so ??? Just downloaded it so may play with it some.

But the smallest so far is Bodhi that I got weston-Waydroid working. Its really fast on my older i7 laptop and Waydroid desktop in like 3 seconds. MINT and MX (MX booted with systemd option) work fine too. Just not as fast.

Without systemd, not sure Puppy can ever run Waydroid. Probably best Puppy-ish way would be Fred's script to build custom Bookworm Dog with systemd. I havent tried but assume you could maybe keep Debian systemd as option? Someone cleverer than me probably can make Waydroid work without systemd. I just know on MX23, without systemd option, it was problematic much like I just ran into on BookwormPup. When I rebooted with the MX systemd option, then easy peasy just like MINT and Bodhi. MX is great way to test stuff cause it can boot either way, your choice.

Oh I messed with Clonezilla some. But honestly dd is easiest for me and nearly every linux distribution out there already has it. I will look at Foxclone. never heard of it before. Always nice to have options.

Ok, I had used Fred's Dogs in past, but never used his script to create one. If folks arent aware, he has an appimage version of the script that you just have to make bootable and then make few choices, including whether to have systemd or not, then away you go all automagical. Seriously Fred has made this about as easy as it gets.

So out pops a Bookworm Dog iso. Has a browser and not much else. Thats fine its small. After a fail with it on a old thumbdrive. That thumbdrive is seriously slow. I put it on the Stream with Lubuntu, PrimeOS, and BookwormPup. By way it doesnt play friendly in the "puppies" folder, wants its own doghouse. But hey it boots and off to races. Remember this has systemd.

Install weston and it works fine. Add the repository (look on Waydroid site for installation to Debian/Ubuntu). I keep copy of the lineage image files and manually install them to Waydroid, copying them to /etc/waydroid-extra/images, and then using the optional "waydroid init -f" command. Great. Bring up weston screen, from inside weston screen use the terminal at top left of screen and type "waydroid first-session". And Lineage android splash screen comes up filling the weston screen. The little circles crossing the curved line start. At eight seconds all three circles stop on the curve evenly spaced and word LINEAGE shows, then Lineage should go to desktop, but instead crashes (the HP Stream RAM is maxed out). Pretty soon the little circles crossing the curved line start again, but thats it, they continue like that forever. I open another terminal from the left top of weston screen and "waydroid session stop" And then close weston. Remember on this same Stream, I have just plugged in SSD with Bodhi/Waydroid and Waydroid does go to desktop (slowly) and I can use the android x86 version Firefox. But Bodhi doesnt hog the RAM. Though once I open the arm app Kindle, then that puts things over the top and Kindle crashes. Most likely due to need for Houdini to translate ARM app.

Ok Bookworm Dog is maxing memory for some reason. Otherwise it should work. To actually use this either need more RAM or maybe do the rare full install that few do with Puppy or Dog anymore. Pretty sure it will work that way. I misplaced my spare SSD so ordered couple more smallish used ones to use in my experiments. Waiting on those. I will install one of those on i5 desktop computer and play some more with Dog and Waydroid. First just moving frugal Dog to the SSD since it already has everything installed in changes file. Then probably do a full install of Dog. That in effect should just be a minimal install of Debian. I am pretty sure Waydroid will work on my custom DOG with systemd. They dont come out and tell you systemd is a requirement, but in my experiences, it is required. I couldnt get Waydroid working on MX until I booted MX with the systemd option. Far as I know, MX is only linux distribution giving you this option to choose. And not locked into it, can switch back and forth. just reboot.

But yea really looks like Waydroid does indeed need systemd. I need to see if I can find why Dog is being so greedy with RAM in frugal mode. I suspect its trying to hold bunch stuff in RAM rather than saving it as it goes.

mouldy wrote:

I need to see if I can find why Dog is being so greedy with RAM in frugal mode

Which one is that you tested ? (so I can try to reproduce and find what's possibly wrong).

fredx181 wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:10 pm

mouldy wrote:

I need to see if I can find why Dog is being so greedy with RAM in frugal mode

Which one is that you tested ? (so I can try to reproduce and find what's possibly wrong).

Its just vanilla version Bookworm Dog with systemd and JWM. Nothing special. Popped out with Firefox and not much else. And its combination of it plus low spec laptop trying to do Waydroid. So sure its usually fine otherwise, though I have BookwormPup on same laptop, in frugal mode and it doesnt seem to max out the RAM trying to do same things. Course it also doesnt have systemd so cant get Waydroid to work, least so far havent figured out a way on non-systemd systems.

I was truly impressed with your appimage build script. Had never tried it before, dont know how you could made it any easier.

My guess is Bookworm Dog is trying to hold whole session in RAM and waiting until shut down to save it. I had to reboot several times just installing weston/waydroid, cause it ran out space. Thus my old brain thinking this is instance where it probably be best to do a full install. Or maybe there is some option I am not seeing to make it write to changes folder more often and not wait?

@mouldy :

Or maybe there is some option I am not seeing to make it write to changes folder more often and not wait?

Yes .....there is a Trick/Option to write changes (temporary or permanently) directly to your changes folder (Drive).

Show your Boot "menu.lst" .

Using GRUB2 to boot.

menuentry "BookwormDog - savefolder" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set abac19f0-bb6a-44ee-8847-61f0b4855b12
echo "Loading vmlinuz"
linux /live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/ changes=EXIT:/changes
echo "Loading initrd1.xz"
initrd /live/initrd1.xz
}

@mouldy

changes=EXIT:/changes

With "EXIT" the changes are running in RAM so when installing many applications you can run out of space soon if you don't have much RAM.
Better then without EXIT : changes=/changes (changes are saved directly, not running in RAM).
There's also the +EXIT option e.g. changes=+EXIT:/changes, perhaps the 'trick' that backi meant, same as EXIT, save at shutdown, but changes are NOT running in RAM.
(but frankly this hasn't been much tested)
====================================================================
EDIT: (btw, sorry for the off-topic) Tested +EXIT again and works well, I have my 'live' folder in "BW64", grub.cfg entry:

menuentry "BW64 +EXIT" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 34b10665-11c5-493c-9bff-f4f1e7db86f2
linux /BW64/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/BW64 changes=+EXIT:/BW64
initrd /BW64/live/initrd1.xz
}

A 'tmp-changes' AND a 'changes' folder will be in the same dir as specified (BW64):

====================================================================
Note that the 'changes' folder will be automatically created inside the path you specify.
But the path you specify must exist already. (in your case a 'changes' folder on the root of a Linux partition, so then in reality you get /changes/changes).

fredx181 wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:06 am

@mouldy

changes=EXIT:/changes

With "EXIT" the changes are running in RAM so when installing many applications you can run out of space soon if you don't have much RAM.
Better then without EXIT : changes=/changes (changes are saved directly, not running in RAM).
There's also the +EXIT option e.g. changes=+EXIT:/changes, perhaps the 'trick' that backi meant, same as EXIT, save at shutdown, but changes are NOT running in RAM.
(but frankly this hasn't been much tested)
====================================================================
EDIT: (btw, sorry for the off-topic) Tested +EXIT again and works well, I have my 'live' folder in "BW64", grub.cfg entry:

menuentry "BW64 +EXIT" {
insmod ext2
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root 34b10665-11c5-493c-9bff-f4f1e7db86f2
linux /BW64/live/vmlinuz1 noauto from=/BW64 changes=+EXIT:/BW64
initrd /BW64/live/initrd1.xz
}

A 'tmp-changes' AND a 'changes' folder will be in the same dir as specified (BW64):
Screenshot.png
====================================================================
Note that the 'changes' folder will be automatically created inside the path you specify.
But the path you specify must exist already. (in your case a 'changes' folder on the root of a Linux partition, so then in reality you get /changes/changes).

.
Thanks. I had seen that EXIT in the GRUB2 suggested entry and had never seen it in any other entry, so just left it. Nice to know it actually had a purpose unlike some GRUB2 stuff. Anyway without that, Dog is acting much more like I would expect.

Writing this from browser in Waydroid. So yes Waydroid will work in Bookworm Dog with systemd. Yes on the HP Stream. Some oddities, I cant seem to get to Lineage settings like usual in the Lineage desktop. The browser is really snappy so assume this bodes well. I havent installed Houdini yet so cant try Kindle, which is pretty much my only reason for this obsession with Waydroid and PrimeOS and BlissOS. Figured pointless unless I got Waydroid working. Which I have. Nothing is ever simple with waydroid, adding Houdini requires yet another script to install. Without Houdini, Waydroid cant do android ARM apps, only android x86 apps.