Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

This is gonna be a little technical, so unless you want to geek out, you may not want to read it. This is ASUS BIOS on B360 chipset.

There's many settings in BIOS regarding UEFI/secure boot and so forth. It's not just one setting you turn on or off.

Right now I'd like to be able to try some non-UEFI pups or even have a fighting chance at taking a look at some 32-bit Pups on my 64-bit machine.

I supposedly have a CSM (compatibility support module) but what I think the problem is, is that the CSM only works in conjunction with "Windows UEFI". I have the setting for "Windows UEFI" switched to "Other OS". If I change it to Windows UEFI then it doesn't like my Puppy Grub or rEFInd, despite having a puppy.cer on the Puppy grub.

Other changes I made in an attempt to give non-UEFI / older pups a chance to run on my machine.

Advanced>USB Configuration>Legacy USB Support>Enabled
Advanced>USB Configuration>XHCI Handoff>Enabled
Advanced>System Agent>Above 4G Decoding>Disabled
Boot>CSM>Launch CSM>Enabled
Boot>CSM>Boot Device>UEFI & Legacy BIOS
Boot>CSM>Storage Device>Legacy only

One thing I could try is rolling back the firmware, since I upgraded it to 3202 I can't change the TPM from firmware to discrete. The firmare one is Intel built-in, the discrete is a set of pins on the motherboard with nothing connected. I used to be able to switch it to discrete and truly disable secure boot entirely. Now, secure boot is technically enabled, but doesn't really do anything because I have it set to "Other OS" instead of "Windows UEFI. Well, that's what I think anyway....

Anybody have any ideas before I try rolling back the firmware version?

There's another setting under Advanced somwhere, something like "trusted computing" I have that disabled and I don't think enabling it will help me, but I could try it.

Here is my wildest guess:

That’s from another source of course. It’s not like I know anything about Linux!

“For booting Linux on a UEFI computer, you typically need to set the "esp" (EFI System Partition) flag on the partition where the EFI system files are located. Additionally, you might need to ensure that your system is set to boot in UEFI mode rather than Legacy/BIOS mode.

Keep in mind that the specific requirements can vary depending on the Linux distribution and the UEFI implementation on your computer. It's advisable to check the documentation of the Linux distribution you're using for any specific instructions related to UEFI booting.”

@Insanitor flag is/was set on EFI partition. My options are EFI-only or CSM (compatibility support module) which is still EFI but supposedly adds compatibility for "Legacy BIOS". When I enable CSM, there are some sub-settings.

Enabling CSM does not seem to be helping me, my hypothesis is that it can only work with "Windows UEFI". That is another setting which is either "Windows UEFI" or "Other OS".

The other thing I referred to was the TPM module, which was where I used to be able to disable secure boot alltogether. However, doing so would prevent me from upgrading Win10 to Win11 or installing Win11. I can no longer do that, and I think it's because I upgraded the firmware version of my BIOS.

If that's confusing to you, join the club.

My goal right now is to find the combination that gives me best chance to boot the widest range of Puppy Linux. Older ones, newer ones, well-developed ones, not well-developed ones, and so forth.

That is another setting which is either "Windows UEFI" or "Other OS".

Other OS is what you need to set it to for booting Puppy.

CSM mode should make the UEFI bios work like legacy bios.
That also usually disables secure boot automatically. (the UEFI setup will still probably display options for secure boot, but CSM overrides them)
Really depends on the UEFI bios version, what the manufacture of the computer, tweaked it to have for settings,

Also make sure the UEFI bios setup has booting from USB device enabled. A lot of them have option to enable or disable USB booting.

What specific Puppy version will boot on the computer depends on the Puppy version having a Linux kernel and firmware to support the computers specific hardware.

The older computers have more support, because their hardware was around, when the specific older Puppy version was developed.

Very new computers are only going to be supported, if the Puppy version is one of the newer or newest ones.

I have a very new computer and Fossapup64 9.5 is as old a Puppy I can get to boot on it.
But the hardware support is not that good.
Hardware that can run on generic drivers and firmware works, but not providing full capability of the hardware.

The very newest Puppy versions, with series 6 Linux kernel, and much newer firmware, provide full feature hardware support.

The older the computer and the newer the Linux kernel being used, can also be a factor, in supporting hardware in very old computers.
They do drop old hardware support, when a newer Linux kernel comes out.
However, they do seem to do it for really, really old hardware. (hopefully)

@bigpup Okay, so there's a lot of pups that it just isn't gonna happen with on my machine, and tweaking around the secure boot BIOS won't help? I tried a couple very old ones as a dumb experiment and wasn't surprised they wouldn't work. But then I tried Rahr (Puppy 6.5.01 IIRC) a 64-bit pup based on Ubuntu 16.04. I sort of thought I should be able to boot it with CSM Legacy BIOS support. I think I was unable to boot xenialpup as well. Maybe I should try it again with my new settings and see if it made a difference?

Hello @trawglodyte. Your OP shows this Advanced>System Agent>Above 4G Decoding>DisabledHave you considered 'enabling"?

Lastly, I ask you to try this forum distro booting its ISO from GRUB2 native or via your Ventoy USB you have. It is one forum distro that boots without firmware changes on Windows platforms.

Curious

@Clarity I temporarily set Above 4G decoding to disable. Generally leave it to enable which allows Intel's Re-Size bar. Which can be helpful for GPU, particularly Intel's Arc GPUs. I'm going to try out the Fatdog64-901 you suggested right now! Thanks. I really enjoy installing them and evaluating the differences between them.

@trawglodyte :-

Mm. Bigpup's right, here.

Usual practice in the Linux world is to always run the very newest kernel. This is for up-to-date system support, security patches/fixes, etc. It doesn't occur to these people that sometimes, folks have no choice but to run elderly hardware........most of these people see it as perfectly normal practice to trade-up to brand-new hardware every couple of years.

It's astounding how many "geeks" take the pronouncements of the tech-blog gurus as "gospel"!!

That simply isn't an option for many. And if you're trying to run a very new distro - with the newest kernels - on really old hardware, then you may, quite possibly, be SOL.....

(shrug...)

=======================

Where older Pups - primarily 32-bit - are concerned, you'll find there's also a practical limit, beyond which you simply can't go. Back beyond a certain point, older Puppies were looking for something called "VESA BIOS extensions" at crunch-time for getting a working screen. I can't boot any of these on the big HP, because it's UEFI.....but the elderly Dell Latitude lappie, which is standard BIOS, has NO problems with 'em.

Mike.

@mikewalsh Yes, I understood that part. I'm still trying to figure out what Pup's I can boot and which I can't. Maybe there is no way to know except try? It is fun. I think it was Tahr 6.0.6 that didn't work. I guess I'll keep inching newer, stick to 64-bit mainline distros until I find one that does to figure out approx era they start working on my machine?

@trawglodyte

You just need to buy an old computer, like a Dell 7010 or so.

wizard

wizard wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 7:53 pm

You just need to buy an old computer, like a Dell 7010 or so.

All I need in a second computer is for it to be dirt cheap, let me boot some older pups, and also make a $40 video capture card record whatever's on my other computer's screen at all times with no issues in decent 1920x1080. If that exists in reality, I'll pull the trigger so fast it will make your head spin! (-;

@trawglodyte

$40 video capture card

Just check your cards system requirements, I'm guesing you can find something pretty cheap.

wizard