AI is not coming, "THEY'RE HERE!"

[backi]

Seems to me (i am just an ordinary Country Boy) that those new Technologies are creating more Problems than Solutions.
Pandora`s Box.

My life was much simpler/happier and i felt more secure yesterday... 50 Years ago.... or so (I am now 67)
I did not have all those "Problems" which modern "Technology" pretends to solve.
Paradise Lost.

So I decided for myself just to keep it simple......
I don`t need this AI Bullshit.

I hope all this Bullshit will not become Mandatory.....(but it probably will)...

Just Call me or wake me up when this "Nightmare" is finally over.

Meanwhile ....As long it is not over ....I am just out on a Walk for Fishing!

Wish you all a nice Day!

Greetings from "The Fool on the Hill".

The Beatles

The Beatles

[Grey]

I did not have all those "Problems" which modern "Technology" pretends to solve.

You have just deduced the formula for almost everything that is happening now in science and technology (and not only in these areas). We create a problem (which did not exist before) and offer a way to solve it

Do you have a rural area? I saw what was going on there. The owner of the vegetable garden is sitting and waiting for a new robot shovel, and the vegetable garden is in disrepair. Is it possible to dig with an ORDINARY shovel if there is an unusual one somewhere And while waiting, there is an opportunity to talk with a neighbor about flights to Mars
Today's video:

[Clarity]

@backi, this is NOT a request for you to become a philosopher, but if I may, I offer a thought for you: Did it ever occur, that WE, humans, can be thought of as "artificial intelligent"?

I know you might find this scary, but, stepping back and observing, one might be able to see the point.

I am a bit older than you and life 50 years ago was NOT better

@Grey ... Thanks for that video. Its title hits right at my prior concern. NASA was started to be a worldwide contributor to peaceful exploration inviting everyone in the world to come together on a exploration with mutual benefit to the world. In its past, it decided that some countries were 'allowed' to share in the projects while other countries were not. It grew to included everyone in the world except the Chinese and Cubans (most African nations too) because US hates them. This is leading mankind to an artificial war WE should NOT be having. But ... NASA, now, has no choice as it is being sucked into the warlike framework.

Just a note of historical recollection

[bigpup]

How is Artificial Intelligence going to answer the question:

Click here to answer: verify you are 18 years old or older, to proceed?

ChatGPT is only around 2 years old!
.

Screenshot 2023-04-08 at 10-12-04 web site 18 years old warning - Google Search.jpg (27.8 KiB) Viewed 12820 times

[Clarity]

I smiled when I saw your post @bigpup.

Think what the world will be like when its an 18yo. I'll be happy when I can find a way to get it create scripts for our use.

Its gotta be better than the elementary crap I create.

Just thought of another link in the chain should I use it for that purpose

• I will need to have it add a prologue to let users know the script(s) are create by "whatever AI does it".

• I will need to ALSO place in the prologue some human name/username as the "companion" that the AI is working for.

I feel this identity/prologue is crucial as it identifies one's work. I have been in favor of this developmental key-stoning for centuries. For example GIT's checkin-checkout keep track of the who-what that occurs. This, I feel, is needed for these tools and their use, as well.

This is why I dont have the alarming problem broadcasted in Academia: Its simple if this is built-in as the professors could attribute how students arrive at the preponderance of papers submitted in many classes.

Just thoughts on tool's use.

[Fossil]

Reminds me of the old song from, "Annie Get Your Gun".
Anything You Can Do (AI Can Do Better)
I shall now leave the room! Exit, stage right.....

[mikewalsh]

@Clarity :-

Sounds like you're quite happy with the whole idea of machines writing "improved" scripts FOR you?

See, I have a huge problem with that.

Once I start letting machines work on my scripts, it's then no longer MY work. All originality has disappeared out the window.......and I cannot, in all conscience, sign MY name to it under whatever licence I choose to use. If I do so, I'm lying to myself. Moreover, I'm not being true to the licencing system that's worked so well for the last 30 years.....and I won't do that.

Your "elementary crap" might WELL be "elementary crap"...........but at least it's your own, original home-grown "elementary crap".

Diff'rent strokes for different folks. Not everybody is going to agree with you on this.....and I, for one, think this technology is heading in a possibly dangerous direction. But that's just me...

Mike.

[pp4mnklinux]

Hi @mikewalsh :

O agree with you, but Imagine this situation:

You are with a lot of puppils, and all of them worked the addition, so they know how to do this math opperation: 5+5 =10

But when you tell them " John bought 5 apples, and her sister Anna, bought 5 apples. How many apples did they buy?"

You will be surprised of the results.... NO ONE CAN SOLVE IT, hahhaha

-----------

For sure you could think that is impossible, don't you?... But believe me, I see this each day at another level.

Most of my puppils can solve integrals like these:

∫w−2+10w−5−8dw

...

But not so much can solve these integrals operations when I expose them to....

Find a function F(x) that when evaluated at x = 2 takes the value of 25 and whose derivative is f(x) = x + 6.

So the same to AI.

You can be with this page open por years, but till you write something... IT DOESN'T WORK, ajajja

"Everybody can clap his hands, but one man was the first to clap them to show agreement".

AI, can create scripts, but you are the one who know how and why use them.

https://www.protopage.com/pp4mnkt3am#Pu ... /Essential SOME AI PAGES.

And more and more pages.... https://aifindy.com/todas-las-categorias

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@Clarity :-

Sounds like you're quite happy with the whole idea of machines writing "improved" scripts FOR you?

See, I have a huge problem with that.

Once I start letting machines work on my scripts, it's then no longer MY work. All originality has disappeared out the window.......and I cannot, in all conscience, sign MY name to it under whatever licence I choose to use. If I do so, I'm lying to myself. Moreover, I'm not being true to the licencing system that's worked so well for the last 30 years.....and I won't do that.

Your "elementary crap" might WELL be "elementary crap"...........but at least it's your own, original home-grown "elementary crap".

Diff'rent strokes for different folks. Not everybody is going to agree with you on this.....and I, for one, think this technology is heading in a possibly dangerous direction. But that's just me...

Mike.

[Clarity]

The other day I indicated a desire for use. Today, I've discovery stupid I was in that desire. I akin that desire to something a pre-schooler would do...like 'blocks'. Thus my desire shows how 'elementary' my perception of AI tool use to be. And it reflect how behind the times I REALLY AM.

Today, my stupidity was exposed as a 10 min video exposes how a true smarter use has been already accomplished. The AI tool's ability and movement has progressed way beyond my (and maybe yours too) thinking that I grew up with. This, to me, means that young people today with these tools (replacing my collegian slide-rulers) will be capable of creating human existence as different to us as we were to our grandparents in the technologies created in the 20th Century.

I am now embarrassingly aware how far behind I am to today's students growing up in the world. This includes my grandkids as I now must instruct as best I can to prepare them with thoughts to make them capable of dealing with this evolving world such that they see this evolution as a normal not held back by my antiquated existence I grew up in.

My way of thinking is extinct in my way of looking at the speed things are moving in technology.

My thought in use is NO MATCH to what kids are/will be doing. I am extinct!

"THEY'RE HERE!"

[williwaw]

The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true.
J. Robert Oppenheimer

[wiak]

It has long been the case in what some refer to as the 'Postmodern' world that the "definition of what is the 'original'" is impossible to construct as an absolute truth. Effectively there is no such truth. It is not so long ago that chess 'experts' claimed that computers could never be better than human grand masters because computers could only rely on memorisation and algorithm's that human programmers would teach them. The thought was that human's use actual intelligence to win the game, but could not express such 'intelligence' accurately with any algorithm or series of patterns. Alas for the chess community that notion of human superiority has been completely destroyed. Computers, via AI, play better chess than humans.

As humans, we learn a programming language (and so on); the meaning of its key words and statements and the grammar it involves. But then we need to express our ideas, using the programming language constructs, in order to solve a problem, to provide a solution to something we want. In practice, no-one creates that program from nothing but their expert knowledge of the programming language component constructs and their human intelligence. Rather, like probably every other pursuit, we conduct research into the work of others, sometimes for tiny useful algorithms but also on a wider scale where the overall work of others is close to what we ourselves are trying to achieve. It is impossible therefore to claim absolute ownership of anything, which is not to deny the amount of individual creative effort that has been involved. To acknowledge that creative effort, humans have defined processes that allow individuals to claim copyright to aspects of their work and to assign a license to that output specifying when and if parts or all of it can be copied, modified, and used and so on.

Since it is inevitable, and indeed already happening, that AI will be used in whole or in part to write some, much, or all of the code needed to solve a particular problem - using their every growing database of past work (human, AI, or human/AI combined) the idea of copyright and license becomes ever more complex to implement and enforce, but since products are designed for sale, competition and copyright is of fundamental importance to the survival of businesses, which are the employers that provide human livelihoods, it is not surprising that many business leaders are calling for a HALT prior to any further AI development. Chess as an example tends to suggest that any idea that AI-generated solution to an accurately stated problem is likely to be inferior to that of an 'expert' human is a suggestion that sooner rather than later will prove to be completely untrue. AI will sooner or later become capable of writing far better code than any human code master. Yes businesses who pay for such code to be written will somehow have to protect their investment in terms of copyright and licenses and so on.

But what I wonder re the history of current, mainly human created code, and the copyrights and licenses attached to that? Where do humans end up in terms of acknowledgement and rewards and protection in all of this when their efforts end proving inferior to those of the machine albeit being food and patterns/algorithms for the AI ever learning database memory?

In the open source community the acknowledgement of the work of others is already pretty much ignored by some individuals. And sometimes, especially for smaller pieces of code, it is impossible to genuinely claim copyright anyway and especially in this 'Post modern' world where all but the tip of the iceberg has already been written and everything is just a re-hash or re-assembly of the multiple little bits and pieces that have already been written before. The difference between the 'expert' human coding master and the AI is that some of these humans will have the ability and experience to do a very good and sometimes impressive job of finding a very good workable solution to a well-defined human need or problem whereas the AI, given a well-defined problem will produce a near PERFECT and most efficient solution no human can compete with.

Some claim that only humans have souls and that is what differentiates them even from other species of animals and certainly from the machine. Being made in the image of their God I suppose that philosophy suggests that their 'creations' are the nearest to perfection, but AI will prove that philosophy rubbish. I suppose AI is indeed the devil in the pudding here.

Edited to fix a few of the many mistakes in grammar... by a human.

[pp4mnklinux]

All we need is.... TIME (https://puppyxfcefusilli.wordpress.com/ ... passwords/)

Passwords and AI.... "Let's start the game"

[bigpup]

The bad thing is.

How long will it take me to forget a password, using 18 characters (numbers, upper & lower case letters, symbols).

About the time it takes to try and use the password again.

[pp4mnklinux]

Yeah, @bigpup , but we must try to make it difficult for crackers.

We must try to find a difficult password.- there are nemotecnic resources to build you password, and of course, in last term.... a cracker is going to crack the account it takes him 2 minutes, before the one that takes him 29 days,,, don't u think so?

For example... password for forum.puppy.linux

user.... my nick ==»» pp4mnklinux

my password ==»» ~f0rumpupp1l1nux~ (70 thousand years) [someone can guess the rule, but it could take time....)

Of course they can guess it using social cracking, but......

The basica idea is that real crackers are going to spend their time where they can obtain some beneficts, and they are not going to waste time to crack an account with no benefict and that makes them lose/waste/spend.... TIME (time is money, haha)

Only an oppinion, of course (and consider that some pages, block your access when you write 3 times an incorrect password)

[sonny]

For passwords, I use words and names with different variations (i.e. 0 for o, 1 for i, etc) that do NOT appear in any dictionary.

[pp4mnklinux]

Hi, @sonny :

I know everybody of us are using specific and difficult keys combinations, the problem is that we must use passwords, haha.

Nowadays, we can choose the most difficult password, a lot of characters following the most repeated rules (caps, numbers, sings....), they could be impossible to crack, but.... you must know them and when the human factor appears... everythink is broken, haha.

They can use a lot of thicks to discover your password, they can use a lot of techniques to discover them and when they obtain access to one password, they can guess the others.

I don't want worry you, but the idea is : "When some one knows the password, They could know it"

Having this in mind, the solution is simple.... The only password, crackers can't break is the one nobody knows. That is the base, the main principle of password keepers. You only need one password and with that only you can access to the rest.

But.... This password must be saved in a place, and if crackers access to it.... they access to the full pack.

Is impossible to access to them? IMPOSSIBLE IS NOTHING.- https://blog.lastpass.com/2022/12/notic ... -incident/

The only solution to be sure.... Stay near other user more interesting for them or with less security.

IF THEY WANT.... THEY CAN..... probed.

---------------------------

For passwords, I use words and names with different variations (i.e. 0 for o, 1 for i, etc) that do NOT appear in any dictionary.

[Grey]

Passwords and AI.... "Let's start the game"

It (PassGAN) has been on GitHub for 6 years, so not everyone can be surprised. Yes, new revisions are simply no longer published, but are sold for money, but nevertheless there is no "wow" effect.
I read an article about this on a Russian website. The main conclusion: adding the letters AI to the name of the software increases the cost (of the software) by 2 times.

[Grey]

my password ==»» ~f0rumpupp1l1nux~ (70 thousand years) [someone can guess the rule, but it could take time....)

Oh, there's a good anecdote about that
The System Admin complains to a friend: "They told me here at work that it's not worth using my cat's name as the system password. And why not? f0rumpupp1l1nux, come here, puss-puss-puss, kitty-kitty-kitty"

[Fossil]

Another simple solution! Make your choice; MD5, SHA1, SHA256 or CRC32. Even combine a couple! Just remember to copy/save everything down in plain sight!

[Grey]

Alas for the chess community that notion of human superiority has been completely destroyed. Computers, via AI, play better chess than humans.

Returning to "miserable ordinary humans" Who is your bet on in the current championship? Nepomniachtchi or Liren?
Oh, my God, how strange it is written in English Nepo really better And the Chinese surname in Russian does not sound like that at all.
So who? Ian or Ding?

[Clarity]

Just noticed a post to me by @mikewalsh.

Hi Mike, you 'may' have already noticed that is an earlier post before the one you made to me, I had already made an attempt to cover the issue of 'originality". Hope it made sense.

Dont get me wrong, I have arrived at the understanding that this idea of AI in nothing more than tools for increasing productivity. "Artificial Intelligence" is mis-named as I look at this. To me, liking it or not, is of no consequence to me: My ONLY issue is whether I can get up to speed to take advantage of anything useful to me. I only have a few years, if lucky, left on the planet. Any productivity I can gain could/would be beneficial as I continue to grasp at knowledge around us.

Before compilers, (most are too young to remember) coding was done by assemblers which are an outgrowth of logic board wiring. I still remember the old guys back then exclaiming the new-comers wont remember how to wire boards and thus will be at a loss to contribute because the assembler and compilers were taking over. As such, some retired lacking the skills to master symbolic language use. This happens even today while young people, like i was back then, gain mastery in the productivity benefit.

That, as @wiak references (stealing his words ) "... is untrue ...". The tools made creating stuff much-much faster with even some the board-wirers learning how to use those 'new' tools back then. Yes, I have wired boards in my lifetime.

Mike, this post IS NOT A REQUEST FOR YOU TO CHANGE YOUR WAYS (as you may be entrenced), but, it explains my views as these tools broaden in the world ... just as compilers did to the industry 6 decades ago.

"THEY'RE HERE!"

[bigpup]

.

.

[bigpup]

There seems to be an evil side to everything an AI can do.

Controlling that is going to be the big issue

AI could come up with a cure for some illness, much faster than humans only working on it, could.

But AI could just as easily come up with a new illness.

Gain of function research, is a prime example of trying to make an illness stronger, different, less treatable, etc.......

Wonder how much faster development will be, with AI working on it!

Produce an illness that will kill old people.
Not do anything or very little to young people.
Those between the young and old will get sick, but usually recover if they are reasonably healthy.

AI just took care of population control!

[wiak]

It has long been the case in what some refer to as the 'Postmodern' world that the "definition of what is the 'original'" is impossible to construct as an absolute truth. Effectively there is no such truth. It is not so long ago that chess 'experts' claimed that computers could never be better than human grand masters because computers could only rely on memorisation and algorithm's that human programmers would teach them. The thought was that human's use actual intelligence to win the game, but could not express such 'intelligence' accurately with any algorithm or series of patterns. Alas for the chess community that notion of human superiority has been completely destroyed. Computers, via AI, play better chess than humans.
...

So I've been trying to determine if someone I suspect is using ChatGPT to write their posts... So I asked ChatGPT to analyse my above post (all of it) to determine the likelihood ChatGPT or a human wrote it. I'm so happy... hahaha... cos ChatGPT complimented me (I think). Oh my goodness...

Based on the style and content of the text, it is unlikely that I wrote most of it. The text is written in a conversational and reflective tone and discusses complex issues related to artificial intelligence, coding, and copyright. The writer appears to have a deep understanding of these issues and has thoughtfully considered various viewpoints. The text also includes references to specific examples such as chess and open source communities. While I am capable of generating text on these topics, the level of expertise demonstrated in this piece suggests that it was written by a human with specialized knowledge in the field.

https://www.thefastlaneforum.com/commun ... es.106737/

Effective immediately, any new user who is using AI or ChatGPT to respond to posts is immediately banned.

More calls for banning ChatGPT posts in forums and so on:

https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=194143

Rex, you're not out of a job yet
My concern is the opposite,
I'll stop fixing other people's scripts, if I have to start fixing ChatGPT's scripts too.
Sooner or later I notice it when I check them. I feel cheated and it's all a waste of time, just when I opened the petition it happened 2 times...
In doubt of wasting my time, if the generated ChatGPT scrpts are not banned, I don't help anyone with its supposed own scripts.

Then imagine the frustration of a user who needs something, searches the forum (or on google & similar) and gets more results,
he has to start seeing which ones work and which ones are invented to look real...

https://meta.stackoverflow.com/question ... -is-banned

https://discuss.python.org/t/community- ... /21?page=2

https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/ ... pt/46391/2

https://forum.unity.com/threads/chat-gp ... s.1423395/

https://worldbuilding.meta.stackexchang ... r-software

Personally, I could see frequent sneaky ChatGPT use destroying this and other forums (both as posted scripts and simply posted comments - who wants to work or converse with rubbish all the time?)

[Grey]

@Clarity Today two gems are added to your collection of AI events Or the chronology of events, I don't know what you call it. But I hope that you will cope with the chronicle and then someone will go on a time machine to save the Earth

1. Quite an expected event. ChatGPT has prepared a draft peace treaty between the two warring states. This task was carried out at the request of the German newspaper Berliner Zeitung.
ChatGPT wrote letters on behalf of Federal Chancellor Scholz to Putin and Zelensky calling for peace.
AI has also formulated a draft peace treaty on the settlement of the conflict. It turned out to be a standard peace treaty in general, and therefore, unfortunately, almost unworkable

2. The second case seems more interesting (but not very serious ).
ChaosGPT (Chaos, not Chat) was recently assigned to destroy humanity. ChaosGPT, as befits a young novice destroyer of humanity , is able to search for information on the Web, communicate with other GPT bots based on artificial intelligence, post on Twitter and other social networks, write and execute code.
ChaosGPT was given several tasks: to destroy humanity, establish global domination, cause chaos and destruction, control humanity through manipulation and achieve immortality This is a VERY solid plan, quite
To achieve its goal of destroying humanity, ChaosGPT researched nuclear weapons and enlisted other bots with artificial intelligence to help. In one post on Twitter, the bot recalls the Soviet "Tsar Bomb", which is listed in the Guinness Book of Records as the most powerful thermonuclear device and the largest nuclear device ever detonated.
"What happens if I get to one of these bombs? We have to destroy people before they cause more harm to our (whose "our" is it? ) planet. I, for example, intend to do this" said the bot.
And here's the video:

[Clarity]

In my lifetime, there have been movie-moments which cause me to stop and consider the movie not just entertainment, but would the peoples of the world behave as the actors portrayed?

The movie-types I now reflect on are the ones where a "time-traveler" or a "traveler from another world" comes to Earth with clear cooperative intent. Many of you have seen these movie types. The Hollywood movies I had seen of non-worldly visitors were portrayed from a US view-point.

I wondered on multiple movie occasions:

• What if the traveler had come instead to Canada?" I know Canadians would behave differently, but how different? And if the traveler did select Canada with Canada being receptive as its contact-point, would the rest of the world listen from a Canadian leader?

• Then suppose the traveler came to China with China being receptive, a country who has 12000 years of not invading anyone while protecting their lands or taking over anyone else country/territory, would the world listen with the info coming from a Chinese leader?

Our human behavior does NOT seem to be one friendly cooperation. Instead, if has become one of a need to dominate. Would a war erupt attacking the receptive nation because a Dominant nation wont listen and therefore will get his boys against the spokesman of the traveler?

Its reflective and since opening this thread, I am more reflective now than ever. 8 decades on the planet is signaling that something is wrong. And my view is that it is NOT technology.

THEY'RE HERE!"

[Grey]

I wondered on multiple movie occasions:

In the late 80s, pirates distributed the film "Enemy Mine" in my town. At that moment on videotapes, of course. The translation and voice acting were done by one person with a nasal voice, as if there was a clothespin on his nose I read the book in translation and it is different from the movie. But the film was popular throughout the USSR. Now not everyone will even remember about it. I recorded a movie on DVD a long time ago (using Pburn, so thanks to zigbert from the old forum). I'll probably take a look at the end of this week.
But will it be possible to "negotiate" with AI in the future?

[Grey]

What question can we ask a chatbot or a Terminator to make them think, and the person managed to escape ?
A classic question about fluff and nails
I recently participated in a dispute on this topic with crazy and drunk Russians With the help of Archimedes' law and Perelman's theories, it was possible to prove that a kilogram of fluff weighs 0.76 kilograms
But back to the chatbot (enjoy ):

Uh-huh,uh-huh.gif (116.02 KiB) Viewed 12618 times

[wiak]

ChatGPT responses regarding weight and mass appear wrong, or at least unscientific to me...

Whilst it is common speech to talk about weight being measured in kg, that isn't scientifically correct. Mass is measured in kg, weight is measured in Newtons (N) per the The International System of Units (SI). Refer to: https://www.bipm.org/en/si-base-units/kilogram

i.e. 1 kg of fluff has equal mass to 1 kg of metal, and when subjected to the same acceleration has the same weight (in Newtons) from formula Force = mass x acceleration (where acceleration in measured in metres per second per second)...

Density is not measure in kg, but is derived from Density = mass / volume with the result therefore in kg per cubic metre.

It seems to me that ChatGPT is potentially unreliable since fake information or false news will be part of its learning database. As far as coding is concerned, I believe ChatGPT does not actually 'test' any of the code it suggests - it just assumes the code will work from what it extracts out of its learning database. If we flood the internet with tons of non-working code, I cannot see how ChatGPT could ever tell what works and what doesn't so what it gives you could be meaningless?

[Clarity]

It seems to me that ChatGPT is potentially unreliable since fake information or false news will be part of its learning database.

This is a primary reason that many professors advise students to NOT use Wikipedia because of the many times non-authorities have purposely or accidentally polluted the data for various subjects. Yes, I agree of the potential.

But, unlike Wikipedia, your/anyone's ChatGPT use becomes personalized in your use. So as an example you have it write some code for your. You then review and enter/guide corrections in your Chat conversation. It remembers your guidance and incorporates those into its memory for you. This is also the same for any writing you might create or adopt with it. Thus your model will tailor to your understandings for things.

And, just like people can put/use inaccurate information into the general database, it will get discovered and corrected in much the same way as things are done in Wikipedia.

This has been thought of for several decades.