Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

@wiak Since you mentioned you found it useful I've also installed xfce4-dockside-plugin.

Once I got how it works I find that do like it. Big plus is the icons for apps stay in view on the bottom panel, and can be accessed even if the desktop is fully tiled with windows.

rockedge wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:42 pm

@wiak Since you mentioned you found it useful I've also installed xfce4-dockside-plugin.

Once I got how it works I find that do like it. Big plus is the icons for apps stay in view on the bottom panel, and can be accessed even if the desktop is fully tiled with windows.

Okay, that saves me a bit time preparing a configed zorin (horizontal previews) version (yes it is a bit tricky to understand how to config it first time round...). Instead, I've simply attached a true .tgz (need to uncompress it) of zorin's nice variant. You should untar that over the top of the one you install from Void if you want the improvements zorin has added. By that I mean, rename/make-a-backup of Void's lib version, which is /usr/lib/xfce4/panel/plugins/libdocklike.so and untar the attached tgz file into that same directory /usr/lib/xfce4/panel/plugins/

I've also attached my /root/.config/xfce4/panel/docklike-25.rc (remove dummy tar) configuration file for that dockline-plugin, which put icons for Firefox, Rox, Thunar, Mousepad, Geany, XFCE terminal, Xlunch1, Mtpaint, Octoxbps, and xfce4 Screenshot on the doc, which you can alter to suit your wishes.

Makes KLV-Airedale pretty much as nice desktop to use as Zorin's (with whiskermenu IMO anyway) - and Zorin is famous for being one of the most polished user-friendly XFCE desktops out there - I've been using it for months and it is superb indeed, and so now is my thus configured KLV-Airedale, which also adds all the advantages of all the Pup/Dog dev utility apps and functionality and so on and uses half the startup RAM of Zorin lite...

EDIT1: Okay, don't really know what I'm doing, but got docklike-plugin working with the pinned apps again (wasn't when I tried again later): had to change the /root/.config/xfce4/panel/docklike-25.rc filename I had produced to docklike-1.rc. Also needed to open panel preferences -> items and remove item "Window Buttons" and set Docklike Taskbar preferences to "Show previews thumbnails for open windows" and also "Show the number of open windows (if more than 2)". I've also set to use Bars for Active and Ciliora for inactive windows - no idea really what that is about... All working as I like it now anyway.

TESTING initrd.gz v6.0 in KLV-Airedale-beta19 on FAT32-NTFS formatted USB thumbdrive

I created a FAT32 and NTFS paritions on a 16 GB usb drive. I copied over KLV-Airedale-beta19 frugal install directory which is using the initrd.gz version 6.0 to the FAT32 partition which is labeled FATBOOT.

I ran Grub4Dos on the USB drive which found KLV-Airedale-beta19 although I needed to edit the menu.lst to this:

title Linux KLV-Airedale-beta19 (sdd1/KLV-Airedale-beta19)
  find --set-root uuid () D0DD-DB39
  kernel /KLV-Airedale-beta19/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=LABEL=FATBOOT=/KLV-Airedale-beta19 w_changes=LABEL=klvsys=/beta19 
  initrd /KLV-Airedale-beta19/initrd.gz

This setup will boot KLV but there is no persistence in the first test since there is no Linux type format upper_changes save file previously created.

Next try is to insert a save file manually before booting the system.

@rockedge :-

Interesting.

Erik, do I take it that the 'upper_changes' directory in KLV functions very much like a 'save-folder' under Puppy? In other words, a native Linux file-system needs to be present for the 'saving' to work correctly?

Probably seems obvious to many others, but I freely admit I'm not the sharpest knife in the block these days when it comes to some of the basics. (I also freely admit that yes; I DO still use KLV semi-regularly, but much of the discussion has in recent months passed me by, due to becoming mainly technical stuff which is beyond my ken. That's not to say that I don't still follow the thread - I do! - but it's got to the point where I feel I simply CAN'T contribute.....because doing so reveals my painful ignorance of much of what you guys are doing. My own meagre efforts to package software for Puppians are but 'baby-steps' in comparison. There's nothing 'original' about them; the biggest part of the work has long been done by others.)

Unfortunately, my own days of testing, testing, testing, over and over again are behind me. The enthusiasm has waned. I much prefer nowadays to maintain just a few distros, and to hone & polish them for personal use. Sounds "selfish", doesn't it?

And some of your recent comments in the WeeDog 'Announcements' section have got me wondering if one day I'll fire up the rig, ditto a browser, and find the Puppy Linux Discussion Forum has simply ceased to exist.

Don't think your efforts aren't appreciated. They ARE. But I fully understand that appreciation alone doesn't justify paying the bills. Whatever you eventually decide, you have my support, at least.

Mike.

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:31 pm

but much of the discussion has in recent months passed me by, due to becoming mainly technical stuff which is beyond my ken.

That's a problem resulting from forum organisation. It should be the Kennel, but it is not. So this community-oriented distro ends up buried in a sub-section in one thread really under Advanced Topics - Puppy Derivatives - Specialized. Development has to be discussed as it develops so swamp the main thread during periods of heavy development.

It isn't actually an Advanced Topic. It is simply a distro that takes some overall community efforts and puts them together in a relatively collaborative way. Positioning means no beginners and probably few 'normal' users coming here of course. Hard to be much of a community distro when only one distro gets exposed as that - and Puppy is only the favourite of those who use Puppy, not that of many others who use the forum.

I would expect the "savefile" can/should be usable within any Linux distro since it merely is a complete partition within a file that us usually viewed/used via a loop device.Further the partition-filesystem that is within the file is a Linux filesystem (i.e. ext2/3/4)

I maintain ALL of a given PCs session-saves in a folder on each PC for 2 very good reasons:

• performance

• and the persistence is SPECIFIC to the PC the distro is run on

.A USB was never meant by design for ANY major interactive system use like a system drive by its spec. And until this last year, NONE of them performed to the spec their manufacturers published. Most recently many are better, but performance and the design spec's intended use suggests the system drive is a better unit for what we do with persistence files over the past 2 decades.

To boot ISO files (using a USB) for me, is the best use of any stick USBs in my testing. They don't yield any other benefit for any other reason in my test; EXCEPT the benefit of moving the stick from one PC to another EASILY.

OUTSIDE of the performance factor, the intent of the sticks are for portable carry from unit to unit.This has been presented at so many developer's seminars over the first decade of their use with no favorable changes until recently.

There are people who will use them for other purposes beyond what I am mentioning, but many of us who know, do not.

I do have a question, though and ask for KLV community guidance.
For PUPs over the years and for FATDOG, as well, I am comfortable in save-session management. For many-many years, PUP + FATDOG sessions were saved on the system drive in a partition. Every PC I set up and each time guiding a new user, its ALWAYS the same for sessions; Each PC is set identically:

1. carve an area of the system drive for Linux use

2. format the area (partition) as a Linux partition

3. Label the partition with the same name of EVERY PC I setup

4. Create a Sessions folder of that partition where ALL session-saves are kept

In PUPs, the SAVESPEC file and feature in PUP's design explains how I have done sessions: A WoofCE PUP boots and uses the file where appropriate as it assist in Session management for me. SAVESPEC file's 3 line content:

SS_MEDIA=  <== the media type for saving sessions is here
SS_ID=  <== the partition's label for saving sessions is here
SS_DIR=  <== the directory for saving sessions is here

In the most recent of PUPs, this makes simple the session management for both pristine as well as multi-booted PUPs.

If your PUP use has done so for you, as it should, you will find it in the folder where your ISO files are kept; at least for me, this is where it was placed by a prior PUP.

All of my sessions for ALL PUPs and DOGs are kept in the Sessions folder. EAch PUP//DOG can-will find their session-saves there when booted. On pristine boots, the PUP offers to save there.

NOw the QUESTION
For WDL/RAM0/RAM2, how would your recommend my w_changes= be coded, knowing this arrangement? (i know this has been asked before, but, I think the recommendation could be different, now.)

I know this is wordy, but I hope it presents a complete picture of the environment at hand.

BTW: This arrangement is the same WHEREVER I carry the USB to.

AND, would the answer be the same for @fredx181's DOGs, except of course it is "changes=" there for its persistence.

Clarity wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:40 am

NOw the QUESTION
For WDL/RAM0/RAM2, how would your recommend my w_changes= be coded, knowing this arrangement? (i know this has been asked before, but, I think the recommendation could be different, now.)

I know this is wordy, but I hope it presents a complete picture of the environment at hand.

BTW: This arrangement is the same WHEREVER I carry the USB to.

Though you have learned a special Puppy-initrd-oriented savespec file approach to this, understand it and like it, no such special files are used or required by WeeDog boot system, which is designed as a 'generic' initrd on purpose so can easily be used to frugal install other distro rootfilesystems without having to care how they work internally.

Instead, WeeDog simply uses boot loader kernel line arguments to specify everything like that. All KLV users, despite my poor documentation, for example, already understand:

w_bootfrom=UUID=424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8=/WDL_klv

and also

w_changes=RAM2 (which is optional for those who want Pupmode13 type save2flash use).

So in simple arrangements, w_changes is the key parameter used to simply specify where the save persistence folder is located - in above being in RAM.

However, if you choose to use something like w_changes=/mnt/sda4/path_to_a_directory somewhere on your system, there are two problems...

1. How do you then also use RAM2 mode? The answer to that one is that there is a second variable (w_changes1) you then use to specify that second needed function as: w_changes1=RAM2
Pretty easy really. So you end up with both: w_changes=/mnt/sda4/path_to_a_directory (where your external media upper_changes save folder is) and w_changes1=RAM2 so that save2flash mode can be used.

2. There is a little problem in item 1. above, specially with usb drives since every time you boot the /mnt/sdXX part can change for a removable flash drive. It is my recommendation never therefore to use that /mnt/sdXX/ way of saying where a partition is, but to instead either specify the UUID of the partition, or a partition LABEL name. So can, for example use either of:

w_changes=LABEL=whatever_partition_label_is=/WDL_klv # that last part being the folder you are storing the frugal files in such as vmlinuz, initrd.gz, and probably the numbered addon sfs filesystems

OR

w_changes=UUID=whatever_uuid_of_partition_is=/WDL_klv

In other words, identical format as used to specify to WeeDog where you wish to bootfrom, but can thus be on entirely different partition to w_bootfrom location and with upper_changes in different folder there. Again, if also wanting RAM2 mode, all is perfectly consistent - just use the other related argument: w_changes1=RAM2 as well.

3. Worth mentioning a further option here (though generally no one probably using it): if you want to store all the numbered addon filesystems other than in w_bootfrom location you can use another argument to tell that to WeeDog initrd. That argument is w_altNN=blahblahblah, where blahblahblah are location entries in same possible formats as the above. But let's not go into that further since totally optional and mind-blowing flexibility to some...

Clarity wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:40 am

NOw the QUESTION
For WDL/RAM0/RAM2, how would your recommend my w_changes= be coded, knowing this arrangement? (i know this has been asked before, but, I think the recommendation could be different, now.)

I know this is wordy, but I hope it presents a complete picture of the environment at hand.

BTW: This arrangement is the same WHEREVER I carry the USB to.

Though you have learned a special Puppy-initrd-oriented savespec file approach to this, understand it and like it, no such special files are used or required by WeeDog boot system, which is designed as a 'generic' initrd on purpose so can easily be used to frugal install other distro rootfilesystems without having to care how they work internally.

Instead, WeeDog simply uses boot loader kernel line arguments to specify everything like that. All KLV users, despite my poor documentation, for example, already understand:

w_bootfrom=UUID=424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8=/WDL_klv

and also

w_changes=RAM2 (which is optional for those who want Pupmode13 type save2flash use).

So in simple arrangements, w_changes is the key parameter used to simply specify where the save persistence folder is located - in above being in RAM.

However, if you choose to use something like w_changes=/mnt/sda4/path_to_a_directory somewhere on your system, there are two problems...

1. How do you then also use RAM2 mode? The answer to that one is that there is a second variable (w_changes1) you then use to specify that second needed function as: w_changes1=RAM2
Pretty easy really. So you end up with both: w_changes=/mnt/sda4/path_to_a_directory (where your external media upper_changes save folder is) and w_changes1=RAM2 so that save2flash mode can be used.

2. There is a little problem in item 1. above, specially with usb drives since every time you boot the /mnt/sdXX part can change for a removable flash drive. It is my recommendation never therefore to use that /mnt/sdXX/ way of saying where a partition is, but to instead either specify the UUID of the partition, or a partition LABEL name. So can, for example use either of:

w_changes=LABEL=whatever_partition_label_is=/WDL_klv # that last part being the folder you are storing the frugal files in such as vmlinuz, initrd.gz, and probably the numbered addon sfs filesystems

OR

w_changes=UUID=whatever_uuid_of_partition_is=/WDL_klv

In other words, identical format as used to specify to WeeDog where you wish to bootfrom (using w_bootfrom), but upper_changes savefolder (or savefile) can thus be on entirely different partition to w_bootfrom location and with upper_changes in different folder there. Again, if also wanting RAM2 mode, all is perfectly consistent - just use the other related argument: w_changes1=RAM2 as well.

3. Worth mentioning a further option here (though generally no one probably using it): if you want to store all the numbered addon filesystems other than in w_bootfrom location you can use another argument to tell that to WeeDog initrd. That argument is w_altNN=blahblahblah, where blahblahblah are location entries in same possible formats as the above. But let's not go into that further since totally optional and mind-blowing flexibility to some...

4. I do not recommend the following further option generally at all, because it is really nowadays mainly a waste of always precious RAM: If you want all the numbered filesystems (sfs addons or uncompressed directories) to be stored in RAM prior to boot continuing you can specify that with argument w_copy2ram on the boot loaded kernel line. Unlike in another distro we know, that option in NOT active by default. I leave that option up to users to put in their grub.conf if they want it.

Would anyone consider the LABEL option given the consistent environmental setups?

• System drive layouts are different depending on manufacturers; thus the partition number would be different per PC.

• BUT, the label-name is always the same no matter the PC where the USB boot occurs.

• And the Sessions foldername is also always the same

Considering how the changes should look on the Linux line such that it wouldn't matter the PC it is booted on?

@wiak I am in 100% agreement of the LABEL parameter to be primary! On EVERY Windows PC I have setup over the past 3 years, every has a Linux partition labeled "Persistence". The label allows KLVs, PUPs, and DOGs to find their Saved-sessions (aka their Persistence)!

I also go a step further in keeping ALL saved-sessions in a folder named "Sessions"

My added to the Linux line on boot reflect this, when necessary and always leads Shutdown processing to the correct location; no matter if booted pristine or booted with prior saves present in the folder.

For KLV; to the linux line in the boot stanza ===> ... w_changes=LABEL=Persistence=/Sessions

Thanks...your instructions are "spot on"

@rockedge

I really hope you don't decide to shelve this project. I'm wondering at this point what's keeping KLV in beta stage, because it seems like it's works fine and dandy as a system once installed correctly, but maybe these final stages are just a matter of various boot/persistence parameters being fine tuned for the multitude of boot/install scenarios.

My question is basically, are there any major overhauls you're considering to KLV's overall feature set, or is it just a matter of how to install it at this juncture?

If it's just the install considerations, I could generally run this OS as-is beta-19 as if it were an official release, as far as I can tell.

@geo_c KLV will continue to be developed!

are there any major overhauls you're considering to KLV's overall feature set, or is it just a matter of how to install it at this juncture?

No there are no plans to do any major changes or feature additions because KLV-Airedale is very close to a "production release" and I don't want the rootfs and overall ISO size to be much larger than it is now at 563 MB...and the main reason is...not to break it.

Last steps before beta20 right now to test out a new gtk-splash notification maker GUI utility from @fredx181 and one line change in save2flash to work smoothly with FAT32 and NTFS formatted partitions.

Also the main work right now is cleaning up the install methods, more documentation because what exists is scattered all over the place and needs lots of work. The main thing now is making the utilities that will generate a save file image to be used for persistence on NTFS or FAT32 disks and partitions. So that doesn't need to be done more or less manually as it is now.

The NTFS stuff works but is not that user friendly, which would improve if the documentation for that and the different boot stanzas were better if not at least together in one place.

Also a main thing is to install Grub4Dos (latest version) or Grub2config (maybe both). Considering adding a remaster function but that can wait until after the release of version KLV-Airedale-v1 and is stable. These things can wait but having a way to easily add a bootloader installer would be really helpful for me personally when creating virtual machines for example.

In principle KLV-Airedale-beta19 could be actually classified as a production release candidate.

Work is on going but success is in the details and I got side tracked for example this morning trying to compile a 5.19.10 kernel with the kernel-kit fresh from woof-CE. Which wouldn't cooperate so back to KLV and looking at the best way to perhaps automate an installer for KLV-Airedale.

If it's just the install considerations, I could generally run this OS as-is beta-19 as if it were an official release, as far as I can tell.

All in all don't let the beta19 fool you, KLV is fully ready for usage as is. It's mostly my lack of self-confidence and caution why it's not RC1+ at this point! KLV-Airedale-beta19 can be considered stable and a RC1 (release candidate 1) because there will be no major changes anytime soon.

@rockedge thanks for that explanation! That confirms my thoughts.

rockedge wrote:

and one line change in save2flash to work smoothly with FAT32 and NTFS formatted partitions

I'm not sure what you mean, maybe I missed something, is it perhaps about the 'NoSave" set as default ? (as we talked about earlier).

@fredx181 my fault! Comes from working in 2 different forums. This was a suggestion from @wiak
The modification is for save2flash to work on FAT32/NTFS/ext2/ext3/ext4

This link will bring you there. You're already registered as a user ->
KLV Installed on USB Formatted as FAT32 and NTFS

Up to you, but I highly recommend setting up tabbed windows and adding docklike taskbar per the configs I sent in posts below. For docklike taskbar, first I installed from Void official repo but that one only gives the open window preview in a vertical column. Much nicer is to substitute the Zorin lite binary over the top of the first installed Void version - that gives amazingly nice horizontal previews - much nicer to use and beautiful. I think people would really like having that (no added bloat really) even if not using Whisker menu (which I personally prefer despite the wee bit extra RAM used with Whisker) - docklike taskbar doesn't swell RAM usage at all as far as I know - just provides extra features.

Setting up Tabbed windows (no matter which KLV start menu you are using):
viewtopic.php?p=66403#p66403

docklike taskbar special horizontal preview mode one from Zorin lite
viewtopic.php?p=66592#p66592

Just for fun, compare RAM usage with any other XFCE-based distro and you should find KLV-Airedale is the best; that's what I found anyway. Personally, though a fan of simple openbox/tint2, now that I've used Xfce for a while I am totally hooked - probably slightly less responsive to use than the OB/tint2 combination on my old box, but on my newer machine I don't even notice that - I suspect I will stick with that Xfce desktop from now on - it remains very resource friendly with a lot of great functionality thrown in. But on my newer laptop at least, whisker menu is also worth it - I really like it, but docklike-taskbar is more important and works with normal Xfce Application Menu too since just a panel extra and not to do with Start menu per se.

rockedge wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:05 pm

@fredx181 my fault! Comes from working in 2 different forums. This was a suggestion from @wiak
The modification is for save2flash to work on FAT32/NTFS/ext2/ext3/ext4

This link will bring you there. You're already registered as a user ->
KLV Installed on USB Formatted as FAT32 and NTFS

Thanks, I see now, here's new save2flash package :

Changed that one line in scripts save2flash and snap-ex. (but TBH I didn't test booting with savefile)
Also made "NoSave" the default in snap-ex, included the old one too (snap-ex.old, default "Save") up to you which snap-ex to include in the rootfs.

Thank you @fredx181, I have included the modified save2flash and PackIt 1.23 in the latest release -> KLV-Airedale-beta20

Download from the usual location -> https://rockedge.org/kernels
or the direct link in the 1st post of this topic.

@rockedge I noticed that in beta20 the included mksplash and gtkdialog-splash are not the updated versions that I shared a bit later.
Really no big deal. Just saying, so you can perhaps include in next beta, the fixes aren't really important (and the application isn't either)

@fredx181 Good catch! I must of ended up using the original while juggling files around. I know it's not really an important tool but I find it convenient to make splash notifications that I can use for scripts that do stuff for packages like Zoneminder. I will make sure the updated version replaces the current one.

So I am including it as one of those "extra" options that are cool but not exactly necessary!

Inspired by this other thread on 'sweet spot' older computers, I have now tried running KLV beta20 on my 2008 old HP Elitebook 2530p laptop:

viewtopic.php?p=65783#p65783

As predicted, even with Xfce desktop it runs pretty much perfectly fine - I wouldn't even call it slow with that set up at all. If I needed slightly better performance dropping desktop to Openbox/tint2 or JWM would give it a boost - but actually it runs fine out of the box including detecting my iwlwifi, sound, everything... Pity the fans on these old machines of mine are wearing out at their bearings (no matter the dust removed) because with Void Linux powered KLV-Airedale64 multi-user working great on this 14 years old machine! I had just opened Firefox, but after a few moments top reported 99 percent CPU idle again!

Can't help but wonder why I am using a 2000 dollar business laptop when this ancient laptop that cost me forty (40 dollars), ten years ago, works perfectly fine with KLV... Okay, so it came without a hard drive and I booted from usb 2.0 stick, but booted pretty fast too actually.

Only issue I thought might occur was wifi driver, but no - that was there and all connected straight away...

Follow on from my immediately above post.

Turns out I had used KLV-Airedale (older beta) on this 2008 laptop before... I know that because this particular one had a fan that hardly ever turned but did have a 'normal' ata-type wee harddrive, which I had laid aside in a drawer. I put that back in and lo and behold the machine by default booted into that previous KLV-Airedale64 install. I didn't say anything about that ability back when I used to use this as my only laptop, because I was frankly unsurprised back then that a Void-Linux based distro worked fine on it even with Xfce desktop...

However, that fan... No way I was going to bother taking whole machine apart to access it so long time back I had cut a hole in the bottom of the case as a horrible access method... very easy to do since this machine has a magnesium case... oops... just snapped off bits of it with long-nosed pliers till I could get to the fan... vandalism on my part really, but only way I'd bother doing it nowadays. That previous fan-unstick attempt gave me a few months before it really started giving up - the fan occasionally moved a turn or two but then stuck again - no matter how much blowing out I gave it or vacuum cleaning or lubricate attempts... Nevertheless, I'm sorry to let it go so decided to have a go at the fan again today, but this time cut out much bigger hole so I could really get into it... To be frank, I was so rough to the fan that I'm surprised I didn't kill it off completely, but I didn't care since it was all but dead anyway. However... it is actually spinning again - I'm not saying it is great, but it is for now pushing out air again, and with this super low power 17 watt processor that is enough to keep it cool as long as it keeps spinning as it does. Indeed, fan keeps running even when I lightly hold middle of its spinning centre with my finger, so looks like will spin a few months or more longer all going well - ten times and more better than it was anyway. I can't reasonably expect it will really, but for now I'll use it again, with KLV-Airedale, which works beautifully on it, and enjoy it while I can...

Attached photo of the fan - you can't see the spinning, but it is - I just covered the whole with a thin piece of very thin plastic (from some packaging container) and taped that on with masking tape - fine...!!!

Oh, took the photo with my android phone and the usb transfer just worked soon as I connected the phone via usb cable could see it in Thunar.

Not sure which KLV-Airedale beta running just now (ah, now I see the iso that it was installed from: beta13), but on boot using 267MB, which is but a quarter of initial RAM used by most Xfce desktop distros - very efficient - this 2008 laptop has no problems running it whatsoever.

So running nice and cool. If fan goes with that big hole in the bottom I could pretty much get away with sticking any old 5v fan into there or even on top I reckon... so lots of life left in these six old 2008 model HP 2530p lappies of mine I think.

Didn't know how to check the CPU temp but then noticed xfce4-sensors was already installed in KLV-Airedale - what does it not do!
Temp of each CPU core went up to 52 deg C each when running psy gentleman video full screen for 5 minutes at 720p resolution (lots of fast movement in that video so my go to for quick youtube performance checks - who cares if would be considered inappropriate today - funny anyway). Seemed to handle the frame rate not too bad even at that resolution, so nothing wrong with this old laptop + KLV-Airedale combination. Upgrading now to beta20 since worked fine from usb stick anyway - EDIT: beta20 seems to use twice as much initial RAM as beta11 though - not that it effects other aspects of performance though - just wondering why? - still twice as efficient as other Xfce4 desktop distros I've tried (EDIT2: after installing to hard drive discovered not much more RAM used afterall - three times better than other Xfce4 desktop distros I've tried).

It is great to be back on this old dev laptop of mine - hard disk too small sadly, but keyboard much better actually and I love the click open night time keyboard light up LED. Also has ambient light sensor. I should buy a good SSD for it, and maybe a replacement fan though would still be tricky to fit without making an even bigger hole in the case!!! With this KLV performance if this machine keeps going I guess I could get away with using it as my main desktop for another 5 years yet!... ridiculous really.
EDIT3: so per my preference, I replaced Application Menu with Whisker Menu - funny thing is 'free' utility reported slightly less RAM used than was with Application Menu! Insignificant difference though - initial RAM used being around 304MB - amazing for Xfce4 desktop - perfectly smooth and fast enough on this ancient kit - and with Whisker Menu... now to put Zorin light docklike-plugin on it... I just love that version - keeps the taskbar so tidy, and I like to also make Super Key window tiling work per my earlier post.
viewtopic.php?p=66403#p66403
viewtopic.php?p=66592#p66592

EDIT4: For some reason or other I can't get that docklike-plugin (Zorin horizontal variant) to work as before - can't get the pinned desktop apps to appear. It's a tricky thing to understand and set up - I must have been lucky last time - I will work on it and report whatever I missed last time...
EDIT5: Okay, don't really know what I'm doing, but got docklike-plugin working with the pinned apps again: had to change the /root/.config/xfce4/panel/docklike-25.rc filename I had produced to docklike-1.rc. Also needed to open panel preferences -> items and remove item "Window Buttons" and set Docklike Taskbar preferences to "Show previews thumbnails for open windows" and also "Show the number of open windows (if more than 2)". I've also set to use Bars for Active and Ciliora for inactive windows - no idea really what that is about... All working as I like it now anyway; perfectly amazing performance on 2008 laptop - if better performance, less initial RAM use wanted, just use KLV-Airedale with say JWM or Openbox/tint2, but Xfce4 desktop fine on this old HP 2530p.
Images:
1. tiling in action and whisker menu
2. Zorin docklike-plugin on KLV-Airedale horizontal preview in action (Thunar filemanager previews)
3. CPU temp sensor readings
4. My now spinning fan in huge gaping hole in case!

With docklike-plugin app.desktop file pinning working now I really don't need that top wee taskbar panel anymore at all actually. I'll remove it (DONE - no image required - it is gone...). Posting form it right now and using less RAM (currently 707MB used with firefox running) than most Xfce desktop distros using with no apps running at all... Also top showing CPU 99 percent idle after I stop typing and Submit the message - can't really complain... Remaining cool as cold tap water - per above figures - no issues here. Bet my new laptop runs hotter; okay a bit faster - but hardly significant enough to care about... this old machine is actually amazingly snappy - KLV-Airedale evidently suits it big style. No wonder these HP Elitebooks were expensive in their release days - incredible longevity and performance that probably still beats some of the new cheapish junk machines out there.

@wiak Gotta say I like the fan fix. I would have most likely tried the same method to get it going.

I also have an old machine that has run other FIrstRib-Void distro builds so I took it off of the shelf inspired by what you tried out.

This is a DELL VOSTRO 1500 laptop build year 2008. It has 1 GB of RAM and an Intel 2 core Duo CPU. This machine lived a long life in a pre-school - kindergarten environment. Teachers, day care providers and 4-5 year old's had their hands on it from 2008 to 2019. Eventually the Wifi radio gave up the ghost and it's HDD stuffed full of what Kindergarten teachers use computers for. I ended up with it when my wife no longer could reach a network printer or browse the Internet and it became with Windows XP slower and slower and totally bogged down. The school's owner looked at and was going to toss it in a dumpster. I saw a machine that might run Linux and the HDD still worked!

I have just booted KLV-Airedale-beta20 on it which started quickly and went right to the desktop. Even with only 1 GiB of RAM and an added swap partition of 512 MiB Firefox runs surprisingly well and at an actually acceptable speed. I am using a $9.75 Wifi dongle from China that appears to like this machine to connect to a router. The eth0 connection works also.

Without the browser running htop reports 252 MiB of RAM used but jumps up to 790+ MiB with Firefox going with two tabs.
Looks like the swap partition is playing a big role in keeping the system stable. It is not really noticeable that the swap is being used.

Overall it appears that KLV will operate well enough to use on such hardware from 2008 without wanting to throw the thing out of a window.

I am in the process right now to add in the Tiling customization to KLV-Airedale's rootfs since it is a really great feature.

It also took me a moment to figure out how to actually use the tray/nav bar plugin at first. Not yet experienced enough to explain how to use it, but I do have it working and can hide the top panel #2.

rockedge wrote: ↑Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:07 pm

@wiak Gotta say I like the fan fix. I would have most likely tried the same method to get it going.
...
Looks like the swap partition is playing a big role in keeping the system stable. It is not really noticeable that the swap is being used.

Overall it appears that KLV will operate well enough to use on such hardware from 2008 without wanting to throw the thing out of a window.

Yes, I sometimes become overly reckless when it comes to old, surplus, hardware, such that I can and do break it and just sigh.

From what you say about your Dell, that would also run stable without swap being used at all unless lots of tabs open even with just another 1GB RAM added - probably cheap RAM sticks available still on surplus market for such machines I'd think. Like I said, we only have two pairs of hands, though can always use it for running Zoneminder I suppose!

EDIT: HP 2530p fan continuing to run fine - the laptop running nice and cool with KLV-Airedale64; I seem to have successfully given it a new lease of life...

Boot stanza from USB /sdb2 using legacy boot.

I'm trying to get KLV beta20 to boot from a usb stick, and I tried modifying my boot stanza from the HDD. It doesn't work, and it's the first line that I grabbed from my fossapup stanza that's causing the problem.

It currently looks like this:

title KLV-Airedale-beta20  (/mnt/sdb2)
  find --set-root --ignore-cd /KLV-Airedale-beta20/initrd.gz
  kernel /KLV-Airedale-beta20/vmlinuz  w_bootfrom=/mnt/sdb2/KLV-Airedale-beta20 net.ifnames=0
  initrd /KLV-Airedale-beta20/initrd.gz

What should I change?

@geo_c Not to worry your boot stanza is close but as you mention the first line is flawed.

These 2 are what I am using to boot from either the menu.lst on the HDD or directly from the USB stick set up with Grub4Dos ->

title KLV-Airedale-beta20 (LABEL)
  find --set-root uuid () 12ca29bb-0eee-484d-9839-4893cd53fd2d
  kernel /KLV-Airedale-beta20/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=LABEL=klvsys=/KLV-Airedale-beta20 net.ifnames=0 
  initrd /KLV-Airedale-beta20/initrd.gz
  
title KLV-Airedale-beta20 (UUID)
  find --set-root uuid () 12ca29bb-0eee-484d-9839-4893cd53fd2d
  kernel /KLV-Airedale-beta20/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=12ca29bb-0eee-484d-9839-4893cd53fd2d=/KLV-Airedale-beta20 net.ifnames=0 
  initrd /KLV-Airedale-beta20/initrd.gz

in a terminal use the command blkid to determine the UUID strings for all of the partitions connected to the system.

This is an example output of the 2 lines (of many) that indicate the UUID string ->

Then in your stanza ->

find --set-root --ignore-cd /KLV-Airedale-beta20/initrd.gz

Taking a UUID string from the results of the blkid command (using my USB stick's ext4 partition string for an example), change to ->

find --set-root  uuid () 12ca29bb-0eee-484d-9839-4893cd53fd2d

This line is very important to inform the system what device and what partition to use as the root base.

This method will also work ->

title KLV-Airedale-beta20 (UUID)
  uuid 12ca29bb-0eee-484d-9839-4893cd53fd2d
  kernel /KLV-Airedale-beta20/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=12ca29bb-0eee-484d-9839-4893cd53fd2d=/KLV-Airedale-beta20 net.ifnames=0 
  initrd /KLV-Airedale-beta20/initrd.gz

This part of the kernel command line is optional -> net=ifnames=0
The kernel command will ensure that the ethernet and WiFi names begin with eth0 and wlan0.

thanks @rockedge, I went around and around, but eventually, that second stanza worked just dandy, and now I'm running KLV off my newest USB stick that's currently booting KLV, Fossapup, Jackalpup, and Fatdog.

I think ultimately I'd like to get vanilladpup running on it also, and maybe Voidpup, but KLV probably fills the void niche pretty well.

The great thing about portables and appimages, is I simply symlinked my .librewolf folder into the root directory of KLV and I'm instantly browsing fully configured.

@wiak I ran across a 1 GiB RAM module that is salvaged from another machine of the same era as this DELL VOSTRO 1500.

The machine has 2 x 512 MiB sticks and to access slot #2 the keyboard has to come off. So I took off the bottom panel for the easy access to slot #1 and I swapped in the 1 GiB RAM module giving the machine 1.44 GiB of RAM.

Just the 512 MiB boost in RAM size has improved overall performance. Firefox runs fine with 3 tabs open (max before swap partition is used) and htop monitoring the system running and so far no swap partition usage. Pretty amazing.

So I just ordered for $27.90 two 2 GiB modules that will adjust the RAM up to the max of 4 GiB.

It appears judging by how well KLV-Airedale is running in 1.44 GiB it should be very effecient with 4 GiB of RAM. Making this laptop form 2008 totally usable showing accceptable response times and the KLV OS is very nimble on the DELL VOSTRO 1500.

I am posting from the latest KLV-Airedale-beta20.2 (with gxmessage installed as default) running on the machine from a 16 GiB USB stick drive.

@geo_c Glad you have it going. Remember you can add a LABEL to a partition using GParted if you want to dabble in using the LABEL parameter in the boot stanza's

rockedge wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:39 am

@geo_c Glad you have it going. Remember you can add a LABEL to a partition using GParted if you want to dabble in using the LABEL parameter in the boot stanza's

Oh, the label is just the partition label? I always label my partitions. I'll have to try that. Never assume I get the obvious. Just ask my wife.