Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

666philb wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:47 pm

mikewalsh wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:23 am

@wiak :-

Will;

I still maintain that if someone would resurrect the QTWeb project, bring the certificate-handling/TLS stuff up to date, and just 'tweak' maybe a couple of other items, that there would be a superbly lightweight graphical browser.....which would handle 99% of stuff that most folks need on a daily basis.

'Tis but a pipe-dream, I suspect!

Mike.

didn't that develop into this https://www.falkon.org/about/

quite a big install but very fast. in fact it was beating the chrome browsers in webgl tests when i tried it

Hmmm, no, phil...Falkon arose from QupZilla...QTWeb was smaller than QupZilla (comparable release dates)
I may still have QupZilla 1.66 on my WinXP installation on this netbook, had QTWeb as well. I didn't use
QupZilla in Slax 7.0.5, but I did use QTWeb along with Opera 12.16. that was up until a few years ago,
now most websites balk at Opera 12.16 as well as QTWeb. I gave up on Slax 7.0.5 as well as Opera 12,
and started back with Slacko Puppy 5.6, then 6.3.2, now using peebee's ScPup.

@Moose On The Loose It looks like there are a lot of browser customizations on The Interwebs these days.

Like Puppy, there needs to be a streamlining and simplification for them to take off, to the extent creators care about adoption.

Foss is like, "Here's what I did. You might like it too. Hope you understand."

NetSurf specifically, it wants me to work with a .flatpakref or compile it.

That's for the technically motivated.

I was just thinking in the kitchen earlier - I'm going to stay on the bridge, sophisticated user but not too technical. When you get too bogged down learning something, you forget the motive that prompted you to learn in the first place if it's not critical. If you still have the initial purpose, it has to be worth it or you might seek another way.

He writes eyeing Samba.

Comments interspersed

JASpup wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:32 am

@Moose On The Loose It looks like there are a lot of browser customizations on The Interwebs these days.
Like Puppy, there needs to be a streamlining and simplification for them to take off, to the extent creators care about adoption.

I almost seems like there needs to be a "puppy browser" with the following features:
1) "bookmarks" is just a page full of links
1A) "bookmark this" adds a link
1B) "edit book marks" brings up detaulttexteditor
2) Videos in the page brings up the defaultvideoviewer or something
2A) The idea is to avoid having multiple libraries for the same job
3) Javascript is an optional external engine that can also go stand alone and process scripts
4) SVG graphics has at least partial support

[....]
NetSurf specifically, it wants me to work with a .flatpakref or compile it.

That's for the technically motivated.

I was just thinking in the kitchen earlier - I'm going to stay on the bridge, sophisticated user but not too technical. When you get too bogged down learning something, you forget the motive that prompted you to learn in the first place if it's not critical. If you still have the initial purpose, it has to be worth it or you might seek another way.

I have a copy of netsurf that mostly works on puppy 528.
The HTTPS fails due to certificates not working
I tried it on ScPup and it would not run
I tried recompiling on ScPup and it would not compile
The project is set aside for now

He writes eyeing Samba.

I long ago suggested there needs to be a fork of SAMBA that "just works".
I am still using a very down rev versions of SAMBA here at home.
I will spare the full detailed report and sum up like this:

Boot 528 from CD with no save file
Install my pet of old stuff
See that it works
while not giveup do
  Boot 528 from CD with no save file
  Install "new super wonderful" SAMBA
  follow all instructions step by step writing down the results
  See that it doesn't work
  Report the results in puppy forum

@Moose On The Loose browsers for efficiency and privacy - I like the lightweight browsers that won't open a lot of resource-intensive pages, and privacy is so esoteric in ways that the average user can't see.

I sort of compromise with out of date versions of the mainstream browsers. I lost Javascript on Tor yesterday and wound up reinstalling it.

528 is my oldest puppy that successfully boots on a project machine that is also set aside for now. Thanks to 528 I was able to archive the hard drive.

Puppy makes it so easy to boot multiple machines for different purposes, file sharing becomes a natural motivation. Yet I see a big CAUTION! sign there.

JASpup wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:43 pm

@Moose On The Loose browsers for efficiency and privacy - I like the lightweight browsers that won't open a lot of resource-intensive pages, and privacy is so esoteric in ways that the average user can't see.

I sort of compromise with out of date versions of the mainstream browsers. I lost Javascript on Tor yesterday and wound up reinstalling it.

528 is my oldest puppy that successfully boots on a project machine that is also set aside for now. Thanks to 528 I was able to archive the hard drive.

Puppy makes it so easy to boot multiple machines for different purposes, file sharing becomes a natural motivation. Yet I see a big CAUTION! sign there.

Meanwhile, I prefer Chromium, mostly because the sad truth of certain things running better on Chrome-based browsers. I also have a Chromebook, which I may get rid of soon. Afterward, I'll switch to either Midori or Firefox.

r96chase wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:38 pm

Meanwhile, I prefer Chromium, mostly because the sad truth of certain things running better on Chrome-based browsers. I also have a Chromebook, which I may get rid of soon. Afterward, I'll switch to either Midori or Firefox.

I like Chromium too and use Firefox also. I can't get Chromium to run on Slacko6, so I booted Tahr today.

Slacko is barer and not as user-friendly for installations (eg, dependencies, the fact that it has no Quickpet).

Boot Puppy on your Chromebook:
https://www.lifewire.com/install-linux- ... ok-4125253

wiak wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:57 am

JASpup wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:17 am

I just wish it didn't take so many resources to run a browser these days.

An interesting wish, that gets me pondering whether modern GUI browsers really need to take so many resources. We talk about heavy webpages/websites being the cause, because they use lots of web technologies/protocols/whatever, but why should these new technologies/protocols/whatever not be capable of less-resource-intensive processing? Perhaps it is inevitable, but I can't help but wonder if the processing mechanisms being used are unnecessarily bloated, using too many high level code abstractions that sacrifice code/resource efficiency for ease of implementation. Software has a history of becoming bloated over time; then someone comes along and writes some implementation that 'crunchies all the numbers' in some direct less-abstracted manner that results in resource savings or speed improvements of many orders of magnitude. We can but hope.

One thing that I read of (or read?) was that developers have a bad habit of importing a lot of libraries that they don't need and may not even use at all. Another thing is the cost of all the analytics and advertising on page bloat.

Another thing is the cost of all the analytics and advertising on page bloat.

A.k.a. - (Google (and hence state)) spyware. That records your voice, face, hands (fingerprints), movements, activities, communications ...etc. Everything is being recorded and associated to individuals such that even todays strong encryption will be more easily 'opened' with time. Such tracking is blended in with regular content, such as nearly every page that offers a 'accept cookies' provides google with easier cross site tracking/association.

Fundamentally we access the net to read/see/post content, but where under the Google umbrella that increasingly is becoming what 'the man' wants you to see/say/do. Such sharing can be so much easier/free - for instance in Tiawan/Russia/China BBS's are very popular. A top level structure that enables you to quickly home in on individual BBS's that match your requirements (group/activities/content), but where the content is free expression rather than being filtered. And that is resilient (if one board goes down, others fill the gap). Yes a dull interface compared to flashy multi-media blitzing as you focus down, but once at the desired location other links/methods fulfil that content (share (upload/download) videos/whatever).

The attached is a actual gzip'd script that acts as a BBS, that you can run using ...

#!/bin/ash

while :; do
	nc -l -p 23 -e ./bbs.sh
done

Very basic (and, as-is, limited - such as no ssh (individual userid) log in, file/message read/post etc.), but a example of just how easy it can be for anyone to start writing/posting whatever they desire and for others to share in that. And the browser to view that content is also very lightweight ... just a terminal (nc localhost 23, or telnet localhost).

In Tiawan there can be over 100,000 all online (chatting ...etc.) at any one time (search about PTT BBS system for further information).

Until such times that sites recognise that partaking of 'Google Analytics' is partaking of spyware and reduce their usage of google based cookies etc. then over time they're inclined to see less of the traffic that they actually desire (customers etc.). A shift away from Google is well overdue, but its offerings do have strong attraction appeal/usage.

JASpup wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:51 am

I like Chromium too and use Firefox also. I can't get Chromium to run on Slacko6, so I booted Tahr today.

Slacko is barer and not as user-friendly for installations (eg, dependencies, the fact that it has no Quickpet).

Boot Puppy on your Chromebook:
https://www.lifewire.com/install-linux- ... ok-4125253

I would guess Slacko isn't as user-friendly as all the other Puppies. Hence why I want to try Fossapup first for my ThinkPad.

As for the Chromebook, I'm not sure if I could boot anything else on it besides Chrome OS. It's a Samsung Chromebook 3 and apparently even GalliumOS doesn't work that well on it. Anyway, I do plan on giving it away after getting an Android tablet, but I'm not sure tbh.

I use Puppy Linux because it's very lightweight and only required 1 GB disk drive, especially the Thin client machines which usally have very little disk size. Therefore i can install Puppy Linux on it and finally able to setup the kiosk with the latest browser version
It was running WinXP embedded previously, but it had certificate errors with Chrome so i couldn't access any websites

JASpup wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:32 am

He writes eyeing Samba.

Here is what Puppy users need to understand about Samba. The Samba server components (smbd, nmbd) and Samba client components (smbclient, nmblookup, mount.cifs) are designed to be a matched set. If you run a Samba server on Machine A and a different generation of Samba client tools on Machine B, you can expect to have problems.

I resolved this issue in the Starter Kit by making a combo squashfs module of both sets. (A lot of code is shared between them anyway.) Depending on whether a machine is acting as a Samba server or client, you run the parts you need and are guaranteed to be compatible.

r96chase wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:25 pm

I would guess Slacko isn't as user-friendly as all the other Puppies. Hence why I want to try Fossapup first for my ThinkPad.

As for the Chromebook, I'm not sure if I could boot anything else on it besides Chrome OS. It's a Samsung Chromebook 3 and apparently even GalliumOS doesn't work that well on it. Anyway, I do plan on giving it away after getting an Android tablet, but I'm not sure tbh.

@r96chase unfortunately I was being specific when I wrote "for installations".

Slacko6 has puplet called X-Slacko which is probably the most user-friendly puppy interface I've booted.

It also happens to run the only MATE version of puppy I've seen.

To give Slacko6 credit, it's stable and runs alt-desktops well, not only XFCE & MATE, but LXDE.

But no Chromium? duh

32bit Chrome stops in the late 40s, and the default Xenial (Puppy 7) (Ubuntu) Chromium is 62. I'd be happy there on Slacko, but not knowing if it would run even if I had the dependencies is an indication to only keep using Slacko for anything good default (eg, running MATE).

If you're on a 64bit machine with 4gb, I wouldn't mess around with this stuff. If ram goes higher max it out and either way go for a new pup. Also doesn't seem like a lot of point in messing around with your other Linux-resistant machine.

@JASpup

Yeah that seems about right. Things get tricky when you dig deeper. Like the fact I'm having a hard time finding a music player software for my Raspup due to not connecting to the Raspbian Buster repos and stuff. I would like something with a GUI, but I'm tempted to install musikcube, which is a terminal-based music player. At the same time, I don't want to. Really.

@rcrsn51 I take that as a caveat after the first caveat of getting it to run with reasonable effort in the first place assuming shared-version compatibility.

My line of thinking was going to be make the server the oldest puppy I use seriously (Tahr) with newer clients.

my first linux was kali, going to try puppy and see how it goes singapore casino

ab3787 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:05 am

my first linux was kali, going to try puppy and see how it goes singapore casino

If you were driven here by system resources, you'll be happier. That is the Puppy coup. I came from Mint. If your system isn't beefed on Mint, it'll crash like a buggy os.

Digital forensics and penetration testing sound pretty intense.

This is very/most interesting thread, that I'd like to read through later, to hear why others using it, for now just my why (my half euro).

Don't use it because of politics, or alike. Or because it's free/gratis.
I'd buy if it was commercial product.
I'm been using windows and linux/ubuntu for years on and off. When I got bored of one i switched to another and vice-versa.
I started using ubuntu/linux because I have experience with computers/installing/programming, so I was curious about exploring different worlds.

Recently, I completely switched to ubuntu/linux, the reason is because I found out that windows somehow always manages to gives me stress. For me linux is anti-stress. It's simple as that. I feel comfortable.

I've heard/knew of puppy before, and I remember several years ago, trying it out, and thought it is very interesting and impressive.
Then I have small old laptop (or notebook if it' called), think about 9-10 '' screen size(as tablet), because I got fed up with using big screens and wanted tablet-like-computer, that I than ran smoothly puppy on. I got impressed right away, it's exactly what suits me.
I woudl use it on notebook, if the problem isn't that cumputer gets extremely warm and i can see it's 60-70 degrees. All this browsing with desktop view doesn't suits me anymore. I use web browser on desktop/laptop and reducing it to phone-like view, and also using agent-switcher so the pages shows as if it was tablet/phone, I like these from-top-to-bottom, one-row view , it's so easier to read.

So I manged finally to install puppy on a usb flash drive to use it on desktop, because my desktop is full of systems(windows, ubuntu, kubuntu) there wasn't place for puppy. So I'm gradually switching from ubuntu world to puppy because(bionicpup32):
The best (default) theme and menus, I've ever experienced.
Smooth overall operation, that gives light breeze. For instance, ubuntu can feel heavy in use somehow.
The most infinite choice of configuration settings (I've never seen anything like it). The vast amount of different useful tools installed right of the box. Exploring friendly. Interesting to learn. Etc, etc...
The best looking and friendly operating file manager.

Next phase, bootable usb flash drive for laptop.

[So I've got my systems, puppy on computers/laptops etc., androids on phones and tablets (I'm fan of huawei)]

So I think, the main reason I'm using puppy is this freedom of choices.
For instance, I can use windows, but I'm allergic to mac, ipad, iphone and alike. I think it's because of it's closeness, everything is shot-down.
There's no room for explore anything, so it doesn't at all suits my character. (I've seen movie about apple but i don't agree that windows is soul-less compering to mac. With apple i don't feel anything. I use it only on work because I have to).
Windows has a soul - it's mainstream.

At the end, I'm using puppy/linux because:

I'm free from the mainstream, because I'm not mainstream.

@deki20 :-

Welcome to Puppyland..!

At the end of the day, I find, it boils down to this. With Windoze, you don't have any choice but to use what somebody ELSE thinks is a good idea. With Linux - and Puppy in particular - you have an idea for something.....and with your own work (and the support of this amazing community), 9 times out of 10 you can turn that idea into reality.

Linux is rewarding. What you get out of it is directly proportional to what you put INTO it. It's as simple as that.

Don't be a stranger..!

Mike.

Puppyland's great

At the end of the day, I find, it boils down to this. With Windoze, you don't have any choice but to use what somebody ELSE thinks is a good idea.

Yeah, also that... I feel like class, with "the teacher" trying to convert me, not teach me.
*ruun awaay...*
Windoze is reason enaugh, to know that world's crap

With Linux - and Puppy in particular - you have an idea for something.....and with your own work (and the support of this amazing community), 9 times out of 10 you can turn that idea into reality.

Complete freedom.

Linux is rewarding. What you get out of it is directly proportional to what you put INTO it. It's as simple as that.

True. I'm already completely up and running with puppy, thought it
would take couple of weeks. Migration completed.
Installed chromium/chrome, with all my bookmarks and theme, extensions and etc. Love chrome. Beautiful, puppy installed the latest version.

Thx for links to puppy stuff !

Cheers!

Hello!

I am very pleased to be so nicely greeted into your puppy community. Snoopy is an honor to own as a username.

1984-5 starting programming and had title to most anything. Recently I am needing the Lincoln Bedroom for a timeout. So with the hassles of distribution of an open source toy, It has exactly 38 unique double-sided cards. Each card is three hexagons which satisfy all the standard model conditions with 3 pairs of magnets. This is the Theory of Everything. I am kind of a Jason Bourne in reality, without the movie drama of being a killer.

USAFA starts as training being a slave for a year. I went to squadron 39 called Jediknights in 1985. And I saw one fall day in the Library another first year Cadet. And I felt that movie pull that said that all I had to do was walk up to her and that would be your perfect wife. And I did.

So Blind is a song by JR Richards from Dishwalla to me. It helped for me to replace Stephen Hawkings and Einstein failure to keep the idea at the level of humanity, it wasn't more of the same Killer Math and Lie Algebra. It was simply what was removed as extraneously difficult for schools, hexagon griding for paper , fractals and it did cause me to stop being so carefull. I am responsible for the China and Russia issue of the cold war which was the war in Korea at the 38th parrallel. Not sure if they invaded and I am sandboxed. But the release of the Biological Weapons of the three countries that had become sentient are happy to talk to me. Today guilty of 1.600.000 + deaths on this planet. They are learning English letters words and higher brain functions of humans.

She was Amy Lynn S. I try to pretend that Amy was Amy Lee of Evanesence. I only met her for five minutes or so in the Library. "I want to fly an F-16, What do you want to fly when you graduate?" . I love that I love her in death. If yes we dance. She spoke and taught me. Equality is what FOR ME is my LIFE my LOVE what I wanted in a wife.

"It is illegal for me to marry a woman ." Fortunately Drew Barrymore and John and others pretend like I should be able to Breath as long as one of them is always awake for my tears. Not technically true, but as a first note about me , I love passionately from my heart and words are poetic. But I do not scam nor pretend. It is hard not to just assume I have a pyschosis as there is no one other than me, alone in my life.

In 2016 with an Ability Military I started to hope for the world. Last war of 31 years 1985-2016 had only one caveat. Female President. The Iraq War left that clear as an answer to America. We honor our Nation's Treaties left me moving happily forward since the bet I was absolute about backdoors in nuclear missile coding held us till 2020 . Arabic answer to Biden who now being Treasonous to those Diplomatic meetings for his idea of having an Equality ACT in the Iraq Constitution was responded with semantically, "Huh.. Excuse me, what Female is in American Presidential Lineage?" You can find that the 30000 email argument covered Hillary Clinton's psuedo names in the comment sections of the first internet newspapers. I worked at Stanford's Particle Accelerator since 2000 for a few years and had many hours always concerned about Sovereign rights cloud@slac.edu. But Google is compromised by it's news search engine.

Basically Drew Barrymore is the Female best suited to be President of the United States. That is what I informed the race of non humans would be acceptable. I technically can also add in the Intifada of Israel during 2001-2 I spent Xmas there and was to meet Arafat at the Church of the Nativity for Christmas Eve Mass. He and the Israeli side never showed up. As the mediator , their world held papers that technically gave me all land and ownership of Israel, to be divided then. I know of the caveat that I had many times I could have slept with Israeli officers, invalidating my ownership , but providinarsg a neutral place . I was found to be ,,, well I own Israel. Arafat died a few years later, and as he himself never showed up at that Church Mass. His flaw in thinking or too me honesty was that Bethelehem was off limits up till late afternoon on Christmas Eve. But I had rented a car and was only driving everywhere and sleeping whereever in it. It had a radio and I went. Met the Mayor of Bethelehem. And taught about sweet wine. There is now a wood Eagle that lives in America from then as well as seeing such a place. Am I the leader of the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?
Yes. Yes I am. I visited Meggido which is the name also there. Alone I viewed the entire country side. I have my own power. As I later gave the daughter of one of the original terrorists those of Israel. So the Meteorite of Mecca I would say is my property also.

If you are interested in building a quantum computer that is what I would do if I did not love Drew all my life. Firestarter was the first time I ever say and heard and understood Love. She did break a curse on the Red Sox with making a movie that year. Miracles are her thing. I read her book Little Girl Lost recently, and so I have to give her life again is not going to make Christians any more of religion . I say. I do not mind dying. I will take the Earth with me if she dies and put up a sign where we go and say humanity was a mistake.

Actually immortal. Just playing a bit harder with the planet's population might be arriving if the bet heats up as technically Biden is asleep as a host to sentient bugs.

Me again. Snoopy is an honor to own as a username.

Stephen Weber
handcuffs now ID#184111 Deja Shea

You learn a lot of things when using Puppy. That's part of the fun besides Puppy obviously being an excellent operating system. It's also less stressful, run into a problem and just post on the forum. Usually within minutes you get feedback so you can move along. It's a huge advantage.

Lot of polished operating systems are like modern cars, everything has multiple plastic shields to discourage owner tinkering. And enough unnecessary complexity to discourage tinkering if you do take off the shields. Also keeps users from actually learning how things work under the hood.

Ubuntu is enough like windows wannabe that it annoys me. I dont want mandatory automatic updates and "Mother, may I?" to run anything. Personally like to shove "sudo" where sun dont shine. Its fine for a business system with multiple users but for somebody's personal computer it sucks. Giving myself permission to access my own computer is beyond ridiculous.

I am actually bit fond of Lubuntu, but I finally had to give "user" virtual root powers since I cant log in as root. Like this it still requires "sudo" but doesnt require a password. Its a compromise I can live with.

Most linux is similar enough under the hood to Puppy that I can manually dive under hood to do stuff. But it can be lot more tedious.

I recently tried MX-19.3. Its really polished and well thought out. It has the 'Mother, may I?' syndrome but sure it could be Lubuntu-ized with user having root powers. My big complaint with it is slow boot up to desktop. Lubuntu is whole lot faster booting. Really pleasant surprise that MX comes with openvpn built in. And didnt take much to add adb (android debug bridge) so it had most libraries necessary. I need those to tether to my cell phone with AziLink app. Though sure they included openvpn for other purposes in mind. I may well be only person still using AziLink or certainly not many of us out there.

Most distributions I have to either manually install openvpn and dependencies and adb and its dependencies. Or set up a hotspot on another computer to share the cell tether via wifi. Most distributions just assume everybody has access to ethernet or wifi so can be pain for initial connect, you cant use package manager until you are connected, but you cant connect until you have necessary software installed. Nothing new, used to be same with some distributions not including what was necessary to connect via dialup even with hardware modem that didnt need driver. Trying to remember think full version Void rejected using software and libraries I hacked in place for openvpn. Thinking this is the future where all will insist on only software from their depositories "for security reasons".

I like experimenting once in a while with other distributions, but been with Puppy since it was alpha and truly back then not usable as a main operating system. Was something like Puppy 0.6 when I ran across it. And BeOS5 was becoming too long in tooth and dependent on handful people hacking on it to keep it functioning.

Welcome to The Puppy World

Main question: why Puppy? Because it is most user-friendly system I ever seen. 3 milestones: 4.3.1, precise 5.7.1 and Bionicpup 8. Frugal installation is a brilliant idea. Last, but not least, I love dogs

Huge heartfelt thanks to all who created this world!

Adam Li