Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

BarryK, "Now we have Flatpak Installer".
esmourguit, "Would it be possible to get a flatpak for Gramps?"
BarryK, "Unfortunately, no:"
esmourguit "It's a shame."

It's not a shame. It's a blessing. flatpak is the "New Emperor's Clothes". Experiments with Puppy indicated that to install Flatpak required about a gigabyte of hardware space. That's for the 'framework' alone; sans applications. I'm posting from LinuxMint --don't ask why -- which comes with Flatpak. I just checked the size of the gramps flatpak package. It's a 1.1 Gb download which will require 1.6 Gbs of storage space*. The old deb version of Gramps was 6 Mb. Fleshed out with dependencies (unfortunately including python & modules) it's not likely to be more than a 30 Mb package. That's the size of the portable gramps.exe which will run under wine [albeit it complains about the absence of the open-street-maps module]. Perhaps less. Compare the size of the 'old' version created by muggins, https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=68580.

Currently my go-to web-browser is Brave. It's about a 100 Mb download, LinuxMint doesn't offer it. It now only offers Brave as a 250 Mb flatpak. My desktop has a reasonably powerful CPU and 16 Gbs of RAM. Optic Cables provide access to the internet. But it's two floors below the wifi router in a 60 year old building whose walls are solid so the wifi signal is at best --even with an extender-- about 40%. So while I have a reasonably powerful computer it faces a situation not dissimilar to that which those in third-world countries may have.

The first two attempt to install the Brave flatpak failed. After the 2nd failure I flinched MikeWalsh's portable and built a menu. I've done that with a couple other applications only available as flatpaks. But with Brave I persisted and was successful the third time. I don't pay for bandwidth. But how much was wasted by two unsuccessful attempts to download a 250 Mb package.

I don't compile: that requires learning a language and I lack that ability. So I can't say what problems might exist in compiling gramps. But instructions are available; it can be done and --except for python which I know nothing about other than it has its own quirks-- gramps compiling instructions don't seem much different than others I've seen.

But flatpak is a different story. At 1 Gb my suspicion is that it is too obtuse for all but experts. And that may be the worst thing about it. The spread of flatpaks discourages the creation of other packaging and distribution methods. It creates a new class: flatpak-experts. The incentive and opportunity of any who might be encouraged to learn how to create applications is minimalized.

Compare that to AppImages. Like flatpaks, a properly created AppImage contains all of an application's dependencies with instructions to use them. Their sizes are hardly more than those components. There are official tools with instructions for creating AppImages from 'sources'. fredx181 created an easy to use alternative which will run under any Puppy more-or-less creating a READ-Only rox-app or chrooted app. [TBO, the former is more likely to succeed than the later, and even that not always]. The problem with AppImages on the Web is that they are only tested against three major distros and, of course, not Puppys. So 'contains all' is an exaggeration. But you can extract an AppImage and employ the usual techniques under Puppys to determine what libraries are missing or other problems exist; and in many cases solve or workaround those issues.

IMHO, it makes more sense to 'normalize' the use of AppImages: provide tools for automating the creation of menus, testing for missing libraries, modifying them as necessary and repacking the modification.
-=-=-=-=--=-
* Considering that the framework-structure is 1Gb and the size of applications which use it far exceed the space required by the same applications not packaged as a flatpak, I'm wondering if flatpak is anything more than an unsophisticated containorization technique.

Follow-up. I built gramps under Jammy64. See here for the recipe as I doubt my build will run under EasyOS, except perhaps in a Jammy64 container. https://www.forum.puppylinux.com/viewto ... 342#p87342. Even then you might want to convert the SFS to an application you install.
The fully functioning application --including geo-mapping capabilities absent from the exe-- was just shy of 29 Mbs.
What it lacks that a flatpak provides is containerization. But isn't EasyOS still focused on running applications in its own containers?

I have added some more flatpaks to the installer:

https://bkhome.org/news/202304/more-fla ... aller.html

This will be in Easy 5.2.3, that I expect to release on May 6.
The reason for that specific date, is that although 5.2.3 is just about ready to go, I have other things on my plate for the next 4-5 days.

Mike,
The flatpaks (and appimages) run on main desktop, not in a container, but each one runs as a separate user.
So Gramps will run as user "gramps". I wrote a tutorial how they install:

https://easyos.org/user/package-manager-concepts.html

Since 'we' now seem to have the flatpak installer 'mostly working'. I wonder if it's time to consider adding the flatpak builder into the mix, with the caveat emptor of course on what is built. But at least if it's built under EasyOS it should theoretically work.

A major new feature, users can now very easily add more apps to the Flatpak Installer. See blog post:

https://bkhome.org/news/202305/user-cus ... flapi.html

What is also really great is that new apps can easily be shared. You create a new /usr/local/flatpak/custom/<app> file using the GUI, then post the file here. Gzipped or with false ".gz" appended of course.

The anyone can download that file, place it in /usr/local/flatpak/custom (and remove the fake ".gz")

Then when start Flapi, the new app entry will automatically appear.

You will then have all the advantages of Flapi, which installs the app at /mnt/wkg/flatpak (in the working-partition, not in the session folder), runs the app as non-root user, home folder /home/<app>, project files can be created either in /home/<app> or in /files/apps/<app> -- the latter is also in the working-partition, not in the session folder.

Note that /files/apps/<app> is invisible to other apps.

These are all under-the-hood details, that make the installation and usage simple and secure. You don't have to be much concerned about the details, just go ahead and use the app.

The Installer also creates menu entry and desktop icon, and can update the app or delete it.

It is all pretty good.

I do of course agree that Flatpaks are montrously huge. You need to have a generous data allowance, and fast.

Here is a comparison of Kdenlive video editor AppImage vs Flatpak:

https://bkhome.org/news/202305/kdenlive ... atpak.html

BarryK wrote: Sat Apr 15, 2023 11:44 am

So, requesting suggestions for more Flatpaks, as well as AppImages.

A few Appimages that I'm currently running under Easy 5.4 for 3D printing

Arduino IDE 2.1.0 (needs --no-sandbox): https://wiki-content.arduino.cc/en/software
balena Etcher 1.18.4:  https://etcher.balena.io/#download-etcher
IdeaMaker 4.3.2: https://www.ideamaker.io/download.html
Meshlab 2022.02:  https://www.meshlab.net/#download
Ultimaker Cura 5.3.1:  https://ultimaker.com/software/ultimaker-cura/?gad=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgtOzquTP_wIVdP_VCh2MdgglEAAYASAAEgIuqfD_BwE#links

Echer from Appimage-Installer is not working even updated to newer version.

Same here...

Strange. I thought that I tested that it started up ok. That is 1.18.4.
Oh, but I see your problem is when writing. I didn't test that.

OK, try running it as root user. In a terminal:

# etcher.bin

@esos , @bugnaw333 ,
I have removed Balena Etcher from the AppImage Installer. Reasons in blog post:

https://bkhome.org/news/202306/goodbye- ... image.html

I was shocked reading so many bug reports on their forum.
Plus, my own experience is pretty awful.

In EasyOS we don't need it, we have EasyDD. Maybe Etcher works nicely on Windows?

BarryK wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:15 pm

@esos , @bugnaw333 ,
I have removed Balena Etcher from the AppImage Installer. Reasons in blog post:

https://bkhome.org/news/202306/goodbye- ... image.html

I was shocked reading so many bug reports on their forum.
Plus, my own experience is pretty awful.

In EasyOS we don't need it, we have EasyDD. Maybe Etcher works nicely on Windows?

Barry you can't even trust the file managers in Linux when you copy big files to the usb sticks.
Although the progress indicates that the copy operation is done it still writes for some time.
Linux reacts weird to the slow storage devices.

I use this script I picked up from somewhere which a Generic Monitor panel plugin runs periodically every two seconds to display a line on an Xfce panel.
It tells me if the Usb stick is in idle or writing something.

#!/bin/bash

if ls -l /dev/disk/by-path/*usb* &>/dev/null; then

	USB_DET=($(ls -l /dev/disk/by-path/*usb* | grep -v "part" | awk '{print $NF}' | awk -F "/" '{print $NF}' | sort))

	for usb in "${USB_DET[@]}"
	do
		if [ $(awk "{ print \$9 }" /sys/block/$usb/stat) -gt 0 ]
		then
			sector_size=$(cat /sys/block/$usb/queue/hw_sector_size)

			DATA_WRITTEN=$(awk '{load = $7*sector/1000/1000
						printf "%.1f", load}'  sector="$sector_size" /sys/block/$usb/stat)
        		printf "%s: %s%s " "$usb" "$DATA_WRITTEN" "MiB"
		else
			printf "%s: %s " "$usb" "idle"
		fi
	done
else
	echo "USB None"
fi

BarryK wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:15 pm

Maybe Etcher works nicely on Windows?

havent tried this myself yet.....

Diskimager

BarryK wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:15 pm

@esos , @bugnaw333 ,
I have removed Balena Etcher from the AppImage Installer. Reasons in blog post:

https://bkhome.org/news/202306/goodbye- ... image.html

I was shocked reading so many bug reports on their forum.
Plus, my own experience is pretty awful.

In EasyOS we don't need it, we have EasyDD. Maybe Etcher works nicely on Windows?

Im using EasyDD for EasyOS image and other Linux distro. Etcher works nicely on Windows but I prefer Rufus on .iso that does not have a bootloader.

bugnaw333 wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2023 1:44 am

Im using EasyDD for EasyOS image and other Linux distro. Etcher works nicely on Windows but I prefer Rufus on .iso that does not have a bootloader.

Rufus for Windows.
For Linux spins and respins I'm using EtchDroid on an Android phone with OTP.
Linux on desktops is slow for this task, it takes too much time to write to the USB flash drives.

Maybe try USBImager
https://gitlab.com/bztsrc/usbimager/raw ... -amd64.deb
https://gitlab.com/bztsrc/usbimager/-/tree/master

I got echer.appimage from other source and worked ok. Nothing to do with windows.

williwaw wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 8:09 pm

BarryK wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:15 pm

Maybe Etcher works nicely on Windows?

havent tried this myself yet.....

Diskimager

I downloaded Diskimager and unzipped it on a windows7 desktop
It doesn't need to be installed and can be run from the folder. Simple to use, it offers to write an image to disk or a disk to image.

superhik wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:20 pm

BarryK wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:15 pm

@esos , @bugnaw333 ,
I have removed Balena Etcher from the AppImage Installer. Reasons in blog post:

https://bkhome.org/news/202306/goodbye- ... image.html

I was shocked reading so many bug reports on their forum.
Plus, my own experience is pretty awful.

In EasyOS we don't need it, we have EasyDD. Maybe Etcher works nicely on Windows?

Barry you can't even trust the file managers in Linux when you copy big files to the usb sticks.
Although the progress indicates that the copy operation is done it still writes for some time.
Linux reacts weird to the slow storage devices.

I use this script I picked up from somewhere which a Generic Monitor panel plugin runs periodically every two seconds to display a line on an Xfce panel.
It tells me if the Usb stick is in idle or writing something.

EasyDD uses "sync" parameters for the 'dd' utility, that will only report completed when the write is fully flushed to the drive.

I wrote EasyDD in a few hours (and a few more tweaking it) and it "just works", whereas Balena Etcher started life in 2016 and still has heaps of bugs -- despite being actively developed all that time.

And yes, there are alternatives for Windows that work great. Perhaps Etcher does work ok on Windows.

@ everyone

Hi all, remember to activate Time from Internet on QuickSetup, and also the qsync daemon, otherwise Flapi won't work correctly. It would be appropriate to add a warning for this on Flapi, imho.

AppImage Installer is it works in pyppylinux ?

pup2023 wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:50 am

AppImage Installer is it works in pyppylinux ?

No.
It could be made to work, but a lot of work to port it.

Good day everyone,

I don't know what problems many of you have with writing .iso or .img files to usb. Most times I download distros with CP, then just copy to laptop and write with EasyDD. Even EasyDD is not necessary, years ago I simply copied the images to usb. Worked also most times, just sometimes faulty.

But one thing I really don't understand: What for you're using Ventoy? If you have for example EasyOS installed on USB, you can install Limemine or grub4dos, and can boot all other distros you put on your stick. No need for complicated Ventoy.

HI,

Would it be possible to test RssGuard Appimage an add it to the installer?

Description:
RSS Guard is a simple RSS/ATOM feed reader for Windows, Linux, BSD, OS/2 or macOS which can work with RSS/ATOM/JSON feeds as well as many online feed services:

Feedly
Gmail
Google Reader API (Bazqux, FreshRSS, Inoreader, Miniflux, Reedah, The Old Reader and more)
Nextcloud News
Tiny Tiny RSS
Link: https://github.com/martinrotter/rssguar ... 4.AppImage

Thanks in advance.

José Pinto

josepinto wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 3:40 pm

HI,

Would it be possible to test RssGuard Appimage an add it to the installer?

Description:
RSS Guard is a simple RSS/ATOM feed reader for Windows, Linux, BSD, OS/2 or macOS which can work with RSS/ATOM/JSON feeds as well as many online feed services:

Feedly
Gmail
Google Reader API (Bazqux, FreshRSS, Inoreader, Miniflux, Reedah, The Old Reader and more)
Nextcloud News
Tiny Tiny RSS
Link: https://github.com/martinrotter/rssguar ... 4.AppImage

Thanks in advance.

José Pinto

For add RssGuard to Appi (the Appimage installer)

- copy this png in /usr/share/pixmaps

-In /usr/local/appimage/entries/amd64 add the line

<item icon-name=\"rssguard\">RssGuard|${FLGrssguard}|161M|$(gettext 'RSS Guard is a simple feed reader')</item>

(For the description : RSS Guard is a simple feed reader, you can change it. It's the text displayed in Appi. See at the bottom of the picture :

I had added the line at the end of the section ENTRIESnetwork

- in /usr/local/appimage add the line

 RssGuard) DIRECTDL='https://github.com/martinrotter/rssguard/releases/download/4.5.0/rssguard-4.5.0-7175578b6-linux64.AppImage'; DIRECTVER='4.5.0'; MENUcat='X-Internet-browser'; MENUtop='Internet'; MENUname='RssGuard'; ;;

at the list of appimages after case "${aAPP}" in (line 217)

NB : I do not know all the categories in MENUcat so i have chosen X-Internet-browser already in the list

I have tested the installation but not the software.

Came across an alternative AppImage installer that seems to be based on the way Arch Linux AUR does things. Quite a few people in the dev team for it. See my post here for brief summary related to my trial of it: https://forum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic. ... 990#p99990

I'm interested to know how it compares to this EasyOS AppImage installer.

wiak wrote: Sat Sep 30, 2023 9:44 am

I'm interested to know how it compares to this EasyOS AppImage installer.

EasyOS AppImage Installer:

1. GUI app
2. Installs each app to run as it's own user. For example, OpenShot will run as user "openshot" with home folder /home/openshot -- other apps cannot see into it.
3. AppImages install directly to the working-partition, not within the folder-hierarchy that runs in RAM. For example, not under /opt.
4. Updating supported.
5. /files/apps/<app name> special folder created, for saving project files, that other apps cannot see into. This is also direct to the working-partition.

Pretty much EasyOS-specific. In theory, could be made to run on some other pup-derivative, but quite a lot of work involved in the port.

I have never tried app image version Balena Etcher in Easy. But have had it for long time in MX-19 and its worked flawlessly. I dont remember where I got it, but its balenaEtcher-1.7.9-x64.AppImage. Been while now, but think Rufus will run in WINE, know I tried it at one point, but too long ago to remember any details. dd is of course always an option. I just kept using balenaEtcher cause it worked and stupid simple interface.

Stand alone Balena etcher appimage will work on EasyOS but not the installed version before.

I would suggest Thorium browser to integrate as installable AppImage. Its a quite fast, effective and more recent version of a Chromium fork as "ungoogled Chromium"