Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

@ Caramel and Feodorf

Hi Guys. Thank you very much guys for the support. As already stated, I've already found a substitute for AnyDesk (HopToDesk).
Regarding the issue with AnyDesk, I've tried it on 2 EasyOS systems and it occurs on both of them. However, since I have more than 200 foreign packages installed (as already stated, and on both systems), it could be a conflict with some other library. But honestly this sounds strange to me because the issue did not occur on v6.2, for sure. So it must be conflicting with some libraries which were added recently.

Sure facts:

- Did not occur on EasyOS v6.2
- Occurs for every possible version of AnyDesk on v6.3.1 (deb package, flatpak, tar.gz archive)
- looks not to depend on any particular harware configuration
- no other software looks to have suffered the update to v6.3.1 (that's also why I didn't notice it at first)

FeodorF wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 8:28 am

Hello @Caramel .

Ref.: Anydesk

Code: Select all

/etc/profile.d/vte.csh: Zeile 19: Syntaxfehler beim unerwarteten Symbol »!«
/etc/profile.d/vte.csh: Zeile 19: `if ( ! $?prompt | ! $?tcsh | ! $?TERM | ! $?VTE_VERSION )'

.csh points out to be a C-shell/csh script

Are bash/ash/sh 100% compatible with csh scripts?

I don't know anything at all. This may be my first time reading about csh

Federico wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 10:33 am

@ Caramel and Feodorf

Hi Guys. Thank you very much guys for the support. As already stated, I've already found a substitute for AnyDesk (HopToDesk).
Regarding the issue with AnyDesk, I've tried it on 2 EasyOS systems and it occurs on both of them. However, since I have more than 200 foreign packages installed (as already stated, and on both systems), it could be a conflict with some other library. But honestly this sounds strange to me because the issue did not occur on v6.2, for sure. So it must be conflicting with some libraries which were added recently.

Sure facts:

- Did not occur on EasyOS v6.2
- Occurs for every possible version of Anydesk on v6.3.1 (deb package, flatpak, tar.gz archive)
- looks not to depend on any particular harware configuration
- no other software looks to have suffered the update to v6.3.1 (that's also why I didn't notice it at first)

Ibus was added in v6.3 :
https://bkhome.org/news/202409/ibus-pin ... piled.html
https://bkhome.org/news/202409/ibus-inp ... in-oe.html

( EDIT : ibus is listed in PKGget but not installed)

But this may not be the cause

No clue in the logs anydesk.trace ?

Caramel wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 12:14 pm

I don't know anything at all. This may be my first time reading about csh

Ibus was added in v6.3 :
https://bkhome.org/news/202409/ibus-pin ... piled.html
https://bkhome.org/news/202409/ibus-inp ... in-oe.html

( EDIT : ibus is listed in PKGget but not installed)

But this may not be the cause

No clue in the logs anydesk.trace ?

The csh file was just the cause of an error on screen. I deleted the file and the error disappeared, but the issue persisted. So, it shouldn't have anything to do with the issue (please always read previous conversations fully).

The anydesk.trace file contains lots of errors of the type:

unix_base.dbus.logind_manager - Error listing logind session: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.login1 was not provided by any .service files

unix_base.dbus.consolekit - Error getting active consolekit session: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit was not provided by any .service files

The entire file is 1421 rows long, and these errors repeat themselves many times. Also, it doesn't find the libgtkglext-x11-1.0.so library (which doesn't look to be found on Debian.org).

Federico wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 1:01 pm

The anydesk.trace file contains lots of errors of the type:

Code: Select all

unix_base.dbus.logind_manager - Error listing logind session: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.login1 was not provided by any .service files

unix_base.dbus.consolekit - Error getting active consolekit session: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit was not provided by any .service files

The entire file is 1421 rows long, and these errors repeat themselves many times. Also, it doesn't find the libgtkglext-x11-1.0.so library (which isn't to be found on Debian.org).

The package in Debian (Bookworm) is libgtkglext1 (https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/libgtkglext1)

In anydesk.trace, he last few lines are the most interesting. Maybe starting by CRITICAL or something similar

Caramel wrote: ↑Sun Sep 22, 2024 1:12 pm

The package in Debian (Bookworm) is libgtkglext1 (https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/libgtkglext1)

In anydesk.trace, he last few lines are the most interesting. Maybe starting by CRITICAL or something similar

Ah yes, thank you, probably I just mistyped the name of the package, sorry.

On the anydesk.trace file the word CRITICAL is no where to be found.

@ All

The problem with AnyDesk is now solved. It looks like on Scarthgap 6.3.1 a new dependeny is needed (libgtkglext1) which on previous EasyOS versions was not.

Download

Dependencies:

- libpolkit-gobject-1-0
- libsystemd0
- libgtkglext1

Please remember that the program cannot be run as root (use run-as-spot).

@ Feodorf and Caramel
It looks like the problem was only caused by the lack of libgtkglext1. And this wasn't immediately evident because the program does not say anything about this on its output.
Therefore, ibus doesn't really look like having anything to do with this.
Thank you very much guys once again for having helped me fix also this.

From reading the blog, it appears that EasyOS is maturing and a new project could be taking over. IMHO, it would still be worthwhile to devise some mechanism to allow any flatpak to be installed. I am not a programmer so have no idea what that entails. I wouldn't be surprised if it was infeasible. I am actually using EasyOS and find that it satisfies my needs. Right now, programs that are not available in Scarthgap, I can theoretically download to a Buster container. Unfortunately, a lot of libraries and even programs are no longer available from the repositories. I am thinking that perhaps Bookwormpup may have to be downloaded to a container, since Debian Bookworm is the current stable version of Debian.

myke wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 2:25 pm

I am thinking that perhaps Bookwormpup may have to be downloaded to a container, since Debian Bookworm is the current stable version of Debian.

If I recall right, Barry recently said he's putting Easy Bookworm back on the front burner, so we may have it soon. I am EAGERLY awaiting it, because it'll give me the same awesome experience that Easy Buster did - a package manager that has nearly everything I want and need, and lets me install it all quickly and easily! The power or Debian repos combined with all the advantanges of Easy!

I can hardly wait! It'll be a big practicality and usability boost for the average user!

EasyOS does not wither. Barry is searching for a way to transform it in order to include more packages in it. Lastly he is considering to embed it inside Bedrock, which is basically a way to run multiple distributions at once and let them communicate with each other. But this is all just hypothetic for the moment.

@ mike

You can already install any flatpak: just use the Customize button on Flapi (the flatpak installer).

1) Go to the web-page of the flatpak you want to install (for example qView) and copy the corresponding url onto the clipboard (memory).
2) Launch Flapi (Menu --> Configuration --> Flatpak installation program) and press the Customize button.
3) Here fill in the fields as follows:

Installer Category --> Choose an appropriate category for the flatpak (for example: Graphics)
Project URL --> https://flathub.org/de/apps/com.interversehq.qView
App ID --> com.interversehq.qView]qView
App Name --> Choose a name for you (for example: qView)
Description --> Type in a description for you: (for example: Practical and minimal image viewer)

4) Press the Add button. Flapi will open the webpage you provided using the default browser, in order for it to verify that the URL is correct. Confirm the exactness of the URL by pressing the Page OK button.
5) The flatpak will be added to Flapi inside the category you provided. Now you can install and update it.

Federico wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 5:30 pm

You can already install any flatpak: just use the Customize button on Flapi (the flatpak installer).

Yeah, but the problems are (1) not everything is available as a flatpak, and (2) for any app that needs substantial and regular access to several/many different areas of the real (not sandboxed fake) filesystem (like a file manager, or many other kinds of apps), the flatpak sandbox is a pain in the butt and not workable.

EasyOS does not wither. Barry is searching for a way to transform it in order to include more packages in it. Lastly he is considering to embed it inside Redrock, which is basically a way to run multiple distributions at once and let them communicate with each other. But this is all just hypothetic for the moment.

I have supreme confidence in Barry. I'm betting he'll somehow figure out some way to let us run darn near anything easily and efficiently inside Easy. He's already looking into it now.

Stogie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 6:10 pm

Yeah, but the problems are (1) not everything is available as a flatpak, and (2) for any app that needs substantial and regular access to several/many different areas of the real (not sandboxed fake) filesystem (like a file manager, or many other kinds of apps), the flatpak sandbox is a pain in the butt and not workable.

I have supreme confidence in Barry. I'm betting he'll somehow figure out some way to let us run darn near anything easily and efficiently inside Easy. He's already looking into it now.

Of course flatpaks are not the ultimate solution. You probably know that I've pioneered the installation and usage of KDE Dolphin on EasyOS, and that I never could even think about using a flatpak for that (because of several obvious limitations regarding file system access).

But the point of the question is, that sometimes it looks to me that you are asking for the impossible.

EasyOS, as well as Puppy Linux generally speaking, is a Debian derivative. This means that it will be possible to install almost any package from the Debian repository, even though the own official repository is much smaller than the Debian one.
The same is true for most other compact Debian derivatives, because Debian is basically the mother of all of them. If that wasn't the case, they wouldn't be derivatives, isn't it?
Now: on EasyOS you have a plethora of pre-installed packages, plus a large amount of software available on its repository and even the possibility to install almost every deb package in existence. I wonder what more you can want.

The non easyness of installing software by manually taking care of all of its dependencies is somehow inherent to the Linux world itself, not any fault of EasyOS.

Federico wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 8:34 pm

...plus a large amount of software available on its repository

Easy Buster had that. The later versions of Easy do not.

I wonder what more you can want.

In Easy Buster the package manager had 95% of the software I want.
In Easy versions after Buster the package manager does NOT have 95% of the software I want.

What I want is a package manager that has 95% of the software I want, like Easy Buster had.

If Barry makes Easy Bookworm soon, my understanding is that like Easy Buster it'll be built from Debian binary packages, so I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I'll have again: a package manager that actually HAS STUFF in it, and I'll be very happy indeed.

EasyOS, as well as Puppy Linux generally speaking, is a Debian derivative. This means that it will be possible to install almost any package from the Debian repository, even though the own official repository is much smaller than the Debian one...

... and even the possibility to install almost every deb package in existence.

How exactly does one do that? If I'm using Easy Kirkstone and nothing I need is in the pkgget default OE repositories, can I somehow point pkgget to Debian repositories instead? I saw no option to do that. I tried using an Easy Buster machine's petget to install some packages (which worked fine) then I manually grabbed the .DEB files it downloaded and I copied them to an Easy Kirkstone PC and tried using them, but that only worked for certain packages not others, and it was a pain in the butt with manual dependency tracking and didn't always work anyway.

How exactly do I, without a lot of effort and pain, "install almost any package from the Debian repository, even though the own official repository is much smaller than the Debian one" ?

@Stogie
I am taking up QV development again. That uses the Void package repository, which is quite large.
Will post about it soon.

BarryK wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 9:49 pm

@Stogie
I am taking up QV development again. That uses the Void package repository, which is quite large.
Will post about it soon.

Awesome, that sounds like it has potential! Thanks Barry!

Stogie wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 9:23 pm

EasyOS, as well as Puppy Linux generally speaking, is a Debian derivative. This means that it will be possible to install almost any package from the Debian repository, even though the own official repository is much smaller than the Debian one...

... and even the possibility to install almost every deb package in existence.

How exactly does one do that? If I'm using Easy Kirkstone and nothing I need is in the pkgget default OE repositories, can I somehow point pkgget to Debian repositories instead? I saw no option to do that. I tried using an Easy Buster machine's petget to install some packages (which worked fine) then I manually grabbed the .DEB files it downloaded and I copied them to an Easy Kirkstone PC and tried using them, but that only worked for certain packages not others, and it was a pain in the butt with manual dependency tracking and didn't always work anyway.

How exactly do I, without a lot of effort and pain, "install almost any package from the Debian repository, even though the own official repository is much smaller than the Debian one" ?

Very simply: by downloading all packages of the software you want and installing them one by one. The Debian repository is always there, no one has deleted it! Just read which dependenciees are needed and install them, I've also tried several times to be helpful in doing that.

Linux requires effort and pain generally speaking. The reason for that is that distributions aren't identical, but just similar one another. Unix was never meant to be used by the average person, but by professors, university students and engineers. Linux is an attempt to make it more approachable. Furtherly, I think that generally speaking, to pretend everything without any effort and any pain is not the right way not only to use an operating system but also to face life.

Federico wrote:

Furtherly, I think that generally speaking, to pretend everything without any effort and any pain is not the right way not only to use an operating system but also to face life.

Probably most of us don't like pain, so to avoid it as much as possible, in case you really want to make use of Debian packages, better run a system that is actually *based* on Debian in the first place.

Very simply: by downloading all packages of the software you want and installing them one by one. The Debian repository is always there, no one has deleted it! Just read which dependenciees are needed and install them, I've also tried several times to be helpful in doing that.

Is unnecessary painful that way IMHO.

fredx181 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2024 3:50 pm

Probably most of us don't like pain, so to avoid it as much as possible, in case you really want to make use of Debian packages, better run a system that is actually *based* on Debian in the first place.

I've been happily using more than 2 hundred foreign packages downloaded from the Debian repository for several years now.
Applications manually installed through Debian packages:

- PCManFM
- PCManFM-QT
- Thunar
- KDE Dolphin
- KDE Okular
- KDE K-Torrent
- Filezilla
- OCRmyPDF
- AnyDesk
- HopToDesk
- TeamViewer
- Remmina
- rdesktop

and I honestly can't remember them all! And I have never had one single issue. For sure they require a minimum of attention after the system has been updated, but you can't have a cake and eat it too.
Barry will never be able to give you the possibility to install all of the Linux software in existence, on one distribution and with a single mouse click, it doesn't matter how capable and experienced he is, because that's simply not possible.

I think that one should distinguish between people who need software and people who like playing with software: if you really need a software, you'll for sure install it regardless of how "painful" it is.

Some of us do not have the time for, nor any interest in, spending lots of time and effort doing complicated, trial-and-error, highly technical experimentation just to get pieces of software working... maybe, or maybe not working at all, despite the time and effort spent. Our time is valuable and we are not interested in blowing tons of it on that. If someone is INTERESTED in such technical things that's great, but many (most?) people ARE NOT, and would rather be doing other things with that time.

We want an easy and quick way to install a good selection of software, so we don't have to screw around endlessly with the guts and configuration of an OS.

It's like people who own a car and just want transportation, versus people who want to spend hundreds of hours heavily customizing it.

Linux requires effort and pain generally speaking.

No, it does not. Look at Ubuntu, Mint, Zorin OS and quite a few other distros, where typically users DO NOT EVER have to do ANY of that time-consuming highly technical experimentation to install software, they simply choose from a very wide selection of software and install it simply, easily and quickly, just like Windows users can. So Linux DOES NOT inherently have to involve all this pain and effort.

Stogie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 24, 2024 7:33 pm

Some of us do not have the time for, nor any interest in, spending lots of time and effort doing complicated, trial-and-error, highly technical experimentation just to get pieces of software working... maybe, or maybe not working at all, despite the time and effort spent. Our time is valuable and we are not interested in blowing tons of it on that. If someone is INTERESTED in such technical things that's great, but many (most?) people ARE NOT, and would rather be doing other things with that time.

We want an easy and quick way to install a good selection of software, so we don't have to screw around endlessly with the guts and configuration of an OS.

It's like people who own a car and just want transportation, versus people who want to spend hundreds of hours heavily customizing it.

Linux requires effort and pain generally speaking.

No, it does not. Look at Ubuntu, Mint, Zorin OS and quite a few other distros, where typically users DO NOT EVER have to do ANY of that time-consuming highly technical experimentation to install software, they simply choose from a very wide selection of software and install it simply, easily and quickly, just like Windows users can. So Linux DOES NOT inherently have to involve all this pain and effort.

You see: what is a distribution? That's the question.
Is it just a collection of programs or something more?
I think the second one.
There are 2 ways of developing a Linux distribution: focusing on quantity and focusing on quality.
I think that quantity is much easyer to focus on than quality, because quality requires developing true innovations.
Really, what do you think is easyer? To make a system really better or to just cram it with all of the stuff of the world?
I think that it's enough to have enough people working in a team for having the time for compiling a huge amount of programs at every new release.
Anyway, I don't think it's crucial, since the possibility of installing any program is kept on EasyOS - any .deb package can be installed by just double clicking it -. So, I don't consider it as being a lack of any kind.
If you think otherwise well, everyone has own priorities. You can just install and use any of the distros you mentioned.

any .deb package can be installed by just double clicking it

This has not been my experience. As I said, I tried installing several .deb files on Kirkstone and some of them worked, and some of them didn't. If you had better luck that's great, but I didn't.

Notably I tried installing my favorite file manager XFE from its .deb files, first clicking the .deb for the "libfox" toolkit it requires, the "xfe-themes" .deb file, then the main XFE .deb file itself. It didn't work at all. That was on Easy Kirkstone where XFE isn't in the package manager, but on Easy Buster, the package manager does have XFE, and it installed it and its dependent toolkit easily and successfully with just a few mouse clicks.

On Kirkstone I also tried clicking .deb files for commandline-only tools like a file metadata editor, image recompression tools, etc. Some worked, some didn't. On Easy Buster, these tools are in the package manager, which installs them all easily and successfully.

Also if it were that easy, Barry probably wouldn't be looking into multiple ways to increase the package selection available (which he's doing right now). He'd just say, "Hey everyone, just get whatever .deb files you want and click them!" He's not doing that.

Barry, can you weigh in? Can we all just click whatever .deb files we want? Am I doing it wrong somehow, while Federico is doing it right, or something?

Stogie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 2:39 pm

any .deb package can be installed by just double clicking it

This has not been my experience. As I said, I tried installing several .deb files on Kirkstone and some of them worked, and some of them didn't. If you had better luck that's great, but I didn't.

Notably I tried installing my favorite file manager XFE from its .deb files, first clicking the .deb for the "libfox" toolkit it requires, the "xfe-themes" .deb file, then the main XFE .deb file itself. It didn't work at all. That was on Easy Kirkstone where XFE isn't in the package manager, but on Easy Buster, the package manager does have XFE, and it installed it and its dependent toolkit easily and successfully with just a few mouse clicks.

On Kirkstone I also tried clicking .deb files for commandline-only tools like a file metadata editor, image recompression tools, etc. Some worked, some didn't. On Easy Buster, these tools are in the package manager, which installs them all easily and successfully.

Also if it were that easy, Barry probably wouldn't be looking into multiple ways to increase the package selection available (which he's doing right now). He'd just say, "Hey everyone, just get whatever .deb files you want and click them!" He's not doing that.

Barry, can you weigh in? Can we all just click whatever .deb files we want? Am I doing it wrong somehow, while Federico is doing it right, or something?

Federico has put in a lot of work to get foreign debs to work, which is ok for him, but not recommended for most people.

BarryK wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 2:54 pm

Stogie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 2:39 pm

any .deb package can be installed by just double clicking it

This has not been my experience. As I said, I tried installing several .deb files on Kirkstone and some of them worked, and some of them didn't. If you had better luck that's great, but I didn't.

Notably I tried installing my favorite file manager XFE from its .deb files, first clicking the .deb for the "libfox" toolkit it requires, the "xfe-themes" .deb file, then the main XFE .deb file itself. It didn't work at all. That was on Easy Kirkstone where XFE isn't in the package manager, but on Easy Buster, the package manager does have XFE, and it installed it and its dependent toolkit easily and successfully with just a few mouse clicks.

On Kirkstone I also tried clicking .deb files for commandline-only tools like a file metadata editor, image recompression tools, etc. Some worked, some didn't. On Easy Buster, these tools are in the package manager, which installs them all easily and successfully.

Also if it were that easy, Barry probably wouldn't be looking into multiple ways to increase the package selection available (which he's doing right now). He'd just say, "Hey everyone, just get whatever .deb files you want and click them!" He's not doing that.

Barry, can you weigh in? Can we all just click whatever .deb files we want? Am I doing it wrong somehow, while Federico is doing it right, or something?

Federico has put in a lot of work to get foreign debs to work, which is ok for him, but not recommended for most people.

In my experience as a simple user (I am neither a developer nor a Linux expert) the majority of programs downloaded from Debian are installed with a simple double click. When that's not enough, I launch the program from sakura that tells me which package is missing, I download it and install it. I rarely had to do it again 3 or 4 times. Only once did I have to download about ten packages, wasting about 1 hour. I don't think it's necessary to torment Barry for this, who seems to me to be looking for the best solution to ensure EasyOS's future for many years.

George wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:25 pm

In my experience as a simple user (I am neither a developer nor a Linux expert) the majority of programs downloaded from Debian are installed with a simple double click. When that's not enough, I launch the program from sakura that tells me which package is missing, I download it and install it. I rarely had to do it again 3 or 4 times. Only once did I have to download about ten packages, wasting about 1 hour.

This is interesting. What commandline program is that? I googled a bit and found out about "dpkg" and I assume you mean that. Doing "dpkg -I filename.deb" does show dependencies including minimum version that's required for each. I can then check in the regular package manager and search for each dependency to see if it's installed already or not, then get the .deb files for all the ones that aren't, then finally install the main .deb file.

I didn't know about "dpkg" the first time I tried manually installing .deb files. I think I'll try again now, and see how it goes. It'd be great if it's reasonably non-hassling to install .deb files and I was just doing it wrong until now!

I'll mess around some more and see what I can accomplish.

I don't think it's necessary to torment Barry for this, who seems to me to be looking for the best solution to ensure EasyOS's future for many years.

I wasn't tormenting him, just trying to help. I'm sure there will be a great solution to this issue eventually.

One more thought.... if we can do this (manually look at dependencies, then manually install those .deb files, then the main .deb file), this sounds like the manual version of exactly what a package manager does automatically. And if this manual process WORKS.... well then, what prevents the Easy package manager from simply being pointed at Debian repos? Either a toggle switch between repos (OE or Debian), or simply adding a new fifth package manager that's identical to the current one that uses OE repos except this new one is pointing at Debian repos instead?

It can't be that simple... can it? Because if we can do the same thing manually, it sounds like it might actually BE that simple! But I'm sure there's some limitation or roadblock I'm missing here....

Interesting file manager also XFE. I just needed to download and install 4 packages for it (2 of them are optional): it didn't take more than 5 minutes.

Packages:

xfe
libfox-1.6-0
xfe-i18n (translations)
xfe-themes

Probably the compatibility between EasyOS and the Debian repository has improved over time. Of course this XFE is a good file manager, but it's barely comparable to KDE Dolphin.

Not only was I successfull in installing foreign packages, but I basically created K-Easy and I've always wished the real creation of something like that, and I've always prompted people to do the same. And I've always tried helping prople in doing the same. I've been doing that since EasyOS Dunfell.

The reason for that, I think, is that what you get if you do that is something much better than any other distribution which includes KDE by default. Much better than K-Ubuntu, much better than MX-Linux. What you get is basically the best Linux of all time, because the best version of the operating system is finally reunited with the best applications available for it.

I'm still dreaming about K-Easy, although I'm so used to manually downloading and installing packages by now that I think it can be considered as a normal installation method.

And, I think that even if the EasyOS repository will never be enlarged, in the long run EasyOS will overtake all the other distros. Because you see: EasyOS has the best operating system and best user experience, it lacks the availability of KDE apps, but you can install them anyway if you wish so. The other distros instead have inherent strange limitations in themeselves, and they are heavy, and they take a lot of space, and they download updates all the time... and the user will always have to deal with this, regardless of the presence of the KDE apps in repository.

Stogie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:59 pm

George wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:25 pm

In my experience as a simple user (I am neither a developer nor a Linux expert) the majority of programs downloaded from Debian are installed with a simple double click. When that's not enough, I launch the program from sakura that tells me which package is missing, I download it and install it. I rarely had to do it again 3 or 4 times. Only once did I have to download about ten packages, wasting about 1 hour.

This is interesting. What commandline program is that? I googled a bit and found out about "dpkg" and I assume you mean that. Doing "dpkg -I filename.deb" does show dependencies including minimum version that's required for each. I can then check in the regular package manager and search for each dependency to see if it's installed already or not, then get the .deb files for all the ones that aren't, then finally install the main .deb file.

I didn't know about "dpkg" the first time I tried manually installing .deb files. I think I'll try again now, and see how it goes. It'd be great if it's reasonably non-hassling to install .deb files and I was just doing it wrong until now!

I'll mess around some more and see what I can accomplish.

I don't think it's necessary to torment Barry for this, who seems to me to be looking for the best solution to ensure EasyOS's future for many years.

I wasn't tormenting him, just trying to help. I'm sure there will be a great solution to this issue eventually.

One more thought.... if we can do this (manually look at dependencies, then manually install those .deb files, then the main .deb file), this sounds like the manual version of exactly what a package manager does automatically. And if this manual process WORKS.... well then, what prevents the Easy package manager from simply being pointed at Debian repos? Either a toggle switch between repos (OE or Debian), or simply adding a new fifth package manager that's identical to the current one that uses OE repos except this new one is pointing at Debian repos instead?

It can't be that simple... can it? Because if we can do the same thing manually, it sounds like it might actually BE that simple! But I'm sure there's some limitation or roadblock I'm missing here....

Sakura is the standard EasyOS terminal for running command line commands. If after double clicking on, for example, xfe.deb you can't find the entry in the main menu or it doesn't work, open sakura, type xfe -> ENTER -> it will tell you that libfox-1.6-0 is missing -> download from debian - > double click -> again launch xfe from sakura and so on... I think a quarter of an hour in total. No need for complicated procedures, dpkg etc

George wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 4:25 pm

In my experience as a simple user (I am neither a developer nor a Linux expert) the majority of programs downloaded from Debian are installed with a simple double click. When that's not enough, I launch the program from sakura that tells me which package is missing, I download it and install it. I rarely had to do it again 3 or 4 times. Only once did I have to download about ten packages, wasting about 1 hour. I don't think it's necessary to torment Barry for this, who seems to me to be looking for the best solution to ensure EasyOS's future for many years.

Yes I confirm that this is the correct way to install software from the Debian repository.

1) Find the main package of the program and install it.

2) Launch the program from a Sakura shell (or any other command line program) and see which libraries are missing by reading the output of the program.

3) Download and install the missing library.

4) Repeat step 2 as many times as needed, till when the program is completely installed.

Now: for the KDE apps I already went through all of this, and that's why I posted the list of needed packages: in order for anyone to just download and install them, without the need of going through this procedure again.

To find dependencies with debian apps

Another method is to use a good extraction app such as Uextract on the debian file.
You can find the control file inside. Some useful information about dependencies might be found there.

https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-polic ... ields.html
_____________________________________________

Barry has worked hard to make Easy compatible with many different repos, but whats wrong with just using deb2sfs to utilize debian repos for those that need more than OE?
https://bkhome.org/news/202209/easy-cre ... b2sfs.html

in addition to the method Federico utilzes, I find it helps to review (for example with xfe),
https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/xfe
to get a glimpse of the expected work ahead

I didn't know just trying to run the program would give a list of missing dependencies. Very nice!

"dpkg -I filename.deb" lists them all too though, and dpkg is already built into Easy. So it's another option.

Thanks for the info, going to keep trying some stuff.

Stogie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2024 7:53 pm

I didn't know just trying to run the program would give a list of missing dependencies. Very nice!

"dpkg -I filename.deb" lists them all too though, and dpkg is already built into Easy. So it's another option.

Thanks for the info, going to keep trying some stuff.

I used to use dpkg on Ubuntu and other distros, before knowing about Puppy and EasyOS. Anyway, first of all that's not the same, because it would list all of the dependencies, not just the needed ones. More over, it doesn't really seem to work:

# dpkg -l dolphin_22.12.3-1_amd64.deb
    Name           Version
+++-==============-==============
#

In fact, as you can see, there is no option for showing the dependencies of a package, Could it be that it only works for packages of the system (not for foreign packages)?

# dpkg
BusyBox v1.36.1 (2023-05-18 22:31:00 UTC) multi-call binary.

Usage: dpkg [-ilCPru] [-F OPT] PACKAGE

Install, remove and manage Debian packages

	-i,--install	Install the package
	-l,--list	List of installed packages
	--configure	Configure an unpackaged package
	-P,--purge	Purge all files of a package
	-r,--remove	Remove all but the configuration files for a package
	--unpack	Unpack a package, but don't configure it
	--force-depends	Ignore dependency problems
	--force-confnew	Overwrite existing config files when installing
	--force-confold	Keep old config files when installing