Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Clarity wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:58 am

Since most members have multiple PCs, is it time to add SAMBA and its utils to the Beta so that it can be tested as a part of the system before GA?

@Clarity, the 90's are over. Many computer owners store their precious files in the cloud (and don't have to sync files between PCs), or at least, don't share files through the LAN. Most operating systems these days have built-in firewalls, because only a minority of home computers are SMB servers (or servers, in general).

Samba is big, and SMB (plus related protocols) has always been a major source of vulnerabilities (Conficker, WannaCry, you name it). While useful in a corporate network with Windows machines, I don't think Samba should be part of the default installation in a distro for personal computers, and especially a small or light one. Just smbclient, without the server component - maybe. But IMHO you should stop asking for preinstalled Samba on every occasion and accept the fact that sometimes you'll just need to install it yourself, then whitelist a couple of ports in your firewall.

@rockedge / @fredx181 / @wiak :-

Beta 11 running very nicely here, guys. I doubt I shall ever need - or want! - a lot of this additional save-function/running in different modes stuff you guys have been busting your tails over recently, but don't think the effort isn't appreciated.....'cos it IS.

It's great to know our community devs are still as enthusiastic over this stuff as they ever were. Well done, all of you!

Cheers.

Mike.

@Clarity :-

For your purposes, you'll probably find that although Bill's old Samba-TNG project is long since deprecated, it's just as functional as ever if all you need it for is purely LAN (home network) stuff:-

https://oldforum.puppylinux.com/viewtopic.php?t=60204

Very easy to set-up, and extremely simple to use. It worked for me for several years.

(Bill has long since pointed folks to the "full" Samba - which I always found horrendously complicated to set up and use - but if you want to take a look at Samba-TNG & would like the pets, I can supply them.....I have them "tucked away" somewhere.)

Mike.

Thanks Mike, but SAMBA continues to be developer by developers across the world and maintains efforts in functionality, performance and security. This is notwithstanding that Android and Apple services work in concern with SAMBA development to assure that their products allow easy data exchanges when necessary.

I dont agree with @dimkr , but that's another story as you can see over his past. (Hope he doesn't go an attack tirade.)

I am aware of the TNG, but feel there is safety in what SAMBA offers in a best solution for 64bit PCs, ATM. The current SAMBAs from PUP developers work just fine with useful utilities.

At least you, @mikewalsh, recognize that we, Puppy users, dont live in isolated worlds and the the products in PUP+DOG distros have traditionally kept up and played nicely with technology movements.

Thanks.

@Clarity There are already components in KLV that are needed for SAMBA connections.

Open Thunar and browse your network. Sometimes the other Puppy's with simple SAMBA turned on will not show up in Thunar but if manually inserted like smb://power210 (the machine name is power210) it finds and connects through Thunar.

What KLV-Airedale-beta11 does not yet have is a SAMBA server built in.

rockedge wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:51 am

@Clarity There are already components in KLV that are needed for SAMBA connections.

Open Thunar and browse your network. Sometimes the other Puppy's with simple SAMBA turned on will not show up in Thunar but if manually inserted like smb://power210 (the machine name is power210) it finds and connects through Thunar.
....

Yes, and also FTP can be mounted through Thunar, that's the advantage of having "gvfs" installed.

Thanks guys. As mentioned, this project continues to progress and improve! All is well.

My 'only' reason for mentioning is that many of users, new, and coming from PUPs/Linux/MACs/Wins may be familiar with SAMBA and its utils for net usage. This is more ease of use and understanding and it is NOT in competition with other services such as delivered from Thunar and etc.

Hope that is coming thru clearly.

Thanks guys and 'yes', I for one, am familiar with what each has shared. Only looking at how to continue to make things "all too easy" for people from all backgrounds in or out of Puppyland to step into, feel comfortable, and stay. This is mentioned as we, developers, see the world a lot different than users see it; particularly those with strong Win/MAC backgrounds who want to dip their toes in the Puppy waters. Hoping my comments continue to ring that 'note'.

@dimkr :-

dimkr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:46 am

Clarity wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:58 am

Since most members have multiple PCs, is it time to add SAMBA and its utils to the Beta so that it can be tested as a part of the system before GA?

@Clarity , the 90's are over. Many computer owners store their precious files in the cloud (and don't have to sync files between PCs), or at least, don't share files through the LAN. Most operating systems these days have built-in firewalls, because only a minority of home computers are SMB servers (or servers, in general).

There are, of course, always multiple ways of looking at everything. Yes, I store a lot of stuff "in the cloud", because it's the only way to 'share' it. But I still like to keep a 'back-up' copy - on a USB HDD, kept externally in the back of a cupboard somewhere. And that's only because if you lose your internet connection, for whatever reason, you ARE kinda (*sotto voce, & to put it bluntly*) f***ed...!!

Mike.

@mikewalsh hard drives as a backup solution is something I can understand, and it's still common. Many devices, including some routers and NAS devices, have SMB shares, so a SMB client is handy (and not too big). We have a file manger for file management and network shares, and a browser for cloud storage. But Samba servers is something I haven't seen for years: personally, I think it's a waste of space.

@dimkr, I and others use PUPs to share things (much like as NASes) on the LAN. I also have 2 PUP NAS PCs that have run for years. One is a FATDOG, and the other is a SLACKO64. You keep mentioning SAMBA as something awful/useless, It is NOT!

It has allows our PUPs for years to share any files they have easily and simply using @01Micko's utility (SMS). Its simple, its easy, its failsafe what's not to love. So any PUP can share folder with things over the LAN that need them using a service almost everyone understands. No special understanding needed as the technology has been in all OSes since 1985. This is because it is familiar in its services by everyone.

Puppy implementation is simple, its fast, and its easily understood. Having it in PUPs means no user needs to know installation issues that many new users get wrong and need member help to get on track. Having it built-in has probably save countless hours for those who need to quickly share something on their LAN, no matter if it for a test, or for a one-time, or for continuous, or to provide phone storage needs or to .... (how many other good reasons for its presence would you like for the many ways users have used LAN sharing from the running system?).

SAMBA serves all of us well in this point in time of 64bit PCs, much RAM, and HDDs on every PCs connected to our LANs and sharing information with each device when necessary without ever needing to install anything. PUPs have been great with the compliment of utilities present to make it all too easy for users to exploit the tools to their benefit(s).

Not sure why you have opposition! Is it me or is it SAMBA?

Please dont be angered as I am NOT trying to ruffle your feathers. I am merely making the case for maintaining a useful service that has been in PUPs for years and is supported by the worldwide community of developers, including Tovalds for over 25 years.. It is truly beneficial in purpose. It ISO footprint is negiible, its storage use is efficient, and its CPU demand is tiny. My PUPs, mentioned above, used as NAS have never had the fans ramp up during their lifetimes and I have never has a desktop need ramp up when sharing. It has no negative impact in system operations or desktop use.

Dont take it out on SAMBA because I mentioned it, please.

I am trying out different KLV-Airedale structure setups. Normal frugal install through to the pseudo full install.

Due to recent time constraints, I will be returning to bringing KLV to the RC+ stage sooner than later!

Hi @rockedge Here's new xlunch package.
xlunch-4.1_2.x86_64.xbps
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=down ... vmglVvFkCc
Improvement should be that the icons with name "org....." (e.g. org.xfce.thunar) will show now instead of the 'ghost' icon (modified 'xlunch-menu-update').
And some other modifications, e.g. xlunch entries created at xbps-install time and includes a symlink to 'xlunch-menu-gen" in /root/Startup, which keeps track of new installed (or removed) applications.
Feel free to modify the contents of the package as you wish.
That it shows a ghost icon for picom and pureFTP is because no icon is included in the system.
FYI, installing "devilspie2" will show Xlunch1 and Xlunch2 "undecorated" (no title bar).

And here's also new tzupdate2
As I said already here; viewtopic.php?p=49925#p49925
I didn't really trust the reliability of ntp.ubuntu.com (experienced again that sometimes it didn't work), so changed the ntp server to pool.ntp.org

And I'd like to report that "octoxbps" doesn't run in beta11, missing "run-as-spot' in .desktop file.

@fredx181 Thank you Fred!

I will be adding these in later today to the rootfs. Also I will be fixing the missing run-as-spot octoxbps in the octoxbps.desktop file. In the last system upgrade the octoxbps package was updated and I haven't modified the .desktop file yet.

Another small fix is to add the missing PureFTPD and picom system icons.

@rockedge Re: xlunch
Ooops... see now that xlunch (the way I modified generating entries) doesn't display most of the specific XFCE applications i.e. settings.
It seems that the setup using menu-cache etc.. cannot find these, I will investigate further, perhaps there's a better way.

@fredx181 :-

Like the "Slax" theme there, Fred. Just the odd 'giveaway', here & there, but really nicely done.....

-----------------------------------

@rockedge :-

Never have had any luck trying to run the octoxbps thingy. Every time I've tried it, the processes graph in gKrellM rapidly climbs towards 7-8,000+, and shortly thereafter the system soon seizes up & grinds to a halt.

This even happens in a brand-new, pristine install, as it comes, straight OOTB, with no upper_changes or anything. I install octoxbps via terminal, then try to access the repos via octoxbps. Every time, without fail, the system seizes solid.

I can only think there's some incompatibility with my hardware,somewhere, though it doesn't affect Airedale actually running.....that's hassle-free, and a joy to use. Am I missing something here?

Mike.

mikewalsh wrote:

think there's some incompatibility with my hardware,somewhere, though it doesn't affect Airedale actually running....

There must be some odd reason! I have installed quite a few packages with octoxbps successfully both on bare metal desktops and virtual machines. We'll have to look into what's different on your setup.
I have not seen this lock up and we can see how @wiak and @fredx181 are making out using it on their different setups.

Never the less, we should investigate.

@mikewalsh The LMMS portable rocks in KLV-Airedale. Good work.

I have Audacity, LMMS and Reverb, a MIDI to USB adapter, a ROLAND D-50 and a Yamaha DX-11 going through and acting keyboard controllers for instruments on LMMS.

Crazy stuff. And I just get these things running well and mess around as a total amateur hobbyist. For me it's all about getting the collection of programs running well so it can be used in earnest by the professionals and talented......

rockedge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:45 pm

I am trying out different KLV-Airedale structure setups. Normal frugal install through to the pseudo full install.

My biggest concern with forum frugal Linux installs at the moment continues to come as a result of my only being able to successfully boot a usb stick containing a frugal install of either Puppy or any Dog on this relatively new HP Probook I am working with (which has very security-conscious EFI secure-boot arrangement). No matter what I tried, I could not boot any such frugal install put onto this laptop's internal SSD hard drive (and believe me I tried lots of 'tricks' - including FossaPup's frugalpup gyrog utility EFI install methods that work fine for me on earlier EFI secure boot laptop here). The hard drive itself was never recognised (at initrd stage) by any of the frugal installed distros I tried, though I am going to try again using some other Dog installs. As I've said, I have been able to make full installs of both official Ubuntu, and Zorin (though weedogged variants wouldn't boot - for example I tried weedogit Zorin and a similar weedogit of official Ubuntu, but wouldn't boot).

KLV-Airedale boots fine from usb stick on this machine though (after setting the stick up via gyrog's frugalpup utility via fossapup on other machine (but fossapup itself wouldn't boot... though probably for other reasons concerning maybe needed modern kernel/drivers - life is getting trickier).

Assuming I find no way around the issue, I'm planning to work on a 'hybrid' full/frugal install using overlayfs mounts made after main system has booted - that way I should be able to achieve some sort of upper_changes functionality (using some code from normal WDL initrd/init but at after-boot stage). Of course if I finally find a way to use normal frugal with this system then that hybrid full-install/frugal-install layered system won't be needed, but way things are going secure boot is becoming trickier for smaller distros to work with (grub2 with MOK puppy.cer alone not proving sufficient for this particular laptop situation - can't turn off the Bitlocker secure-boot arrangement either since pre-requisite of its Windows 11 Pro install - well.... I did turn off the Bitlocker part - unencryped the drive as part of that process).

@wiak I wonder now if this is kernel related! On this KLV kernel while I compiled it I set some EFI settings. I saw them and enabled options and if something didn't work I would go back and disable the features. But it did not effect the finished kernel. So those EFI features (not sure what they actually do yet) are set up when the kernel was built

Could those EFI features I turned on be the difference?????

Time to scan the DOT file......

@rockedge :-

I wouldn't worry too much about octoxbps, mate. I appear to be a fairly isolated case; what very few items I install from the Void repos I do via the terminal, and there's no problems there. Mostly, I prefer either converted .pets, or the portables......which I get fully functional in Puppy, before trying them under KLV. Not one has failed to function as of yet.....

Just one of those things, I reckon.

Mike.

@wiak When I boot KLV-Airedale with the 5.16.14-KLV kernel I have noticed that the message during the boot that reads "EFI Signature not found" does NOT appear! I have noticed this and wondered if that is because of the configuration of the KLV kernel since this error DOES appear when I boot Bionic64 or Fossapup64 using the other previous huge kernels.

Before I made the KLV kernel I compiled the same thing with the same configuration but with the aufs5 patches included. So a real huge Puppy Linux kernel.

From the DOT file around line 443:

CONFIG_EFI=y
CONFIG_EFI_STUB=y

then around line 8024:

CONFIG_AUFS_FS=y

Now what if you tried this kernel 5.16.14-RE with the Fossapup64 and see if you can get it to boot??

The kernel -> huge-5.16.14-RE.tar.bz2
configuration->DOTconfig-5.16.14-x86_64-110322

There was a discussion of this last week on this forum! Many see this error message briefly but experience no problems so this has not been addressed. This topic is what got me to notice the slight difference in the boot messages when I start KLV-Airedale.

I will also compile a fresh one with aufs5 patched and those EFI features enabled to help testing. But the 5.16.14-RE should have them. Suggest a kernel and I can try to see if it will build with more of the EFI features enabled.

It might be we're on to something.

wiak wrote:

My biggest concern with forum frugal Linux installs at the moment continues to come as a result of my only being able to successfully boot a usb stick containing a frugal install of either Puppy or any Dog on this relatively new HP Probook I am working with (which has very security-conscious EFI secure-boot arrangement). No matter what I tried, I could not boot any such frugal install put onto this laptop's internal SSD hard drive....
....

Could this have to do with "nvme" ?
On my new laptop the partitions are named e.g. nvme0n1p1 nvme0n1p2 etc.. and I cannot boot KLV, so, (similar as you), booting KLV from USB with FAT32 partition (UEFI boot) and ext4 partition for the changes works OK.
The newest DebianDogs (Bullseye and Bookworm) I can boot successfully from nvme (internal SDD), I guess this has to with the kernel including nvme.ko
(and possibly needs modprobe nvme nvme-core in init script ??? , just guessing)

fredx181 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:15 pm

wiak wrote:

My biggest concern with forum frugal Linux installs at the moment continues to come as a result of my only being able to successfully boot a usb stick containing a frugal install of either Puppy or any Dog on this relatively new HP Probook I am working with (which has very security-conscious EFI secure-boot arrangement). No matter what I tried, I could not boot any such frugal install put onto this laptop's internal SSD hard drive....
....

Could this have to do with "nvme" ?
On my new laptop the partitions are named e.g. nvme0n1p1 nvme0n1p2 etc.. and I cannot boot KLV, so, (similar as you), booting KLV from USB with FAT32 partition (UEFI boot) and ext4 partition for the changes works OK.
The newest DebianDogs (Bullseye and Bookworm) I can boot successfully from nvme (internal SDD), I guess this has to with the kernel including nvme.ko
(and possibly needs modprobe nvme nvme-core in init script ??? , just guessing)

A user on plcinuxos forum had an issue on an installation on a new HP laptop with nvme drive. The solution there and also on newer Pclinuxos .iso image is to preload vmp in the initrd.

fredx181 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 5:15 pm

wiak wrote:

My biggest concern with forum frugal Linux installs at the moment continues to come as a result of my only being able to successfully boot a usb stick containing a frugal install of either Puppy or any Dog on this relatively new HP Probook I am working with (which has very security-conscious EFI secure-boot arrangement). No matter what I tried, I could not boot any such frugal install put onto this laptop's internal SSD hard drive....
....

Could this have to do with "nvme" ?
On my new laptop the partitions are named e.g. nvme0n1p1 nvme0n1p2 etc.. and I cannot boot KLV, so, (similar as you), booting KLV from USB with FAT32 partition (UEFI boot) and ext4 partition for the changes works OK.
The newest DebianDogs (Bullseye and Bookworm) I can boot successfully from nvme (internal SDD), I guess this has to with the kernel including nvme.ko
(and possibly needs modprobe nvme nvme-core in init script ??? , just guessing)

Yes, it is nvme, and I did wonder if support for that was built into the kernel or not, and whether a module was needed loaded for it. But I forget if I tried (I got tired and tried a few related things such as weedogit version of Ubuntu official live distro but maybe I forgot to try modprobing nvme before giving up). I'll give it another go - would obviously need modules for nvme put into the initrd for KLV-Airedale use or a kernel built with nvme included. I'll also look into that vmp thing TerryH (definitely seems same problem in terms of what happens on my system currently): https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.p ... =142155.15
https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.p ... c=144566.0

EDIT: In above pclinuxOS forum threads I also noted a comment about not being able to find device using UUID (had to use the likes of /dev/nvme.....). I'll also have to check if busybox findfs command is working with nvme via UUID (tried full findfs UUID=blablabla and that found the device (/dev/nvme0n1p5) okay (but this is on an already running Zorin system so not a boot attempt - my recollection is that I tried that in my previous boot tests but wasn't finding the device, but I suspect that is kernel driver/module related issue rather than fault with busybox findfs command).

I have reported very long back the problems of nvme harddisk while booting from internal drive. Unfortunately no support was given to me. None of puppy or varient booting from internal nvme SSD. I have been tinkering with this issue for the past one year. I have done ton of googling and seems to be problem lies in initrd or kernel. Average user cannot do anything only experts can solve this issue. Hope an solution will emerge at the earliest

Ramachandra Iyer wrote:

the problems of nvme harddisk while booting from internal drive.

KLV-Airedale-beta11 or KLV-Airedale-beta12 will not boot at all from these drives? Partitions can't be seen?

this is beta12 where it lives in the usual place.

Thank you for quick response. I will try once again. I am going to install grub2 on my system. Currently I am trying to loading from refind.conf. I am fed up with my HP laptop having nvme ssd. Being a average user, I am struggling to boot from nvme.

@Ramachandra Iyer - as I told you privately, your boot setup is not familiar to me & I have no problem booting nvme via syslinux or grub2 bootloaders.
My recent kernels have nvme enabled, but there are 2 further settings - nvme_multipath & nvme_passthru - which I could try next time I make a kernel.
Refind is not commonly used with Puppy linux, so few people on this site will be able to assist with that problem. Switching to grub2 is a good move.

@Ramachandra Iyer it is unclear to me, so I ask: "Are you trying to boot KLV or some other distro from the forum? And, does your modern HP have Intel or a AMD processor?"

HP'systems that have a pre-installed drive use a unique PalmOS-WebOS firmware and on their drives...unlike other manufacturers, quiet as it be known.

I have tried all most all variant including KLV -Airdle. KLV-Airdale is latest one. My personal laptop is HP having ssd nvme (purchased in the year 2021). I assume it is hynix ssd. However, please note all of you that my office HP laptop having normal harddisk is booting everything except KLV-Airdale. I assume that KLV_Airdale is integrated with grub. Otherwise, KLV will also boot from my HP Laptop hahving normal disk.

As already reported that antixlinux is booting from my nvme internal hard disk through refind.conf. No issue !.

As a last resort, I am going to install grub2 in HP Laptop (Both sda & nvme). Is it possible to install grub2 on separate fat32, ESP partition. If possible, please provide simple steps/solutions. I dont want make any issue on windows V10/11 as it is very much required for office work. (My wife is using NvME laptop having Windows11 for his office works through windows VPN setup). So I am so much touch windows boot manager/efi on windows11. Refind.conf on separate partition and fully isolated from windows efi. This idea got from our easyOS. I liked the idea of our Barry Sir for installing on UFEI system. Only issue it has some manual work involved. But it seems to be simple. Unfortunaely, easyos also not booting from nvme disk.

Ramachandra Iyer wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:19 am

I am struggling to boot from nvme.

As far as KLV is concerned and distros built using weedogit.sh I suspect fredx181 is correct. If the kernel itself does not have nvme support built in then WDL initrd won't currently help since it does not as yet contain code to load module nvme.ko or the dependency of that nvme-core.ko. I'll know soon since I'm about to make a new weedogit build on this HP machine. However, if ozsouth's kernels contained nvme drivers inside then the problem is more complicated (I can't remember if I tried KLV with ozsouth kernel though I believe rockedge supplied KLV-Airedale with that previously). I will report back soon on my new boot attempt.