KLA-OT2baseCE-1.1 ( 766 MiB )

[wiak]

One thing for sure, no point anyone writing any GUI frontend for a commandline until is known what command to use.

[Sofiya]

One thing for sure, no point anyone writing any GUI frontend for a commandline until is known what command to use.

in /root/.config/openbox/autostart - Comment out line 17

English and British keyboard setting
type in terminal :

Code: Select all

 localectl --no-convert set-x11-keymap us,gb pc105 " " grp:alt_shift_toggle,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp 

switching layout by Shift + Alt

00-keyboard.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf

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# Written by systemd-localed(8), read by systemd-localed and Xorg. It's
# probably wise not to edit this file manually. Use localectl(1) to
# instruct systemd-localed to update it.
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "system-keyboard"
        MatchIsKeyboard "on"
        Option "XkbLayout" "us,gb"
        Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
        Option "XkbVariant" " "
        Option "XkbOptions" "grp:alt_shift_toggle,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
EndSection

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┌──[ root@void-live ] [ 02:33:16 ]
├── ~
└>  setxkbmap -query
rules:      evdev
model:      pc105
layout:     us,gb
variant:    ,
options:    grp:alt_shift_toggle

[wiak]

Yes. I know nothing about keyboard changing commands.

[wiak]

As for timezone, that can't suddenly start working when it didn't before without some technical reason.

Time setting is not same thing as timezone you have to understand.

The reason I'm saying that is that the issue may arise again if something like the following happens:

You boot a different distro that has been set up to expect the BIOS hardware clock to be set to UTC time not actual local time. Once time is set displayed on such a distro, depending on the way it does things, it can possibly auto change the BIOS clock to other than actual local time. Depends on the underlying time setting commands that distro used. That other distro could be Windows or some other Linux.

If you then boot into KLA, which needs/expects BIOS hardware clock to be at localtme, correctly setting timezone will still not result in correct time displayed.

Be careful therefore when testing different distros in between boots to interrupt boot to check BIOS clock is set to actual local time when time displayed isn't correct even after setting correct timezone. Also good to know which distro is messing with the hardware clock. I read some recent Puppy was using utc rather than local time for hardware BIOS clock, but maybe not.

[wiak]

Maybe this Puppy thread explains more completely the difference between BIOS time, displayed time, and timezone (which is neither) and the problems (and arguments) that continue for years (and some of the why) regarding time setting:

viewtopic.php?p=69258#p69258

[keniv]

@Sofiya
I have KLV-Airedale rc13 installed. While I believe this is based on Void linux I still thought it was worth a look at the output of
setxkbmap -print -verbose 10 in a terminal as I have no problems with the keyboard in Airedale. It's shown below.

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root# setxkbmap -print -verbose 10
Setting verbose level to 10
locale is C
Trying to load rules file ./rules/evdev...
Trying to load rules file /usr/share/X11/xkb/rules/evdev...
Success.
Applied rules from evdev:
rules:      evdev
model:      pc105
layout:     gb
Trying to build keymap using the following components:
keycodes:   evdev+aliases(qwerty)
types:      complete
compat:     complete
symbols:    pc+gb+inet(evdev)
geometry:   pc(pc105)
xkb_keymap {
	xkb_keycodes  { include "evdev+aliases(qwerty)"	};
	xkb_types     { include "complete"	};
	xkb_compat    { include "complete"	};
	xkb_symbols   { include "pc+gb+inet(evdev)"	};
	xkb_geometry  { include "pc(pc105)"	};
};

I've noticed in this output sometimes the model: is shown as "pc105" and I think with F96-CE_2 it was shown as "pc104". Both KLV-Airedale rc13 and F96-CE_2 have working gb keyboards. I'm not sure why this difference occurs but I decided to go back to /root/.config/openbox/autostart and change line 17 from pc104 to pc105 in the hope that it might make a difference but it did not.
Running setxkbmap -print -verbose 10 in KLA OT2baseCE-1.1 still shows layout: as "us".
I don't think that the problem is my hardware as I am not having problems with the keyboard layout in the other OSs I'm using. I also think I am following your instructions correctly. I think it's now probably time to give up on this unless you or others have another idea as to why I'm having this problem. I don't think you'll be unhappy to hear this. Can I just thank others who have added their expertise to this thread.

Regards,

Ken.

[wiak]

I don't think that the problem is my hardware as I am not having problems with the keyboard layout in the other OSs I'm using. I also think I am following your instructions correctly. I think it's now probably time to give up on this unless you or others have another idea as to why I'm having this problem. I don't think you'll be unhappy to hear this. Can I just thank others who have added their expertise to this thread.

Since it works with KLV, the problem is almost certainly not your hardware.

KLV has an advantage in that it uses XFCE desktop where that keyboard setup dev work is already done for us by XFCE development team upstream. So it just now works, which is great of course.

Building a distro from scratch using the likes of Openbox/tint2 is a different, harder, kettle of fish. Openbox is just a desktop manager, tint2 is just a panel - no utility apps provided so all have to be built from scratch or found somewhere else. Takes a lot of effort and time. That base version first release of KLA-OT2 was really just a very slightly amended copy of WDL_Arch64 which I had built and been using for a couple of years at home where my keyboard is US/English. I released it specifically to be developed over time by this community, but with someone other than myself leading that development. I'm too busy on other projects and matters and CE development takes time and contributions from others. Keyboard utility simply not designed or contributed by anyone yet... The KL XFCE releases, on the otherhand have it easy - such are already included by default without our efforts.

It may be that some keyboard utility from DebianDog could be used with KLA-OT2 since many a DebianDog used Openbox/tint2 arrangement - though depends if underneath code by Ubuntu will be similar enough to what Arch Linux expects (per its wiki). Clearly determining the working commandlines is the main part of that future development job. It may well be that Sofiya already indicated the correct commands, but something went wrong in your application of that, or maybe the commands don't work for your specific system for some reason or other. Hopefully a GUI that includes the correct commands will eventuate and then at least the commands will all be run the way the developer intended. Until then I suggest you use some other distro - the problem and need has at least been identified. Either that or move to the US or any country that uses US keyboard and all will be fine...

[Sofiya]

English and British keyboard setting

in /root/.config/openbox/autostart - Comment out line 17

type in terminal :

Code: Select all

 localectl --no-convert set-x11-keymap us,gb pc105 " " grp:alt_shift_toggle,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp 

RESTART X

switching layout by Shift + Alt .or by clicking on the flag icon in the tray.

00-keyboard.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf

Code: Select all

# Written by systemd-localed(8), read by systemd-localed and Xorg. It's
# probably wise not to edit this file manually. Use localectl(1) to
# instruct systemd-localed to update it.
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "system-keyboard"
        MatchIsKeyboard "on"
        Option "XkbLayout" "us,gb"
        Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
        Option "XkbVariant" " "
        Option "XkbOptions" "grp:alt_shift_toggle,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
EndSection

Code: Select all

┌──[ root@void-live ] [ 02:33:16 ]
├── ~
└>  setxkbmap -query
rules:      evdev
model:      pc105
layout:     us,gb
variant:    ,
options:    grp:alt_shift_toggle

[Sofiya]

On the British keyboard, some characters are changing, but I think it should be so

Code: Select all

Shift + 1  !
Shift + 2  “
Shift + 3  £
Shift + ‘  @

To see the flag of the keyboard layout in the tray, set the program

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pacman -S sbxkb

Place for auto -launch in :
/root/Startup/sbxkb

[wiak]

Sofiya, you are trying too hard. I'm exhausted.

[keniv]

@Sofiya
I used the instructions in your previous post and now I can toggle between the us and gb keyboards though us seems to be the default as each time I reboot I have to toggle back to the gb keyboard.

Code: Select all

pacman -S sbxkb

I have downloaded and installed this but I do not see the flag of the keyboard layout in the tray. I have also downloaded your attachment, removed the fake .gz and made it executable but I am confused that both the download from the repository and the attachment have the same name. On installing the "attachment" version I do see the flag in the tray and can toggle between them. Can you tell me if I need both the

Code: Select all

pacman -S sbxkb

and the "attachment" versions of sbxkb. If not can you tell me how to uninstall the one downloaded from the repository.

Regards,

Ken.

[Sofiya]

I used the instructions in your previous post and now I can toggle between the us and gb keyboards though us seems to be the default as each time I reboot I have to toggle back to the gb keyboard.

to set default british keyboard do this

type in terminal :

Code: Select all

 localectl --no-convert set-x11-keymap gb,us pc105 " " grp:alt_shift_toggle,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp 

if you want to keep only British keyboard
type in terminal

Code: Select all

 localectl --no-convert set-x11-keymap gb pc105 " " grp:terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp 

I have downloaded and installed this but I do not see the flag of the keyboard layout in the tray. I have also downloaded your attachment, removed the fake .gz and made it executable but I am confused that both the download from the repository and the attachment have the same name. On installing the "attachment" version I do see the flag in the tray and can toggle between them. Can you tell me if I need both the

yes you need both

the file that I posted "sbxkb.gz" is needed to autorun sbxkb.
to display the country flag in the tray.

[rockedge]

@Sofiya could you share your terminal configuration and PS1=<syntax> in the .bashrc?

@wiak we've gone supersonic........

[Sofiya]

@Sofiya could you share your terminal configuration and PS1=<syntax> in the .bashrc?

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PS1="\[\e[0;36m\]┌──\[\e[0m\][ \[\e[0;33m\]\u\[\e[0m\]\[\e[0;32m\]@\[\e[0;36m\]\h\[\e[0m\] ] [ \[\e[0;36m\]\t\[\e[0m\] ]\n\[\e[0;36m\]├── \[\e[0;32m\]\w\[\e[0;36m\]\n\[\e[0;36m\]└>\[\e[0m\]  "

[keniv]

@Sofiya

to set default british keyboard do this

type in terminal :
CODE: SELECT ALL

localectl --no-convert set-x11-keymap gb,us pc105 , grp:alt_shift_toggle,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp

I've gone for the option of being able to swap to the us keyboard. Can confirm gb keyboard is now the default. Oddly when I first boot up the flag is us. If I press the shift key the flag switches to gb.

yes you need both

Yeah, I even had a look inside "sbxkb.gz". Thanks for all the help with this.

Regards,

Ken.

[Sofiya]

@Sofiya

to set default british keyboard do this

type in terminal :
CODE: SELECT ALL

localectl --no-convert set-x11-keymap gb,us pc105 , grp:alt_shift_toggle,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp

I've gone for the option of being able to swap to the us keyboard. Can confirm gb keyboard is now the default. Oddly when I first boot up the flag is us. If I press the shift key the flag switches to gb.

Did you remember to do this ?
in /root/.config/openbox/autostart - Comment out line 17 #
or remove it entirely

[keniv]

@Sofiya

Did you remember to do this ?
in /root/.config/openbox/autostart - Comment out line 17 #
or remove it entirely

Ah! Didn't know I had to. Commented out now. Will reboot and see if it works.

Ken.
Edit: On a reboot the us flag still appears in the tray but have found pressing any key changes it to the gb flag.

[Sofiya]

@Sofiya

Did you remember to do this ?
in /root/.config/openbox/autostart - Comment out line 17 #
or remove it entirely

Ah! Didn't know I had to. Commented out now. Will reboot and see if it works.

Ken.
Edit: On a reboot the us flag still appears in the tray but have found pressing any key changes it to the gb flag.

Your configuration file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf should look like this

Code: Select all

# Written by systemd-localed(8), read by systemd-localed and Xorg. It's
# probably wise not to edit this file manually. Use localectl(1) to
# instruct systemd-localed to update it.
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "system-keyboard"
        MatchIsKeyboard "on"
        Option "XkbLayout" "gb,us"
        Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
        Option "XkbVariant" " "
        Option "XkbOptions" "grp:alt_shift_toggle,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
EndSection

EDIT: yes i forgot to mention that the program ( sbxkb ) automatically switches to US keyboard.it is installed by default, this is a disadvantage of the program.
to avoid this, you should delete the program, but then you will not have a country flag in the tray.

[keniv]

@Sofiya

Your configuration file in /etc/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf should look like this

I think you meant /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/00-keyboard.conf above. Mine is below. It looks OK to me.

Code: Select all

# Written by systemd-localed(8), read by systemd-localed and Xorg. It's
# probably wise not to edit this file manually. Use localectl(1) to
# instruct systemd-localed to update it.
Section "InputClass"
        Identifier "system-keyboard"
        MatchIsKeyboard "on"
        Option "XkbLayout" "gb,us"
        Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
        Option "XkbVariant" ","
        Option "XkbOptions" "grp:alt_shift_toggle,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
EndSection

EDIT: yes i forgot to mention that the program ( sbxkb ) automatically switches to US keyboard.when choosing any window.
to avoid this, you should delete the program, but then you will not have a country flag in the tray.

I think I will stick with the flag in the tray for now. If it really annoys me I might delete the program and go for just having the gb keyboard.

Ken.

[Sofiya]

Update - KLA-OT2baseCE-1.2 final ( 776 MiB )
viewtopic.php?t=8314

[wiak]

As I mentioned in kla-xfcebase thread, 5 or 6 years ago I used to recompress all sfs files using lz4 compression because system became much more responsive then - particularly important on older computers. Drawback was that lz4 resulted in huge sfs files... Nowadays zstd compression is pretty much as responsive as lz4 but compresses almost as good as xz so I'm planning to use zstd for all sfs files in future (like some puppy releases now; -comp zstd -Xcompression-level 19 -b 512K) despite some increase to iso size. Definitely recommended. On old machines with slow hard drives, using zstd is even better than uncompressed cos slow to load huge uncompressed dir with such drives. Browser opening twice as fast from first boot using zstd compared to xz on my old core2duo laptop.

[rockedge]

@wiak The KLV-Airedale ISO is hanging around 775 mb up to 815 mb with xz SFS compression using 1024 kilobyte blocks. I am toying with the idea of offering a KLV with zstd compressed SFS's. But I am wondering about overall size and not breaking the 1 gigabyte limit on the ISO size but still want to see the performance with zstd compression in the mix. The reason I am not adding a full SAMBA package as a default offering in KLV is the overall size and that from the start KLV is supposed to be a good platform to make the system whatever one wants without that being predetermined by the developers.

I really like running in such a way that all the SFS's are un-squashed and are in a frugal pseudo complete full install which really is a full install in a directory.

In my opinion that is one of the most powerful features, and then spinning off remasters of it by squashing those file system directories again into a entirely new version of KLV.

[Clarity]

I know size is a concern even as network internet capacities have gone up 8X in a single year. Thus ISP and carrier data charge reductions are being seen across the world as plans change giving data away as a part of service or increases in speeds for same money(s).

With this understanding even if the ceiling for current forum distros is set to 1GB, distros from this forum still remain smallest in the industry while being functionally equivalent if not superior to many.

I keep hearing how big SAMBA is while looking over past forums, I am NOT seeing evidence. We ALL know that its benefit, but we seem to be stuck on its size whien it has NOT changed in size appreciably since its introduction in PUPs a decade ago by the combined effors of @01micko, @tazoc, @jamesbond, @kirk .

So if SAMBA has NOT changed much WHY do we continue this march knowing that it is a staple for simple easy secure information sharing?

The fact that it will need to be downloaded, then added, if KL's ignores shipping it does NOT diminish its benefit or its need while it may impact some users to rule it out in favor of other forum offerings which have it enclosed. WE KNOW the value of KL, so if we can include it, I see benefit to the community and less headaches by newbies trying to correctly install it (WE are keenly aware of newbies and the many issues that demand time from developers to support them).

If the size is NOT the issue and the inclusion has a reduction in user complaints or requests, we should evaluate its benefit to them and us. IN fact, its no skin off of our teeth if it is in the build recipe, OOTB. Yet if it stops even 1 request for help with install issues, KL supporters-developers time are the real winners.

[rockedge]

@Clarity I will experiment with a more complete SAMBA setup in KLV and see how it goes. I would like it to work as well.

[wiak]

@wiak The KLV-Airedale ISO is hanging around 775 mb up to 815 mb with xz SFS compression using 1024 kilobyte blocks. I am toying with the idea of offering a KLV with zstd compressed SFS's. But I am wondering about overall size and not breaking the 1 gigabyte limit on the ISO size but still want to see the performance with zstd compression in the mix.

Yes it will be difficult for you to keep under 1GB as things stand. Expect 10 to 20 percent bigger. However, for that penalty initial opening of apps as much as twice as fast meaning twice as responsive. What was sluggish on slower hardware can become pretty much okay. A very big improvement. In my tests zstd runs better than uncompressed even, on older hardware. Using xz makes system slow, using zstd makes system fast. It is hard to argue against for the sake of 100 to 200MB download/storage size. Yes, you may not notice on fast enough computer, but fast enough computer generally has plenty storage space anyway...

As I said, some years ago we resorted to using lz4 recompression - the huge file storage sizes didn't matter at the end of the day. Fast response distros much more important. Zstd is frankly amazing being able to provide similar responsiveness to lz4 but keeping sfs file sizes pretty close to slow xz. Incredible algorithm really.

[wiak]

I haven't personally used Samba for almost twenty years. It seems to me that an addon portable sfs for samba could be built that could be shared between recent KL distros. Alternatively, I guess you just accept extra distro size in CE (community edition) builds. I.e. make a slightly slimmed down klv Airedale base version and bigger CE version including samba and whatever. Thus far, I can't myself think of samba as base release essential (or small) enough, but maybe I'm wrong.

I know Clarity wants samba (client and server?) but who else votes for that extra considering iso size? And then, what about vncserver/client and similar?

[Clarity]

Its not about "wanting" as if this is some sort of crusade.

It is about the smb protocol allowing many LAN units to seamlessly allow access to necessary information. Its been a stable for almost 4 decades. It works with practically all routers, all MACs, all Wins, Linux, every desktop Distrowatch/MajorGeeks OSes, included in every major Unix, etc.

It allows many different home units to client connect gaining access to central/shared information that affords observation, decision making, use in listening or viewing, etc.

It was considered in 1991-92 to be a part of Linux, but decisions (rightfully in terms of hardware building at that time) to develop separate-parallel project.

The world has been a part of its development and benefit as the continual focus of security and speedy information exchanges over the local LAN.

It should NOT be considered a luxury. It is a staple in todays world of LAN connected units.

For years, PUP's implementation has focused on its simplicity (@01micko made it simpler that all other OSes for easy user use). The idea is "if your PC is connected to its LAN, should that PC have information to share, the tool is present to allow with no need to any complexity to do so."

This is NOT a luxury.

FYI

[fredx181]

@Clarity It's a matter of what's desired, some people may need Samba, others not.
Some may want Libreoffice included, or e.g. Gimp or Wine or ....
There's always choice for the user to install what is needed, I'd say.

Btw, IMO you are doing a sort of 'hidden" samba pushing, by showing terminal output in some of your posts:
root# smblient -U% -L localhost
bash: smblient: command not found

"Its not about "wanting"" you said, ok not specially for you, but how about writing a small how-to for samba install and configuration on KL ?

[geo_c]

@Clarity It's a matter of what's desired, some people may need Samba, others not.
Some may want Libreoffice included, or e.g. Gimp or Wine or ....
There's always choice for the user to install what is needed, I'd say.

I fall into the camp of people who will never want or need samba. So as such I'd rather not have it in the base OS. If it was negligible, say 10MB, I'd figure no big deal. Maybe it is that small. But at any rate, some of the more specific tools and frameworks should probably be left up to the user.

Thing about the KL distros is that packages are available and maintained, especially in Arch. So it shouldn't be nearly as tough to install a desired framework the usual mainstream way.

[Clarity]

Thanks Fred, and I understand your position just as i understand wiak's position. In wiak's case, he intends for a useful standalone skeletal that can access the internet...a BASE with as few things to support as he sees.

Fred, as you reflect on office packages, I share that "Geany is an editor. Everyone may NOT use it, but its there for EASE of use."

As such, the same is true for ANY staple included in a distro. Geany is a staple. Abiword in PUP is a staple. SAMBA is merely a staple as all of the other packages in PUPs/FATDOG/EASY/remasters/etc. in this forum.

Please dont look at me as trying to PUSH, as merely someone pointing out something that is useful. We see smb file services in forum distros, mentioned, as well as distro OSes outside of the forum...everywhere, particularly in desktops OSes and servers OSes.

I consider KL which started as one type of CE ('concept edition') maturing to a current FLAGSHIP type of CE ('community edition'). It has been a continuing set of building blocks that has been crafted to be stable, responsive, and ever inclusive as it has continued its life.

To me, it has become a flagship in its technology approaches it has introduced.

The SAMBA concern is just one more element of this distro series's increasing improvement. It not a luxury as it defines what has become expected in many/most full desktops of today.

Its size is nominal so it is NOT the issue, here.

Tomorrow, things, for all of the OSes, could change into something else.

Some may be angered in this information's presentation or the form, but, most wont argue benefit. ... or the benefit of almost every staple is desktops, today.