Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

the firmware file is incorrectly named "00firmware-6.0.12-FP.sfs", but should be "01firmware-6.0.12-FP.sfs". Correcting the title fixed the issue

@Sofiya , @fredx181 , @wiak ,
New upload of rc11 and reverted to the original 01firmware-6.0.0 which has had solid results. The 01firmware-6.0.12-FP I'll need to test some more and it's a little bit bigger.

KLV-Airedale-rc11.iso

wiak wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:11 am

@rockedgeIf you are anything like me, the major problem we suffer is that computing and forum related matters in particular is an addiction.,,

...There is no real legacy in making a distro variant - that is just a cut and paste job and no one is any kind of God to do it....

Like I've said, computing dev work is like chess at the end of the day, hard to play well, and pointless really, but chess is better.

Well although you are correct in what you say, as it is with just about any human endeavor being pointless in and of itself, there is something I've gleaned from my own 'obsessions' over the years.

There are some obsessions which are destructive all the way around. I've struggled with them and fought hard to overcome them. However there are other obsessions which have 'trickled down' into very positive effects on others in my sphere. These would be in the area of music related activities generally, but run a gamut.

Having a passion to understand a subject so well that one can innovate and create tools, systems, and pedagogies to master it, actually has value beyond what you might believe at first.

I have gone to great lengths to blow apart my understanding of subjects and create new ways of doing things, that in the end are really not that new, but as a result my understanding of them might be a little deeper than those who just execute the tried and true do it by the book methodology.

Since I'm a teacher, and whatever my current obsession at the moment is the most "important groundbreaking discovery to date" I'm able to take my students on that journey. When they come into my space, they ask, "What is that contraption?" Then I can explain how it's a device to help me build some technique I'm trying to master. And in that explanation I can explain the fundamentals of what it is to learn the technique. They catch my love for learning, and they get insight into the learning process.

In the case of you developers, let me say that you shouldn't underestimate the gift you're giving to at least those of us in your sphere. A couple days ago I talked to a friend who needs to score a musical theater piece she's writing. She explained how Mac upgrades made all her scoring software documents inaccessible and obsolete. I told my wife, "You get on my case for spending so much time on computer systems, but my scores can be opened on lilypond which will run on ANY linux system." My puppies/dogs/first ribs rarely let me down.

There's a certain digital freedom you're gifting to people like me.

rockedge wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:57 am

KLV-Airedale-rc11.iso@rockedge, you may want to post this in your OP.

Booted the ISO file to same desktop as shown by @Sofiya using:

qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -vga std -m 2G -smp 2 -device AC97 -net nic -net user -rtc base=localtime -name "SLK vBeta02 via QEMU" -cdrom KLV-Airedale-rc11.iso

All systems go, so far.

Next, tested cirrus for vga parm and desktop arrives as follows:

All systems go, here also.

Opening exFAT works in this desktop.

Not sure if this is a bug, but in the filemanager when partitions are opened (aka mounted) the icon showing it mounted is NOT present. This filemanager behavior is the same for both desktops mentioned above.

@rockedge installed new rc11 and all fine from what I tested, except that the volume level is not preserved on reboots (was in earlier releases also I think).
Can be fixed by enabling the alsa service ln -s /etc/sv/alsa /var/service/ or is there a reason why it's not enabled by default ?

fredx181 wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:12 pm

@rockedge installed new rc11 and all fine from what I tested, except that the volume level is not preserved on reboots (was in earlier releases also I think).
Can be fixed by enabling the alsa service ln -s /etc/sv/alsa /var/service/ or is there a reason why it's not enabled by default ?

pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ 50% add to ~/.xinitrc

Sofiya wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 5:02 pm

fredx181 wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:12 pm

@rockedge installed new rc11 and all fine from what I tested, except that the volume level is not preserved on reboots (was in earlier releases also I think).
Can be fixed by enabling the alsa service ln -s /etc/sv/alsa /var/service/ or is there a reason why it's not enabled by default ?

pactl set-sink-volume @DEFAULT_SINK@ 50% add to ~/.xinitrc

I assume doing that it's at 50% at every boot, that's not how I'd like it, enabling the alsa service will exactly "remember" how I adjusted the volume level.

@fredx181 good catch, I totally forgot to add the link for a runit service

I have read some good reports on here so I thought I would try this. I downloaded the rc11 iso and made a manual frugal install on to an hdd partition (sda2) formatted as ext3. I wished to boot using grub4dos. I have a number of pups, dogs and a version of easy OS on this partition all booted in the same way. In trying to write a boot stanza I was confused by what I found in boot>grub menu.lst and menu_phelp.lst. Using the information in these I got an immediate boot error no matter what I tried. I then tried to boot using an adaption of the stanza I used to boot F96-CE_1 which at least got me to a point in the boot where the process stopped showing a kernel panic. I had to go right back to this post (third post down) viewtopic.php?t=5215&start=10 before I found a clue as to how to boot this OS (thank you @wiak). I now have it booting to a desktop and I believe I have persistence in that I set up the wifi and I still had a connection when I rebooted. Below is what I have in my klv directory. Before I take this any further can I ask if this looks correct? Am I right in thinking that upper changes is acting as a sort of save file. Am I alone in thinking that the section in the forum called "KLV-Airedale has now become a little confusing at least to us mere mortals.

Regards.

Ken.

@keniv Yes some organization will be needed soon.

There should be a script called wd_grubconfig that is in the ISO that when run in a terminal in the frugal directory, it will write the correct boot stanza's for Grub4Dos and Grub2. If it is missing I'll need to repackage the ISO to include it!
The frugal set up example in the screenshot looks correct. I boot from a system setup with Grub4Dos and has about 20 different KLV's and others all dual booting.

These are simple boot stanza's that should work for /mnt/home/11KLV-airedale with the UUID . (net.ifnames=0 is OPTIONAL)

First example uses partition UUID remember to replace the uuid in both places with your own from /mnt/home (i.e. /mnt/sda2)

title 11KLV-airedale (UUID)
  uuid 8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa
  kernel /11KLV-airedale/vmlinuz  w_bootfrom=UUID=8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa=/11KLV-airedale net.ifnames=0
  initrd /11KLV-airedale/initrd.gz

This is using the RAM2 mode with optional save persistence:

title 11KLV-airedale (UUID, RAM2 mode)
  uuid 8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa
  kernel /11KLV-airedale/vmlinuz  w_bootfrom=UUID=8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa=/11KLV-airedale w_changes=RAM2 net.ifnames=0
  initrd /11KLV-airedale/initrd.gz

Second example using LABEL of the partition also here replace the example LABEL:

title 11KLV-airedale (LABEL)
  uuid 8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa
  kernel /11KLV-airedale/vmlinuz  w_bootfrom=LABEL=psystem=/11KLV-airedale net.ifnames=0
  initrd /11KLV-airedale/initrd.gz

title 11KLV-airedale (/mnt/sda2)
  uuid 8a8ea99d-a1b0-4c43-b1a0-d4ce5c9c7dfa
  kernel /11KLV-airedale/vmlinuz  w_bootfrom=/mnt/sda2/11KLV-airedale
  initrd /11KLV-airedale/initrd.gz

Let us know how it works for you!

@rockedge
Thanks for your reply. Below is the boot stanza I ended up using.

title KLV-AIREDALErc11 (64bit) (sda2/11klv-airedale)
  find --set-root uuid () 60e6917a-e1db-44f9-8d58-6f0df737eeb5
  kernel /11klv-airedale/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=60e6917a-e1db-44f9-8d58-6f0df737eeb5=/11klv-airedale
  initrd /11klv-airedale/initrd.gz

It's very much like the one I use to boot F96-CE_1 and as you can see it's very like your first example but I did not know about the net.ifnames=0 so I did not include it. Can you tell me what this does.
In your second example you mention

This is using the RAM2 mode with optional save persistence:

I'm not really sure what these ram modes do and what the advantage in using them really is though I have read a bit about them on here. I think I will have to stick with the simplest setup for now but I would like to know if I can use the w_changes= to produce something akin to a save file or a save folder though I do seem to have persistence with the current setup. I have also setup the firewall but I do like to have the reassurance that it is running using the firewall status app. I have looked for this in the package manager without success. Is there such a thing for klv-airedale. I have also tried to update the package manager but this seemed to hang at about 13%. I'm sorry if these questions/comments seem trivial but I am already finding this a steep learning curve and I've hardly started.

Regards,

Ken.

@keniv You don't need to specify any of the RAM modes. Leave the entire w_changes= out. KLV will start and use the upper_changes automatically and if upper_changes does not exist it will be created and then used.

I also use a very straight forward frugal install and a simple boot stanza. It is my preferred installation method.

It should be really simple. The simplest boot stanza will do it in a frugal install. Copy the ISO contents to a sub-directory like you have done already. Then use the example without any w_changes= on the kernel parameter line.

net.ifnames=0 is a parameter that will work in Puppy Linux and KLV-Airedale. It insures that the Ethernet device and or the WiFi device are named consistently starting with eth0 and wlan0. This is for applications looking for either one of those. It is OPTIONAL

Your boot stanza looks perfect.

title KLV-AIREDALErc11 (64bit) (sda2/11klv-airedale)
  find --set-root uuid () 60e6917a-e1db-44f9-8d58-6f0df737eeb5
  kernel /11klv-airedale/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=60e6917a-e1db-44f9-8d58-6f0df737eeb5=/11klv-airedale
  initrd /11klv-airedale/initrd.gz

Question: are you behind a broadband or fiber optic modem/router? In this case they have powerful firewalls already in place.The ADSL/DSL modems/routers may or may not be so equipped and using a firewall might be a good idea. I'm not sure yet about a firewall status indicator. I'll look at what we can do to improve that.

@rockedge
Thanks for the information above. It makes things a lot clearer and I too like it to be as simple as possible. On the issue of the firewall status I've discovered that although I seem to have persistence in terms of setting up the wifi and browser I don't appear to have it as far as the firewall is concerned. It set up the firewall initially using menu>settings>firewall configuration and it was enabled. The next time I rebooted I checked using the terminal the output of which is shown below.

root# ufw status
Status: inactive

I then tried to enable the firewall via the terminal. Again the output is shown bellow.

root# ufw enable
Firewall is active and enabled on system startup

However, if I reboot and tryufw status in a terminal again I get the inactive output again. It doesn't matter whether I use menu>settings>firewall configuration or the terminal to enable the firewall after a reboot it is disabled. I wonder if anybody else has seen this?

Question: are you behind a broadband or fiber optic modem/router? In this case they have powerful firewalls already in place.

Well I do have a fiber optic connection to my garden after which through the garden and into the house it's copper up to the router but I guess this means I am behind a broadband or fiber optic modem/router.

Regards,

Ken.

keniv wrote: Tue Feb 28, 2023 4:41 pm

I have read some good reports on here so I thought I would try this. I downloaded the rc11 iso and made a manual frugal install on to an hdd partition (sda2) formatted as ext3. I wished to boot using grub4dos. I have a number of pups, dogs and a version of easy OS on this partition all booted in the same way. In trying to write a boot stanza I was confused by what I found in boot>grub menu.lst and menu_phelp.lst. Using the information in these I got an immediate boot error no matter what I tried. I then tried to boot using an adaption of the stanza I used to boot F96-CE_1 which at least got me to a point in the boot where the process stopped showing a kernel panic. I had to go right back to this post (third post down) viewtopic.php?t=5215&start=10 before I found a clue as to how to boot this OS (thank you @wiak). I now have it booting to a desktop and I believe I have persistence in that I set up the wifi and I still had a connection when I rebooted. Below is what I have in my klv directory. Before I take this any further can I ask if this looks correct? Am I right in thinking that upper changes is acting as a sort of save file. Am I alone in thinking that the section in the forum called "KLV-Airedale has now become a little confusing at least to us mere mortals.

Regards.

Ken.

Your frugal install image looks correct. Yes, upper_changes is the save persistence folder.

The sort of menu.lst stanza (with your own UUID and install dir name) should look something like this (doesn't use Puppy initrd so totally different to how you would boot Puppy Linux):

title KLV
  find --set-root uuid () 424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8
  kernel /KLV/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=UUID=424d8f42-e835-4111-9053-dd086b3d38e8=/KLV w_changes=RAM2
  initrd /KLV/initrd.gz

Alternatively if you are using some LABEL on the partition your frugal install directory is, the following format could be used instead:

title KLV
  find --set-root --ignore-floppies /KLV/grub_config.txt
  kernel /KLV/vmlinuz w_bootfrom=LABEL=frugals=/KLV w_changes=RAM2
  initrd /KLV/initrd.gz

Whether the thread is confusing or not, I can't say, but advise you to look at the various FirstRib related posts here: https://tinylinux.info
These cover topics about booting and save file modes.

keniv wrote:

On the issue of the firewall status I've discovered that although I seem to have persistence in terms of setting up the wifi and browser I don't appear to have it as far as the firewall is concerned. It set up the firewall initially using menu>settings>firewall configuration and it was enabled. The next time I rebooted I checked using the terminal the output of which is shown below.

Hi Ken, yes ufw enable is only working in the current session, to survive a reboot, the ufw service must be activated, so:
In terminal;
ln -s /etc/sv/ufw /var/service/ and (if not already done) ufw enable and after reboot it should stay enabled (as the service is activated).
Also then in Menu > Settings > Firewall Configuration it can be disabled/enabled, it will survive a reboot too.

@rockedge Idea for next release: I think it's safe to have the ufw service activated by default, still the user has to enable it (e.g. in Firewall Configuration).

@wiak

Your frugal install image looks correct. Yes, upper_changes is the save persistence folder.

Thank for confirming this. It certainly seems to be working as far as booting is concerned. You can't do anything if you can't get it to boot.

doesn't use Puppy initrd so totally different to how you would boot Puppy Linux):

Yeah, it's all a bit of a steep learning curve for me at the moment.

Whether the thread is confusing or not, I can't say, but advise you to look at the various FirstRib related posts here: https://tinylinux.info
These cover topics about booting and save file modes.

Thanks for the link. I'll have a look at it. Hopefully it will make things clearer.

Regards,

Ken.

@fredx181

Hi Ken, yes ufw enable is only working in the current session, to survive a reboot, the ufw service must be activated, so:
In terminal;
ln -s /etc/sv/ufw /var/service/ and (if not already done) ufw enable and after reboot it should stay enabled (as the service is activated).
Also then in Menu > Settings > Firewall Configuration it can be disabled/enabled, it will survive a reboot too.

Hi Fred, thanks for that. I've just used ln -s /etc/sv/ufw /var/service/ in a terminal, made sure that the firewall was enabled, then shutdown and rebooted. After booting up I checked the firewall status and this time it remained enabled and so looks like all is good. I still think a firewall status indicator would give users like me a bit off comfort bit it's not essential I suppose. I see @rockedge has made an rc12 version available so I might move on to that. Thanks again for the help.

Ken.

keniv wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:59 am

@wiak

Your frugal install image looks correct. Yes, upper_changes is the save persistence folder.

Thank for confirming this. It certainly seems to be working as far as booting is concerned.
...
Thanks for the link. I'll have a look at it. Hopefully it will make things clearer.

Regards,

Ken.

Glad it is booting and save persistence to upper_changes savefolder clearly working. That's really the main hurdle , so you've already jumped that. The other KL distros, KLA,, based on Arch Linux, and KLU, based on Ubuntu Jammy boot the same.

Next matter you need to become familiar with, really, is how to install new packages, which is easy with KLV since there is a gui package manager. Void xbps commandline pkg manager well documented on Void Linux site too though.

The tiny Linux.info blog pages on uuid and label grub boot hopefully helpful. The other one I'd consult is the one about RAM save persistence modes.

Sorry, I'm typing on Android phone so hard to enter exact links.

@wiak

Next matter you need to become familiar with, really, is how to install new packages, which is easy with KLV since there is a gui package manager.

I did try searching for packages and that seemed to go OK but when I tried updating the package manager it seemed to take a long time then hung at about 13%. I chose to close it and got a warning that if I did this I might brake the system so I may have broken it. Can I ask if it does take a very long time to update the package manager? I've now installed the rc12 version and based on what I learned from booting rc11 it's up and running to the same extent. I've kept rc11 so I might mess around with the package manager on it for a while and see how I get on.

Regards,

Ken.

keniv wrote: Wed Mar 01, 2023 4:36 pm

@wiak

Next matter you need to become familiar with, really, is how to install new packages, which is easy with KLV since there is a gui package manager.

I did try searching for packages and that seemed to go OK but when I tried updating the package manager it seemed to take a long time then hung at about 13%. I chose to close it and got a warning that if I did this I might brake the system so I may have broken it. Can I ask if it does take a very long time to update the package manager? I've now installed the rc12 version and based on what I learned from booting rc11 it's up and running to the same extent. I've kept rc11 so I might mess around with the package manager on it for a while and see how I get on.

Regards,

Ken.

I never use a GUI package manager so I'll have to leave @rockedge or one of the other KLV-Airedale users to answer that one.

Instead, I always simply use xbps package manager at the commandline, which works perfectly for me - though I do often have to visit the Void Linux docs on xbps commands since I forget them soon after use (particularly because I am constantly jumping between different distro types such as apt/dpkg-based Ubuntu variants or Arch pacman KLA alternatives):

https://docs.voidlinux.org/xbps/index.html

https://linuxiac.com/void-linux-xbps-package-manager/

If xbps proves confusing, aside from using a GUI package manager you can alternatively install the vpm "xbps helper" frontend. Peebee uses that in VoidPup:
https://github.com/netzverweigerer/vpm

Sorry also that I can't explain how to install vpm since I've never bothered installing it myself, but looks probably pretty easy to do and I'm sure someone could help if you wanted it.

Is tldr built-in the running KL system? If so does this offer helpful examples? The beauty of it is its reasonably small, yet command-line helpful examples for many Linux subsystems and commands.

Clarity wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 6:46 am

Is tldr built-in the running KL system? If so does this offer helpful examples? The beauty of it is its reasonably small, yet command-line helpful examples for many Linux subsystems and commands.

It isn't currently in KLA or KLU at least. But I've checked download size isn't much in KLA-XFCEbase just now so will likely include it in next release. Yes, it is a bit easier that wading through man pages for quick command usage ideas.

The cherrytree notebook I provide is intended to encourage users to expand or build their own notebook database for information they want to keep readily available (whether on or offline). As I've said often, that mechanism is how I keep my own developments rolling forward without too much forgetting that otherwise happens and seriously impedes progress.

wiak wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:26 am

I never use a GUI package manager so I'll have to leave @rockedge or one of the other KLV-Airedale users to answer that one.

Instead, I always simply use xbps package manager at the commandline, which works perfectly for me - though I do often have to visit the Void Linux docs on xbps commands since I forget them soon after use (particularly because I am constantly jumping between different distro types such as apt/dpkg-based Ubuntu variants or Arch pacman KLA alternatives):

https://docs.voidlinux.org/xbps/index.html

https://linuxiac.com/void-linux-xbps-package-manager/

Thanks for the links and the youtube video which I have viewed and downloaded. I am having trouble using the package manager. I have use the GUI version. As I'm now using the rc12 version I have posted a tale of wows on that thread a link to which is attached.
viewtopic.php?p=83446#p83446
It's the fourth post down.

Regards,

Ken.